VN Ren'Py The Fiery Scion [Update 23b] [Vander]

[harem.king]

Are you really offended by another dude fucking HIS wife in the same room, while MC fucks his own girl? I seldomly agree with the NTR guys, but that would be ridiculous..

You are assigning tribal assumptions. assuming everyone falls into two sides, and if I criticize anything said by a person from side A then I must be for side B.
I have no idea what the greater context of the argument is.

I just saw that one of myriad supporting arguments was very wrong and is in fact a pet peve of mine, so I pointed it out.
I don't do the tribalism thing, and I do in fact criticize people even in my own faction.

Now, as to the scenario you mentioned now...
You fucking your wife in the same room another guy is fucking his wife is not netorare.
but it is rather gross and is getting very close to swinging, without technically crossing the line into it.
It isn't cucked, but it is ick.

 

[HentaiKami]

Are you really offended by another dude fucking HIS wife in the same room, while MC fucks his own girl? I seldomly agree with the NTR guys, but that would be ridiculous..

There were few people like that in here when the update happened. It was pretty wild.

 

[HentaiKami]

Now, as to the scenario you mentioned now...
You fucking your wife in the same room another guy is fucking his wife is not netorare.
but it is rather gross and is getting very close to swinging, without technically crossing the line into it.
It isn't cucked, but it is ick.

Nah, swinging requires you to switch partners. Just fucking in the same room at the same time isn't close to swinging, it's closer to orgy. Edit. Now it's ok for it not being your kink, it's not really my kink either, not everything is for everyone, but you could always say it in a way that doesn't make you sound judgemental.

 

[Tiur]

Nah, swinging requires you to switch partners. Just fucking in the same room at the same time isn't close to swinging, it's closer to orgy.

And, as we keep saying about this game, this is specifically and explicitly called out in the OP (Developer Notes spoiler), and has been since the start:

" And that semi-public sex is part of the setting so you will be in situations were they fuck their own women from time to time, but you won't have to see it if you choose not to . But no sharing. Fuck that. "

There is zero NTR confusion or legalese going on in this game (and I'm one of the people who strongly dislikes the "but it's not technically NTR" legalese wrangling). Vander has been extremely clear about what to expect from his game, from the very beginning, and has delivered exactly what he said he would.

 

[harem.king]

Nah, swinging requires you to switch partners. Just fucking in the same room at the same time isn't close to swinging, it's closer to orgy.

1. orgy IS a form of swinging. switching partners is another form.
2. You literally quoted me saying explicitly said it is technically not swinging because you don't actually touch each other's wives.
3. It is very close to it, because you are literally exposing yourself and your spouses to each other, during sex, an intimate moment. The other guy is letting you look at his cock and his wife's pussy, look at her O-face, and participate as a voyeur bringing sexual excitement to them. And vice versa, you are letting him do the same.
4. It honestly feels like a situation where both men are too shy to admit they want to swing, so they are inching towards it. swinging chicken rather than gay chicken.

 

[Skep-tiker]

You are assigning tribal assumptions. assuming everyone falls into two sides, and if I criticize anything said by a person from side A then I must be for side B.
I have no idea what the greater context of the argument is.

I just saw that one of myriad supporting arguments was very wrong and is in fact a pet peve of mine, so I pointed it out.
I don't do the tribalism thing, and I do in fact criticize people even in my own faction.

Now, as to the scenario you mentioned now...
You fucking your wife in the same room another guy is fucking his wife is not netorare.
but it is rather gross and is getting very close to swinging, without technically crossing the line into it.
It isn't cucked, but it is ick.

1. orgy IS a form of swinging. switching partners is another form.
2. You literally quoted me saying explicitly said it is technically not swinging because you don't actually touch each other's wives.
3. It is very close to it, because you are literally exposing yourself and your spouses to each other, during sex, an intimate moment. The other guy is letting you look at his cock and his wife's pussy, look at her O-face, and participate as a voyeur bringing sexual excitement to them. And vice versa, you are letting him do the same.
4. It honestly feels like a situation where both men are too shy to admit they want to swing, so they are inching towards it. swinging chicken rather than gay chicken.

You really need to work on your confidence if you want to become a true harem king

 

[harem.king]

And, as we keep saying about this game, this is specifically and explicitly called out in the OP (Developer Notes spoiler), and has been since the start:

" And that semi-public sex is part of the setting so you will be in situations were they fuck their own women from time to time, but you won't have to see it if you choose not to . But no sharing. Fuck that. "

Which makes this one of the very rare threads where everything IS actually fully honestly explicitly outlined.
Usually such things are hidden under the aegis of "technically it isn't NTR because"...
and then come all the NTR lawyer things like

> they hold you down while forcing you to watch as they rape your wife which means she is not consenting and therefore not NTR. so we won't mention any of that in the OP or the tags or anywhere else and any mention of cuckoldry in the thread will be deleted"
> She had a high bodycount before you met so therefore it is unreasonable to expect loyalty now that she is with you
> you cheat on her first so it does not count if she cheats on you back in revenge
> she only kissed you and you didn't fuck yet, therefore she isn't yours yet at the time where you see her fucking chad.
> your MC does not "true love" her so it does not count
> the MC enjoys her cheating and feels no jealously, so it does not count
etc etc etc

this makes it necessary to ALWAYS in every thread search the thread for NTR and read every single post on the subject
Because dev will hide it as much as they can in the description

 

[Tiur]

1. orgy IS a form of swinging. switching partners is another form.
2. You literally quoted me saying explicitly said it is technically not swinging because you don't actually touch each other's wives.
3. It is very close to it, because you are literally exposing yourself and your spouses to each other, during sex, an intimate moment. The other guy is letting you look at his cock and his wife's pussy, look at her O-face, and participate as a voyeur bringing sexual excitement to them. And vice versa, you are letting him do the same.
4. It honestly feels like a situation where both men are too shy to admit they want to swing, so they are inching towards it. swinging chicken rather than gay chicken.

This is... quite a take. It also is directly contradicted by what Vander has said, both in the OP Developer Notes spoiler and throughout the thread. It is packed with some Olympic gymnastics-level stretching, and some wild assumptions.

 

[harem.king]

This is... quite a take. It also is directly contradicted by what Vander has said, both in the OP Developer Notes spoiler and throughout the thread. It is packed with some Olympic gymnastics-level stretching, and some wild assumptions.

1. the OP is irrelevant to our discussion about swinging and whatever the fuck you call two couples fucking together in the same room without crossing the wife swapping line.

2. we are having a discussion here about the definition of swinging.
the original start of the argument was EXPLICITLY about other threads, as he noted that 95% of OTHER THREADS THAT ARE NOT THIS GAME explicitly tell you in the OP everything in them, and I disagreed and said that said other threads that are not this game do not do that at all.
which caused Skep-tiker to step in and invok tribalism to assume that if I disagree with him about ANYTHING at all I must be in the other tribe and thus "one of those people who think X is swinging".

so you are highly over focused on this game specifically whereas the definition of the word swinging has nothing to do with this game.
This game only matters to the question of whether there is swinging in this game,
Which is a completely different argument from the one we are having about the definition of swinging

3. you are projecting (accusing me of what you are doing) very hard here.
You are doing Olympic gymnastics-level stretching to explain why this "technically not swinging" there is nothing at all weird or sexual about letting your buddy sit in the room with you and watch you fuck your wife in exchange for vice versa.
nope, completely ordinary behavior /sarcasm.

 

[Woodstock_1983]

95% of all threads on this site answer the question of "To Loli/Incest/NTR or not to Loli/Incest/NTR?" in the OP under Genre and/or Dev Notes.

All one has to do is READ THE WHOLE OP!

Anyway, I don't know why I don't auto-List™ everyone who asks these questions. In fact ...

Instead of keep saying check the OP try saying check the genre. When I see someone say check the OP, the first thing that comes to mind is the Developer Notes. not the Genre

 

[Skep-tiker]

1. the OP is irrelevant to our discussion about swinging and whatever the fuck you call two couples fucking together in the same room without crossing the wife swapping line.

2. we are having a discussion here about the definition of swinging.
the original start of the argument was EXPLICITLY about other threads, as he noted that 95% of OTHER THREADS THAT ARE NOT THIS GAME explicitly tell you in the OP everything in them, and I disagreed and said that said other threads that are not this game do not do that at all. And thus he invoked tribalism to assume that if I disagree with him about ANYTHING at all I must be in the other tribe and thus "one of those people who think X is swinging".

so you are highly over focused on this game specifically whereas the definition of the word swinging has nothing to do with this game.
This game only matters to the question of whether there is swinging in this game,
Which is a completely different argument from the one we are having about the definition of swinging

3. you are projecting (accusing me of what you are doing) very hard here.
You are doing Olympic gymnastics-level stretching to explain why this "technically not swinging" there is nothing at all weird or sexual about letting your buddy sit in the room with you and watch you fuck your wife in exchange for vice versa.
nope, completely ordinary behavior /sarcasm.

I doubt we have a discussion. You’re spreading out your opinion on this matter like it’s the holy grail of wisdom…
It’s exhibitionism, but never swinging. Because swinging consists of any form of outsider INCLUDED into the action. But derived from the length of your texts, you are easily offended by each and everything. Why didn’t you choose to leave the room for the scene in question?

 

[harem.king]

I doubt we have a discussion. You’re spreading out your opinion on this matter like it’s the holy grail of wisdom…
It’s exhibitionism, but never swinging. Because swinging consists of any form of outsider INCLUDED into the action. But derived from the length of your texts, you are easily offended by each and everything. Why didn’t you choose to leave the room for the scene in question?

Stop trying to psychoanalyze me and assuming what I did or didn't do in the game
assuming is the path towards becoming an ass.

So we are not having a civil discussion but instead I am "spreading my opinion"?
and you are doing what exactly? what do you call it when you type words directed towards me? asking me questions? its not a discussion? its not you sharing your opinion? what is it exactly?

Why didn’t you choose to leave the room for the scene in question?

I did leave the room. Because I am not into "technically not swinging".
I am still wanting to know what this fetish is called. Its not exhibitionism because you are not in public, you have two couples both in a private room.
Anyways, even if technically not swinging, they are still not my thing.

 

[Skep-tiker]

Stop trying to psychoanalyze me and assuming what I did or didn't do in the game
assuming is the path towards becoming an ass.

So we are not having a civil discussion but instead I am "spreading my opinion"?
and you are doing what exactly? what do you call it when you type words directed towards me? asking me questions? its not a discussion? its not you sharing your opinion? what is it exactly?

I did leave the room. Because I am not into "technically not swinging".
I am still wanting to know what this fetish is called. Its not exhibitionism because you are not in public, you have two couples both in a private room.
Anyways, even if technically not swinging, they are still not my thing.

Not psychoanalysing, just exercising my right of speech.

Exhibitionism is derived from exhibit, which means showing. Publicity isn’t a necessary component.

 

[Woodstock_1983]

Not psychoanalysing, just exercising my right of speech.

Exhibitionism is derived from exhibit, which means showing. Publicity isn’t a necessary component.

I looked it up and it's called same room sex. It's not Exhibitionism.

 

[Woodstock_1983]

On another note, does the MC ever finds out what his father was and why he has the powers he has?

 

[Tiur]

On another note, does the MC ever finds out what his father was and why he has the powers he has?

Not yet, but it's likely that it will be eventually revealed. The game's nowhere near the end, so there's still a lot of story space for it.

 

[Alandir]

Which makes this one of the very rare threads where everything IS actually fully honestly explicitly outlined.
Usually such things are hidden under the aegis of "technically it isn't NTR because"...
and then come all the NTR lawyer things like

> they hold you down while forcing you to watch as they rape your wife which means she is not consenting and therefore not NTR. so we won't mention any of that in the OP or the tags or anywhere else and any mention of cuckoldry in the thread will be deleted"
> She had a high bodycount before you met so therefore it is unreasonable to expect loyalty now that she is with you
> you cheat on her first so it does not count if she cheats on you back in revenge
> she only kissed you and you didn't fuck yet, therefore she isn't yours yet at the time where you see her fucking chad.
> your MC does not "true love" her so it does not count
> the MC enjoys her cheating and feels no jealously, so it does not count
etc etc etc

this makes it necessary to ALWAYS in every thread search the thread for NTR and read every single post on the subject
Because dev will hide it as much as they can in the description

I call BS. I have seen quite a number of ntr games on here and they have been quite open about containing ntr. Some games may have optional ntr and not advertise it since that's not the focus of the game, but if you go down an optional ntr route, you really have noone to blame but yourself.

What examples of games do you have that do what you claim? Putting time and effort into developing an ntr game and then trying to hide the ntr from potential players is quite a nonsense dev strategy.

What I have seen quite a bit is very nitpicky players crying about ntr for quite absurd reasons. "She kissed the other girl in a mff threesome! NTR!"

 

[Skep-tiker]

I call BS. I have seen quite a number of ntr games on here and they have been quite open about containing ntr. Some games may have optional ntr and not advertise it since that's not the focus of the game, but if you go down an optional ntr route, you really have noone to blame but yourself.

What examples of games do you have that do what you claim? Putting time and effort into developing an ntr game and then trying to hide the ntr from potential players is quite a nonsense dev strategy.

What I have seen quite a bit is very nitpicky players crying about ntr for quite absurd reasons. "She kissed the other girl in a mff threesome! NTR!"

Spoiler: Examples

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Just the first that came to my head. Not that I agree with the poster you quoted, but devs sneaking in NTR is a thing…

 

[Alandir]

Spoiler: Examples

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Just the first that came to my head. Not that I agree with the poster you quoted, but devs sneaking in NTR is a thing…

Hmm. I tend to avoid Daz games since they just look horrible to me, so that might be why I haven't seen it.
Though I wouldn't ever play a game called 'Dating my Daughter' anyway. And I would never expect a game with the words 'my wife' in the title to not be filled with boatloads of ntr.

 

[Vanderer]

Oh, for fuck sake, if you guys want a debate about NTR, especially about OTHER GAMES, could you have it in another thread, like in General or something?