The fact that virtually all games have a walkthrough mod is a sign of bad game design

amBest

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Jul 18, 2017
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I just wanted to get this out there, maybe have a discussion on the matter. How bad can you design a game, that the most popular mod for your game is a way of making the experience not suck ?

How bad is it that this is the case for almost all games?

Mid life crysis is amazing for being the opposite. It has non diegetic choices that say "harem? yey or nay?"
 

fitgirlbestgirl

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Jul 27, 2017
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I kind of agree, but you could also say it's a sign of some game design at least. A game that benefits from a walkthrough mod usually has different paths or choices that somewhat matter. Games that don't need one are often just barely disguised kinetic novels. But yeah, I'm not a fan of hidden stats and point systems or "oh, you had to pick dialogue choice 4b two hours ago to get this scene."
 

amBest

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Yeah, I wasn't clear enough. I did mean the linear visual novels with no choice. You're either right, or your wrong.

Though I love when someone who has no idea what he's talking about replies with "git gut". Quality :)
 

Liam the Handyman

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Jan 24, 2021
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It depends on the game no? Some WT mods show you what kind of points are given to the different choices. Some WT mod also try to guide players towards the most scenes for an optimal path. I would say its value adding and its up to players whether they want to mod their games.
 
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Hentai_Kishi

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I do agree but only to some extent. There are games which are story heavy and you can't really put an option like "Choose this to have this in the future" directly, playing games is a discovery experience after all and it would be kinda pointless to just choose everything from every choice you make. In the case of mysteries this is even more noticeable, the dev has to gently hint at some things and build up situations, not only erotic buildup but also story content buildup. So, not every game can be super direct.

I don't use walkthrough mods or any other mods really unless the game intentionally tries to lock you out of scenes for no reason at all or the grind is unbearable. I would personally say that if the player relies on walkthrough mods for every game that he/she plays then maybe the problem is with the player wanting to have an easy ride, actually the same as the people who scream for save files for every single game. Unless the game has some inherent issues like: bugs, grind, illusionary/deceptive choices, then there is no need to use a mod, at least I think so.

Bad game design doesn't necessarily mean giving the player vague choices, the player doesn't need to have all the information about something in the game (with exceptions of course), the player only needs general directions. Bad game design is having a million hidden stats that the player isn't informed of and therefore cannot direct his/her choice correctly. Bad game design is punishing player for chasing after specific content, especially in an adult game, not that there can't be consequences to what the player does storywise. Bad game design is interestingly enough, giving to the player all the information and handholding the player throughout the game.

Yeah, I wasn't clear enough. I did mean the linear visual novels with no choice. You're either right, or your wrong.

Though I love when someone who has no idea what he's talking about replies with "git gut". Quality :)
Well, I hope this big answer still applies. Lol.
 
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Aristro

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I do agree but only to some extent. There are games which are story heavy and you can't really put an option like "Choose this to have this in the future" directly, playing games is a discovery experience after all and it would be kinda pointless to just choose everything from every choice you make. In the case of mysteries this is even more noticeable, the dev has to gently hint at some things and build up situations, not only erotic buildup but also story content buildup. So, not every game can be super direct.
True... And some people who needs absolute answers to every choice can use walkthrough mods to enhance their experience. I don't think "wt mod culture' is a bad practice at all. It is just personal preference for some people... To be clear, my comment is about walkthrough mods only, there are some games which requires cheat mode to be at least playable; that is bad game design...
 
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Ceadmon

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May 28, 2020
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I agree with you but designing a game isn't as easy as you think, I myself have tried to make a game and I barely got through 10 minutes of gameplay.
Making an adult novel requires a lot of skills from modeling to rendering to coding to story writing and best of all sound design and the cherry on top multiple choice and if you start making the game without a story timeline (Which doesn't work in multi choice) you going to end up at a blocked Road and that's what happens with most of these game developers, they just practically forget where those choices might lead.
 
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おい!

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Mar 25, 2018
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I just wanted to get this out there, maybe have a discussion on the matter. How bad can you design a game, that the most popular mod for your game is a way of making the experience not suck ?

How bad is it that this is the case for almost all games?

Mid life crysis is amazing for being the opposite. It has non diegetic choices that say "harem? yey or nay?"
Well considering that most people who are looking for walk-through mods, are just lazy bastards, I cannot see that being the fault of the devs or their games.(y)
 

anne O'nymous

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I just wanted to get this out there, maybe have a discussion on the matter. How bad can you design a game, that the most popular mod for your game is a way of making the experience not suck ?
Why expect that a walkthrough mod is necessarily used to make a game not suck ?

Most regular games have a walkthrough, that can be useful when you want to perform a certain task. "How to befriend the Legion in Fallout New Vegas" ? "Where are those fucking interface in System Shock" ? And so on.
Even on the adult scene, there's games that need you to be careful to the small details in order to achieve the "perfect score" ; don't be careful enough, and you'll miss the harem ending. Take Summer Scent by example. I wonder how may players are frustrated right now because they hit the bad end that came with the last update, or have had their MC ass raped. If you think about it, it's not difficult to avoid those two situations. But it's also really easy to miss the two/three choices that permit you to not prematurely end the game ; especially since it's an adult games and you need to not focus too much on the lewd to make the right choice.
Because it's something that need to be remembered, it's adult games. A lot of players just want to see the goods. And like they don't want to miss a single part of them, nor have to think too much, they use a walkthrough whatever if it's really needed or not.
In the same times, too much games have a so bad design that you end expecting the same thing from all games, and therefore tend to not take the choices seriously enough. There's a harem possibility ? "Yeah, I'll pursue all the girls then". Well, too bad, Summer Scent is a game that expect you to make the right, and logical, choices if you want to have the harem ending. If you play it like any regular shitty harem game, you'll end with a dead body and a girl too depressed to care about your existence.

There's also games like Super Powered, where you can easily miss part of the content. Not because the design is bad, but because it offer too much varieties and its too opened to the player decisions. There's some design flaws, partly during the quests where the player advance a little too much in the dark, but it's a really small part of the reason why a walkthrough is needed for this game. The main reason is because it mimic too much real life behavior ; scenes don't happen without reason, and those reasons are a combination of different factors.
If you don't know what Nikki's Fetish is, you'll never see the scenes where she's involved with another girl. And it's normal, it's supposed to happen like this in real life. You can't try to turn this into a threesome if you don't know what kind of girls she can't resist ; and this second girl can't be Allie or Chelsea if one isn't actually turned into a sex craved nymphomaniac. Like you can't fuck Nikki as a male if she's not herself turned into a totally sex craved lesbian.
All this is logical and feel totally natural, but you can easily miss those scenes if you don't have a walkthrough to tell you that they exists. Then the way to see them will seem obvious while you follow the instructions, but what you needed, what you expected from the walkthrough, wasn't those directions, but the knowledge that those scenes exists.

And all this lead me to a conclusion at the opposite of yours. If a game don't need a walkthrough, then it probably have a shitty design. Whatever because the choices are way too obvious, or because they end being totally useless.
 
D

Deleted member 3145675

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You mostly need a mod whan you encounter a game you find enticing and whom you know is build upon a rational and logic scenario
background and reasoning.

Sadly it quickly appears also that this reasoning is not cartesian neither aristotelian nor copernician (even trying to call on upon the olden Gods's logic does not provide with a satisfying answer) then and only then shall a decent Mod be thy solution and salvation.
 
D

Deleted member 1603555

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it's funny how some games have really bad ui or graphic but still manage to be a fun game,
while some games are almost painful to replay.

i think the writing is specifically more important than the overall design.
 

おい!

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And all this lead me to a conclusion at the opposite of yours. If a game don't need a walkthrough, then it probably have a shitty design. Whatever because the choices are way too obvious, or because they end being totally useless.
Sorry but you are wrong, because not all games are the same for example Artificial girl 3 is not the same as Redemption for Jessika, but they are both classed as games.;)
 
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I'm leaning heavily towards the side of "If the game needs a walkthrough then it most likely suffers from design flaws".
Whilst it is true that walkthroughs are seen as a positive for games in general, I would argue that a lot of adult games lack the scope where a player can be lost in the possibilities and thereby miss or forget some of the content.

The worst offenders I feel is the VN's where you always have to make the perfect choice in order to unlock the perfect ending. It really spoils the fun when you have to be on your toes to not make a single mistake in the dialogue options.

That said, we are talking about adult games.
Finding a balance between needing to give the players direct answer or simply hint at the possibilities can be difficult. After all a good game will likely cause the players to get... distracted... during certain parts of the game and cause them to miss details they would otherwise have spotted if they simply kept both hands above the table during their playthrough.