Ren'Py The Null Hypothesis [v0.7b] [Ron Chon]

[sleepingkirby]

Oh btw, I think he meant like linear experience.
...
And when I think now, it shouldn't be actually THAT much of a work?...

I'll throw my 2 cents in as an unaffiliated programmer that knows this game's code pretty well.
It would take A LOT of work.

The most obvious thing are the randomized events. You'd have to put in an exception to those so that they're not only guaranteed to happen, but also they don't inhibit/stop other events from happening.

The second thing are the stats. They'd need to be raised to the max immediately. That should be pretty easy, but run the risk of things like anal being allowed before actual sex so you need to deal with that. Which means you'd need to script and/or schedule sex. When to open up anal? When will they try toys? Etc. etc. And that kind of scripting can get pretty tedious fast. Like, ever directed a sex scene in a porno? Now do that via code and do it for every character. But also schedule that with and between the characters.

Then there are the items and the clothes, which implies money. They can be given immediately, but that also voids the point of the stores altogether.

Then there's the planned parallel paths and miss-able content. Linear means just that. A line. Not a branching path. So you'd be missing out.

Then there are little quirks like the variety of dialogue as you visit them. For example, catching Rogue masturbating when you knock on her door. You'd either need to ditch those altogether or make sure that you visit the person as many times as there are possible dialogue.




And all that is what *I* know and think of off the top of my head. I'm sure the devs can come up with more. The general rule is if it's designed/built that way, it's a cinch. If not, it can be hard, if not impossible. It's kind of like saying "This power assisted bike can be an electric scooter AND a bike. So it's easy to retrofit ALL bikes into electric scooters, right?" Well, no, you're not going to turn a high performance, light-weight, competition bike into a scooter or even a power assisted bike. The wheels weren't meant for it, the frame wasn't meant to house/hold the battery, let alone the motor.

I will end with a warning that Adam Savage of Mythbusters fame says. Beware the tool that does everything. Because, more often than not, it will none of it well. The same could be applied to games and programs. A program/game that tries to do/be everything will often do none of it well.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

It would take A LOT of work.

Emphasizing again that this is not a talk about TNH specifically, but just theorycrafting, I disagree.
Because of your interpretation of a word "linear", which has nothing to do with paths.
Which pushes you toward binary-nuclear option of kinetic novel.

All I said was - the whole movement part of the game (in its current state) could be easly VN-ified.
You can cut out whole map UI completly from the frontend, keep the logic in the backend, and just display the chronological order of events as choices.

 

[JMAH1R30]

I've made this request and the dev team has turned it down.

Do they not realize they're making content for people who may be interested in that? like who cares if YOU particularly aren't into that, just make the option available and you will bring in more people to play the game. like be realistic here, the amount of men who like getting pegged is not a high number but there are those who would do that option anyway because of content. not everyone is as pretentious as your dev team.

I mean holy shit, the game has so much potential as a dating game and they could add so much stuff to the game but they have to think about themselves (which i mean fair enough if they aren't comfortable then that's that) but the dev team needs to realize they aren't making a game for themselves (well, I mean you wouldn't make a game you wouldn't play, realistically) they're making it for people on here and other sites. And those people have a variety of different turn ons and turn offs. They have a dominant character in the game already, they could just have her peg the character. Or you could turn it around on her and dominate her. like there is so much potential and it's already such a great game.

Like having a bisexual protagonist would work for a lot of people, because who the fuck wouldn't want to make out with nightcrawler lmao...such a hunky

 

[JMAH1R30]

No comic is off-limits from adaptation.

Unless it's something we've explicitly stated is off-limits. Like Nyx.

quick question, my favourite character is gwen poole, is there a possibility of her being a potential partner in the game? like a long term one? I probably would be fine with a cameo but I like her too much lmao...

 

[Maddeninggg]

Do they not realize they're making content for people who may be interested in that? like who cares if YOU particularly aren't into that, just make the option available and you will bring in more people to play the game. like be realistic here, the amount of men who like getting pegged is not a high number but there are those who would do that option anyway because of content. not everyone is as pretentious as your dev team.

I mean holy shit, the game has so much potential as a dating game and they could add so much stuff to the game but they have to think about themselves (which i mean fair enough if they aren't comfortable then that's that) but the dev team needs to realize they aren't making a game for themselves (well, I mean you wouldn't make a game you wouldn't play, realistically) they're making it for people on here and other sites. And those people have a variety of different turn ons and turn offs. They have a dominant character in the game already, they could just have her peg the character. Or you could turn it around on her and dominate her. like there is so much potential and it's already such a great game.

Like having a bisexual protagonist would work for a lot of people, because who the fuck wouldn't want to make out with nightcrawler lmao...such a hunky

You underestimate the amount of work and development time/effort it would take, not to mention custom art. It's relatively niche and we have many many other priorities at the moment.

 

[sleepingkirby]

Emphasizing again that this is not a talk about TNH specifically, but just theorycrafting, I disagree.

Yeah, that's fine. I'm just speaking to this game. I don't want people to think that it isn't a lot of work to turn this game into a linear experience.

Because of your interpretation of a word "linear", which has nothing to do with paths.
Which pushes you toward binary-nuclear option of kinetic novel.

Soooo

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doesn't mean a single, straight line? Also, binary=2. You start with 3 choices in this game and 3 girls. Pretty sure 2!=3. But sure, if that's the hill you want to die on...

All I said was - the whole movement part of the game (in its current state) could be easly VN-ified.
You can cut out whole map UI completly from the frontend, keep the logic in the backend, and just display the chronological order of events as choices.

And I'm saying that, for this game, in its current state, the movement parts can't be easily VN-ified. The events always aren't in chronological orders. As I previously wrote in the faq of my cheat injector:

...These flags are applied in a linear fashion, but not related to each other in any linear way. To add this flag artificially could mean other flags (and hence, other events that are dependent on those flags) can never be reached, thus breaking the game.

As well as for all the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. There is a way make all of these linear in this game, but it takes A LOT of work. You'd have to tear out the event registry system, the event requirement checks system, the stat system and the time system. And yes, you'd need to tear them out as letting those run and/or leaving them in will cause jumps/calls into different scenes. You'd then need to figure out/map out where all the event are and relation to each other in a linear way that makes sense(because, remember, they're not related to each other in any linear way) and then write those into a sequence then hook it into the main game. And, objectively, for this game, that is a lot of work.


This is the last I'll say about this. If you don't want to believe the programmer that knows this game so well that he wrote a cheat injector that is able to safely modify the game in place and across game versions, that's on you. I'm only putting in my explanation so people don't misunderstand the amount of work it takes to re-engineer something into something that it's not just because the two are kind of similar. People tend to think/feel that just because it's code that has to do with computers and it looks the same, it should be easy and possible and I just don't want that misconception to be perpetuated.

 

[bigguy_foryou]

like who cares if YOU particularly aren't into that, just make the option available and you will bring in more people to play the game.

Ok, in the defense of any developer, hand crafting art you are not personally into and may be actively not into is not something they might want to do, and certainly not something they should be forced to do.

 

[JMAH1R30]

You underestimate the amount of work and development time/effort it would take, not to mention custom art. It's relatively niche and we have many many other priorities at the moment.

I'm sure I do, I have no experience in creating games, so my comment likely rings as aggressive or complainatory, and I get them not being comfortable creating gay sex scenes or other fetishes, it's a niche area and not a lot of people are into that sort of stuff, I myself am not into that sort of stuff, the pegging i mean. Like not a lot of people are into pissing porn but a lot of sex games have it

 

[mypossiblepasts]

Soooo

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doesn't mean a single, straight line? Also, binary=2. You start with 3 choices in this game and 3 girls. Pretty sure 2!=3. But sure, if that's the hill you want to die on...

Nope, not when it is in context of storytelling.

I didn't wrote binary in relation to story, but to your mindset.
You either see full sandbox or full novel.

If you don't want to believe the programmer that knows this game so well that he wrote a cheat injector that is able to safely modify the game in place and across game versions, that's on you.

Yes, I don't believe, or rather can't agree, because you're talking about a different thing than I do.

There is a way make all of these linear in this game, but it takes A LOT of work.

If the spaghetti is in any way kept under control, then tell me - what is the hard thing, involing A LOT of work, in changing the event... event into:
1. Just a choice? Thankfully there are 3 shortcuts, although I don't see a reason why there is not an option to move to other floor in choices menu. Yes, as you can see, I really hate the minimap. And so instead of "spawning" the event on map spawn it into the currently show menu. "[QUEST] Go to X". Bam, done. Shouldn't be more than 5 lines of code.

2. Fully streamlined expierience - slap an ai on top, that will just choose random things on map, untill event spawns - then play it.
(I already played the game this way with how random based the events are)

 

[JMAH1R30]

Ok, in the defense of any developer, hand crafting art you are not personally into and may be actively not into is not something they might want to do, and certainly not something they should be forced to do.

that is completely fine. No harm done there, it's no problem to me...some people may want some content and others may want different content, you can't please everyone so it's very difficult in creating games when people expect certain things from you

 

[sleepingkirby]

Nope, not when it is in context of storytelling...
View attachment 3711776
I didn't wrote binary in relation to story, but to your mindset.
You either see full sandbox or full novel.


Yes, I don't believe, or rather can't agree, because you're talking about a different thing than I do.

Not gonna speak to the rest of that because I said I wouldn't. I believe my previously points still hold up even with the definition you put it.

...then tell me ...

Alright, since you asked.

If the spaghetti is in any way kept under control, - what is the hard thing, involing A LOT of work, in changing the event... event into:

By the way, this game doesn't have spaghetti code.

1. Just a choice? Thankfully there are 3 shortcuts, although I don't see a reason why there is not an option to move to other floor in choices menu.
Yes, as you can see, I really hate the minimap. And so instead of "spawning" the event on map spawn it into the currently show menu. "[QUEST] Go to X". Bam, done. Shouldn't be more than 5 lines of code.

I've answered this before.

...These flags are applied in a linear fashion, but not related to each other in any linear way. To add this flag artificially could mean other flags (and hence, other events that are dependent on those flags) can never be reached, thus breaking the game.

What this means is that those three events that appear on the map for one person, or even for one game load, may not be the same three events for another person. They are randomized. So, in order for what you want to happen, you'd need to:

...tear out the event registry system, the event requirement checks system, the stat system and the time system.

And then:

You'd then need to figure out/map out where all the event are and relation to each other in a linear way that makes sense(because, remember, they're not related to each other in any linear way) and then write those into a sequence then hook it into the main game.

This takes a lot of work because here are all the files and that need to be managed, interpreted, reorganized and scheduled. For example, these are all the registered events *just for Laura*:

Spoiler

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Each of those has it's own requirement, which needs to be taken out or have requirement system taken out:

Spoiler: requirement example

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That's 224 files you'd need to process through. And that's ignoring the events for the main character itself, the actions needed during sex to unlock other things, random encounters and dialogue, etc. etc. as I've stated previously. Objectively, going through 224+ files to make sure you got what you need/changed what's needed/evaluate the conditions to process what goes where chronologically and figuring out what parallel events to put priority over other events and/or actions is a lot of work.

2. Fully streamlined expierience - slap an ai on top, that will just choose random things on map, untill event spawns - then play it.
(I already played the game this way with how random based the events are)

You want to inject AI into a single player offline experience? You want to inject hooks into the event registration system so that it knows what events are valid and then throw that to a large language model so it can generate a random number between the 1~3 events that start that event in game? Instead of, you know, run a random number generator that any game can do and start that event? This suggestion is literally throwing more work into the one aspect that doesn't require a lot of work.

If all you wanted was a "Event icon showed up on the map, I want to go to that automatically." is probably the easiest part of all of this. There's code that draws the icon on the map, after all. Those can be put into an array (or list, as python calls it) and then you can generate a random for the length of that list to run.


Honestly, at this point, to do what you're describing so far, it would be easier to hook in your computer's input and video output into an computer vision model so it can look for text boxes and just pick one at random to send the click message to the game. That's less work than asking the devs to make a VN mode for the game because once you're made it, you're done. No need to worry about future game updates. It also means you won't need to crack open the game code to re-engineer the game and/or insert control hooks. That's probably the best way to get the computer to play the game for you.

 

[Crichton1]

You underestimate the amount of work and development time/effort it would take, not to mention custom art. It's relatively niche and we have many many other priorities at the moment.

POV solution: Null is in a neck brace from his most recent threat on his life.

 

[Kingofjunhei]

guys i asked a girl to shave, how long does it take for it to be done?

 

[mypossiblepasts]

If all you wanted was a "Event icon showed up on the map, I want to go to that automatically." is probably the easiest part of all of this.

Took you some time, but you finally learned to ignore the

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.
You have some equalisation to do between your writing skills and reading one though.
And that pretentious tone is really silly, think bout arraying your ego.

And AI is used in games since... well, since game got invented. So idc what issue you find there.

 

[Crichton1]

guys i asked a girl to shave, how long does it take for it to be done?

You can now go into the wardrobe, find the hair section, and change it to what you want.

 

[SomeoneX22]

guys i asked a girl to shave, how long does it take for it to be done?

She is just deciding how to break up with you, bush hater

 

[jefxxxyxyz]

I've made this request and the dev team has turned it down.

that is gay

 

[ShinyBoots1993]

that is gay

Hell yeah it is.

 

[1y3uehsbqgs]

The X-Men are a little gay

 

[mypossiblepasts]

that is gay

Hey hey hey!
I completly understand your emotions, but let's be civil.
It is not okay to call devs "gay" because they made a decision to not implement strap-on play into the game.
Shame it's the path they chose, but let's avoid slurs.