VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[Pixillin']

If y'all didn't do the full Finn / Medb path you're missing out - on information and on (for me) the best Li in the game to this point. The crazy goes away really quickly if you don't act like a dick - she was mainly just showing off I think. She'd been raised to hate Templars and (after 200 years or so) she finally got to show off her combat skills, against a Templar and in front of mom and dad no less.

Second, you don't seem to see the value in crazy and that is sad. I mean, especially in games, crazy keeps things spicy. CeCe in Leap of Faith, Luna in the DeLuca family, the outlander girls in Desert Stalker - even the occasionally crazy but hides it well like Mona in Bare Witness who is a shy girl who likes books and D&D until MC is in trouble and then she runs over the mafia lookout dude with her car, grabs her bat out of the trunk, tells you to grab his gun and heads inside.

 

[motseer]

Second, you don't seem to see the value in crazy...

That's what they all say...

 

[Pixillin']

I also think that MC's parents / Kajia / the Templars are still lying. I don't think Kajia was there as a bodyguard, more of a monitor. I think they were trying to keep you out of action so you didn't ... wake up? Something like that. MC's powers seem to have started showing up right after the attempted assassination. Suddenly he could resist succubi, and see through cloaking spells - even before he found the sword. When Kajia said that while she was on her way she was praying that she wasn't too late - and I assumed she meant too late to save MC but maybe not, maybe too late to stop him from shedding blood. I mean the whole setup (the girlfriend who is also his minder, the safe boring job in insurance) could have been crafted to keep his life pretty dull and uneventful. And when the elf queen meets you she looks at MC's sister and says something about wasted potential. Maybe they're not your parents at all, they were just trying to raise you and make sure your lives were normal and dull so that you didn't find out what you really were/are) ? Because MC is not a normal human and apparently Jessica isn't either.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see where we go next because so far - none of the Lis seem terribly popular. Most have some fans but there doesn't seem to be anyone with a huge fan base, nor do most people seem interested in being peacemakers. Some hate the Templars (raises hand), some hate the Alfar, some hate both but I don't see a lot of people going ... "they're both great, if only I can convince everyone to get along."

 

[Maviarab]

I also think that MC's parents / Kajia / the Templars are still lying. I don't think Kajia was there as a bodyguard, more of a monitor. I think they were trying to keep you out of action so you didn't ... wake up? Something like that. MC's powers seem to have started showing up right after the attempted assassination. Suddenly he could resist succubi, and see through cloaking spells - even before he found the sword.

And when the elf queen meets you she looks at MC's sister and says something about wasted potential. Maybe they're not your parents at all, they were just trying to raise you and make sure your lives were normal and dull so that you didn't find out what you really were/are)

Fair points indeed and could be right....

Because MC is not a normal human

Very obviously....

apparently Jessica isn't either.

Suppositiion only in this thread based off a throwaway comment which could actually equally mean just the opposite. Really getting tired of having to explain this (especially when so far, as seen, Jessica has shown zero aptitude for anything, so the actual in-game proof is the opposite of what people just blindly assume and jump to conclusions with over Mab's comment). Will also add to this, Mab is not error proof, if on the kill Finn route, Mab is quite surprised you genuinly know nothing about the templars when she 'questions' you...the dangers of blind assumption.

but I don't see a lot of people going ... "they're both great, if only I can convince everyone to get along."

Because we've known since day 1 there are 4 LI's and that's that and no one will be 'getting along' as you put it in AVN terms. No point in discussing that or is just ain't going to happen. Also, they are all (currently) very removed from each other and do not know each other.

 

[xapican]

Because MC is not a normal human and apparently Jessica isn't either.

all good points you raised, how his "Helmetness" said.
MC and Jessicas powers, could also come from their Bloodline.
Medb s "brother" who was a Templar and was burnt by the Humans during the Templar trials.
Lived long enough to absorb the nature magic of "Alfheimr" as Finnabair explained to the MC, the affinity to Medb, could come from his Bloodline, MC Dad has also that potential dormant, he could resist for a week Mab s Mindpower, The Callisters are from generations Templars.
That could be a possible explanation.
MC has no superpowers, in this theory but he has a better disposition to master magic hence to resist as a normal human.

 

[Pixillin']

MC has no superpowers, in this theory but he has a better disposition to master magic hence to resist as a normal human.

Well he can't fly or anything, but when he saw through the cloak - I think it was Kajia who said that people can't do that, only a few of the most practiced human magic users are able to do it and that's after considerable preparation. MC did it passively, without trying or knowing what he was doing (plus the thing with the succubus that impressed Kari) - so presumably he has a huge amount of potential if he were to actually learn and practice.

 

[Dessolos]

Was she though? The wanting to kill my MC a few times sort of turned me off. A bit too much crazy for me.

That's what my thoughts were at first as well and I wanted to kill her my first time but my gut told me it wasn't a good idea. But idk with how they got to know each other over 2 weeks or however long it was. It felt like to me the MC changed Fin for the better almost like she was a completely different person compared to the start of the update. It got to the point she become very likeable and would of been my favorite LI out of almost any game I think. She probably still be a tad crazy when it comes to protecting her people or what what she cares for I think.

 

[TrixRabbit]

That's what my thoughts were at first as well and I wanted to kill her my first time but my gut told me it wasn't a good idea. But idk with how they got to know each other over 2 weeks or however long it was. It felt like to me the MC changed Fin for the better almost like she was a completely different person compared to the start of the update. It got to the point she become very likeable and would of been my favorite LI out of almost any game I think. She probably still be a tad crazy when it comes to protecting her people or what what she cares for I think.

1 week there = 1 day in the human world so he was there for 7 weeks? 10 weeks? Something like that. There are a few frames that say something like ‘as the weeks passed MC spent his days training with Finnabair and his evenings learning about history and lore with Medb’ so it wasn’t a short visit, there just wasn’t any point in having us play through dozens of identical days.

 

[Dessolos]

1 week there = 1 day in the human world so he was there for 7 weeks? 10 weeks? Something like that. There are a few frames that say something like ‘as the weeks passed MC spent his days training with Finnabair and his evenings learning about history and lore with Medb’ so it wasn’t a short visit, there just wasn’t any point in having us play through dozens of identical days.

thanks yeah I knew 1 day was a week but forgot how many Earth days we were there haha.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

That's what my thoughts were at first as well and I wanted to kill her my first time but my gut told me it wasn't a good idea. But idk with how they got to know each other over 2 weeks or however long it was. It felt like to me the MC changed Fin for the better almost like she was a completely different person compared to the start of the update. It got to the point she become very likeable and would of been my favorite LI out of almost any game I think. She probably still be a tad crazy when it comes to protecting her people or what what she cares for I think.

Finn was nice, I liked her and I didn't want to see her harmed. I didn't like killing her at all the couple of times I did that path. I love blondes so I considered her hot. I'm just old, I've had plenty of female drama, I still do (got a malicious ex-wife and 5 daughters), so I tend to shy away from crazy and I don't think Finn was an angel, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Probably why I love Elea so much. Nice girl, she has a few cool things going on like the car and her hobby. She is calm, supportive, helpful, sexy and NOT crazy. Same for Fiona. I haven't seen enough of Medb to say if she has a crazy streak like her daughter yet. I'm going with no for Medb, those icy veins will melt under my loving attention.
I wont mention the other LI as she has been done to death.

 

[Jack Nippleson]

That's what my thoughts were at first as well and I wanted to kill her my first time but my gut told me it wasn't a good idea. But idk with how they got to know each other over 2 weeks or however long it was. It felt like to me the MC changed Fin for the better almost like she was a completely different person compared to the start of the update. It got to the point she become very likeable and would of been my favorite LI out of almost any game I think. She probably still be a tad crazy when it comes to protecting her people or what what she cares for I think.

I never held hers or her mothers attitude against them. Holding a separate species accountable to human standards is as unfair as them holding a human to theirs.
When it comes to Kaija/Parents these are people the MC grew up with, learning from, trusting before they broke it whereas the alfar and the MC are feeling each other out for the first time. Respect is a two way street so I wasn't at all surprised by their response especially for a race that has been able to watch mankind make mistake after mistake for centuries. I don't think they're crazy I think they are aggressively cautious.
In the end it doesn't matter if you're human, alfar, demon, angel, fae, nymph and everything else in between while we may be capabale of change like Finn our flaw is we will always think that our opinions are always right no matter how askew they may or may not be.

 

[Pixillin']

thanks yeah I knew 1 day was a week but forgot how many Earth days we were there haha.

At any rate, MC should be going back with his magic enhanced, in much better physical shape, much better trained, and much more knowledgable - whatever he does next. He basically just did boot camp in a magical land where just being there enhances you in every way. And had a chat with the Lady of the Lake.

 

[Pixillin']

I never held hers or her mothers attitude against them. Holding a separate species accountable to human standards is as unfair as them holding a human to theirs.
When it comes to Kaija/Parents these are people the MC grew up with, learning from, trusting before they broke it whereas the alfar and the MC are feeling each other out for the first time. Respect is a two way street so I wasn't at all surprised by their response especially for a race that has been able to watch mankind make mistake after mistake for centuries. I don't think they're crazy I think they are aggressively cautious.
In the end it doesn't matter if you're human, alfar, demon, angel, fae, nymph and everything else in between while we may be capabale of change like Finn our flaw is we will always think that our opinions are always right no matter how askew they may or may not be.

Yeah I think having Finn attack you was necessary to the development of that part of the story. According to the Alfar humans (and especially Templars) are vile, bloodthirsty, and ruthless - fully prepared to kill the defenseless to achieve their aims. Their most likely reaction to MC would have been to kill him or at least take him back to where he came in and tell him not to return, but when he spared Finn - he shattered their stereotypes and earned a life debt which forced them to at least give him a chance. Finn starts out pretty icy but if you ignore the "life debt" thing and treat her as a person, even as a superior in some ways (because she definitely knows more about the Alfar than you do for a start) she softens pretty quickly. It's obviously not enough to change their minds about humans or the Templars (I wouldn't try to change their minds about that anyway) but it is enough that they consider you a friend. By the end Finn is falling for you, Medb is talking to you about things she's never talked to anybody about (like her brother) and even the King is somewhat impressed by you. But if Finn hadn't fought you, and you hadn't spared her, none of that is possible. You don't get the foot in the door that leads to all the good things.

 

[Pixillin']

Having said all of that, I wish that it had been Finns father who died. That would have been tragic, Finn and Medb would have both been sad and angry and MC probably would have to react but it would be the same reaction as now - since Finn was my favorite Li by quite a lot. If it's Finn's father I can empathise with her and go look for answers (and probably still take revenge) but it being Finn burns all bridges with the Templars for me - unless someone can prove to me that they weren't involved - I'm ready to take heads until I find out who did it and then probably take some more heads just to make a point. Finn's death blocks any path to peace between the Alfar + me and the Templars.

 

[xapican]

So...just, all the casualities on the Templar side are justified ?
all the Templars who were killed in useless skirmishes with the Alfar
and I'm talking about the centurys on going, tense relationship between Alfars and Humans, since the expedition of Ponce de Leon, which was the drop which brought the glass to overflow.
In this sidelong debatte I didn't even read a single line about why Kaija is so commited to the cause, as the few who are neutral to Kaija suspect, that she is probaly seeking the responsibles for the dead of her parents and Grandfather.

 

[Elduriel]

Having said all of that, I wish that it had been Finns father who died. That would have been tragic, Finn and Medb would have both been sad and angry and MC probably would have to react but it would be the same reaction as now - since Finn was my favorite Li by quite a lot. If it's Finn's father I can empathise with her and go look for answers (and probably still take revenge) but it being Finn burns all bridges with the Templars for me - unless someone can prove to me that they weren't involved - I'm ready to take heads until I find out who did it and then probably take some more heads just to make a point. Finn's death blocks any path to peace between the Alfar + me and the Templars.

you're jumping to conclusions very quickly. There's a very high chance that the murder of Finn was orchestrated by the third party we know little of to sow further conflict between the templars and elves. The templars have very little motivation to go straight for murder just out of the blue especially when they know the son of the grandmaster is with the elves at the time. It would be an incredibly stupid move given the situation.

 

[Pixillin']

So...just, all the casualities on the Templar side are justified ?
all the Templars who were killed in useless skirmishes with the Alfar
and I'm talking about the centurys on going, tense relationship between Alfars and Humans, since the expedition of Ponce de Leon, which was the drop which brought the glass to overflow.
In this sidelong debatte I didn't even read a single line about why Kaija is so commited to the cause, as the few who are neutral to Kaija suspect, that she is probaly seeking the responsibles for the dead of her parents and Grandfather.

You don't understand - it is a mostly emotional reaction - the same you'd get from some people if the Aflars killed Kajia. If there was a single templar involved in Finn's murder, in any way. I'll bring down the entire organization just as a tribute to Finn. Ideally I'd also rebuilt it, with the help of Medb, Kari and Fionna maybe - so there is some type of shield and keep some Alfar stationed there to help ensure peace - because they'd know exactly what the Templars were up to. I'd also make it public to improve recruitment and public cooperation. But not one of the current members would be included.

Edit: That's why I started the last post the way I did. If it was Finn's father I'd still be upset but it wouldn't be as personal. It's obviously not my story to tell but that's how I feel about the story at this point (there is also a good chance that I have no Li in this story. The only one still in the running is Fionna and -- she'd be a distant second to Finn.

 

[Maviarab]

You don't understand - it is a mostly emotional reaction - the same you'd get from some people if the Aflars killed Kajia. If there was a single templar involved in Finn's murder, in any way. I'll bring down the entire organization just as a tribute to Finn. Ideally I'd also rebuilt it, with the help of Medb, Kari and Fionna maybe - so there is some type of shield and keep some Alfar stationed there to help ensure peace - because they'd know exactly what the Templars were up to. I'd also make it public to improve recruitment and public cooperation. But not one of the current members would be included.

Edit: That's why I started the last post the way I did. If it was Finn's father I'd still be upset but it wouldn't be as personal. It's obviously not my story to tell but that's how I feel about the story at this point (there is also a good chance that I have no Li in this story. The only one still in the running is Fionna and -- she'd be a distant second to Finn.

But Finn wasn't a LI...she was a side chick. You can keep calling her a LI...but she never was.

Just like my sweet Anissa will never be either.

 

[Pixillin']

Thanks! Fingers crossed. I actually hope that I'll get a chance to simply join Medb and fight with them but if I have to go out on my own, I'll do what damage I can.

Edit: Who knows, maybe this is what's supposed to happen - maybe it's the intent. Maybe this is an Arthurian tale with MC as Arthur and the Templars as the Saxons. Maybe now I go in search of knights.

 

[TrixRabbit]