Ren'Py The Null Hypothesis [v0.8c] [Ron Chon]

[Karmadive]

At this point I'm tired of answering the friend question.
I don't remember, is there an in game tutorial for friend points from the database...or Kurt?

I feel like at this point it might be an idea to have some in game indicator of friendship value change. Like we have for love and trust.

The question just keeps coming up over and over again. Yes it can come down to people not reading the tutorial, but some people come back to the game after a time away and may forget it. Or pick it up later on during a new update and forget the tutorial message or mechanic.

If it's the one overly recurring question that gets asked then the game isn't doing a good enough job in presenting the information to the player.

 

[freddygonzo]

From Kurt's pool tutorial:

    ch_Kurt "Also, if two of zee frauleins don't seem to like each other very much. . ."
    ch_Kurt ". . . bringing zem to hang out at zee pool with you is a good way to help better zeir relationship viz each other."

That's basically all the official info about making them friends afair.
If you got more questions about game mechanics, just ask and I'll dig it up from the code.

Later in chapter 2 when you basically start over with another three girls, this could get interesting if you are already in poly relationships with the chapter 1 girls.
I guess the same careful approach is necessary then to rather increase all their stats first before making them your girlfriends as well.
But first let’s see if and how many quests the chapter 1 girls still get then, so you can easily avoid flirting in public and going to dates with the old girls to avoid cheating in front of the newer ones.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

From Kurt's pool tutorial:

    ch_Kurt "Also, if two of zee frauleins don't seem to like each other very much. . ."
    ch_Kurt ". . . bringing zem to hang out at zee pool with you is a good way to help better zeir relationship viz each other."

That's basically all the official info about making them friends afair.
If you got more questions about game mechanics, just ask and I'll dig it up from the code.

Later in chapter 2 when you basically start over with another three girls, this could get interesting if you are already in poly relationships with the chapter 1 girls.
I guess the same careful approach is necessary then to rather increase all their stats first before making them your girlfriends as well.
But first let’s see if and how many quests the chapter 1 girls still get then, so you can easily avoid flirting in public and going to dates with the old girls to avoid cheating in front of the newer ones.

Yeah that's about what I remember being mentioned in game in terms of friend points.

I spend most of fall just raising points to get it out of the way.


ShinyBoots, it may be a really good idea to expand the Kurt lines mentioned and maybe add point gain indicators for friend points in the same way as love/trust before the end of 1.0 since this keeps coming up.

 

[Karmadive]

Or maybe even some icon or small description under the choices for stuff like "Train together" saying "Friendship will increase"

 

[Incogman]

Friendship Points

The saturday pool party/barbecue events seem to boost these very well depending on party score points.
Buying the girls' desired food and having a high social score helps to increase this party score.
Social score is basically a sum of academic+training.
The best party talk topics: mutant safety, politics, mortality, tease any girl (only if friendships are at least Good Friend).
The party games don't matter.

mall hangout: 2
movie night: 2
studying: 1
sunbathing: 2
swimming: 2
taking class: 1
training: 1
wander town: 2

These are all boosts so far from v0.8b1.

Thank you! I have no clue how long it'd take for Rogue's attitude towards Jean to shift from Rival to Acquaintance again but I'll just spam as many 2 pointers as I can

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

Thank you! I have no clue how long it'd take for Rogue's attitude towards Jean to shift from Rival to Acquaintance again but I'll just spam as many 2 pointers as I can

Swimming/Sunbathing is weather dependent so throw in some group study or training sessions in there to keep a steady flow of points and get experience at the same time.

 

[NexivSelecaf]

From Kurt's pool tutorial:

    ch_Kurt "Also, if two of zee frauleins don't seem to like each other very much. . ."
    ch_Kurt ". . . bringing zem to hang out at zee pool with you is a good way to help better zeir relationship viz each other."

That's basically all the official info about making them friends afair.

ShinyBoots, it may be a really good idea to expand the Kurt lines mentioned and maybe add point gain indicators in the same way as love/trust before the end of 1.0 since this keeps coming up.

Or maybe even some icon or small description under the choices for stuff like "Train together" saying "Friendship will increase"

I'm starting to believe that Kurt mentioning it once is intentional, and that the more experienced players of the game are meant to collectively act as Kurt for the newcomers.

 

[eatgreencrayons]

Let them wander in ignorance and ignominy.

 

[NexivSelecaf]

Let them wander in ignorance and ignominy.

Tempting, but I'm sure that the devs want the fanbase to grow.

 

[SHADOWM00N]

ShinyBoots1993: Add futanari to the "list of no".

And that's a good thing, futa tends to attract Astolfo fans.

 

[NexivSelecaf]

Astolfo fans.

...I'm already here.

 

[SHADOWM00N]

...I'm already here.

I mean the cursed kind, you're cool.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

I mean the cursed kind, you're cool.

Don't temp him.
He might turn wicked just for a good laugh.

 

[sk1122]

the more experienced players of the game are meant to collectively act as Kurt for the newcomers.

While they do form quickly around here, we still do not always have an angry mob with baseball bats available

 

[eatgreencrayons]

Tempting, but I'm sure that the devs want the fanbase to grow.

They should probably not be outsourcing that labor.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

They should probably not be outsourcing that labor.

Just looking out for user usability things and feeding it back to the dev to improve. Nothing scummy and nefarious.

The end of 1.0 is when systems are more solid, and the devs do indeed take feedback and talk to people so its not a forgone conclusion

 

[NexivSelecaf]

They should probably not be outsourcing that labor.

I'm probably going to echo what No Name already said, but, expecting a dev team to internally think of every problem their game may have and also internally have a solution is unrealistic. More often than not, especially when this game specifically is early in development and has pretty high aspirations, constructive criticism form outside of the team can be more valuable than the collective vision of the team at time; for the sake of having fresh eyes on the project instead of mostly being in the development bubble.

With all that said, this is probably my favorite game on this site and there's some good stuff here for those who like X-Men and/or social sims, and I want more people to experience those things whether or not certain readability issues exist on both sides of the aisle. ...where I think it's a bit more of the player's fault for assuming that this game is a quick and easy sex simulator while taking Kurt's words for granted and not truly grasping how this game works even though it's really not all that complicated... Yeah, clearly I'm not a person to ask how building up the friendship meters between the girls and how to not cheat on the girls can be made more clear. All I can do is repeat the do's and don't's.

 

[freddygonzo]

For a test, I've added the friendship points to my own UI mod to see how many I've already accumulated:

friendship rank|friendship points
You only need 20 and 40 points for the ranks, so rather quickly to do.
I doesn't stop counting after the last rank, so showing only the ranks is at least enough for me there in the quick menu without consulting the friendships screen.

Another notification popup like "Jean gained affection for Laura" could also be too much, as group activity already chains too many notifications in a row that these never seem to end. I've already made these slightly faster now.
I think it's fine if the friendships screen only shows the rank by the portrait frame, as numbers would make it look too unnatural how affections have developed so far. The exact affection stats to the player are enough for that.
The only unclear matter here is that Jean can only be Good Friends at maximum to Rogue and Laura. We'll see later in chapter 2 with the newcomers if there are more Best Friends possibilities before someone wastes too much time by grinding affection.
Nonetheless, an extra "Tutorial: Friendships" card in the database giving more hints couldn't really hurt without revealing any exact numbers.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

For a test, I've added the friendship points to my own UI mod to see how many I've already accumulated:
View attachment 5038793
friendship-rank|friendship points
I doesn't stop counting after the last rank, so showing only the ranks is at least enough for me there in the quick menu without consulting the friendships screen.

Another notification popup like "Jean gained affection for Laura" could also be too much, as group activity already chains too many notifications in a row that these never seem to end. I've already made these slightly faster now.
I think it's fine if the friendships screen only shows the rank by the portrait frame, as numbers would make it look too unnatural how affections have developed so far. The exact affection stats to the player are enough for that.
The only unclear matter here is that Jean can only be Good Friends at maximum to Rogue and Laura. We'll see later in chapter 2 with the newcomers if there are more Best Friends possibilities before someone wastes too much time by grinding affection.
Nonetheless, an extra "Tutorial: Friendships" card in the database giving more hints couldn't really hurt without revealing any exact numbers.

Exact numbers isn't the issue. Yes, the rank word indicator is enough, though a termination signal of some form would be nice. Maybe the word "max" or something added on the friend menu. That will require graphics icons, so unless we collaborate its best left to the devs.

The issue is that when love/trust is gained, there is a visual indicator telling the player that an action = points, but no such for friend points.
And there doesn't need to be a lengthy thing outlining every activity , just something added in the database or from Kurt giving people the general idea that activities done with multiple girls = friend points.

It's such a persistent problem coming up that it really should be added in a later version.
We'll see what ShinyBoots thinks.

 

[freddygonzo]

I also find it irritating that the notifications show XP and level gains for the girls, although these don't matter at all at moment besides accumulating the score points for the leaderboards. Maybe this will change one day.
If these notifications only show gains of the player, then that should be really enough info to avoid confusion.

Maybe it's intentional that only the pool is mentioned for gaining affection, so you spend more time relaxing instead of only taking classes, studying and training with the girls.
What I would add at least is a notification that "X has become Friends to Y", so you sometimes know something has changed without checking the friendships screen once in a while. This way the players could figure out for themselves that certain activities also help improving relations.

I forgot to mention: that there can also be events ignoring these friendship points, like when you send Laura to Rogue for advice about relationships. Laura and Rogue will automatically become Friends then.
For that reason alone, these friendship points shouldn't be mentioned or shown as they are not a strict rule to this game mechanic.