Ren'Py The Fixer [v0.3.4.10] [Sam_Tail]

[hgffdh]

One thing I found weird and inconsistent is the allure stat.
-It is improved by many perks not all of them lewd
-Yet everyone treats high allure as if its cause Sammy is dressed like a slut

Prime example is bambi origin. I'm not sure why but when playing with it even friends ask why the properly dressed Sammy looks like a whore.

 

[Nutting The Rueful]

One thing I found weird and inconsistent is the allure stat.
-It is improved by many perks not all of them lewd
-Yet everyone treats high allure as if its cause Sammy is dressed like a slut

Prime example is bambi origin. I'm not sure why but when playing with it even friends ask why the properly dressed Sammy looks like a whore.

I think maybe Sam needs to tweak a bit on the allure conversations. Like 'look hot/attractive/sexy/cute'. Unless the idea is 'she's fuck-able'

 

[souldead341]

I think maybe Sam needs to tweak a bit on the allure conversations. Like 'look hot/attractive/sexy/cute'. Unless the idea is 'she's fuck-able'

Yeah, it seems like it should have a split in the stat, or adjust the formula to track both sides of the allure stat. One stat / side for being an innocent target (bambi origin, maybe low confidence) and the other for slutty clothing / reputation.

 

[hgffdh]

Other minor weird things that are more likely planned but unfinished than unplanned, although they seem easy to implement:
-Clothes transparency has no relation to allure. A seethrough dress gives no additional allure compared to an opaque one.
-Every dick is exactly the same size down to the millimeter.
-Nobody seems to bat an eye at Sammy changing looks in a day. "Oh, Sammy turned from a busty blonde into a flat as a board black redhead" is what every NPC thinks after Sammy visits the good doctor but doesnt even raise an eyebrow at.
-Showering makes Sammy dress into sleep clothes or casual ones or whatever which is usually annoying because I usually want Sammy to stay in her previous clothes instead. E.g. in school showering is usually done in between sport activities and you have to click several more times to switch to sports outfit again (or lose precious time to Sammy walking between locations to dress up).

Lore:

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[ChesseKun]

Other minor weird things that are more likely planned but unfinished than unplanned, although they seem easy to implement:
-Clothes transparency has no relation to allure. A seethrough dress gives no additional allure compared to an opaque one.
-Every dick is exactly the same size down to the millimeter.
-Nobody seems to bat an eye at Sammy changing looks in a day. "Oh, Sammy turned from a busty blonde into a flat as a board black redhead" is what every NPC thinks after Sammy visits the good doctor but doesnt even raise an eyebrow at.
-Showering makes Sammy dress into sleep clothes or casual ones or whatever which is usually annoying because I usually want Sammy to stay in her previous clothes instead. E.g. in school showering is usually done in between sport activities and you have to click several more times to switch to sports outfit again (or lose precious time to Sammy walking between locations to dress up).

Lore:

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-the clothes transparency thing is unfortunate.
-people not reacting to her changing is weird but there is no real way to make it work without it being ridiculous either so it is just something where you have to suspend your disbelief. now saying that her small breast size is flat as a board is just not true or you have never actually seen an actual flat board.
-the changing after-showing is indeed annoying so are the automatic showers, to be honest, I find it especially weird in combination with the dance troupe since she always showers before they had out but never applies makeup but the images actually have makeup support.

it's not a zombie apocalypse it was a plague. that killed most of anyone over 45 or 65 I think.
but there are food shortages mentioned especially since most of the more complex food industries are gone. the population has also been reduced drastically so not as many people to take care of.
and hores of children aren't around because this hasn't been going on that long your accident was like a few months ago at that time the plague was still going on while they are now in the recovery stage. and the reason why the children are taken away is so they can e taken care of properly. and competent staff can be an issue if so many people especially those in power are just gone takes a while to reform all that but the bonus is most of those corrupt old men are also gone.

 

[Sam_Tail]

snip

Answered most of your stuff on discord, just replying here so it doesn't look like I ignored all your questions

One thing I found weird and inconsistent is the allure stat.
-It is improved by many perks not all of them lewd
-Yet everyone treats high allure as if its cause Sammy is dressed like a slut

Prime example is bambi origin. I'm not sure why but when playing with it even friends ask why the properly dressed Sammy looks like a whore.

Yeah, allure stat doesn't really take into account some of the new mechanics. It will be fixed at some point soon.

Other minor weird things that are more likely planned but unfinished than unplanned, although they seem easy to implement:
-Clothes transparency has no relation to allure. A seethrough dress gives no additional allure compared to an opaque one.
-Every dick is exactly the same size down to the millimeter.
-Nobody seems to bat an eye at Sammy changing looks in a day. "Oh, Sammy turned from a busty blonde into a flat as a board black redhead" is what every NPC thinks after Sammy visits the good doctor but doesnt even raise an eyebrow at.
-Showering makes Sammy dress into sleep clothes or casual ones or whatever which is usually annoying because I usually want Sammy to stay in her previous clothes instead. E.g. in school showering is usually done in between sport activities and you have to click several more times to switch to sports outfit again (or lose precious time to Sammy walking between locations to dress up).

Lore:

Spoiler: Lore spoilers

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Transparency is a little tricky as its hard to tell with the multiple layers what is "slutty" and what is "fashionable". Unfortunately there is no way for me to check if nipples are on display or something like that so I will probably have to manually tell the clothes if they are too transparent then it should be considered slutty. A mesh shirt with a sports bra for example wouldn't raise too many eyebrows but a mesh shirt with a heart nipple bra would. But the game sees them both as the same thing.

Penis size is something that will probably stay. It makes the art a lot easier and it's just not something I care about.

The lack of comments with Sammys changed appearance is a necessary evil for the sake of gameplay. It would raise too many questions with every character in the game, reveal secrets that shouldn't be revealed or Sammy would have to "pretend" to be a different person from before and start all personal quests from scratch. There is just no acceptable way to include that sort of thing without breaking lore or gameplay. So I just pretend it doesn't exist or that she always looked that way.

Sammy redresses based on her location or the time. At home she dresses in home clothes because I want her walking around home in that set for events that are to come. It will be much more fun when Sammy is walking around home in knickers and a tee. For the other locations it's about the time. In the evening she wears her party clothes and in the day she wears daily clothes. No mater how she dresses, there will be some level of needing to redress he afterwards anyway, so I put her in whatever outfit will be more fun for gameplay.

On the food/logistical side of things, there is planned to be explanations for that and it has already been thought of. But it lacks porn/sex so it's not very high on the list of priorities.

As for children, well this is a porn game so I am not going to depict children in any context in the game. That is a road to being banned on most platforms. While yes, having children everywhere would be very fitting for the lore, that is just not a fight I am willing to have.

-the clothes transparency thing is unfortunate.
-people not reacting to her changing is weird but there is no real way to make it work without it being ridiculous either so it is just something where you have to suspend your disbelief. now saying that her small breast size is flat as a board is just not true or you have never actually seen an actual flat board.
-the changing after-showing is indeed annoying so are the automatic showers, to be honest, I find it especially weird in combination with the dance troupe since she always showers before they had out but never applies makeup but the images actually have makeup support.

it's not a zombie apocalypse it was a plague. that killed most of anyone over 45 or 65 I think.
but there are food shortages mentioned especially since most of the more complex food industries are gone. the population has also been reduced drastically so not as many people to take care of.
and hores of children aren't around because this hasn't been going on that long your accident was like a few months ago at that time the plague was still going on while they are now in the recovery stage. and the reason why the children are taken away is so they can e taken care of properly. and competent staff can be an issue if so many people especially those in power are just gone takes a while to reform all that but the bonus is most of those corrupt old men are also gone.

Yes it's a plague that killed almost everyone who is older or unhealthy (mostly so I don't need to draw old/fat people sex art variations). But there is a significant danger outside of the walls for reasons that haven't been explained yet. I wanted to have the zombie apocalypse vibe without actual zombies. There will come explanations eventually, and some stuff is hinted at with Jaylee conversations, but I wont say too much now as it's still subject to change.

 

[souldead341]

Sammy redresses based on her location or the time. At home she dresses in home clothes because I want her walking around home in that set for events that are to come. It will be much more fun when Sammy is walking around home in knickers and a tee. For the other locations it's about the time. In the evening she wears her party clothes and in the day she wears daily clothes. No mater how she dresses, there will be some level of needing to redress he afterwards anyway, so I put her in whatever outfit will be more fun for gameplay.

It might be nice to have it as an option, possibly depending on the time and location, to have other clothing sets as a choice. So if it's before school at home you could have it either default or give a choice to dress in school clothes, since (to me at least) it makes the most sense to have the clothing you're going to wear for most of the day immediately after the shower there to dress in right away, not a second set of clothing to just walk to another room and change again.

Similarly the school showers after gym could default to letting you wear casual clothing or workout clothing, since those are the 2 most likely to be worn after school in my playthroughs.

 

[Penitensary]

Question about perks, or more precisely how to get rid of them:

- I had a Male Start MC and a few weeks in picked the Gamine Origin, leading to the weird combo of the perks Whore... and Pure Virgin since she's never sold herself, leading to quite a shift in character. Maybe progressing Virgin to the point of Pure Virgin would autoremove Whore?

- Since Commando can be gained by wearing no underwear for four days, would it make sense to lose it if you start wearing underwear again for four days?

- Likewise, Smoker and Alcoholic could be gotten rid of by not smoking or drinking for a full month. Harder to do in the case of alcohol, just like in real life

And lastly, a question:

- I.... may be misremembering, but wasn't there a previous version somewhere where the MC didn't want to go around too naked at home because of her roommates? Because i haven't encountered it since.

 

[Sam_Tail]

It might be nice to have it as an option, possibly depending on the time and location, to have other clothing sets as a choice. So if it's before school at home you could have it either default or give a choice to dress in school clothes, since (to me at least) it makes the most sense to have the clothing you're going to wear for most of the day immediately after the shower there to dress in right away, not a second set of clothing to just walk to another room and change again.

Similarly the school showers after gym could default to letting you wear casual clothing or workout clothing, since those are the 2 most likely to be worn after school in my playthroughs.

Trying to leave the house before school while wearing your home clothes auto dresses you in your uniform (although I realise it doesn't work if you click on the bus icon, need to fix that). I put you in home clothes at home specifically for events around the house for when flatmates are in. So walking back to your room to change or just keeping that outfit on if you arent going out will be more interesting once the events are in.

Also after a shower in school, there is a greater chance you have just been working out so I do dress you in normal clothes. Either your day clothes if its day time or your evening clothes if it's late in the day.

Question about perks, or more precisely how to get rid of them:

- I had a Male Start MC and a few weeks in picked the Gamine Origin, leading to the weird combo of the perks Whore... and Pure Virgin since she's never sold herself, leading to quite a shift in character. Maybe progressing Virgin to the point of Pure Virgin would autoremove Whore?

- Since Commando can be gained by wearing no underwear for four days, would it make sense to lose it if you start wearing underwear again for four days?

- Likewise, Smoker and Alcoholic could be gotten rid of by not smoking or drinking for a full month. Harder to do in the case of alcohol, just like in real life

And lastly, a question:

- I.... may be misremembering, but wasn't there a previous version somewhere where the MC didn't want to go around too naked at home because of her roommates? Because i haven't encountered it since.

Some perk combinations can be a little iffy, but I don't want to restrict them too much. You picked the Gamine origin for your character which is basically a street whore origin. Removing the whore perk then kind of defeats the purpose of the origin.

Commando (and other perks) do need a way to be removed. I will be looking into this soon.

Smoke right now doesn't do anything and is only gained from the Gamine origin. I'll do something with it eventually. Alcoholic can be removed by not drinking, but Sammy is unlikely to ever do that so...

The clothing restrictions were removed because players didn't understand it so I had to heavily simplify it. Instead of restricting what you wear now, I made it so you can wear what you want and will instead trigger events that make you suffer the consequences of making bad choices. Not all events are in yet though so it might seem like you have free reign, but that will change.

 

[menatv]

Yeah, it's kinda amusing that one of my playthroughs I can be brave enough to have sexual situations with the customers/strangers and also sell my socks. But selling my underwear? Why, that's completely out of the question!

So I am guessing since I didn't have that Commando perk, I wasn't able to sell them.

 

[hgffdh]

Transparency is a little tricky as its hard to tell with the multiple layers what is "slutty" and what is "fashionable". Unfortunately there is no way for me to check if nipples are on display or something like that so I will probably have to manually tell the clothes if they are too transparent then it should be considered slutty. A mesh shirt with a sports bra for example wouldn't raise too many eyebrows but a mesh shirt with a heart nipple bra would. But the game sees them both as the same thing.

Clothes layering and visibility of bodyparts has already been done in other games, e.g. Newlife. Clothes have metadata attached to tell if they cover bodyparts and what sort of air they give off (cute-slutty). You'd have to change it of course, your clothes usually consist of two different parts each with individual color and transparency, but I dont see why it'd be hard. If none worn clothing covers some part fully then its visible, two layers covering at 50% make it 25% visible so only 25% allure (if its linear, you could make it exponential or whatever). Underwear is like a bodypart, affected by layers above as well.

As a single allure stat is clunky, Newlife has multiple other stats like cuteness and whatnot. That is, I see why its hard to translate clothes into stats but I dont see why you see issue with transparency, imho the problem here is with how you decide to organize stats. Institute staff mentions planned quests that rely on Sammy adopting some sort of persona, I'd go with stats based on those, but you could also use the ones based on starts (sporty-nerd-motherly-etc). Cat lingerie set would cover nipples and genitals, give bonus cuteness and nerdness, zero bimbo and negative professionalism if they're visible. Nipples themselves would give bonus bimbo and negative everything else. Transparency is just a multiplier, the least hard part of it.

 

[Sam_Tail]

Yeah, it's kinda amusing that one of my playthroughs I can be brave enough to have sexual situations with the customers/strangers and also sell my socks. But selling my underwear? Why, that's completely out of the question!

So I am guessing since I didn't have that Commando perk, I wasn't able to sell them.

If you had the commando perk then you would have no pants to sell. But it mostly comes down to your confidence if you agree to sell because Sammy knows she is in a skirt and will be working flashing her arse.

Clothes layering and visibility of bodyparts has already been done in other games, e.g. Newlife. Clothes have metadata attached to tell if they cover bodyparts and what sort of air they give off (cute-slutty). You'd have to change it of course, your clothes usually consist of two different parts each with individual color and transparency, but I dont see why it'd be hard. If none worn clothing covers some part fully then its visible, two layers covering at 50% make it 25% visible so only 25% allure (if its linear, you could make it exponential or whatever). Underwear is like a bodypart, affected by layers above as well.

As a single allure stat is clunky, Newlife has multiple other stats like cuteness and whatnot. That is, I see why its hard to translate clothes into stats but I dont see why you see issue with transparency, imho the problem here is with how you decide to organize stats. Institute staff mentions planned quests that rely on Sammy adopting some sort of persona, I'd go with stats based on those, but you could also use the ones based on starts (sporty-nerd-motherly-etc). Cat lingerie set would cover nipples and genitals, give bonus cuteness and nerdness, zero bimbo and negative professionalism if they're visible. Nipples themselves would give bonus bimbo and negative everything else. Transparency is just a multiplier, the least hard part of it.

What you mention is manually doing it. I can't just raytrace and check if nipples are showing. I also can't just check if they are transparent because some clothes have transparent sleeves or other bits that do not expose the player. So I have to add in for every piece of clothing weather making that part transparent will reveal Sammys breasts.

Also funny you mention newlife because it is an example of what I am aiming to avoid. It has so many stats to the point that most of them become pointless and seriously under utilised. It also increases the workload when you have to factor in 30 stats as opposed to 5 while giving pretty much the same result. There are solutions for fixing the allure stats that do not involve throwing in more stats, I just didn't have time to do it for this release.

 

[Bawunga]

Also after a shower in school, there is a greater chance you have just been working out so I do dress you in normal clothes. Either your day clothes if its day time or your evening clothes if it's late in the day.

Doesn't it make more sense that you'd be going home wearing your uniform to get changed there? The current implication would be that Sammy brought all of her normal wear with her to school (which with the magic wardrobe system she basically did but let's ignore that), although I guess she could have just left some spare clothes in her school locker too. Still, don't know how cool a school would be about students wearing non-uniform clothes on site, you'd think there'd be a policy against that.

Fantastic game by the way!

 

[ForGotMyName]

You know, as much as I like the new bus events, I do miss being able to walk were you want to go. I hope that returns in a later build.

 

[Sam_Tail]

Doesn't it make more sense that you'd be going home wearing your uniform to get changed there? The current implication would be that Sammy brought all of her normal wear with her to school (which with the magic wardrobe system she basically did but let's ignore that), although I guess she could have just left some spare clothes in her school locker too. Still, don't know how cool a school would be about students wearing non-uniform clothes on site, you'd think there'd be a policy against that.

Fantastic game by the way!

Sacrifices for gameplay. So Sammy has a magic wardrobe that seems to upload all her clothes the the cloud.

Actually at one point I did consider copying an idea from a game called "the e-wardrobe" where your clothes are just schematics and whatever you wanted was printed for you right as you wanted them. But that was far too scifi so dropped the idea and just hand wave away the fact Sammy seems to have all her clothes everywhere.

You know, as much as I like the new bus events, I do miss being able to walk were you want to go. I hope that returns in a later build.

It will return, I just didn't have time to add that in for the current build.

 

[FantaSee]

Keep up the good work! Love the game so far!

 

[Penitensary]

Some perk combinations can be a little iffy, but I don't want to restrict them too much. You picked the Gamine origin for your character which is basically a street whore origin. Removing the whore perk then kind of defeats the purpose of the origin.

Commando (and other perks) do need a way to be removed. I will be looking into this soon.

Smoke right now doesn't do anything and is only gained from the Gamine origin. I'll do something with it eventually. Alcoholic can be removed by not drinking, but Sammy is unlikely to ever do that so...

The clothing restrictions were removed because players didn't understand it so I had to heavily simplify it. Instead of restricting what you wear now, I made it so you can wear what you want and will instead trigger events that make you suffer the consequences of making bad choices. Not all events are in yet though so it might seem like you have free reign, but that will change.

Yeah, i picked Gamine as a test, and the sudden 180 in personality made it a good example, really. Will the clothing restrictions make their way back into the game as a toggleable option? I kind of liked having them linked with Sammy's confidence, though i can understand it's not for everyone. Didn't know Alcoholic could be lost, must have missed her grabbing a beer from her purse every once in a while i guess.

Speaking of making a return, looking forward to giving Sammy the option to walk everywhere again. I did notice you expanded the Highway Overpass area though (it's a valid location for Drunk Sammy to get off at the wrong stop in), so i'm looking forward to seeing that come back in the game again. Haven't managed to get off at the wrong stop at the mall yet though

If you had the commando perk then you would have no pants to sell. But it mostly comes down to your confidence if you agree to sell because Sammy knows she is in a skirt and will be working flashing her arse.

Small heads up here, you can actually wear underwear at work with the Commando perk. You'd just have to buy them when the game gives you the option to and if you do, you go straight into your shifts wearing underwear. It's the only method to get around the perk that i could see.

 

[hgffdh]

What you mention is manually doing it.

I thought manually doing it is what you've done with the factory mission where you get one outfit that you cant change.

I can't just raytrace and check if nipples are showing. I also can't just check if they are transparent because some clothes have transparent sleeves or other bits that do not expose the player. So I have to add in for every piece of clothing weather making that part transparent will reveal Sammys breasts.

You technically can do that if you a) make Sammy's body layer completely transparent b) calculate opacity of the resulting image at required areas. You'd only need to have different predefined areas for different breast sizes and bra/no bra. You will also be unable to account for areola slips, lewd underwear etc.

Also funny you mention newlife because it is an example of what I am aiming to avoid. It has so many stats to the point that most of them become pointless and seriously under utilised. It also increases the workload when you have to factor in 30 stats as opposed to 5 while giving pretty much the same result. There are solutions for fixing the allure stats that do not involve throwing in more stats, I just didn't have time to do it for this release.

I think the main problem of Newlife (in relation to clothes) is not that there are too many stats. Its that a) there are actually too few stats and too many flags, lots of flags could just be replaced with one stat of different values b) events usually care only for 1-2 stat thresholds so once you minmaxed outfit for them theres no point fiddling with clothes and you wear that one outfit entire game. The other problems are offtopic.

Anyway I was just trying to give advice, sorry if my expectations were divorced from your actual plans.

 

[vrtrtr]

Anyway I was just trying to give advice, sorry if my expectations were divorced from your actual plans.

Not to be that guy, but why exactly are you giving advice? Where's your successfully released porn game?
Maybe I'm being unkind and you just meant feedback, which a consumer should always be free to give.

 

[fakehb]

Not to be that guy, but why exactly are you giving advice? Where's your successfully released porn game?

And why would he need one? Would it make him more or less correct? That's fallacious thinking.

As a programmer and a developer, but not an H-game dev or someone with a lot of experience in Renpy, my intuition nonetheless is that while Sam_Tail is correct about some specific examples of what doesn't work well, hgffdh is correct in principle. It is of course possible to come up with an approximation that minimizes (but doesn't reduce to zero) manual work.

For example, have a list of a dozen or so points that are different places on the body. Each point has a rating regarding how important it is to cover to maintain modesty. Each garment has metadata that says which points it covers, and whether that coverage is affected by transparency. You have a function to calculate the coverage at each point, and a function to determine overall slutiness (eg. the minimum of the average of the various points modified by weight, and just the average of the points that cover privates).

That doesn't need to be the exact implementation. You could define regions rather than points. but even if an optimal solution is practically impossible, it is certainly possible to have systems in place where you only need to add a bit of data to clothing items to facilitate a good enough approximation.