Ren'Py The Null Hypothesis [v0.8c] [Ron Chon]

[SHADOWM00N]

It's going to be real funny to look back in this Psylocke debate in the future if somehow she ends up not appearing in the game...

 

[Giltia]

It's going to be real funny to look back in this Psylocke debate in the future if somehow she ends up not appearing in the game...

True, but i think a bit of healthy discussion around topics like this is good for peoples expectations of the game and might give some insight as to why things come out a certain way in game. Especially if they aren't familiar with comics or character back stories.

 

[salscou]

Comics in the 80's were wild, and whilst he gave us some bangers Chris Claremont is a creepy old man and his stories deserve to stay in the 80's.

Nah that i dont agree with, Claremont MADE X-men, hes the source of most of the good stories.

 

[Giltia]

Nah that i dont agree with, Claremont MADE X-men, hes the source of most of the good stories.

Oh absolutley, i don't disagree with this in the slightest. My beef with CC isn't personal i just think he's a product of his time like many other people from his generation, when underage characters dating way older men and certain stereotypes were at the very least overlooked. CC is a great writer I just don't feel he's really 'appropriate, anymore.

 

[RandomNumber]

It's going to be real funny to look back in this Psylocke debate in the future if somehow she ends up not appearing in the game...

Not that it matters to anybody but me, but almost two years ago, some of the first posts I ever made in this thread...some of the first posts I ever made on F95 after a near-decade of lurking...were "add 90's Psylocke please" and "can the clipart avatars get long hair and beards?" I don't mind being 0 for 2 when Chapter 1 isn't even over yet, I'm just sayin'.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

Nah that i dont agree with, Claremont MADE X-men, hes the source of most of the good stories.

To de-mythicize him somewhat, it's not like he was a genius with grand planned arcs.

Dark Phoenix only came about because Phoenix was too op and they needed a way to deal with it. Hell, Chris wasn't even sure what to do with Jean or how he was going to end that arc while he was writing it. He didn't even have a clear idea while writing which actions came from Jean and which were Phoenix inspired. Only in hindsight do things look well orchestrated.

 

[RandomNumber]

To de-mythicize him somewhat, it's not like he was a genius with grand planned arcs.

Dark Phoenix only came about because Phoenix was too op and they needed a way to deal with it. Hell, Chris wasn't even sure what to do with Jean or how he was going to end that arc while he was writing it. He didn't even have a clear idea while writing which actions came from Jean and which were Phoenix inspired. Only in hindsight do things look well orchestrated.

It's also worth noting that almost the entire staff of editors and co-writers that Claremont was working with were women. Louise Simonson, Ann Nocenti, etc. All the kink stuff wasn't him alone in a vaccuum, it was a whole group of people writing the kind of soap opera that they would want to read.

 

[Giltia]

It's also worth noting that almost the entire staff of editors and co-writers that Claremont was working with were women. Louise Simonson, Ann Nocenti, etc. All the kink stuff wasn't him alone in a vaccuum, it was a whole group of people writing the kind of soap opera that they would want to read.

Hence my comment about him and his generation being a product of their time. I'm also not 100% sure how much infuence they actually had over his ideas. Either way I don't think the creepy underage relationships really have a place anywhere regardless of who wrote them.

 

[Buttholder]

Ya'll still have your cocks? Damn bros, mine popped off when I was a wee lad and left when it went to buy milk. To this day, it never came back and pissing is a bitch.

I woke up this morning and my penis was missing again.

I just got through reading about 300-ish pages of this thread while looking for ch 2 teasers, and realized I couldn't stop even when I found them- you're all a bunch of lunatics, and I love it.

I have roughly 17,000 questions, only one of which I can remember at the moment (sorry if it's been answered- 300 pages in 2 days, I'm sure I missed lots of stuff). Many moons ago, in the Before Times, ShinyBoots gave some insight into the girls' quirks about how they're not just sexy kinks- they're unhealthy coping mechanisms. I can see that for each of the girls, and last time I played (0.7b, before I read any of this thread) I got that feeling from Rogue's hesitance to even order her own food during dates.

My concern is... well, I'm into those quirks- at least, the non-femdom ones. But as into them as I am, I'd rather rip out my own toenails than hurt the girls in any genuine way. Will we be able to- while those quirks are active- actively realize how harmful they can be, help the girls overcome their issues, and engage those quirks in a healthy, kinky way? Or will they always be emotional crutches?

OH ALSO- I remembered a second question. It's also been said that my man Spidey has his own selection of ladies, if I read that right. I imagine they include MJ and Felicia; is that correct? Who else is Peter porking? And who else in Earth-69 has their own gaggle of gals/guys?

With the former, it's something we'll be actively addressing as time goes on. It's something we've had many a discussion about: when it comes to stuff like Rogue's obvious depression, it's not something that just 'goes away' or you can 'cure', it's an ongoing struggle and if you can manage it or learn to live with it, you're doing better than a good 80% of people who have to deal with it. But just because you're fiercely protective of your loved ones or you like getting a little naughty in the bedroom, it doesn't mean you're completely fucked in the head. Some women like the daddy kink because it feels naughty, not because they had no strong male role models in their life growing up. Lots of people like being submissive or being spanked because, at the end of the day, it feels good to them, not because they have a masochistic psychological need for pain. And, at the risk of sounding incredibly artsy-fartsy wanky, the story we're planning is meant to be a journey, and part of that is helping the cast understand who and what they are. There's some stuff we have planned for chapter 2 that I'd love to be able to go into, since it covers a lot of 'what is unhealthy/what is part of her actual sexuality', but you'll just have to wait and see. Someone give me a shout when it's over with though, I'll give people a brief rundown.

Oh, and as for the latter, I think Shiny will put rat poison in my energy drinks if I say too much.

It's also worth noting that almost the entire staff of editors and co-writers that Claremont was working with were women. All the kink stuff wasn't him alone in a vaccuum, it was a whole group of people writing the kind of soap opera that they would want to read.

Worth remembering as well, that, at the time Claremont took over, and for a long time after, the X-Men was completely ignored. It'd been nothing but reprints for years, so he was allowed to do whatever he wanted without much oversight for years. And, when you get down to it, it was harder to notice the subtext because people didn't talk about this shit openly. Yeah, now, all the bondage gear, the Damsel In Distress motifs and everything stick out like a sore thumb, but back then, it went over everyone's heads. And in those days, comics were still primarily thought of as a medium for kids, adults weren't looking at them and asking why Young Billy's funnybooks have so much corsetry and leather and lace, so they were able to get away with a lot more.

 

[RandomNumber]

I'm also not 100% sure how much infuence they actually had over his ideas.

There's a documentary called "Claremont's X-Men" that would suggest they had more than you'd think.

Either way I don't think the creepy underage relationships really have a place anywhere regardless of who wrote them.

You'll have to be more specific who you're referencing with this example since all I can think of is Kitty Pryde but Colossus refused her advances until the Whedon run when she was much older, and she was suddenly aged up in order to make the Pete Wisdom relationship happen, although I'd still agree that it never should've.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

People are talking as if comics or comic inspired things didn't always have weird points.
Go check any comic run after Clairmont and tell me there is nothing peculiar about them.

I'm struggling to remember underage relationships. Age gap of some form maybe but it's hard to know exactly how extreme they were in those days because the exact character ages weren't brought up much.

 

[Giltia]

You'll have to be more specific who you're referencing with this example since all I can think of is Kitty Pryde but Colossus refused her advances until the Whedon run when she was much older, and she was suddenly aged up in order to make the Pete Wisdom relationship happen, although I'd still agree that it never should've.

Him and Byrne kept having a thing for pairing kitty with men older than her, calremont kept pushing for Gambit and Kitty also, there is also Rogue and Magneto, whiltst this one isn't technically underage the implied power dynamic there is that of the old creepy old teacher and young student trope.

I might be stretching here, but going back and reading older runs now with a fresh perspective makes me uncomfortable when things like this crop up.

 

[Hazeti]

Going back and reading older runs now with a fresh perspective makes me uncomfortable when things like this crop up.

I am glad someone said this

 

[RandomNumber]

I'll give you Magneto and Rogue. I think EVERY X-Men fan prefers to block that shit out and pretend it never happened, to the point that X-Men '97 repeating it became a big complaint that, for some people, "ruined" an otherwise surprisingly well-executed revival.

 

[drunkenrioter]

There's some stuff we have planned for chapter 2 that I'd love to be able to go into, since it covers a lot of 'what is unhealthy/what is part of her actual sexuality', but you'll just have to wait and see.

This is probably the best answer I could realistically hope for- and it's good enough for me. I was somewhat worried y'all would just leave it at "if you want these fun kinks, you're enabling their issues, you monster". Happy to see I was wrong. Or at least that it's more nuanced than that and that you're gonna dig into it, wherever it leads.

Oh, and as for the latter, I think Shiny will put rat poison in my energy drinks if I say too much.

I am both disappointed and delighted.

 

[Giltia]

I'll give you Magneto and Rogue. I think EVERY X-Men fan prefers to block that shit out and pretend it never happened, to the point that X-Men '97 repeating it became a big complaint that, for some people, "ruined" an otherwise surprisingly well-executed revival.

Yup, that whole plot point coming back again makes me feel it was added for the drama or to make us feel uncomfortable.
Poor Remy

 

[SerHawkes]

-Thread discussing Psylocke's style-

-Walks in, sits on a stool, lights a cigarette, takes a drags, blows smoke out-

I like Oni's Psylocke style.

-Walks out-

 

[Buttholder]

This is probably the best answer I could realistically hope for- and it's good enough for me. I was somewhat worried y'all would just leave it at "if you want these fun kinks, you're enabling their issues, you monster". Happy to see I was wrong. Or at least that it's more nuanced than that and that you're gonna dig into it, wherever it leads.

Nah, we're avoiding the whole 'curing her problems with penis' thing, because it's just bad/lazy writing, but we do want the cast to be in a place of acceptance of who and what they are at some point. 'You can be into extreme/weird kinks and still be a good person' isn't quite the moral of the story, but it's definitely the title of a few chapters.

 

[SerHawkes]

we're avoiding the whole 'curing her problems with penis' thing

What about curing her with a strong oral game? Would that work or no?

 

[Knight]

Nah, we're avoiding the whole 'curing her problems with penis' thing, because it's just bad/lazy writing, but we do want the cast to be in a place of acceptance of who and what they are at some point. 'You can be into extreme/weird kinks and still be a good person' isn't quite the moral of the story, but it's definitely the title of a few chapters.

I get what you are going for but lets both be honest, this is a porn game. People WANT to fix the girls with dick.