ShinyBoots1993

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Apr 7, 2020
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Is there some exterior reason for her taking this domineering role?
The narrative angle is that she basically had no free will. Not basically. She genuinely did not. There's a pheromone trigger that turns off her higher functions and attacks whoever was splashed with them.

So she's trying to take control of her life but because she doesn't know how social dynamics work, it comes off as her being dommy.

Some people overhype her dominant aspects more than there are because she only really becomes domineering if you encourage it. There's points in the main story where if you didn't encourage it, Null will speak up and tell her not to boss him around.

It's a coping mechanism, as are all quirks. They're intentionally written to be kinky, but unhealthy.

If you don't encourage quirks, Null is a lot more helpful in a constructive way rather than just allowing himself to be an outlet for their frustration.

Though we're doing a rework of the system to allow Null, and thus the player, to encourage these habits in a dynamic way.

Such as telling Laura it's okay to stalk you, but not to dominate you in the bedroom. Or telling her that it's okay to be dommy in the bed room but not outside it.

If she's in some series like she's in here, I might read my first one!
Click on the link in my signature. It'll tell you a lot of what to expect from our game development and has a link to an entire write-up of her best works.

Oh come now, that's not just women, men do that all the time.
I said on average. I wasn't excluding men or implying it's just a women thing.

I would also argue that they aren't dismissing the existing fanbase
I would agree with you if it weren't for the numerous articles of writers, directors, and actresses openly stating "This isn't for you!" Or stuff like "The Force Is Female." Which was said by the current head of Lucas Arts. She even wore it on a shirt.

Like there's nothing nuanced about it. They're being very direct about it.

Bethesda for all their mediocrity has made Fallout many times larger than it was as a turn based isometric game.
Two very different companies. Though you're right.

However, I'd argue it's because of how dated Fallout 1&2 are. If they had the tech that modern isometric games like Baldur's Gate 3 or Disco Elysium have, I have a strong feeling they'd out-perform the FPS games.

Though I'll admit that we don't live in that reality so it's mostly me going off of market assumptions.

Like it or not, at the end of the day it is hard to argue with success.
When Bob Iger, the head of Disney, states that their current model is failing. Combined with the fact that Disney has needed to shut down several hotels and businesses, as well as upcharging the parks and other services to cater to more wealthier customers in an attempt to turn a profit... I don't know where you're getting that success from.

Like even your own math is showing they're making less. Yeah many of their projects break even, but that hasn't been considered a success for decades as the money has to be distributed to the people who worked on the film and shareholders so Disney as a company actually does lose money.

Not that you would know anything about that, would you Shiny? Nothing like that was done in the Null Hypothesis. ;)
Don't remind me. :cautious:

As explained above we actually do have corruptive elements but people just moved the goalpost to outright be abusive in ways that not even RLE goes to.

Someone once suggested necrophilia in which Laura flatlines and we fuck her in that period it takes for her to heal back.

Yeah, it was one guy but Jesus it was one hell of an escalation during that conversation.

Think I might take a few days away from the forum, let this peter out.
Forums can induce stress my dude.

"Yeah, but this is the American way."
It isn't but cheaters will justify their actions in crazy ways. I'm not happy with America right now but I don't like to let my biases get in the way of being fair.

that the word "Kung-fu" came from name "Confucian"
This is a brain-dead take if I've ever seen one. Like I'm not even familiar with that part of the world's history and even I wouldn't come to such a stupid conclusion.

It's a corporation and it wanted to get the untapped market of those franchises and completely forgot the core demographic that made those franchises successful.
Hence Electronic Arts' tactic of taking something, adding microtransactions, and then assuming the IP wasn't popular when it fails and not their shitty business practices.

Did Cebulski make Peter David write mangaverse Punisher to be a woman who dresses like a geisha and uses dominatrix gear to "punish" Tokyo crime families?
That's... a thing? Like dude... what even?

These were watered, trope-y and stereotypical looking that looks to capitalize on something without consulting, asking or learning the about the culture beyond stereotypes.
To be fair, not saying it's a good thing, but every culture does this to every culture. Look at Americans in literally any other country's media and you'll see either fat dudes or people obsessed with guns.

Heck to associate with you, no country portrays China in an flattering way. RIP Akira Toriyama but his mistreatment of Krillan and Tien are pretty good examples.

a) These stereotypes exist WITH a Japanese (like, wrote for/drew mangas in Japan) writer
Again, to be fair, at the time Mangaverse was becoming a thing the Japanese manga and anime industry was relying on its own stereotypical tropes. Miyazaki's often misquoted "Anime was a mistake" came from an interview where he criticized studios for just cannibalizing other anime and relying on the same tropes repeatedly rather than attempting to portray stories and characters as real situations and real people to tell a more relatable story.

Not to defend him, but Cebulski's "contributions", including the Punisher thing, was no worse than what the Japanese were putting out themselves. I'm 100% sure that's why he got away with it for as long as he did.
 

RandomNumber

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So...fraud. They wanted fraud. Like, that's worse. If that's what they truly wanted (which, neither of us can say for sure if that's the case because, if that's what they wanted, they wouldn't have needed to even bother hiring Chebulski. They could have just made someone up. Or just tap Jim Lee.
Well first of all, Jim Lee is a Korean who's lived in America since elementary school and probably doesn't know any mangaka from Japan either.

Second, the reason I can say with confidence that they wanted fraud is because they got what they wanted, there is a reason that Cebulski wasn't fired but rather ended up promoted to Editor in Chief. And if you think you need to be GOOD at writing or editing or hiring people to be an EiC in mainstream comics, all I need to do is point at Joe Quesada and Dan Didio in an angry, accusatory manner.
 

ShinyBoots1993

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Apr 7, 2020
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So...fraud. They wanted fraud.
I don't want to be guilty of slander or libel but it very strongly seemed that way.

all the same we're all worst off because of it.
they'd probably do a better job
My response to both these points is no, not really? I'll admit I only read the Spiderman Mangaverse and it really was no different compared to the stuff that was being pushed out by the Japanese AT THE TIME.

there's "Japanese people eat sushi all day long and drink tea."
This is actually a trope you'll find in plenty of manga and anime made in Japan. It's a caricature to mock Otaku or people up their own ass about being Japanese. I mean the Japanese as a majority are pretty nationalistic so it should tell you something that even they see some as taking it too far.
 
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sleepingkirby

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Well first of all, Jim Lee is a Korean who's lived in America since elementary school and probably doesn't know any mangaka from Japan either.
I'm a Taiwanese that grew up in America. If they had said "We're doing Mangaverse with Jim Lee at the helm!" Americans wouldn't have known the difference. Again, they used Chinese type font for a mangaverse comic. People say that "Avatar: The Last Airbender" is anime. Trust the Japanese speaking Asian on this one. They wouldn't have known a difference.

Second, the reason I can say with confidence that they wanted fraud is because they got what they wanted...
I'm gonna agree to disagree on this one. Just because I'm not one to say what is or what isn't without hard evidence. As I told someone else recently absence of something doesn't mean the opposite is true. And, until I see evidence to say "Yes, this was our intent." I'm not going to assume anything. You can. I just won't.
 

RandomNumber

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Aug 6, 2016
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To be fair, not saying it's a good thing, but every culture does this to every culture. Look at Americans in literally any other country's media and you'll see either fat dudes or people obsessed with guns.
As a fan of Tokusatsu, I kind of enjoy the fact that whenever a character in a Sentai is "from America", they're immediately given a cowboy gimmick.

I'm a Taiwanese that grew up in America. If they had said "We're doing Mangaverse with Jim Lee at the helm!" Americans wouldn't have known the difference. Again, they used Chinese type font for a mangaverse comic. People say that "Avatar: The Last Airbender" is anime. Trust the Japanese speaking Asian on this one. They wouldn't have known a difference.
Sure, but you're the one who wanted authenticity.
 
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sleepingkirby

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Look at Americans in literally any other country's media and you'll see either fat dudes or people obsessed with guns.
Gonna disagree with you on that one. In my experience, it highly depends on the country.
I'm reminded of Pani Poni Dash where they have an image of "Bob Jackie" (their imagining of an American) Which is just a guy with blonde hair speaking faux English.
If you look at Hong Kong action movies from the 80's and 90's, they're just foreigners that don't know what's going on. Not fat nor obsessed with guns.
In China, they have "white monkey" (I didn't come up with the name. To my knowledge, other white people came up with the term.) jobs where white people are hired for looking stereotypically American/white. None of them are fat.

Honestly, at the very least, here in Taiwan, when people think "American" they think tall, blonde and speak English. Oh, often loud and/or inconsiderate. But not fat or obsessed with guns.


Basically, the image of the average American hasn't been that tarnished internationally (yet).
 

RandomNumber

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Yes, but what I meant was, if they wanted to fake things, they could have just tapped Jim Lee. Because no one would have known the difference. Fraud is fraud. You don't get extra points for be slightly less fraud.
Well most importantly, Jim's artstyle doesn't look like manga and is heavily associated with and frequently copied in western comics already as a "house style". It wouldn't have been suitable for a line of anime knockoffs.
 

sleepingkirby

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My response to both these points is no, not really? I'll admit I only read the Spiderman Mangaverse and it really was no different compared to the stuff that was being pushed out by the Japanese AT THE TIME.
You sure? 2000-2002 was the time of FLCL, Love Hina, Ah! My Goddess was getting a TV series (checks what I was reading at the time), Fruit Baskets was still going on, Azumanga Daioh, Skip Beat! (I need to finish that series), Get Backers, Flame of Recca (Speaking of ninjas), Angel Heart (A spin off of City Hunter), Gundam Seed (which, they're about to release a movie for). Full Metal Alchemist. Like there was some real quality stuff during that period.
 

sleepingkirby

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Well most importantly, Jim's artstyle doesn't look like manga and is heavily associated with and frequently copied in western comics already as a "house style". It wouldn't have been suitable for a line of anime knockoffs.
Are comic artists really locked in to one style that much? I mean, granted, I've only personally know 1 published and fairly well known comic artist and he was able to change styles pretty well. But I'd think someone of Jim Lee's caliber could have picked up a different style for a project. Like, I know that when I did art, I went between styles.
 

RandomNumber

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Are comic artists really locked in to one style that much? I mean, granted, I've only personally know 1 published and fairly well known comic artist and he was about to change styles pretty well. But I'd think someone of Jim Lee's caliber could have picked up a different style for a project. Like, I know that when I did art, I went between styles.
Not only has Jim been very rigid and consistent his entire career, his art was so popular in the 90s that it basically defines that era of western comics and had many, many imitators.
 

ShinyBoots1993

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Not only has Jim been very rigid and consistent his entire career, his art was so popular in the 90s that it basically defines that era of western comics and had many, many imitators.
He's responsible for the most consistent designs. Like think of a super hero. The image that came to mind was probably influenced by him.
 

sleepingkirby

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Not only has Jim been very rigid and consistent his entire career, his art was so popular in the 90s that it basically defines that era of western comics and had many, many imitators.
Rigid and consistent is different from locked in. Again, use to do art. Worked in animation. Saying an artist is locked into one style and one style only, in the art world, is close to calling someone a hack. So I'm going to ask again. Are you absolutely sure he CANNOT do another style than his style?
 

RandomNumber

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Animation is very different from comics. Most western artists have one style and never change. If you don't believe me, google is your friend.
 

ShinyBoots1993

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As a fan of Tokusatsu, I kind of enjoy the fact that whenever a character in a Sentai is "from America", they're immediately given a cowboy gimmick.
Oh yeah I wasn't saying I disliked the cowboy stuff.

Gonna disagree with you on that one. In my experience, it highly depends on the country.
I was overgeneralizing which in conversations like these I admit isn't a good idea. There are other tropes and stuff but my point that countries often do rely on

Oh, often loud and/or inconsiderate.
This is actually more common than the two I cited. It's still a stereotype.

You sure?
Most certainly.

Of your examples, Love Hina was 100% derivative of harem and domestic abuse being referred to as slapstick humor.

Fruits Basket, while of higher quality, is the model of shoujo manga and anime with a love triangle.

I jokingly refer to Gundam Seed as the Shoujo Gundam. It has a pop idol advocating for peace while flying a giant robot and two pretty boys who are into her but the fandom ships with each other.

Full Metal Alchemist can be serious and I think it's a good story but it still relies on tropes such as chibi, typical anime fan service, general character archetypes, and deadpan humor with the emoticons of sweatdrops, bulging forehead veins, an overcast, etc.

Ah! My Goddess is probably the blandest of your picks. It was just a generic love story with a special gimmick. It has major Tenchi Muyo vibes.

I haven't watched/read the others so I can't comment.

Are any of these things bad? No, but they're filled with tropes and stereotypes that are synonymous with the genres they belong to.
 

sleepingkirby

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This is actually more common than the two I cited. It's still a stereotype.
I hate to say it, but it's a pretty true stereotype. Like, I live in a fairly busy part of Taipei. And even among the busy crowds commuting to and from places on the MRT, you can spot/hear an American really easily. German? Spanish? French? Not so much. Like, I'll walk by one and only then go "Huh, don't hear French very often around here." An American, you immediately know.

Of your examples, Love Hina was 100% derivative of harem and domestic abuse being referred to as slapstick humor.

Fruits Basket, while of higher quality, is the model of shoujo manga and anime with a love triangle.

I jokingly refer to Gundam Seed as the Shoujo Gundam. It has a pop idol advocating for peace while flying a giant robot and two pretty boys who are into her but the fandom ships with each other.

Full Metal Alchemist can be serious and I think it's a good story but it still relies on tropes such as chibi, typical anime fan service, general character archetypes, and deadpan humor with the emoticons of sweatdrops, bulging forehead veins, an overcast, etc.

Ah! My Goddess is probably the blandest of your picks. It was just a generic love story with a special gimmick. It has major Tenchi Muyo vibes.

I haven't watched/read the others so I can't comment.

Are any of these things bad? No, but they're filled with tropes and stereotypes that are synonymous with the genres they belong to.
Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you mean the quality was just as bad, not the amount of tropes. My bad.

Yeah, that is true. But I feel like they aren't relying on the tropes to define the work, but rather, the work lends itself to the tropes. Like, a romance story will commonly have a "Will she/won't she" trope because that is common in romance in general. Which, admittedly, a lot of works in the US at that time was trying to do the latter.

I do have to say that Love Hina did codify how harem genre work. I remember a lot of mangas that came out after that were very Love Hina-esque, not to mention a sudden influx of harem-type mangas and animes.

I jokingly refer to Gundam Seed as the Shoujo Gundam. It has a pop idol advocating for peace while flying a giant robot and two pretty boys who are into her but the fandom ships with each other.
I actually haven't watched that series yet. And yet, this isn't the first time I've heard Gundam Seed described that way. I was planning to watch it before the movie came out, now I wonder if I should...

Oh, also, I wanted to touch on this
Heck to associate with you, no country portrays China in an flattering way. RIP Akira Toriyama but his mistreatment of Krillan and Tien are pretty good examples.
My family and extended family have all read Dragon Ball to some degree, if not finished the original run. None of us really feels that there's really mistreatment towards Krillan and Tien and especially not because of them being Chinese. For us, they're pretty much all Chinese and kinda not at the same time (because Japanese manga). Since it was based on "Journey to the West", all the characters that have an analog in the original story (including Bulma as she's the monk that finds and frees Wukong.), are technically all Chinese (but not really).
 

Dazzier31

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Jul 24, 2019
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That's... a thing? Like dude... what even?
1713892076582.png

Yup

Second, the reason I can say with confidence that they wanted fraud is because they got what they wanted, there is a reason that Cebulski wasn't fired but rather ended up promoted to Editor in Chief.
I personally don't think Marvel comitting fraud was the intention, rather a consequence (positive or negative for them is not for me to say).

Akira Yoshida came to be not as a mandate from Marvel to have a bunch of diversity hires so more people from all over the world would care about comics. Akira Yoshida came to be because Cebulski wanted some extra money, let me elaborate:

At this point in time, Cebulski was already an editor with a given salary and barely nowhere to let his "creative juices" flow because Marvel had an strict policy that nobody in an editor position could double dip into writing work, this after years of editors being able to do whatever the hell they wanted and it being very frowned upon. Then Cebulski wanted some extra cash and had a great idea: let's create a guy from another country that could work for Marvel via outsourcing, that way Marvel won't ask many questions, he can just refuse to show up in conventions and he gets some extra cash.

As a fan of Tokusatsu, I kind of enjoy the fact that whenever a character in a Sentai is "from America", they're immediately given a cowboy gimmick.
Always will love the burger morpher.
 

sleepingkirby

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Aug 8, 2017
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Animation is very different from comics. Most western artists have one style and never change. If you don't believe me, google is your friend.
Again, personally knew a published comic artist (In DC comics, in case you were wondering). Also, the medium is different, but there's a lot of overlap. Matt Groening started out with comics. A lot of artists that worked as storyboarders have done comics as they're very similar in skill set. I've seen some (I didn't know them personally) that's done comics. I've also seen these artists have one style they do professionally and another style they do for fun. Like, I've been there, I've seen it.
 

RandomNumber

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Again, personally knew a published comic artist (In DC comics, in case you were wondering). Also, the medium is different, but there's a lot of overlap. Matt Groening started out with comics. A lot of artists that worked as storyboarders have done comics as they're very similar in skill set. I've seen some (I didn't know them personally) that's done comics. I've also seen these artists have one style they do professionally and another style they do for fun. Like, I've been there, I've seen it.
I said "most" for a reason.

Animation is a huge industry in which the vast majority of artists will be doing storyboards or cels and very few will ever get to be in charge of their own show, so the job heavily revolves around being able to replicate the style of the showrunner or whoever did the character designs.

In comics, on the other hand, personal change and growth as an artist is entirely based on self-motivation. There's very little outside influence to draw in a dictated style, people often choose to follow the leader in the sense that they may go "Well that guy's book is a best seller right now, if my work looked more like his, I'd sell more copies, get more job offers, make more money" which is what happened when guys like Marc Silvestri, Fabian Nicieza, and Adam Kubert all started drawing like Jim. Not to mention the infamous Rob Liefeld's style is basically trying to copy Lee's angularity and heavy use of hatching, the reason he stands out as unique is just because he's so bad at anatomy it results in its own thing. But Jim himself never had to copy anyone else, he was the leader being followed. So he's never attempted any other style. The Jim Lee style seen on mid-90's X-Men when he created the famous suits you see in the Fox cartoon is the exact same Jim Lee seen on Batman: Hush a decade later, is the same Jim Lee who designed every character for the Nu52 reboot and the game DCU Online, is the same Jim Lee who drew costume designs for Mortal Kombat's Scorpion and Sub-Zero as guest characters in the Injustice games.

Most western artists who don't work in an industry where they're expected to be chameleons who can copy anyone's work such as in animation or graphic design, are downright encouraged by our "everyone is a unique and beautiful snowflake and you should emphasize what makes you an individual in order to stand out from the crowd and prove your worth" culture to hone in on having a style of their own and defend it from detractors even when the criticisms are valid (again I point at Liefeld who still can't fuckin' draw feet).

In addition, the number one thing employers in comics look for is speed. Which is how infamous tracers like Greg Land (whose blatantly reuses a small pool of stock photos of Triple H and porn stars over and over again) and Mikel Janin (whose characters are easily identified as Daz stock models) continue to get work despite the core fanbase lambasting them for over a decade. Such an environment doesn't really encourage the working penciller to try to branch out and experiment with his process too often. The ones who are really passionate like your friend will find the time, find a way...but most don't change once they perfect their preferred method.
 
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