The fact that virtually all games have a walkthrough mod is a sign of bad game design

[Adabelitoo]

No, they can add the "game" part, but they must convert the "game" part into something PORN related. They forget to do the last part. They've got to PORNIFY the "game" element.



It depends. If I'm exploring a small forest that takes 35-60 seconds to explore, in which you find a naked woman, that's cool.

If I'm exploring a forest that take 8-10 minutes to fully explore, in which you find a naked woman, that's problematic.



If I double click the exe file and it shows a splash screen image of a naked chick, as part of a logo, that would be more wise than not showing anything porn related.

An Adult Porn game must always realize what it is, visual & mental content meant for ejaculation.



Here let me help you understand.

Let's say you want your PORN GAME to have an in game garden, where player grows their own vegetables. What's the reason for growing vegetables in a normal game? For sustenance. What's the reason for growing vegetables in a PORN GAME? SO YOU CAN SHOVE THOSE VEGETABLES UP THAT WHORES ASS SO SHE CAN SHIT IT OUT IN THE MOST VULGAR AND DEGENERATE WAY.

See? That disgusting fucking pig shoved a tomato up her fucking whore asshole. That's the only reason I'd ever grow a tomato in a fucking porn game.

Oh, I have to grow a cucumber in game? Obviously to shove up the bitches shit hole right? THE GAME ELEMENT REQUIRES ME TO GROW A FUCKIGN VEGETABLE. THE PORN ELEMENT DEMANDS I SHOVE IT UP HER ASSHOLE. RIGHT? THE ONLY REASON YOU GROW A CUCUMBER IN AN IN GAME GARDEN, IN A PORN GAME, IS SO YOU SHOVE THAT FUCKER UP THE BITCHES ASS:

Good luck adding your non-porn game elements to your game. YOU HAVE FUN WITH THAT BUDDY! GOOD LUCK, lol.

edit: Sorry man, I don't mean to be mean or anything. I'm just frustrated. I've played so many bad games recently, it's upsetting.

No, not everything in a porn game must be porn. Showing a naked woman on a splashscreen isn't a bad choice but thinking that devs should "pornify" their games to that level is like saying that you should be able to aim and shoot to the menu option in a shooter just because it's a shooter, or race your car to every option menu just because you're playing a racing game. That's absurd.

God forbid you of not watching a naked girl for more than 61 seconds. God forbid you of doing any quest/side-quest to meet/develop a character's personality or background story and the world you are in. Since you're talking about vegetable so much. I guess you played Summertime Saga.

Good luck adding your non-porn game elements to your game. YOU HAVE FUN WITH THAT BUDDY! GOOD LUCK, lol.

Exaclty. SS is a game with a lot of minigames and non porn elements on it. You're asbolutely right. Nobody has fun playing that game and the dev needs good luck to make ends meet. LOL.

 

[hakarlman]

No, not everything in a porn game must be porn. Showing a naked woman on a splashscreen isn't a bad choice but thinking that devs should "pornify" their games to that level is like saying that you should be able to aim and shoot to the menu option in a shooter just because it's a shooter, or race your car to every option menu just because you're playing a racing game. That's absurd.

God forbid you of not watching a naked girl for more than 61 seconds. God forbid you of doing any quest/side-quest to meet/develop a character's personality or background story and the world you are in. Since you're talking about vegetable so much. I guess you played Summertime Saga.

Exaclty. SS is a game with a lot of minigames and non porn elements on it. You're asbolutely right. Nobody has fun playing that game and the dev needs good luck to make ends meet. LOL.

I'll admit, there are different breeds of players.

There are players who enjoy A Wife and Mother; a game where most (almost all) of the renders are of people doing mundane non-pornographic stuff. It's like why?! WHY?!

I think Summertime Saga is probably a good porn game, but every time I've tried to get into that game, the beginning bores me to absolute death. I've tried to get into that game FOUR times, and every time the beginning is just too complicated and boring. I have to like, what, find a shovel? Then find gas for the lawn mower? WTF? Then there's this teacher in the beginning of the game who is like "bla bla bla", and I'm like screw this and close that game.

God forbid you of not watching a naked girl for more than 61 seconds.

I expect some kind of porn content at least every 3-4 minutes.

Definitely different types of players.

 

[InCompleteController]

Exaclty. SS is a game with a lot of minigames and non porn elements on it. You're asbolutely right. Nobody has fun playing that game and the dev needs good luck to make ends meet. LOL.

I would say that the minigames in SS were rather hit and miss, with most of them being misses.

 

[Adabelitoo]

I expect some kind of porn content at least every 3-4 minutes.

Definitely different types of players.

I get that. Not all games are for all players. There are some games that are for people like you and there are others than won't be for you. But saying that things are bad/poorly done if they don't offer you fast gratification is dumb.

I would say that the minigames in SS were rather hit and miss, with most of them being misses.

Not like I like them to be honest, but those misses still make enough money to buy my house 3 times in a month, so I guess others do like them after all. Not even in my top 10 worse mini-games played here anyway. Edit: Well, maybe the pizza delivery is top 9 =/

 

[Staimh]

there are different breeds of players

Not all games are for all players

Which is why we need the fap-o-meter five star rating system

 

[fidless]

I just wanted to get this out there, maybe have a discussion on the matter. How bad can you design a game, that the most popular mod for your game is a way of making the experience not suck ?

How bad is it that this is the case for almost all games?

Mid life crysis is amazing for being the opposite. It has non diegetic choices that say "harem? yey or nay?"

People ask for a walkthrough for linear games. For games with 5-10 choices with minor deviations.

 

[InCompleteController]

Not like I like them to be honest, but those misses still make enough money to buy my house 3 times in a month, so I guess others do like them after all.

I would argue that they are somewhat neutral to his success. Initially they add a little variety to the game, but in the long run I feel that they are a drawback. Especially not if you have to restart multiple times due to the lack of save compatibility.

His success has more to do with a likable and consistent art style as well as somewhat regular updates through many years. Being the most well known creator does wonders for his business as new players will seek him out first and give him their donations before getting burned out.

 

[Deleted member 3145675]

I would argue that they are somewhat neutral to his success. Initially they add a little variety to the game, but in the long run I feel that they are a drawback. Especially not if you have to restart multiple times due to the lack of save compatibility.

His success has more to do with a likable and consistent art style as well as somewhat regular updates through many years. Being the most well known creator does wonders for his business as new players will seek him out first and give him their donations before getting burned out.

yup,
that's exactly why McDonalds is a billion dollars business by providing "poorly informed customers" with - let's say - something that may look like food to a person affected with severe myopia (and ageusia).

 

[InCompleteController]

Man, the timing was almost perfect.

Summertime Saga just released a new version and it seems like most of the complaints are about a new minigame. I wonder how bad it would have been, if it wasn't possible to skip it by opening the main menu, which causes it to crash.

 

[Deleted member 3145675]

To circle back to the topic,

I'd like to take GGGB as an example of a very good game that is actually
bettered by a walkthrough (ingame mod in that case)

after having played the game many times without cheating or hints
I went on to read threads about it and discovered endings that I had
not found in my playthroughs or found out that a particular ending I
had been searching (Jessica slut route lez GF) had never been implemented
or that Ashley could actually severely cuck her BF or become Leader of the Gang

So i installed a mod that would help me with a new playthrough with those endings
and it was quite safisfactory.
(even if I had to admit to being too dumb to finding them by myself)
(that's ok I can survive that)

 

[recreation]

Its not bad game design though.. most people just wanna skip the dialogues to get to the sex scenes, but if they read the dialogue then the mod wouldn't even be necessary.

^this
I've seen people asking for a walkthrough/mod even before playing the game and not only once.

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

I've seen people asking for a walkthrough/mod even before playing the game and not only once.

If there's an OscarSix mod for a game I will install it before playing the game every time. His mods are always well made and I just like having the transparency of seeing what exactly my choices do. I understand that some people like to just be surprised or replay a game multiple times if there are multiple paths, I usually just want to play the path that appeals to me the most and be done with it.

 

[amBest]

More than not Cartesian, I think that the problem of those games come from the author being too focused on the outcome, when he should be focused on the situation itself ; there's a logic behind the chain of decisions that lead to "this particular scene", but a logic that can be seen only if you start from the scene and trace back to the first decision.




I was, obviously, talking about games that can have a walkthrough. There's on the scene some platform games, Kill'm'All, and games like that, where a walkthrough would have no meaning because it would have no content.




What apply to completed games, but what about games release by updates ? Fetish Locator have had an update, can you tell me the name and particularity of all the girls ? Same for a game like WVM or Ecchi Sensei, that have way too many characters.
Not that a walkthrough is effectively needed for those games, but for someone who follow, and then play, too many games, a walkthrough can replace a messed memory. I mean, have you never confused two games and seeing a scene or a dialog line, thought something like, "oh, yeah, it's this bitch, why did I thought it was the beauty from [whatever] ?"




You mean guys like Slonique ? If you don't know how to read mind, you just can't play one of his VN. But ideally either games shouldn't have "perfect ending", or the "not perfect" answer shouldn't close the door.
The game can perfectly let you end with the girl, but you'll not have a baby because you haven't gave the right answer where talking about this, or things like that. It's not the "perfect ending" in regard of the game, because you haven't raised all the flags, but it's the "perfect ending" in regard of the player, because he would have chosen differently if he want "this" or "that" to be part of the ending. Like it can also perfectly give you other opportunities to raise the said flag.




Is the game effectively well wrote if the details happen during the lewd parts ? What girls tell you that her favorite dessert is apple pie (what you'll need to know if you want to max the score of the last date, and so to marry her) when you're deep inside her ? "Oh yes, your dick is soooooo goooooodd in me, as good as apple pie, my favorite dessert". Not sure that it would keep me turn on
It's part of the design to know that at this moment the player can be distracted and that you shouldn't give important information. This even if the said information is related to the lewd content. If you want to explain to the player how to let the girl do anal, don't do it during a sex scene, but afterward. During the scene itself, she refuse categorically that he put a finger in her ass. Then, the day after she talk about this, explaining that it have nothing to do with him, but her ex was an asshole who always fucked her ass dry without consideration for her and all ; she can let MC do it, but he have to go slow, warn her and so.
You still give the information, it still make sense to give them at this moment, but you're doing it when the player will notice the importance of what is said.




And the scenes last longer.

TBH, I was only talking about faux sandboxes, and completely linear games. Aka completely linear games, and completely linear games with a bunch of pointless clicking in the middle - for no good reason may I add, except padding and sheer incompetence.

And not all of them. I have nothing against a completely linear and simple game with 2-3 branching paths max. HECK, I don't mind a branchless linear game, a visual novel. A porn book with a lot of gratuitous images plastered all over. An interactive porn comicbook. With the faux sandboxes though, they can all go die for what I care.

But your points are just as valid. Games that expect you to remember things, months down the line. Cuz this is not a complete game, no. It's a peacemeal, you get an update on that thing you already forgot 4 months ago, and no quest log, ENJOY!

I'm all for consequences to your actions, also. But logical ones. Imho, a lot of the games here are the rebirth of moon-logic. "If you went to the party, and peeked at X, but not too long, and then had a drink - four updates later, that will materialise in the extra option of having a baby with your wife. If you didn't, no pregnancy, SAWY". Or stuff like that. HOW IS THE FIRST PART EVEN RELATED TO THE SECOND PART. I'm a bit angry at myself that I don't keep a tally on all the BS I encoutner so that I can give real examples, but still.

No, they can add the "game" part, but they must convert the "game" part into something PORN related. They forget to do the last part. They've got to PORNIFY the "game" element.



It depends. If I'm exploring a small forest that takes 35-60 seconds to explore, in which you find a naked woman, that's cool.

If I'm exploring a forest that take 8-10 minutes to fully explore, in which you find a naked woman, that's problematic.



If I double click the exe file and it shows a splash screen image of a naked chick, as part of a logo, that would be more wise than not showing anything porn related.

An Adult Porn game must always realize what it is, visual & mental content meant for ejaculation.



Here let me help you understand.

Let's say you want your PORN GAME to have an in game garden, where player grows their own vegetables. What's the reason for growing vegetables in a normal game? For sustenance. What's the reason for growing vegetables in a PORN GAME? SO YOU CAN SHOVE THOSE VEGETABLES UP THAT WHORES ASS SO SHE CAN SHIT IT OUT IN THE MOST VULGAR AND DEGENERATE WAY.

See? That disgusting fucking pig shoved a tomato up her fucking whore asshole. That's the only reason I'd ever grow a tomato in a fucking porn game.

Oh, I have to grow a cucumber in game? Obviously to shove up the bitches shit hole right? THE GAME ELEMENT REQUIRES ME TO GROW A FUCKIGN VEGETABLE. THE PORN ELEMENT DEMANDS I SHOVE IT UP HER ASSHOLE. RIGHT? THE ONLY REASON YOU GROW A CUCUMBER IN AN IN GAME GARDEN, IN A PORN GAME, IS SO YOU SHOVE THAT FUCKER UP THE BITCHES ASS:

Good luck adding your non-porn game elements to your game. YOU HAVE FUN WITH THAT BUDDY! GOOD LUCK, lol.

edit: Sorry man, I don't mean to be mean or anything. I'm just frustrated. I've played so many bad games recently, it's upsetting.

I have come to the conclusion that there is a deep divide in this community. I personally do not understand people on the other end of it, nor do I honestly wish to. Suffice it to say, there are people like me and you. We play a porn game to masturbate. If I'm in a random village in the middle of nowhere with nothing interesting plot wise, I at least wanna see the miller's daughter get RAILED by a horse.

If I get a quest to bring back an eggplant to some widow, she better fucking stuff it in her ass, or otherwise - what's the point?

Don't get me wrong. I sometimes am in the mood for something that isn't incest, scat, bestiality or gore. I've played some romantic, story focused games and I've loved them. I've been a patron of "Kindread: The Redburns" for quite some time. Or rather, bought a full priced game's worth of beer. This is a bit not properly making my point since it's incest - but I love those characters, I love their personality and I love how they react to the world. They are actually characters, as in they act, react, and talk in a consistent, well-defined manner. I love them. And I love that game. BUT GUESS WHAT. IT'S STILL A PORN GAME. I GET TO FUCK PEOPLE ALL THE BLOODY TIME!

Some people just larping as some dude fawning over a chick for months, without getting to do anything about it. I do not get those people, I do not relate, and I notice they don't get us, and do not relate.

It's strange cuz no discussion can be had, and there's no middle ground. It baffles me.

A few paragraphs back, I said "I personally do not understand people on the other end of it, nor do I honestly wish to." This is not how it started, this is how I am now, trying to understand and talk to them for ... more than a year? 3 years? I've given up.

 

[Staimh]

A few paragraphs back, I said "I personally do not understand people on the other end of it, nor do I honestly wish to." This is not how it started, this is how I am now, trying to understand and talk to them for ... more than a year? 3 years? I've given up.

vive la différence

 

[DuniX]

I don't think you can make a judgement on the design solely based on having a walkthrough.
Walkthroughs are going to exist for anything that has any choices, even if its completely linear.
Some people just don't want to take any chances on missing any bit of content regardless of what the game really is.

 

[ColdCats]

Not every game needs a walkthrough. I think for some games the walkthroughs are there so players can get to the lewd scenes as quickly as possible and get a quick fap with minimal fuss.

 

[Marcibx]

I know that this has been already written here in different words, but needing a walkthrough is not necessarily bad game design (can be even the sign of the opposite).

1. As mentioned, some people just want the H scenes - and the specific H scenes - so the walkthrough is a guideline for them how to get what they want. From their perspective the whole story is just grind. (I know that it breaks the heart of some developers but this is the case.)

2. Some games are designed with the intention of being challenging aimed at a specific target audience, but to not alienate the rest and give them too a chance to enjoy the game, it might be good to create a walkthrough. In this case this is not different from having an easy mode in a game that is otherwise meant to be hard. So it is not a sign of bad game design, but rather part of good game design (when provided by the developer).
And before you start saying "but what about easier games?" keep in mind that difficulty is subjective. You don't like/need walkthroughs? Great! Enjoy the games but don't demean players that use them.

3. And yeah, sometimes it is just bad game design, but admitting and owning it is a good thing. People here are not exactly aiming to compete with Ubisoft. The gameplay mechanics here are often just the means to an end. You have some good scenes in mind and "need" to wrap it in a story/game, so you create on OK game with some great scenes. Some might disagree with me, but I think this is still better than not making a game.
(For example, I really like Red Sakura Mansion, which has virtually no story, barely any gameplay mechanics - it is almost just a complicated gallery of H scenes - but boy, those scenes are good.)