Tell me about business of making, marketing, and selling adult games

[Waterthose]

God, just fucking kiss already.

 

[tanstaafl]

God, just fucking kiss already.


View attachment 4743291

Oh, now I"m nervous. Should I brush my teeth?

 

[peterppp]

1. I'll probably never stop trolling, honestly. I think the trick is to not make assumptions about my intentions in the first place and I wouldn't.
2. Never been dishonest. The "would come running" was just to take a dig at you, see number 1.

I was being honest here.


The original statement that is referring to is, of course, what you had gotten twisted about in the first place. You obviously though I was upset about a disagree (I wasn't) and thought I was being malicious (I wasn't).

dude, if you're trolling, dont blame others for misunderstanding your intentions

if you were honest, then i'm willing to leave it as a misunderstanding. but your new version is still a crappy generalization. "You are more on the side of it's safer than people seem to think" should be "than i (tanstaafl) think". dont speak for others.

still wrong. how about not making assumptions about what i thought or not.

no kissing. the best i will offer is a bad handshake

 

[tanstaafl]

dude, if you're trolling, dont blame others for misunderstanding your intentions

Didn't start trolling until after the misunderstanding, but sure.

if you were honest, then i'm willing to leave it as a misunderstanding. but your new version is still a crappy generalization. "You are more on the side of it's safer than people seem to think" should be "than i (tanstaafl) think". dont speak for others.

No, I'm going to stick with the you version of that statement because I've seen you correcting people several times about it when they are worried that steam will ban them or others. Thus "You are more on the side of it's safer than people seem to think." It's not an "I think" thing when I've actually seen you do it.

 

[peterppp]

No, I'm going to stick with the you version of that statement because I've seen you correcting people several times about it when they are worried that steam will ban them or others. Thus "You are more on the side of it's safer than people seem to think." It's not an "I think" thing when I've actually seen you do it.

you cant draw that conclusion or make a generalisation based on a few occurences like that. they hold no statistical value because we dont know how much they reflect general opinion. for all we know, they could be the only ones worried (which is why they are asking). you would need to ask a randomized selection of users to estimate their general thoughts

instead, the conclusion would in this case be that i think it's safer than several people seem to think. that's just raw data. no generalisation.

and you, since i've seen you say to several people that incest is risky, think it's more risky than several people seem to think. that alone doesnt necessarily mean you think it's more risky than me since the people were different, but we can see from our exchanges that you think it is riskier than me. that's all we can say.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

and you, since i've seen you say to several people that incest is risky, think it's more risky than several people seem to think. that alone doesnt necessarily mean you think it's more risky than me since the people were different, but we can see from our exchanges that you think it is riskier than me. that's all we can say.

Wish you would both stop saying riskier & break it down.

If a thing is deemed unacceptable by a platform the outcome is being removed, which is a severe and universal outcome regardless of the likelihood of that happening.

So what you are arguing is the likelihood of being removed from a platform, and if the likelihood is lower either way it will still scale with player numbers/exposure.

If not outside the Terms of service there is no risk. So by saying there is a risk then you are both in agreement there is potential for a disastrous outcome.

Its like riding a superbike at 300 mph - 'im a good rider' might have a bearing on if you crash, but the fact is if you crash you are just as dead as the noob.

 

[peterppp]

Wish you would both stop saying riskier & break it down.

If a thing is deemed unacceptable by a platform the outcome is being removed, which is a severe and universal outcome regardless of the likelihood of that happening.

So what you are arguing is the likelihood of being removed from a platform, and if the likelihood is lower either way it will still scale with player numbers/exposure.

If not outside the Terms of service there is no risk. So by saying there is a risk then you are both in agreement there is potential for a disastrous outcome.

i've already broken it down.
patreon: no.
steam/itch/ss: yes
oppaiman: new, but i havent heard of any problems with it, so i'm assuming they are ok with incest

but it's not that simple to only look at the tos. you both have to look at tos and how it is enforced.

patreon explicitly forbids stuff like incest, but they dont actively monitor games once your patreon page is approved. they enforce their tos based on reports. you can have incest games on patreon, but any day you can get the ban hammer. so it's a big risk. up to every dev if they want to take it.

ss forbids stuff officially, while allowing it inofficially since they dont care except making money. so basically anything that isn't outright illegal is allowed there no matter what their tos say. westy was allowed with his pedo game and was only removed because police seized his computers and he got arrested.

steam and itch dont mention incest specifically (from what i can remember) but we know steam allows it since they review all games and incest games pass review.

itch is a bit riskier than steam and ss overall, even patreon to some degree, since their tos is vague and enforcement seems spotty and we know they have decided to suddenly come after a number of adult games for unknown reasons. but there is nothing indicating they specifically dont allow incest that i know of.

then there is the overall risk of adult games for various reasons just because they are adult oriented and that can make bad shit happen. like your paypal/payoneer may get banned. shouldn't happen normally if you do it right but there are unknown reasons for some bans which may hint at something more.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

but it's not that simple to only look at the tos. you both have to look at tos and how it is enforced.

That was my point, unless its ALLOWED EXPLICITLY then you run the risk of a ban.

To show what i am saying think about poker for a second

Going all-in in poker on a 'good' potential hand doesn't change that a loss will still be everything. And more players reduce the likelihood of getting the cards you need to win (and so increase your chances of that maximum loss occurring).

Including something like that in your game creates potential to lose everything, you are just arguing how likely it is for that to occur. And just like poker, more players means more potential money but also more likelihood of reports & the maximum loss occurring.

Basically the longer and more popular your game gets, the more the likelihood of that ban increases.

 

[peterppp]

That was my point, unless its ALLOWED EXPLICITLY then you run the risk of a ban.

a tos doesnt need to be explicit to allow things, nor explicit to prohibit things. ultimately, it's about how they interpret their rules (which arent always explicit to us) and enforce them and this can change at any moment. doing a "no risk" or "risk" like you want is naive. that's not how the world works. there are degrees of risk to anything. so we have to go by what is currently true. patreon could ban all adult games tomorrow. does that mean having a vanilla adult game on patreon is a risk? yes, if you want it to be 100% risk free because no such thing exists. as the saying goes: only two things are certain: death and taxes

ignoring the poker analogy since it isn't relevant

 

[tanstaafl]

a tos doesnt need to be explicit to allow things, or explicit to prohibit things. ultimately, it's about how they interpret their rules (which arent always explicit to us) and enforce them and this can change at any moment.

True. It seems steam kept their rules intentionally vague so they can have more leeway in when and if they do anything.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

True. It seems steam kept their rules intentionally vague so they can have more leeway in when and if they do anything.

And more eyes = more reports = more pressure to interpret a certain way. My point was if its not clearly allowed, it can be used against you.

ignoring the poker analogy since it isn't relevant

It is entirely relevant.. if you don't see why then read it again. If you still don't understand why then you don't understand risk.

Risk is in everything, but there is risking EVERYTHING & risking SOMETHING vs how likely it is to occur. There are plenty of risky things that wont kill you. Including something in your game that can kill it is different to including something far more vague, and before you say more on that remember incest is a CRIME in many many countries.

Putting incest in a game is like building a castle on sand, start filling it with gold and then hoping noone lays siege to it. Your argument is that it depends if anyone notices... but that part increases the more gold involved.

Some devs have a vague approach of just allowing the player a text box to define the relationship between certain characters, outright making it a part of your game though is putting a killswitch in your game & hoping noone notices it.


EDIT: Heres another example of risk. You are offered a US million bucks and given the choice of either
1) play a round of Russian Roulette
2) Flip a coin

A round of Russian roulette has a 5/6 chance of winning, but 1/6 chance of dying.
Coin Toss is 50/50 but you walk away.

Probability and consequence are both parts of 'risk'.

So Incest games risk maximum loss on a sliding probability (increasing as the game gains attention). Just because some games currently include it on say steam doesn't mean that Steams not 1 controversy away from banning that tag and everyone associated with it, unless they have explicitly stated it is ok.

 

[peterppp]

Your argument is that it depends if anyone notices...

what argument? the closest to that is what i said about patreon, since they dont allow incest and they enforce their rules based on reports.

there is a risk for a disastrous outcome every day for every game. the risk differs though which is what me and tanstaafl talked about when it comes to incest. you bring nothing of value to this discussion.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

what argument? the closest to that is what i said about patreon, since they dont allow incest and they enforce their rules based on reports.

there is a risk for a disastrous outcome every day for every game. the risk differs though which is what me and tanstaafl talked about when it comes to incest. you bring nothing of value to this discussion.

Your failure to understand what I am saying doesn't mean I am not saying something. You clearly are not reading what I am writing.

 

[peterppp]

Your failure to understand what I am saying doesn't mean I am not saying something. You clearly are not reading what I am writing.

then what am i reading?

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

then what am i reading?

Looking and reading are not the same thing

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

there is a risk for a disastrous outcome every day for every game. the risk differs though which is what me and tanstaafl talked about when it comes to incest. you bring nothing of value to this discussion.

I'll dumb it down for you;

1) there is a difference between platforms allowing something and being yet to ban it.
2) Incest is criminal in many places, controversial in all.
3) putting it in your game adds a reason for your game to get deleted off of a platform
4) The likelihood of it being deleted increases the longer the game runs & more games like it draw attention to platforms allowing it.

 

[peterppp]

I'll dumb it down for you;

1) there is a difference between platforms allowing something and being yet to ban it.
2) Incest is criminal in many places, controversial in all.
3) putting it in your game adds a reason for your game to get deleted off of a platform
4) The likelihood of it being deleted increases the longer the game runs & more games like it draw attention to platforms allowing it.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

View attachment 4744271

Say you have no response without saying you have no response hahaha

Your brain cant get past the fact you like incest and dont want anyone saying that devs should avoid it for the longterm health of their game

Get back in your clown car

 

[Baitch]

in the end

no incest and no minors if you want a free pass on every money maker page

 

[Goeffel]

Generally it comes down to the quality of it. A generic RPGmaker game with 20 scenes is going to be ignored..

"quality" is easy to say, but hard to define, like really down to details.

not sure if it still is up in the tops, but iirc. HuniePop was a most successful nsfw game once?
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edit : holyfuckingshit - after decades, German wikipedia finally, FINALLY takes searchterms into the "nothing-found-search-other-languages" mask. still ridiculous how long it took them.

oh, and mandatory:

Spoiler: some music

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