VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.999] [WeirdWorld]

[Gtdead]

I think if one monsterfies when they try to evolve, they only end up with the powers that they had from the level they were at. MC doesn't use any of the mental powers that we see him use after his successful evolution between dead ends 36 and 37. More than that, if he did have the new mental powers, he wouldn't have had to eat parts of Goliath's brain, as Memory Echo allows him to see the memories of those he uses it against. Considering that our level 5 self was pretty concerned with becoming one with whomever they were looking for, it's reasonable - still stupid, but reasonable - that we just wanted to get Alexis out of the way as quickly as possible, and didn't consider checking how her powers work as we didn't need to kill her, just buy time.

This is a good theory and ticks a lot of boxes, but I have a few reasons to believe that this isn't the case.

First things first, while I have some strong opinions about this deadend and I like to call the Eye dumb, I think that the dev introduced it more for lore exposition or even the "cool factor" and less to showcase what the MC would look like at level 5. In fact I think that level 5 MC will be way stronger. With that out of the way, these are my arguments:

1) While I'm not sure if it's a monsterification, the MC loses himself in the first deadend of the game, if he fights the cafe thugs without training. He unlocks two powers, the corpse consumption and his tail (a level 2 power). He is also controlled by his tail. While he still can reason, his tail is killing people left and right. This isn't very unlike to what happened to Deryl, athough it expressed itself differently and there was an evolution involved.

2) The Memory is capable of reading memories without touch or some other link, something that MC eventually managed to approximate at level 3 with Memory Echo. Xanthe says that past level 2, the superhuman can surpass the monster parent depending on how powerful it is. This may mean overall power, but it could also mean that they can improve on the abilities inherited.

3) I don't think that this is a normal monsterification. When Superhumans monsterify, they don't become their monster parents. They just change and lose a lot of their capacity for reason, at least the way we understand it as humans. This case is more like a possession. The being that flies around throwing pillars of tentacles, killing and consuming monsters etc, is the Eye, not the MC.

And my theory is this:

Monsterified superhumans can use whatever abilities their monster parent gave them assuming that they have enough power to use them. Through their evolutions, superhumans can surpass the monster parents and unlock new abilities, which are tied to their unique genetics and upbringing.

The Eye being the parent of both Body and Memory is fully capable of using the range of abilities that it's children can use. One reason it doesn't has to do with it's confusion due to the circumstances that brought it into existence and general irritation due to the environment which doesn't allow it to think clearly and continues to use whatever is familiar to the body it controls.

The other reason has to do with the dev not trying to be super consistent in the dead ends.

 

[Shadowdragon]

This is a good theory and ticks a lot of boxes, but I have a few reasons to believe that this isn't the case.

First things first, while I have some strong opinions about this deadend and I like to call the Eye dumb, I think that the dev introduced it more for lore exposition or even the "cool factor" and less to showcase what the MC would look like at level 5. In fact I think that level 5 MC will be way stronger. With that out of the way, these are my arguments:

1) While I'm not sure if it's a monsterification, the MC loses himself in the first deadend of the game, if he fights the cafe thugs without training. He unlocks two powers, the corpse consumption and his tail (a level 2 power). He is also controlled by his tail. While he still can reason, his tail is killing people left and right. This isn't very unlike to what happened to Deryl, athough it expressed itself differently and there was an evolution involved.

2) The Memory is capable of reading memories without touch or some other link, something that MC eventually managed to approximate at level 3 with Memory Echo. Xanthe says that past level 2, the superhuman can surpass the monster parent depending on how powerful it is. This may mean overall power, but it could also mean that they can improve on the abilities inherited.

3) I don't think that this is a normal monsterification. When Superhumans monsterify, they don't become their monster parents. They just change and lose a lot of their capacity for reason, at least the way we understand it as humans. This case is more like a possession. The being that flies around throwing pillars of tentacles, killing and consuming monsters etc, is the Eye, not the MC.

And my theory is this:

Monsterified superhumans can use whatever abilities their monster parent gave them assuming that they have enough power to use them. Through their evolutions, superhumans can surpass the monster parents and unlock new abilities, which are tied to their unique genetics and upbringing.

The Eye being the parent of both Body and Memory is fully capable of using the range of abilities that it's children can use. One reason it doesn't has to do with it's confusion due to the circumstances that brought it into existence and general irritation due to the environment which doesn't allow it to think clearly and continues to use whatever is familiar to the body it controls.

The other reason has to do with the dev not trying to be super consistent in the dead ends.

I definitely agree that level 5 MC will be much stronger than we are in this dead end, we can still gain new powers from our level 4 evolution after all. However, to your first point, corpse consumption and the tail could be argued as not being new powers. Corpse consumption would just be a more whole usage of our brain eating power we can use when we win the fight, and the tail only came out at our level 2 evolution because we noticed how our power has two focal points, the brain and the tailbone during the evolution trance. We may well have been able to construct the tail in our first evolution if we had noticed earlier, though at a very large consumption of power at that stage. To the second point, my understanding of that one is that it means in terms of pure power, not in abilities. To clarify, not everyone will have the full range of power that their monster has, and those powers may be different, like Oscars Red, Amber, and Green lights, but depending on the level of monster, the sooner that one will obtain power that can exceed their monster parent. Most but not all will likely exceed their monster parent's power by level 3, but those like MC, Alice, or any other Apostles close descendent will likely not be anywhere near close to that level of power. I do agree that this is an abnormal monsterfication, (if it even is one, as it's mentioned in the dead end that your body is on it's fifth evolution) as the MC is swallowed by his Origin and not just a monster version of himself.

My counter to your theory is this:

Monsterfied superhumans are capable of using whatever powers they had before they lost their sanity and became monsters. Their monster parent gives them a base to work with, and they branch off in new ways based on their unique genetic and psychological build, but never straying outside of what their foundation is. In other words, a superhuman with a monster parent that controls heat can control cold, but cannot control water like it does heat. This is because cold is just a lack of heat, whereas controlling water would require a completely different type of power.

The Eye is capable of connecting you directly to the Higher Plane, allowing you to forcefully obtain your level 5 evolution due to being in an evolutionary state, however, you are no longer the psyche in control, it is The Eye. The Eye is desperate to reunite with the other being, as if it does not do that soon, it shall become unstable and lose it's ability to stay in our world. As such it uses it's powers in the most efficient way possible in order to quickly obtain the other being it needs to stay as a being capable of directly interfering with the world.

I do think your interpretation is an interesting one though.

 

[Robotai]

Given how powerful the level 5's are, it almost seems hard to believe that there could be monsters strong enough to truly challenge them.
Even the eye in that dead end was scared of Malik.
Not to mention Deus's power, even at level 4.
I hope there are limits to his powers. If he can just go back in time and smother a baby in its crib to prevent a present day troublemaker there really is no greater power.

 

[Shadowdragon]

Given how powerful the level 5's are, it almost seems hard to believe that there could be monsters strong enough to truly challenge them.
Even the eye in that dead end was scared of Malik.
Not to mention Deus's power, even at level 4.
I hope there are limits to his powers. If he can just go back in time and smother a baby in its crib to prevent a present day troublemaker there really is no greater power.

I think the eye was scared of Malik because of two reasons. The first is that Malik has had his powers for decades, where we have only had them for a couple months. The second is that even with our connection to the higher plane, Malik's power is very effective at destroying our body down to each individual cell, leaving us with nothing to regenerate from.
I don't think that Deus would do that unless there was no other choice, as it would likely cause a serious change in the flow of time as all of our interactions with others for better or worse would have never happened. I think Order or any other Origin power has a way to deal with Deus' time travel powers though.

 

[estrada777]

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[Gtdead]

My counter to your theory is this:

Monsterfied superhumans are capable of using whatever powers they had before they lost their sanity and became monsters. Their monster parent gives them a base to work with, and they branch off in new ways based on their unique genetic and psychological build, but never straying outside of what their foundation is. In other words, a superhuman with a monster parent that controls heat can control cold, but cannot control water like it does heat. This is because cold is just a lack of heat, whereas controlling water would require a completely different type of power.

We agree on how the monster parent provides the base/framework for the powers. I'm convinced than superhumans are capable of developing abilities that the monsters cannot grasp, but certainly these powers will remain within the genetic framework provided by the monster parent.

Examples could be:
The MC finding a way to reclaim his cut-off parts instead of regenerating them from scratch.
Ella's ability to choose not to let her form change no matter the damage or that aura she developed after she unlocked her 5th evolution, shown in Laurie's flashback.
Deryl's ability to place his heads into chimeras (although he was monsterified at the time).
Michael using the energy he absorbs to turn his punches into energy shotguns.
Angelina's milk production.

Of course I don't have proof that this is the case or anything, nor I think that these particular examples best showcase the difference between monster and superhuman. It's just how I envision the superhuman development. New abilities, but still within the framework provided by the monster parent.

The Eye is capable of connecting you directly to the Higher Plane, allowing you to forcefully obtain your level 5 evolution due to being in an evolutionary state, however, you are no longer the psyche in control, it is The Eye. The Eye is desperate to reunite with the other being, as if it does not do that soon, it shall become unstable and lose it's ability to stay in our world. As such it uses it's powers in the most efficient way possible in order to quickly obtain the other being it needs to stay as a being capable of directly interfering with the world.

We mostly agree on our interpretation of the Eye's behavior. I wasn't ready to commit to the reason for his drive to find it's counterpart so I called it "circumstances". Our disagreement seems to be if the Eye is capable of using more powers or if it chooses not to / can't due to his mindfog. I too find that your points make a lot of sense.

Hopefully we will get more insights about monsterification in the future.

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

Given how powerful the level 5's are, it almost seems hard to believe that there could be monsters strong enough to truly challenge them.
Even the eye in that dead end was scared of Malik.
Not to mention Deus's power, even at level 4.
I hope there are limits to his powers. If he can just go back in time and smother a baby in its crib to prevent a present day troublemaker there really is no greater power.

I mean, who's to say that S Classes are the strongest monsters coming through the rift?

I get that Malik is like top of the line, so much so that he clapped Goliath in seconds. But imagine Deus trying the same thing, I don't think it would work (I could totally be wrong though), it would probably take him far more time. Malik just happens to be old, has a power that does good AOE and Singular DPS, while I'm sure Bernhardt (arguably hinted at being stronger than him) is the opposite, good Singular Burst and less so AOE. But I believe they are both special cases, as even Alexis, a Level 5; had a rough time with Goliath (albeit only slowed her down) and was easily shot put into oblivion by our possessed MC.

Back to my main point you're right, none of the Monsters we've seen so far OTHER THAN the Apostles have come close to even being considered to be able to clap rather than just slow down a Level 5. If I'm not mistaken I'm pretty sure the Monster that Tiffany got her powers from was from an Apostle, as it was the strongest corpse Xanthe had ever come across, more so it was beyond S Classification. I'm assuming that very Apostle also was the one that annihilated Zack and his entire team to the point where they are STILL injured to this day, but it should be noted that Zack was regarded as not even the strongest, this is still the only legitimate case of a Level 5 being injured (not just slowed down) by a Monster.

To expand on this, what if that corpse wasn't an Apostle? We know that there are S Classes, but what's to say that there aren't Monsters MORE CAPABLE than those, but less than the Apostles? Someone like maybe Valravn at his prime or Mommy Monster, that have a ridiculous level of intelligence and know so much about their world that they have provided a bigger lore drop than all of Xanthe's brain throughout the entire game. There's also the Rebis, which doesn't seem like an Apostle, but also is the genius of the race, I mean a Level 1 MONSTERFIED DERYL could progress all the way to Level 3 in a little over a month, what's to say his ancestor Monster isn't capable of furthering himself to beyond a Level 5?

I do believe it was mentioned that the Avatars that the Apostles descend down in can only stay for so long, but have the full power as if they were actually there (case in point WHY they can't stay for long). We know that Level 4 Ella was EASILY stricken with fear at the 7th, and that very 7th annihilated the 3rd. So while the Apostles aren't ranked in strength some of them easily clap the others while some of them also stand above of them. Take the 1st for example, it took both the 3rd and the 4th to restrain it, and Mommy Monster even mentions that the Order and Power? 1st and 2nd would make the ultimate "spawn" of Superhuman. I'd wager the 7th (Dark Lord), 6th I believe it was correct me if I'm wrong? (Master over Space) 1st (Authority/Order) and 2nd (Power?) Are amongst the Apostles that would EASILY be a larger handful to most Level 5s, and that's not even if mentioning their Arbiters can also combine their efforts to make a spawn (both combined powers like our possessed MC put in with another duo of powers).

Now I don't know how power works for when an Arbiter enters your body. It could be like an Evolutionary state (hence going from Lvl 2 to beyond? Lvl 5 I think it was stated?) and your at the peak of your powers for a time. Or the Arbiter was weakened compared to it's max potential due to the "vessel" not being strong enough to contain them, almost like an Avatar I'd assume (contrary to Mommy Dom's belief, I doubt their Apostle's Avatar's could use their ALL OUT powers in limited state). Now what strikes me as weird is why hone a Superhuman to vessel an Arbiter? Is it because Superhumans are inevitably going to become stronger, and they realize this as a way to corrupt them to their will early on (which would also explain the higher corruption at higher evolutions)? Or is it just because the Arbiters can't have an Avatar like the Apostles?

Who knows, but to your point it's worth mentioning that if a Level 5 becomes corrupt enough, they too can become a Monster, this making a Monster capable of beating a Level 5 Superhuman. I think Deus is a special case, and remember; his power either comes directly, or BRANCHES OFF from a Lord in some way. Which means one of these Lords (probably the Twin of the 6th, the 5th? i.e Space Time) would be VERY powerful amongst the Apostles, probably even more so than current Deus...

 

[bloodaxis]

Now I don't know how power works for when an Arbiter enters your body. It could be like an Evolutionary state (hence going from Lvl 2 to beyond? Lvl 5 I think it was stated?) and your at the peak of your powers for a time. Or the Arbiter was weakened compared to it's max potential due to the "vessel" not being strong enough to contain them, almost like an Avatar I'd assume (contrary to Mommy Dom's belief, I doubt their Apostle's Avatar's could use their ALL OUT powers in limited state). Now what strikes me as weird is why hone a Superhuman to vessel an Arbiter? Is it because Superhumans are inevitably going to become stronger, and they realize this as a way to corrupt them to their will early on (which would also explain the higher corruption at higher evolutions)? Or is it just because the Arbiters can't have an Avatar like the Apostles?

These are the stats after letting the Eye take over.

Spoiler: dead end 37 stats

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[vogelbeest]

The Eye is capable of connecting you directly to the Higher Plane,

Your connection with the higher plane seems to run through your parent... Their physical forms are there... You've been infected by them in their "avatar" form, a temporary vessel... But the real Apostles are in that plane. (The eye urges you to ignore them)
The eye is already in you, he has no physical form in that plane.. (pick you want "nothing" and he asks how/why he got paired up with you, most likely the Arbiters/Origins are dead, or at least most of them are) (The eye wants to be reborn, so he's dead) Most importantly, the Eye appears in your dreams several times and he breaks Jake's authority....

 

[DahliaRose]

I am no longer able to request my post get promoted to the OP from the mods. Only the owner of this thread can do it for me now. Otherwise this is the only notice you get that I have updated my android port.

Is that an android build of 0.951 or the 0.95 beta?

 

[Neverwonder]

with our power increasing to an insane 200 point. i wonder if we will ever get over 9000 u know for the meme

 

[Blizzard2255]

probably it would. 10000 would be a good figure for highest point in our strength. we also know how insanely powerful the level 5s are after the latest update and that a level 3 is laughable in comparison (the dude who has stayed in lvl 3 for decades) such as Malik's power seems to burn brighter than the Sun, Ella being able to maintain a single shape consistently, etc.

 

[Deleted member 1549804]

Okay, this game is really good, but my god the Party part made me mad af, why did the MC suddenly lose all of his brain? He stands around doing fuck all for such a long time while everyone is getting fucking killed, like what are you doing retard.

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

Okay, this game is really good, but my god the Party part made me mad af, why did the MC suddenly lose all of his brain? He stands around doing fuck all for such a long time while everyone is getting fucking killed, like what are you doing retard.

I want you to put yourself in the shoes of a shy newbound college kid. Then I want you to place yourself in a life or death scenario, where the only way out for your friends and yourself is to fight something mowing down COPIOUS amounts of people like a god damn anti infantry rail gun.

That was his debut, it's always significantly hard to do something like that no matter how angsty you think you are.

 

[Deleted member 1549804]

I want you to put yourself in the shoes of a shy newbound college kid. Then I want you to place yourself in a life or death scenario, where the only way out for your friends and yourself is to fight something mowing down COPIOUS amounts of people like a god damn anti infantry rail gun.

That was his debut, it's always significantly hard to do something like that no matter how angsty you think you are.

I think you are forgetting he has already encountered two life and death situations before that, and in neither of those he locked up like a pussy, but im good now he didnt pussy out in the end

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

I think you are forgetting he has already encountered two life and death situations before that, and in neither of those he locked up like a pussy, but im good now he didnt pussy out in the end

3 thugs in a dinner with pistols and Kenny the fucking Ripper are 2 VERY different things. The 3rd and 4th encounter don't count as he essentially ran for his life, which is the norm. You go be batman and tell me how it goes, PTSD amongst even elite soldiers exist for a reason...

 

[necromater]

Yeah mate the problem is that the MC is not a sociopath at most is a psyco and only if we make him act like one. Even then he would had bail the fuck away lets take tiff for example or there is any other sociopath in the game no ? Only the blonde cunt and maybe her Daddy? And Jared dad and klaus dad fuck this shit is Marvel levels of crappy dads

 

[ItzSyther]

Okay, this game is really good, but my god the Party part made me mad af, why did the MC suddenly lose all of his brain? He stands around doing fuck all for such a long time while everyone is getting fucking killed, like what are you doing retard.

MC don't be using his noggin all that often but when he does he is quite fantastic. Also I agree with RonaldGrand6969 there is an extreme difference in the situations the MC faces which one is explainable by human (simple thugs trying to kill you) vs holy shit it's a monster WTF is goin on.

Me personally, even with my newfound powers I'd be at a damn loss for a few moments myself so I guess you can say that situation was quite realistic for some of us.

 

[Deleted member 1549804]

MC don't be using his noggin all that often but when he does he is quite fantastic. Also I agree with RonaldGrand6969 there is an extreme difference in the situations the MC faces which one is explainable by human (simple thugs trying to kill you) vs holy shit it's a monster WTF is goin on.

Me personally, even with my newfound powers I'd be at a damn loss for a few moments myself so I guess you can say that situation was quite realistic for some of us.

True, i see it now, but at the moment i didn't want so many to die, i thought main girls will be killed

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

True, i see it now, but at the moment i didn't want so many to die, i thought main girls will be killed

Oh ya no I would've been pissed too. I do feel though that if your friends were visibly threatened in front of you between life or death; most people would've stopped freezing and jumped into action out of a desire to preserve loved ones.