The appeal of the taboo or controversial.

obibobi

Active Member
May 10, 2017
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#1
As many of you are aware incest is one of the biggest fetishes on this website, it almost seems normal in these games and you would think nothing of it but it's not something you would casually mention in real life. But the appeal of this fetish isn't just that it's taboo, it's taboo without needing to be inherently harmful. Rape, abuse and cuckolding are taboo but unlike the incest, someone is required to get hurt physically or emotionally within the story which can leave a bad taste.

There was a game made recently that involves a large breasted woman in a Burka. Very similar to the nun fetish but unlike the nun fetish it's more taboo in the world today which adds to it's appeal and there have been a number of threads inquiring about game ideas so this is this is a thread to discuss a basic formula for potentially good ideas.

Controversial + no one gets hurt

Of course now we get down to examples, we had the Burka, but how about a game set during the Americas when slavery was still legal, between a white man and a black slave woman. Controversial? no shit but that's what makes it so appealing, you could easily make a story around it that's not mean spirited. I would dare someone to find a more controversial setting while still being legal but even if you can't, it doesn't mean you shouldn't mention them.

 
Jul 27, 2017
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#2
But the appeal of this fetish isn't just that it's taboo, it's taboo without needing to be inherently harmful. Rape, abuse and cuckolding are taboo but unlike the incest, someone is required to get hurt physically or emotionally within the story which can leave a bad taste.
That's just because all the incest porn stories are written in a way where it's not "harmful" and nobody ever gets mad that you sneak in their room and jizz on your mom's boobs. You can also write a rape story where the victim actually loves getting raped and everybody lives happily ever after. Is that realistic? No, but neither are all the "16 year boy with horse dick seduces mom and sisters and lives with a personal harem of family members."
 

obibobi

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May 10, 2017
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#3
That's just because all the incest porn stories are written in a way where it's not "harmful" and nobody ever gets mad that you sneak in their room and jizz on your mom's boobs. You can also write a rape story where the victim actually loves getting raped and everybody lives happily ever after. Is that realistic? No, but neither are all the "16 year boy with horse dick seduces mom and sisters and lives with a personal harem of family members."
Well yeah, one of the advantages of fiction. But as I said they aren't inherently harmful and what you are describing is not asking for consent whereas rape as a proper fetish is the kind of stuff you would find in Japanese games and quite dark. Although technically the same thing, when it comes to games like this we don't sweat the details, how it comes across is more important.
 
Jul 27, 2017
199
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#4
Well yeah, one of the advantages of fiction. But as I said they aren't inherently harmful and what you are describing is not asking for consent whereas rape as a proper fetish is the kind of stuff you would find in Japanese games and quite dark. Although technically the same thing, when it comes to games like this we don't sweat the details, how it comes across is more important.
Sure, I just think a lot of people are very hypocritical when it comes to these issues, especially considering how many incest themed games involve very young looking models (BUT DON'T WORRY, THEY ARE TOTALLY ALL 18, WE PROMISE) and pretty creepy behavior like spying on naked family members or outright molesting them in their sleep. But it's okay, because it isn't portrayed as "dark."

I'm not saying these games are necessarily bad or you shouldn't like them, but I find it a little funny when those people then go "how could you make a game that involves rape" or getting butthurt over a woman in a hijab or whatever the problem was there.
 

redknight00

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#5
No one gets hurt except all the landladies, roommates and tenants that have been raped, drugged and blackmailed to satiate the lust of the main characters.
 
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obibobi

Active Member
May 10, 2017
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#6
Sure, I just think a lot of people are very hypocritical when it comes to these issues, especially considering how many incest themed games involve very young looking models (BUT DON'T WORRY, THEY ARE TOTALLY ALL 18, WE PROMISE) and pretty creepy behavior like spying on naked family members or outright molesting them in their sleep. But it's okay, because it isn't portrayed as "dark."

I'm not saying these games are necessarily bad or you shouldn't like them, but I find it a little funny when those people then go "how could you make a game that involves rape" or getting butthurt over a woman in a hijab or whatever the problem was there.
I don't think a matter of whether it's ok or not should ever be an issue. Anyone who makes that argument is hypocritical because we casually consume ultra violent media where people suffer. Of course the defining difference is that they are ok with that, they aren't ok with rape in their media, not because it's wrong, but because they don't like it.

It's perfectly fair not to like things, but there's appeal in liking something you are not suppose to.

The purpose of the Hijab is to conceal a womans feminine form and people get really sensitive about it, all that comes together to add a lot of spicy appeal.
 

obibobi

Active Member
May 10, 2017
201
256
#7
No one gets hurt except all the landladies, roommates and tenants that have been raped, drugged and blackmailed to satiate the lust of the main characters.
Obviously IRL those are bad but what's funny is that in those games, I don't imagine that's what would hurt hurt them, probably because it's all so outlandish, it's that they are being cheated on.
 

Thialf

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Jun 4, 2017
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#8
this is a thread to discuss a basic formula for potentially good ideas.

Controversial + no one gets hurt
Good idea!

What I think is the main driver in such stories, is the potential for disaster, which you have to avoid.
That is also why I am not against avoidable NTR in a game, where the purpose is to avoid the NTR (e.g. Babysitter).

A game about slavery in the 18th/19th century USA would not really work, because it remains rape as well as being not terribly controversial at the time (assuming it was more or less acceptable to extract sexual favours from slaves).
The controversy would be a mutually consentual loving relationship between a deep-South slave owner and a black maid. The driver could then be to keep up appearances towards the neighbours.

The same could apply to a love story between a Nazi officer and a Jewish woman.

But such a love story (white + black or Nazi + Jew) is not so controversial in itself to a 21st century person, so I am not sure if it would work. The problem would be to sufficiently immerse the player into the culture of that time. In order to understand the controversy of Nazi + Jew, you need to understand Nazi ideology to the point where you'll really feel the controversy. I doubt that this is something that a lot of players are interested in.
 
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Skaldy

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Nov 7, 2017
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#9
This is what i dont understand when it comes down to entertaiment industry. I'm speaking for general entertaiment suffering from this, like some comedian makes a joke about incest boom people go mad and start shit like he is pro-incest. Meanwhile these people let their children watch war movies let their kids play brutal murder/killing games. Why is sex so complicated for humans is beyond my understanding(probably because i'm male and our brain/insticts reset after we cum).

I mean if it is with in the legal boundries(aka no underage stuff) let them be. There are tons of fetishes out there and for some reason people judge even prioritize their fetish over someone else's fetish. Now come to think i dont mind most of the fetishes probably because i dont self insert myself in game char's position.

Well it's the forbidden apple case really. If some sort of strick rules or laws are inserted more people are attracted to it i guess. I dont mind seeing any taboo or fetish in games since i'm just in for playing some sex games. And people are taking this business way too seriously. I always said this; whatever is on the internet dont take it seriously.
 
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anne O'nymous

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#10
There was a game made recently that involves a large breasted woman in a Burka. Very similar to the nun fetish but unlike the nun fetish it's more taboo in the world today which adds to it's appeal and there have been a number of threads inquiring about game ideas so this is this is a thread to discuss a basic formula for potentially good ideas.
I'll probably look dumb, but how the way a civilian woman dress can be taboo ? It can be seen as offensive, for feminists who deny to these women the right to voluntarily dress like this, and for Muslims who think that the game make fun of their belief. It can also be seen as stupid for anyone knowing that the Burka is a recent (less that 50 years old) invention of Salafism, but that's all.
By the way, there's nothing that make legit the comparison with the nun fetish. It don't rely on the way nuns dresses, but on their supposed innocence and purity ; I insist on the "supposed", because when I was 16, one of the nun in the Catholic school I attended was a prostitute before joining.


[...] but how about a game set during the Americas when slavery was still legal, between a white man and a black slave woman. Controversial ?
Not for the vast majority of the world. Like a story between a French/Belgian/Norwegian/Dutch/other woman and a German soldier would only be seen as controversial in countries that suffered from the Nazi occupation. I'm sure that not a single US citizen, as educated as he can be, would see this story as something more than anecdotally controversial.


I would dare someone to find a more controversial setting while still being legal but even if you can't, it doesn't mean you shouldn't mention them.
  • The already said love story between a local and the occupant during WWII ;
  • The love story between a Spanish and a Muslim during in the XV and XVI century's Spain ;
  • The love story between a Hutu and a Tutsi in 90' Rwanda ;
  • The love story between a Christian and a Jew between the XII and XVII century in most part of West Europe ;
  • The love story between a Catholic and a Protestant in the XVI century's France ;
  • The love story between a Sunnite and a Shiite at whatever time ;
  • The love story between an Armenian and a Turkish after WWI ;
  • The love story between a Japanese and a none Japanese at anytime before the XIX century, with bonus if it's the other is Korean.

There's tons more if you want. Take any controversial time of the long human history, and you'll find a "controversial" story. And it's not only limited to controversial times, it also concern great figure of the history. But as I implied above, it would be controversial only for people effectively concerned by it.

Now, as effective answer to your dare, and assuming that you are US citizen because of your own example, it's easy to find something more controversial, and I'm not sure that there can be something more controversial than this for an US citizen : The story of how the founding fathers claimed the independence of the USA, because the King George wanted to close the club they were all part of ; a club of sissy guys who loved nothing more than being tortured, humiliated and sexually abused by their mistresses and any guy they'd choose for them.
I'm sure that in the US you'll hit the controversial top faster than with your own story. Make some of the mistresses black and Native, and you'll even hit the top faster than light. Still the large majority of the world will absolutely not care about this and could eventually love the story.
 
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Jan 13, 2019
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#11
I don't find slaves and sex, more controversial than incest. That must be an American Taboo (Well, it is, I watch TV).
American colonial salvery sex comics? There's lots and there are nice.

But there's a lot of sex with slaves in media, and nobody gives a shit (Any game/movie/book in Egypt, Ancient Rome, etc).

On the end all is about quality of writing or if it's just a gimmick. Or a bad tasted writted gimmick, worst.

I don't even consider half of the incest games that one can find in this site really Incest, as Incest part is just a change of word (from roommate to sister, from tennat to mother)... There are only a few that are well written enough to feel that is incest and not just a gimmick to sell the game. (And less games even, where that incest plot feels minimally real)

Incest may be abundant in indie nsfw games right now but not because it's more or less controversial, or prefered fetish, just because between the creators whom just got inspired by other games, and the others that just wanna try to success doing the same.

There's quite a difference in the concept of controversy between "let's do something ofenssive to a minority but that would be hot for the majority and will not get my ass quick from the platform of choice" and "This is wrong but is hot" like real written incest.

Real world power dynamics could be as bad between mother and son as master and slave. Recently I played a "major incest game" and felt like the character was being raped by his mother, with the exception, that he's dumbled down tennager stereotype-hot rod that only want to put his dick in warm and doesn't care. The Story doesn't make sense at all, and even could be a more interesting game without the incest patch. (But I put it in hopes of getting something good).

What I'm saying; All goes to quality of writing. Controversy comes from the mind who acts, and the ability to transmit why he/she acts on such ways.

It's not like searching for "new controveries", because porn has existed for a long time and made nearly everything. It's about making it interesting. A incest game where the MC gives a fuck if he's fucking his mother, his sister or his friend, and they don't care neither, is not a controversial story.

Just two Ideas:
Prostitution. Is she being forced, she wants to do it? It's only about money? It's only because of the Danger?
Maybe starts in one of the two start points and ends in the other? That goes for a interesting story.

Incest without incest: MC has secret not even well self acknowledge Edypus/Electra syndrome, looks for other woman/men who reminds her of father/mother. There is no real incest in all the game, maybe only in fantasies.
 

DawnCry

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Nov 25, 2017
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#12
From my point of perspective... incest fetish developed so much because it's just "a character initial relationship", it doesn't affect any other fetish at all, it doesn't truly have a personality in the sense of other fetishes that can conflict with what someone likes.

For example... a NTR fetish can conflict with the harem fetish quite easily, even more there are quite a few big haters of it but at the same time most of them hate to see other male characters in a H game.

In fact some fetishes need more development than others, incest is quite easy because you only need to change a few dialogues, I believe that the hardest fetish to work around is the transformation fetish, meaning any change that gets done to a character, even so it does have quite a lot of people that like it.

Personally I believe that any fetish is valid under the point that it doesn't get... sad. I personally believe myself quite open to any fetish but for example while I tolerate parts of NTR, I noticed that I don't other parts. For example there was a time when I played thug hero party and god, that was shitty for me, didn't even end it, in this game you were a good for nothing and most of the game is pure unavoidable NTR. That was over my tolerance.

Basically I believe that any fetish will do if the characters don't feel sad after it, if you see for example the rance games it is mostly based over the rape fetish and while it has a few sad scenes in most of their games, it is comedic rape most of the time.
 
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GuyFreely

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May 2, 2018
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#13
I think there is a little bit of blurring the lines between taboo and controversial. To explain what I mean, we are going to use the scenario where everyone consents to the sex and skip rape for a second. So let's say a brother and sister develop romantic feelings for each other and have sex. This sort of relationship is generally frowned upon by society for moral reasons which stem from biological reasons (aka a higher chance of birth defects). I'm going to make an entirely unfounded guess that if the biological downsides of incest were not a part of the equation (and I mean historically, not like "we can fix it with science") then the moral objections would be lessened. Anyway, it's "naughty" or "immoral" even now which makes it exciting. Humans love doing things that are forbidden, it's what got us this far. Now take the 18/19th century slavery example. Let's say the owner and slave develop a romantic relationship and have sex. Sure, a large portion of society at the time would have an issue with this, but only because of racism. I'm sure arguments were made about the biology of the situation at the time, but we know any such claims to be false and still rooted in racism. Basically, an interracial couple is no big deal nowadays, so it's less exciting. We moved past the point where there are "moral" objections to it for the most part. That is not to say you couldn't make a perfectly good story set in that period between a slave and a non-slave and use the racism and threat of discovery to drive the story. I'm sure several movies have done this. My point is I don't think it has the same taboo appeal now that we are no longer in that period.

Now let's switch gears to rape (had to pause on that one for a second). Anyway, if you make a game where you are a white slave owner that rapes all his slaves on top of being an asshole that owns slaves, you are kind of asking for trouble. Sure, there are slavery simulator sex games, but I think most of them don't focus on the race issue. The slaves are merely at the bottom of a socioeconomic hierarchy. While raping poor people isn't particularly more moral than raping a certain race of people, it is more palatable. I'm not particularly opposed to rape fantasy in general, but I think making it racially charged will push some people's buttons. I mean imagine a violent game where all the enemies are one racial group. Outside of some historically accurate context, like a war where the two sides were different races or something, I think this is just controversial for the sake of controversy. Even worse it could be designed to promote some racist agenda. We could get into a debate about how a lot of the adult games here are sexist and the women in them are treated like shit, but that's a topic for another time.
 
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anne O'nymous

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#14
I'm going to make an entirely unfounded guess that if the biological downsides of incest were not a part of the equation (and I mean historically, not like "we can fix it with science") then the moral objections would be lessened.
I haven't the English references under my hands, but your guess isn't at all unfounded, still it must be weighted a little.
At least in what is now, more or less, Pakistan and in what was Indochina (Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia), some tribes (more in the "ethnic groups" meaning of the word than in the "small groups" one) tended to see incestuous relationship as totally legit, for two reasons. Firstly, the biological downsides where less visible because infant mortality was high anyway. Secondly, because incestuous relationship where more fertile.
The two combined made it that when a couple was an incestuous one, the chances to have many children that reach adult age were higher. And so, they didn't see why incest should be sometime forbidden, since it was beneficial for the tribe. Anyway, biologically speaking, it apparently tend to help getting ride of recessive genes since those who triggered them didn't lived long enough ; at least that what studies of these tribes tend to say.

If you look deeper in History, you can found other proofs of your "guess".
Infant mortality was very high at this time, and was seen as "defective child" any child who was too different (from puny or dreamer to retarded). Add to this the poor hygienic conditions, and any family had at least one child as "defective" as one that can come from an incestuous relationship. So, the downsides passed totally unknown at this time. And if you take a look at how incest was seen at this time, you discover that it's only in "civilized" (at the Ancient Greece level or above) societies that incest started to be seen as an effective taboo.
But this must be weighted. It's not the level of civilization that made it a taboo at this time, but more the global level of local education. Incest was taboo in towns and near them, while being normal in deep countryside.
It doesn't mean that it was the norm before this time or in deep countryside, just that it was an effective possibility and that, depending of the rank, it could have been enforced in some families. The more obvious example is probably the pharaohs, but it can also be found in merchant families or big landowners ones ; anyone who had some kind of power, even if it was just locally, could have seen incest as a totally legit solution to keep this power under the control of the family.

So, in the end, it's morality that made it a taboo, way before genetic. But nowadays societies tend to be more open minded (in fact it's more a binary thing. Either you are more open minded, or you are really close minded). Unmarried couples are legit, sexual deviance are just personal preferences, and homosexuality is something natural, and so on. So, if you remove the biological downside, incest would be seen as a possibility like any others.
And it appear that it is. In more or less half of the world incest is legal... as long that it's an unmarried couple ; which was at the time the laws was wrote, the way to say "don't have children together". For some countries, the Law even explicitly state that those couple can't legally have children.
 

Thialf

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Jun 4, 2017
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#15
I think that what one considers taboo is a personal feeling in the end.

Incest between consenting adults may be perfectly legal (the state doesn't and can't control what happens in the bedroom) but for most people it's still controversial. Most importantly, it should be controversial for the protagonist (and by extension, the player), because otherwise it's just a gimmick. Which is something that a lot of so-called "incest" games lack. I dare say that nobody in his right mind would dare to go to his mothers bedroom to feel her up in the hope that she doesn't wake up, because the consequences IRL would be huge. But it's difficult to convey a fear for awkward Christmas dinners for the rest of your life because of some attempted but failed romance between family members.

NTR / cheating / cuckolding is also legal, but it's also a matter people have opinions on. IRL, it could be one of the worst things that could happen to you, apart from being raped by your father. In a game it can be something to experiment with.

Although I love history, I would avoid it in a game because there are a lot of instances where people may interpret things differently than they should in the historical context. This either makes the game really hard to understand for the casual player or it becomes a porn version of Xena. Now that I mention that: WHY DID NOBODY MAKE THAT GAME YET!!?!?!?!
 

forbidden101v

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#16
Taboo or controversial themes are appealing because we will likely never experience such things in our lifetime. Like for example in Fallout 4 some guy approached me and sold me his dog only to be shot to death afterwards by me and 6 turrets I set up. I then stripped him of everything he had and hung him on my settlement sign. Exploring these sorts of things lets you in a way experience things you wouldn't normally do. Irl I wouldn't because for starters I don't think I have the balls to kill someone, I'm not entirely cold blooded, and I would get into a lot of trouble among other things. In a game on the other hand you get to embrace your inner psychopath sometimes its a question of how far you want to go with it and if you can handle it. Theres also the fact that whatever you do in fantasy has no real baring in reality as long as you keep it in fantasy.

Personally I think you can do whatever you want in fantasy whether its fucking your mother, raping orphans, selling someone into slavery, or torturing and murdering someone in front of their family. Just don't bring it to reality and you should be fine.
 
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Jul 16, 2017
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#17
Taboo or controversial themes are appealing because we will likely never experience such things in our lifetime. Like for example in Fallout 4 some guy approached me and sold me his dog only to be shot to death afterwards by me and 6 turrets I set up. I then stripped him of everything he had and hung him on my settlement sign. Exploring these sorts of things lets you in a way experience things you wouldn't normally do. Irl I wouldn't because for starters I don't think I have the balls to kill someone, I'm not entirely cold blooded, and I would get into a lot of trouble among other things. In a game on the other hand you get to embrace your inner psychopath sometimes its a question of how far you want to go with it and if you can handle it. Theres also the fact that whatever you do in fantasy has no real baring in reality as long as you keep it in fantasy.

Personally I think you can do whatever you want in fantasy whether its fucking your mother, raping orphans, selling someone into slavery, or torturing and murdering someone in front of their family. Just don't bring it to reality and you should be fine.
Thats all what need to be said :_)
 

obibobi

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May 10, 2017
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#18
but I think making it racially charged will push some people's buttons.
and that's the key point. Rape, incest, you are used to but for all your examples have an issue with making it racially charged which for me is where the appeal is. As for whether there is love stories in that period, practically none, I don't even think I've even heard of porn that plays on the white master, black female slave and there's a lot of degrading porn.

That it pushes peoples buttons is irrelevant. Fantasy is separate from reality.

So, in the end, it's morality that made it a taboo, way before genetic. But nowadays societies tend to be more open minded (in fact it's more a binary thing. Either you are more open minded, or you are really close minded). Unmarried couples are legit, sexual deviance are just personal preferences, and homosexuality is something natural, and so on. So, if you remove the biological downside, incest would be seen as a possibility like any others.
And it appear that it is. In more or less half of the world incest is legal... as long that it's an unmarried couple ; which was at the time the laws was wrote, the way to say "don't have children together". For some countries, the Law even explicitly state that those couple can't legally have children.
That's an extreme over simplification and the process isn't as fluid as you claim. The purpose of sex is to procreate healthy children to sustain the tribe, anything that helps is a positive, anything the deviates is a negative.

Places in the world allowed incest because it's a mixture of tribalism competing with avoiding potentially negative genetic traits.
 

anne O'nymous

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#19
That's an extreme over simplification
Is it simplification ? Obviously yes. We are on a forum talking about adult games, not on a forum talking about archaeo-sociology or even just sociology. But you can't say that it's "extreme over simplification" without going against decades of studies on the subject.


The purpose of sex is to procreate healthy children to sustain the tribe, anything that helps is a positive, anything the deviates is a negative.
Not at all.
The purpose of sex is to respond to a biological instinct. It's only with the rise of human conscience, then tribal one, that it started to have the purpose you give it. Then this purpose disappeared, more or less when History began, to become a selfish purpose in any place where tribes were replaced by countries. The tribes weren't anymore in need of children, because the tribes weren't anymore limited to an effectively small population.
Of course, any "defective" child was a burden, but it was now an individual burden ; the charge of it didn't felt anymore on the tribe, like before, but on the sole family. Then, with some exception like the ancient Sparta, "defective" children was only seen as a curse for his family and people outside of the said family didn't cared. This while, in the family, any living child was an opportunity, as long as his "defectiveness" didn't prevented him to help at least a little.

Anyway, inbreeding only raise the risk to have a "defective" child because of recessive genes. Those genes can still be triggered without inbreeding, and the rise is far to be as high as people tend to see it. You have more risk, but it doesn't mean that it will happen. If my memory don't betray me, the risk is around 25% so, statistically speaking, over four children, one will trigger a defective recessive gene ; note that here I don't talk about generic recessive genes, so not those that will give you blue eyes or red hair by example. With the infant mortality rate, the risk was even smaller since not so many families at this time had the chance to see four of there children becoming adults.
It is even proved, by the simple ascertainment over of lab's rats, that the endogamic depression (the consequence of inbred reproduction) tend to disappear after many generations. Or, more exactly, that any lethal recessive gene have simply disappeared. Therefore, the fact to massively inbred the population for generations have cleaned the genome of this population. And it can be explained simply. Any family branch where one of those genes "regain force" will end soon or later because any time the said gene will effectively be triggered, the individual that will trigger it will die. So, soon or later this branch will be terminated. This while family branch where the same genes "loose force" will survive longer ; long enough to see this recessive gene totally disappearing.
Applied to a population where individuals have the liberty to choose their partner, it lead to the theory of evolution. A specie don't just inherit over time of the positive genes, it also get ride of defective ones if the said specie have frequent inbreeding. All this being to see like the theory of evolution, so on a time period starting right after the last mass extinction and ending recently (let's say around 10 000 years ago).
What is still to understand is if the "protection against incest" that can be seen in some species, is or not a consequence of the evolution ; meaning that once the genome was cleaned enough, other genes appeared by mutation, generating this "protection" and so leading to the preservation of the now effectively viable specie by avoidance of incest.

All this said, if we know that incest have biological consequences, it's not because of modern science. We (the humankind) knew it before science was able to prove what effectively happen and to explain why it happen. In fact, we heard about it more or less at the same time we learned about DNA, but before we effectively understood what was DNA ; at this time we just knew about nuclein acids if my memory don't betray me.
As far as we know, it's Charles Darwin who was the first to theorize about it, using as base his research about plants and, to a lesser extent, his theory of evolution. For his research on plants, he proceeded to many cross reproduction and discovered that the plants resulting of this crossing tend to inherit not only of the major traits of their parents, but sometimes of what is now know as recessive ones.
And he did this, he applied his research to human inbreeding, because of his children's death... The children he had with his totally legally married wife who happened to also be his first degree cousin.


Places in the world allowed incest because it's a mixture of tribalism competing with avoiding potentially negative genetic traits.
And what about place in the world (more or less half of it) allowing incest ?
Here we don't talk about practice, but about laws legalizing incest, so something really recent ; like almost all of them state that these incestuous couples can't have children, you can easily date their last modification to the XX century.
So, what is the motive behind these laws, since the notion of tribalism disappeared from these countries more than 1500 years before the said laws were wrote.
 

obibobi

Active Member
May 10, 2017
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#20
Is it simplification ? Obviously yes. We are on a forum talking about adult games, not on a forum talking about archaeo-sociology or even just sociology. But you can't say that it's "extreme over simplification" without going against decades of studies on the subject.




The purpose of sex is to respond to a biological instinct. It's only with the rise of human conscience, then tribal one, that it started to have the purpose you give it. Then this purpose disappeared, more or less when History began, to become a selfish purpose in any place where tribes were replaced by countries. The tribes weren't anymore in need of children, because the tribes weren't anymore limited to an effectively small population.
Of course, any "defective" child was a burden, but it was now an individual burden ; the charge of it didn't felt anymore on the tribe, like before, but on the sole family. Then, with some exception like the ancient Sparta, "defective" children was only seen as a curse for his family and people outside of the said family didn't cared. This while, in the family, any living child was an opportunity, as long as his "defectiveness" didn't prevented him to help at least a little.
Then don't bring up outside what's required for the thread.

You wrote a lot but stopped there as you don't understand how psychological biology actually works. You are under the false
idea that innate human drives magically adapt to society when that is far from the truth.

Here is an actual example. Humans crave fatty and sugary foods because these where rare long ago. Now that we have plentiful access more than half the population is eating themselves to death.

Ugly and defective children may not be killed, but they are still shunned and beautiful women in practically every country in the world (beauty revolving almost entirely around how suitable they are as mates) are practically worshipped as celebrities.