VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[tslojr]

So the MC needs a 'I Got Involved With Templars and All I Got Was This Crappy HQ' T-shirt?

That's just not fair, Mavi. He's also very likely gotten crippling trust issues since just about everybody he's ever loved has been lying to him his entire life.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

iirc Linnae tell MC that there are many headquarters with soldiers respectively, distributed around the world.

Linnae said there were only a few hundred Templars and many of them don't fight. Not sure how they will win a war against millions.

linnae "The truth is, we're usually not more than a few hundred. Scattered all over the world. And outside of it. How are we supposed to save every innocent?"
mc "A few hundred? For real? I thought you had to be thousands, at least."

 

[HornyyPussy]

Linnae said there were only a few hundred Templars and many of them don't fight. Not sure how they will win a war against millions.

linnae "The truth is, we're usually not more than a few hundred. Scattered all over the world. And outside of it. How are we supposed to save every innocent?"
mc "A few hundred? For real? I thought you had to be thousands, at least."

Medb said they won't invade earth since they would be fighting the whole of humanity and they can't win that so I guess Earth is safe at least?

Or am I remembering that wrong?

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Medb said they won't invade earth since they would be fighting the whole of humanity and they can't win that so I guess Earth is safe at least?

Or am I remembering that wrong?

Medb did say that and there is the question, is the war against the Templars, or the Templars and Neverwhere, or all of humanity?

 

[HornyyPussy]

Medb did say that and there is the question, is the war against the Templars, or the Templars and Neverwhere, or all of humanity?

Neverwhere at best I think, as she said, they would lose a war against humanity, they just don't have the numbers.

 

[ImSenjou]

This threat to reveal Neverwhere to all of humanity seems pretty stupid, wouldn't that make humans the enemy of all 'races' and probably even the gods?

If there is another human faction, which it seems there is, they would probably stand against the Templars and stop them.

Would the Templars, I mean most of them, be willing to risk all of humanity just to try to keep their organization going for a few more years? I know they're jerks, but I believe some of them believe they're the good guys.

 

[HornyyPussy]

This threat to reveal Neverwhere to all of humanity seems pretty stupid, wouldn't that make humans the enemy of all 'races' and probably even the gods?

If there is another human faction, which it seems there is, they would probably stand against the Templars and stop them.

Would the Templars, I mean most of them, be willing to risk all of humanity just to try to keep their organization going for a few more years? I know they're jerks, but I believe some of them believe they're the good guys.

As stated , neither side wants a war spilling over to Earth. And lets not write of all the Templars as bad guys. Kaija and Linnae are good and that other woman on the council seems like she has her head screwed on straight as well.

 

[Dessolos]

All I know Templars are going to burn on my main saves because justice for Fin ( unless she was killed by demons or someone else and is using Templars to spark a war)

 

[HornyyPussy]

All I know Templars are going to burn on my main saves because justice for Fin ( unless she was killed by demons or someone else and is using Templars to spark a war)

Yeah, it was most likely the same people that tried to kidnap the MC that killed Finn. They seem to have a stake in igniting a war......

 

[nitkonikic]

As stated , neither side wants a war spilling over to Earth. And lets not write of all the Templars as bad guys. Kaija and Linnae are good and that other woman on the council seems like she has her head screwed on straight as well.

I would disagree on point of Kaija (a person willing to sleep with another person and lie to that person for years it's honest relationship to make their job easy is not a good person in my eyes, no matter how they try to justify it) and we are yet to see Linnae's agenda, but overall, agreed.

My personal opinion is definitely "fuck Templars", but I do believe there are a lot of good guys there. Hell, organization as such is definitely good! Their methods aside, such organization is needed.

Exposing Neverwhere to the world would be insanity, for both sides.
Obviously, we don't know what is in Neverwhere that made some people rich (Linnae conversation), but imagine world in large learning about it? Definitely potential for large wars there. Alfar, as Medb pointed out, would be fucked as well. Few million vs few billion.

Now that that piece of shit father is back, let's see what they do and how they proceed. Their leadership is full, certainly they'll make some reasonable decisions.

Yeah, it was most likely the same people that tried to kidnap the MC that killed Finn. They seem to have a stake in igniting a war......

Yep, my thoughts as well. DAMN IT MC, MEDB TOLD IT WASN'T THEM THAT TRIED TO KIDNAP YOU, BRING IT UP WITH TEMPLARS FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

 

[PaxHadrian17]

Regarding human technology and Alfar magic:

There is significant 'lore' or background information that we don't have regarding how technology and magic work across all the worlds linked by Neverwhere.

The Alfar include powerful magic users but does their 'center' of magic - Alfheimr - limit the use of technology and other non-elemental forms of magic in that world?

I say non-elemental since the two queens are masters of fire, earth, air and water.

We saw a damas obscured by a powerful illusion spell during the Neverwhere attack on Medb. Is this form of magic someone else's specialty, where there are humans and Alfar who can use those spells but the true masters are the dark elves or some other species?

Are all forms of magic and technology tempered/buffered to some degree by some world effect of Neverwhere?

Does each world act as a center for their form of technology/magic, which works at 100% while other forms of tech/magic are diluted, with some kind of world dampening effect - the more powerful the non-native effect, the more diluted the power of that effect?

I can't see a human nuclear weapon working at all in Alfheimr and this type of effect would explain why a human faction has not just rolled into Neverwhere and Alfheimr taking them over and launching invasions of other worlds for resources/treasure.

I think a lot of this will be cleared up in season 2 as this knowledge becomes more relevant for the MC to ask about and for that lore/background information to be revealed.

Cheers!!

 

[nitkonikic]

Can I go full conspiracy mode?
There are 2 traitors, 1 among each of Templars and Alfar.
Templar traitor: Linnae, Alfar traitor: Mab

Why would they betray their nation and what is their goal? No idea.

My reasoning?
It has been 5 chapters and other than obvious idiots such as that council guy that wanted to start a war, we've seen no one that might be a "villain".
So unless it's the ice cream guy from date with Elea, my money's on Linnae and Mab. Highly positioned within their organization/nation, don't like things as they currently are, and are "passive" in background. Passive on surface stinks to me.

Linnae is way too honest and nice. A Templar without hidden agenda? Yeah, right.

Mab (on kill Finn route) has cryptic meeting with MC. Hell, wouldn't be surprised if she was the one to actually have done the killing on spare Finn route.

 

[Elduriel]

Can I go full conspiracy mode?
There are 2 traitors, 1 among each of Templars and Alfar.
Templar traitor: Linnae, Alfar traitor: Mab

Why would they betray their nation and what is their goal? No idea.

My reasoning?
It has been 5 chapters and other than obvious idiots such as that council guy that wanted to start a war, we've seen no one that might be a "villain".
So unless it's the ice cream guy from date with Elea, my money's on Linnae and Mab. Highly positioned within their organization/nation, don't like things as they currently are, and are "passive" in background. Passive on surface stinks to me.

Linnae is way too honest and nice. A Templar without hidden agenda? Yeah, right.

Mab (on kill Finn route) has cryptic meeting with MC. Hell, wouldn't be surprised if she was the one to actually have done the killing on spare Finn route.

I could see all of that to be true honestly, even if it isn't Linnae there could be someone on the council... but she is not a bad candidate if there is going to be a traitor. It's obviously not the guy whose name I can't remember, he would be way too obvious. As for Mab, I'm not too sure. Plus we haven't met a whole lot of them so far.

 

[Tremonia]

Can I go full conspiracy mode?

Anytime. That's better as all the dumb waifu wars like in other threads.

There are 2 traitors, 1 among each of Templars and Alfar.
Templar traitor: Linnae, Alfar traitor: Mab

Mah. I can't see this. At first: Mab is one of the Queens since over a millenia. She has nearly nothing to win and everything to lose. As long as she didn't lost her mind she wouldn't betray her people. And Linnae... I just can't see it. She's a Templar through and through. Sure, she has her issues with some things and how they're dealt with but her oath means not less as it means for Kaija.

I think there're traitor on both sides, but not them. At the Templars I can think of William Nolan, but he's very obvious because of the way he acts. Could be red herring. At the Álfars I can't think of one of them. We only know Medb, Oberon, Mab, and Ailill. Medb never. It wouldn't fit to her personality. The other ones we don't know enough to make any conclusions. My guesses are the traitors are in the lower ranks on both sides. Steroid-Kevin for example is stupid enough to follow the wrong people.

I think the biggest problem is the third party we don't know yet. My bet's on the Vatican, the "Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith" to be precise.

 

[Elduriel]

I think the biggest problem is the third party we don't know yet. My bet's on the Vatican, the "Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith" to be precise.

It's obviously the CIA, they have the track record

 

[nitkonikic]

I think there're traitor on both sides, but not them. At the Templars I can think of William Nolan, but he's very obvious because of the way he acts. Could be red herring. At the Álfars I can't think of one of them. We only know Medb, Oberon, Mab, and Ailill. Medb never. It wouldn't fit to her personality. The other ones we don't know enough to make any conclusions.

That's precisely why I'm flagging Linnae and Mab.

Nolan is an idiot, a fool and incompetent. To be a traitor as well? Surely it can't be THAT obvious.
On Alfar side, there is no one.

So if all of a sudden we get introduced to new, competent people from both factions, they would be candidates #1.
Granted, all of this could be just bs and there actually aren't any traitors and it's all work of 3rd faction.

If that happens, I'm still going with Fiona's family. Again, they are, so far, the only mentioned 3rd side. Very powerful and cruel as far as we know. And Fiona knows about Neverwhere, goes without saying so would they.
"Powerful people killing those who might expose Neverwhere" - Wouldn't exclude them from list of those people.

 

[nitkonikic]

Apologies for double posting, but bit more on why it might be Linnae.

She left her family, left her life, all for Templars.

Only for those templars to turn into what they currently are. Bunch of headless chicken, politicians arguing over everything.
They try to ORDER their best soldiers to sleep with men they don't like. They are a sham and insult to order she joined and was part of for years.

Hell, she can even play that card with MC in the end. "See what they did! They sent you a woman to seduce you so they can control your life. Organization under me would never do that. Want proof? Ask your parents, I was against it in the first place".

Yes. She is a templar through and through. But not a Templar of current order.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Apologies for double posting, but bit more on why it might be Linnae.

She left her family, left her life, all for Templars.

Only for those templars to turn into what they currently are. Bunch of headless chicken, politicians arguing over everything.
They try to ORDER their best soldiers to sleep with men they don't like. They are a sham and insult to order she joined and was part of for years.

Hell, she can even play that card with MC in the end. "See what they did! They sent you a woman to seduce you so they can control your life. Organization under me would never do that. Want proof? Ask your parents, I was against it in the first place".

Yes. She is a templar through and through. But not a Templar of current order.

I suggested Linnae before. She was happy to give up her leadership role far too easily. She is disillusioned and happy to stir up trouble in the Templar ranks and leadership. On the hand, would she risk a lot of death and destruction just to reset the Templars?

 

[xapican]

Yep, my thoughts as well. DAMN IT MC, MEDB TOLD IT WASN'T THEM THAT TRIED TO KIDNAP YOU, BRING IT UP WITH TEMPLARS FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

He already did, he told Kaija and his father, about it at least on the no fire path.
Intersting is the dialoge of Nightingale when the go to Alfarheimr, seems that she is an orphan as well, and don't trust the templars.
still not shure about the whole "trophy hunter" thing.

 

[nitkonikic]

I suggested Linnae before. She was happy to give up her leadership role far too easily. She is disillusioned and happy to stir up trouble in the Templar ranks and leadership. On the hand, would she risk a lot of death and destruction just to reset the Templars?

Can't make omelette without first breaking few eggs.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's only 3rd party, but if it turns out it is Linnae, there are definitely more than a few reasons why she might do it.
Hell, good reasons!

And what would be funniest, it would also mean she was honestly good to MC because she finds him wronged by her organization, and not for any agenda.

Would be nice conflict for MC too. The one honest person is the person he has to stop because ends don't justify the means, and war approach would sacrifice thousands for potential improvement.

(I will also shamelessly plug Ash and Sand trilogy books by Richard Nell where MC does unspeakable horrors and sacrifices thousands, all to build better future for his people)