- Mar 28, 2018
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I just discovered this game, the story is engrossing, like you should actually be writing a book. I would buy that book, the mythos the well thought out characters. It is just amazing.
- Thread starter WeirdWorld
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- Feb 22, 2019
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Devlog 74 (Poll Results)
Hey, poll results are in.
Results are:
Exhibitionism - 83
Futa - 44
BDSM - 30
Breast Expansion - 14
Furry - 35
Amputee - 31
Exhibitionism wins, congratulations. Didn't expect it honestly, though for sure it'd be futa or furry, but I won't complain. So yeah, look forward to that scene next update, I'll see you next week.
Hey, poll results are in.
Results are:
Exhibitionism - 83
Futa - 44
BDSM - 30
Breast Expansion - 14
Furry - 35
Amputee - 31
Exhibitionism wins, congratulations. Didn't expect it honestly, though for sure it'd be futa or furry, but I won't complain. So yeah, look forward to that scene next update, I'll see you next week.
- Jul 13, 2021
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How I'm "kinda wrong" when you can only respond with theories?
1. What is this about MC's 100% pure lineage? I don't get it. Do you mean Ella?
3. That's way too convoluted for me. We know that consumption increases power, we know that superhumans evolve when consuming monster material compatible with their power. Ella ate the students to gain power so she could succeed and not monsterfy, and used the Memory's monster material to evolve because she is compatible with it.
4. Or like she says, she just tinkered her eyes to see better, like Tanos' eye and these SIN visors do who are made "curtesy of Tanos' dear Ella".
6. Yes, by probably having the same genetic potential as MC, 50-50.
Who's that? I don't remember.
This can't be the ultimate issue. Memory calls her a failure, Ella thinks herself a failure as a level 4, and she calls herself a failure again when she evolves to level 5. The assumption that Ella failed to manifest Memory powers goes back to deadend3. This update didn't change that assumption but it gave us huge context with the 50-50 thing.
How much context one needs to start thinking that there is something odd about the earlier assumptions?
Ella is chosen by the the Apostles who look for a 50-50 Superhuman and the mastermind is assumed to be Memory.
We learn that MC is 50-50 and we know that Ella, who is praised for her ability to see compatibility, thinks she and him are the same.
Ella says "Hate to disappoint you, but memory has never been my strong suit, I'm not sure how much I'll be able to help."
That's like Michael saying that "Authority was never my strong suit", or Alice saying "Time was never my strong suit". Do these things make any sense? No, because these individuals have never manifested any ability of the sort. Why suddenly Ella makes sense when she says that? She doesn't just say "hey, I can't really help you with memory since I don't know anything about it". She says that "I can't help you because I'm not good at it".
Now, I'm not a master of lore, I'm putting the pieces together now that I'm done playing and I haven't seen some important things from what I understand (ending3, ending37, talk with Valravn). Ella is a spawn of Body, no question about that (several characters say so), but at the same time she has more than something of Memory in her, that's for sure (the vials, her comment about not knowing how to use memories very much, and the fact that she was trying to awaken the abilities related to memories during the massacre).
Since we know that she has been one of Tanos' subjects and that the latter is working on understanding the apostles' twin bonds, she was likely infected by Body, but as with the MC the infection was also attended by Memory (the two apostles stood there for 1 minute, probably doing things to the MC) and in this way she acquired both traits (being compatible with both of them), but failed to develop Memory's (becoming practically full-body or nearly so). Also, we know that if MC reveals in his first evolution that he's capable of using Memory powers, she kills him, possibly to consume him and become what she should have been (my theory). This leads me to believe she was intended as a 50\50, containing both the twin apostles' powers, becoming the personification of Evolution. Tanos now is probably moving to using human twins links to obtain similar results (being the two linked twins almost a single superhuman entity, with shared power and evolution and all that), since only the 3rd and the 4th are ok with creating a hybrid otherwise.
Having said that and in response to another post: now that I understand what a "chosen" is (finally), I don't think there are only 6. From the conversation with the dog monster, it turns out that those in the image are only the chosen ones known to it, not all of them. Besides, they don't have anything in common with arbiters, if my understanding is correct.
Also, I have another doubt.
As I had understood from the conversation with Aglaecwif, there are six pairs of twins among the apostles (each pair derivation of the original power of an arbiter, or at least I assume so). Tanos, however, states that there are two pairs of "twins", 6 per pair (1-6, 7-12). Other things hint at such a bipartition among the apostles in play. For example, there is a scene (I don't remember now triggered by what, but it was in the early parts of the game) in which MC sees the image of the Moon and hears its call and it is the first time this partition is hinted at. This led me to think there are two factions of apostles, but instead, in the theories I'm reading here, this doesn't seem to be considered. How come?
The 3th and 4th are liked to each other more then the other apostles, both can use each others power but not a the same length. At the start of the game when we choose body, we see him trying to get in or head but he struggles, so he needs to come closer and use his tentacles. If we choose memory she does it at a distance then she changes our "TOOL" and have a little fun.
- Jul 13, 2021
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I don't think anyone refutes that Ella is the spawn of the Third. This is confirmed. This whole discussion is about applying the same rules to Ella as we do for MC since the latest update gave us a reason to. I too used to think that Ella is full of shit and MC is beyond her comprehension. Now that we know MC isn't 100% compatible with both traits but only 50%, it changes a lot of things.
Monsters of the 7th, 9th and 10th are associated with Lord of Dark who wants to eat the Apostles but Eisheth is of the 9th and quite proud of it.
Power seems friendly towards MC while the relationship between Authority and Body & Memory seems a bit strained.
The scene you are looking for is MC's second evolution. The thing is that it doesn't really gives us any serious context. All it says is that the latter 6 Apostles are dead. We get some confirmation from Xanthe that this is the case, from the Library, Tiffany's infection and during Michael's and Tiffany's evolution, but then we learn that Claudia is to artificially become a spawn of Time, which may mean that he is dead too. We assume that by "dead" it means that their avatars are dead, not the Apostles themselves.
Then there's the whole alt-human memories who point to the invasion from moon and sea, but Apostles don't look like an invasion force. There's the SIN satelites pointing missiles to the moon but SIN are friends with the Apostles' Chosen.
The allied Chosen themselves seem to be of 2nd, 6th, 9th and 12th.
Because the relationships are a bit over the place.
Monsters of the 7th, 9th and 10th are associated with Lord of Dark who wants to eat the Apostles but Eisheth is of the 9th and quite proud of it.
Power seems friendly towards MC while the relationship between Authority and Body & Memory seems a bit strained.
The scene you are looking for is MC's second evolution. The thing is that it doesn't really gives us any serious context. All it says is that the latter 6 Apostles are dead. We get some confirmation from Xanthe that this is the case, from the Library, Tiffany's infection and during Michael's and Tiffany's evolution, but then we learn that Claudia is to artificially become a spawn of Time, which may mean that he is dead too. We assume that by "dead" it means that their avatars are dead, not the Apostles themselves.
Then there's the whole alt-human memories who point to the invasion from moon and sea, but Apostles don't look like an invasion force. There's the SIN satelites pointing missiles to the moon but SIN are friends with the Apostles' Chosen.
The allied Chosen themselves seem to be of 2nd, 6th, 9th and 12th.
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1. Ella and MC both are pure spawn of an Apostle. MC can use both traits regardless. Ella aside from transforming can know object's composition, function and ways to manipulate just by looking at it.
3. MC gains power not from eating brain matter, but from claiming and consuming memories contained within. Ella tried to deepen/complete her Memory by eating a bunch of people she'd spent several years with while Memory tried to contact her via material from the vial. Different powers grow from different things. Michael f.e. grows internal power by consuming and storing energy.
4. Tanos's eye, SIN visors and Ella's eyes do just one thing - measure energy. Also Ella displayed an ability to separate her body parts without losing control and change shape of different things remotely during her fight with Nico. It would be a bit of a stretch, but I'd say that she can use shapeshifting for inanimate objects without physical contact.
6. Perfect natural 50:50 split is even rarer than high compatibility with any single Apostle as claimed by Syla. Ella probably had very high Body and minor Memory aptitude.
Nyx has both the energy sapping of Dark and memoryscape as displayed by MC from 1st evo. Her Memory is triggered only by death, and Dark can manifest "illusions/imitations" only in conjunction with memories of the dead.
- Jul 13, 2021
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1. How would anyone be a spawn of more than one Apostle anyway? The premise is about what Syla said in relation to purity and compatibility. Why do you make this counterargument in the first place?
3. MC and Ella gain power by consuming meat. This happens both in train48 where MC follows Ella's advice and during the Michael's dream. If Ella has no Memory powers, why would it matter if she consumes the brains of people she knew? According to Syla, getting random junk memories is bad practice anyway. That's why she urges MC to connect to Apostles instead and insinuates that quality memories may be able to make up for a weaker trait.
4. They also include x-ray vision, measure age and Tanos' eye measures compatibility. She says so during the Twin infection scene. Ella is known to be able to transmute things at range, she also has that red aura which allows her to do the same.
6. Indeed it's rare, but still Ella claims that MC is like her. MC is 50-50. What is the common point that she can observe with her special eyes?
Nyx has the trait of a particular monster. She doesn't have both Dark and Memory, she has the mixed trait, just like Kenny doesn't have Authority and Body but Minyak, Met doesn't have Power and Space but Leigong etc.
All that we know about Nyx is that she is a "unique adaptation" and much more powerful, but Met is also much more powerful than the Leigong and the adaptation can be anything, after all Met doesn't use crystals to shoot lightning.
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1. I'm saying that lineage and inheritance are not 100% connected.
3. Ella has partial Memory trait. She just refused to do the necessary for her part of awakening it by ripping out her heart with the remaining humanity and killed the rest of her body, as it went out of control and tried to eat Christie - someone she shares a whole lot of memories. Eating meat doesn't give them power, but allows to use molecular hammerspace to use real materials instead of materialising new, conserving power. Also it's possible for corruption itself giving a tiny bit of power from better connection between original and monster part of a superhuman. Junk memories are bad not because they're detrimental per se, but they ruin overall coherence and waste space.
4. Honestly I forgot the X-ray part. Nonetheless even if a physical device can be made from materials of different species, same cannot be said about Ella. Still makes sense for her to have visual connection to material Memory.
6. Common point for both is their status as chosen and direct spawn for a twin pair.
Nyx clearly has two distinct traits. Incomplete but synergistic.
Leigong is about 1/3 8th. Met is able to use magnetism of lightning, energy control of Power and space fuckery of Ether to apply force on objects charged by him in any direction, not just along magnetic lines. Example of monster lineage being transformed in a spawn.
Huh! By day 20 I was still super-confused. I didn't even realise that the fourth apostle and the third were distinct entities. But that's the beauty of the game, putting the little pieces together and building up everything there is to understand. Anyway, watch out for spoilers in here. Some things are nice to experience without knowing about them first.Regarding to the discussion above I recognized there is a lot to discover and learn in front of me
I´m staying at Day 20
For sexoffended,
You are basically saying the same thing to Gtdead, only in two different nuances. We are saying that in Ella's Memory's powers (not awakened) there is the hand of the fourth apostle, on the other hand, you say that she awakened them more independently (failing to do so). But remember, though, that genetic compatibility does not give access to power; it is one's monster parent that grants the powers, which then take hold based on the genetic code of the infected (thus based on spawn compatibility with them) and the spawn mindset. If there is no compatibility between the genetic code and the origin of the monster's powers, I guess you just die. Low compatibility, on the other hand, generates a weak superhuman.
From what I understand you are saying that the third and fourth partially share each other's powers (as a minor trait) and that therefore the third's infection of Ella and her compatibility with Memory led to the possibility of having access to Memory's powers, only that she failed the process to awaken them (and since third and fourth are related to Evolution, it fits as a hypothesis).
Instead, we are more inclined, for one reason or another, to consider that Ella is an experiment by Memory to create a 50\50 spawn (precisely because Ella had a similar body to MC, as she stated), even though Ella's monster father is Body, which is plausible to be true because MC can be the spawn of Body and still be a balanced 50\50 spawn.
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- Jul 13, 2021
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So, let's think of some applications of Memory powers. Syla promised to teach MC some cool stuff. What that may be?
1. Lethe:
The target forgets specific memories or loses context of them, rendering them useless.
2. Memory Drain:
The caster restores energy by draining the positive emotions from the target's memories. The target feels miserable when thinking of them.
3. Memory Link - Premonition:
a. The caster can choose to link the memories of the friendly targets into a common pool, allowing for instant sharing of knowledge and communication at any distance. A localized version of Protoss khala.
b. The caster can choose to link the enemy's memories to his own, gaining direct feedback and knowledge of the immediate next actions.
4. Recurring Nightmare:
The caster forces the target to experience a nightmare on a feedback loop, that will cause increasing amounts of agony/trauma. The nightmare can be planted and magically amplified, it doesn't have to be a true memory. It will be similar to Command: Pain, but with a bit of variety on the actual effect.
5. Memory Projection:
The caster can implant his own memories to a target for various purposes like communication, sharing of knowledge or deception.
6. Memory Form:
The caster can control what memories others create or retain when interacting with him and after. For example he can force the target to immediately forget the caster after losing him from sight like "The Silence" in Doctor Who. Or remember MC as a demon, a child, an innocent bystander etc,
Edit: Some more examples to avoid confusion.
1. Lethe:
The target forgets specific memories or loses context of them, rendering them useless.
2. Memory Drain:
The caster restores energy by draining the positive emotions from the target's memories. The target feels miserable when thinking of them.
3. Memory Link - Premonition:
a. The caster can choose to link the memories of the friendly targets into a common pool, allowing for instant sharing of knowledge and communication at any distance. A localized version of Protoss khala.
b. The caster can choose to link the enemy's memories to his own, gaining direct feedback and knowledge of the immediate next actions.
4. Recurring Nightmare:
The caster forces the target to experience a nightmare on a feedback loop, that will cause increasing amounts of agony/trauma. The nightmare can be planted and magically amplified, it doesn't have to be a true memory. It will be similar to Command: Pain, but with a bit of variety on the actual effect.
5. Memory Projection:
The caster can implant his own memories to a target for various purposes like communication, sharing of knowledge or deception.
6. Memory Form:
The caster can control what memories others create or retain when interacting with him and after. For example he can force the target to immediately forget the caster after losing him from sight like "The Silence" in Doctor Who. Or remember MC as a demon, a child, an innocent bystander etc,
Edit: Some more examples to avoid confusion.
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What follows the "rule of cool" that WW would be able to convey/draw and still fit with overall lore
.I wonder how much his fighting will change because memory is on the opposite end of "fighting styles". One is "oooga boooga zombieboi smash" and the other would presumably be more esoteric. That also makes me think about how WW will show the powers during a fight scene which could greatly impact what MC uses in battle.
For example: what would the player see if MC used "nightmare" just a line of text describing it? Or would we get a full look into it? And how would that effect the flow of the fight etc
Keeping in mind how WW likes to display what is happening, especially if it is strange, supernatural, or disturbing, for me with nightmares he would show the actual scenes. Honestly, though, Memory's powers seem much less focused on combat, at least in a direct way.What follows the "rule of cool" that WW would be able to convey/draw and still fit with overall lore
I wonder how much his fighting will change because memory is on the opposite end of "fighting styles". One is "oooga boooga zombieboi smash" and the other would presumably be more esoteric. That also makes me think about how WW will show the powers during a fight scene which could greatly impact what MC uses in battle.
For example: what would the player see if MC used "nightmare" just a line of text describing it? Or would we get a full look into it? And how would that effect the flow of the fight etc
What gets me hyped is the fact that MC might become able to use the powers of the other apostles due to Memory powers (the idea was thrown there with Xanthe; he of course called it impractical, but eh, MC is a special boy and this connection to the other apostles and the fact that he is practically the quintessential aspect of Evolution bodes well).
I agree on both points especially that memory will be less useful in direct combat, I posted previously and am a fan of the idea that MC will be able to combine/mix/use powers that haven't/shouldn't be used in combination.
AFAIK just from memoryscape connection alone MC can communicate with his allies, dead or alive, and spy on his enemies given he made strong enough impression. Flashbacks and illusions are a good possibility. Anything like memory blocks will probably be heavily limited if not in speed then definitely in power, as we gradually start to enter territory of the 1st.
1. It'll be like making someone forget how to breathe. Direct attacks will be resisted by target's power.
2. It's pretty weak in intensity and yet would require a lot of constant effort. Not all that exciting, but very realistic. Energy recharge won't happen (it's Memory, not Emotion), but power increase is highly likely. Also stealing someone's happy memories and leaving bad ones not only will empower MC, but also motivate him while demotivating the enemy.
3. To support connection like that will be extremely disorienting for everyone involved. I don't see that being used any time soon or with anyone besides a tiny number of allies.
4. That's literally Memory Echo. Only difference is that now MC can use connections. Same effect and effort as Memory Drain. Probably will be a component of same technique.
5. Baseline Memory abilities. Just show up to them and bam - new memory about your visit is made.
6. Definitely won't happen. That's something Authority does. For MC to instantly connect to someone and just as easily suppress or steal whole bunch of memories likely won't be possible till at least next evolution.
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Truth be told, Memory Echo as an attack was "shown" only against Deryl. Past that we just assume what it does but we aren't shown. Against Claire he describes how it interacts with the corruption but not much else. I expect the mental attacks to be given similar attention, just a mention of what memory MC uses/deletes/manipulates for maximum impact. We also have the Jake and Shen precedents. Sometimes WW shows the effects, other times they are implied. Shen's illusions for example start getting wild towards the end of the fight, while Command: Pain was reduced the a "ghgahahghaaahg" from MC and we could never judge the actual damage done.What follows the "rule of cool" that WW would be able to convey/draw and still fit with overall lore
I wonder how much his fighting will change because memory is on the opposite end of "fighting styles". One is "oooga boooga zombieboi smash" and the other would presumably be more esoteric. That also makes me think about how WW will show the powers during a fight scene which could greatly impact what MC uses in battle.
For example: what would the player see if MC used "nightmare" just a line of text describing it? Or would we get a full look into it? And how would that effect the flow of the fight etc
I'm certain that MC won't favor direct memory attacks anyway. He will only use them against someone like Evander who is exceptionally strong against Physical attacks.
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- Jul 13, 2021
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During the last update WW removed a lot of text that made it seem like Authority can affect Memories. He completely changed how people understand Jake's weight loss, he made it seem like Laurie remembers but can't think about her time with Troy against Ella. I also think that he added dialogue to Ella making a remark how Authrority isn't meant to be used for Memory manipulation.
So everything Jake did to affect other's "perception" of him was crossing into Memory's territory. He literally removed every mention of the word memory in Jake's abilities and the timing of the "retcon" coincides very well with MC learning new memory stuff. I have a post in the offtopic listing all the changes in dialogue.
edit: What are the differences anyway?
For me the difference is fairly clear. Authority works on Behavior, Memory works on Perception.
Under Authority, If A kills B, he will know what he did, but couldn't do otherwise and may not question the reasons why he did it, thinking he was in the right.
Under Memory, If A kills B, he won't exactly know what he did, either because he forgot about it or because he remembered the scene/victim differently.
The difference with Illusion is that
Under Memory, if A kills B, only A will think that something seemed wrong about B.
Under Illusion, if A kills B, everyone will agree that something seemed wrong with B.
Edit: Found it
https://f95zone.to/threads/superhuman-off-topic-discussion.174695/post-12816370
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A little change of focus. It's a thing a thought about a lot during the game. In your opinion how much of a difference will sparing or absorping Jake will do? With the last development of MC Memory powers and is inner world, it could be a big change in power, but I'm not that sure.
Given the "meta" of a visual novel the change won't be that big until near the end. This update was the first time that it's really "come into play" and him being alive/dead doesn't create very different scenarios.