Recommending The thread for the NOT recommended games

[guidedbyvoices]

In the story-first games thread many of us felt the need for a thread where anyone could UNrecommend games, specially if they are popular or considered as great, with the reasons why.

The current situation is:

• If you are critical of a game in its official thread, the standard response is "If you don't like this game then why are you here, just forget it exists and leave this thread already". The expected social custom is for official games to be populated by fans of the game, and only light and partial criticising is allowed (i.e. you can say "I didn't like that subplot because...", but not "I hate this whole game because ..." without getting said answer.
• If you don't like a game but you want to fully explain the reasons why and to engage in a conversation about it, it's less likely that in the official thread it would be read by other people which share your opinion, because if they don't like a game, likely they won't be reading about it.
• There are very popular games which are supposed to be 10/10 for everyone, but you could consider they are 5/10, or 0/10, or -10/10. For every critic they get, there are many more fans praising it, which create the general perception of the game being flawless.
• There is little sense in unrecommending an author's first game, which is barely a testing project and got 10 total downloads, because everyone will take for granted the game isn't interesting enough. But there is a lot of sense in discussing why one of those games which always get a free pass might not be 100% perfect, or why they would be outright trash for you.
• If you don't want to read any critical opinion whatsoever, you are safe from those if you never enter a thread like this one. It's a place for the people who enjoy discussing games but without offending others.

Playing games take time/effort/money/the like, and it's a massive turn off when a game doesn't meet your expectations because you could only read the positive opinions beforehand and none of the critical ones.

 

[morphnet]

Instead of making a game bashing thread in recommendation, that will likely end up unseen on page 5, would it not make more sense to make a thread in general discussions or Off topic on how to structure, word and leave a proper review? This way you can "warn" people about a game in a constructive and helpful way.

 

[guidedbyvoices]

Leap of Faith, commonly shortened as "LOF". For reasons totally unknown to me this is considered as a reference AVN, but I just can't understand why:

(The original post is there, but please follow the conversation in this thread instead)
https://f95zone.to/threads/story-first-games.86340/post-15194283

These are the reasons why I think the game has a TERRIBLE story development and interactions with women, and NOBODY interested in story heavy games should play it:


1º Women throw themselves at the protagonist for no reason at all. Even a rockstar singer he didn't know beforehand does it after a 2 minutes chance conversation WTF It's the most unreal thing I ever saw in a story, and I'm including fantasy games with magic, hentai games etc... This is the typical hentai experience but this was supposed to be a game with a serious story.


2º Story development and interaction with women looks like it was written by a 12 years old boy with 0 experience about real, actual 18 to 50 women. Except for one character (more on this on 3º point), they don't talk like that, they don't think like that, they don't act like that and they for sure don't interact with a nobody man like that.


3º The main LI is a textbook young BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) with suicidal tendencies. This is the point I might be more biased to think this isn't any kind of groundbreaking element in the history of storytelling, because if you never knew one you might be impacted. But if you had any kind of dating experience (either fuckboi or just looking for a LTR) or if you happened to interact with one for a mid to long period of time, then they aren't any kind of positive surprise to you. You wouldn't feel sorry for them and wouldn't want to have any of it with them, because you would know they are trouble asking for help they will reject when offered, among many other toxic behaviours.


This is the most realistic character in the game, I suppose it's because I read somewhere that the author based this game on her daughter, which commited suicide, so he knew BPDs well. It's an odd thing to do a tribute to your suicided daughter in the form of a porn game, but that's the way it was. The other women are taken out of a 12 years old boy fantasy, very shocking for a man which had sons, you can presume he had to deal with at least a woman.


4º I couldn't put up with the game for long, but from what I know from my gameplay experience and what I read from others, you get a hentai harem in place just to be required to end up with only one. And the story is presented, as hard as it could, for you to end up with the BPD. Really? The game sets up a hentai harem for you just to be REQUIRED to choose only one? I get it had to be the BPD because it's the author own daughter, but then why setting up the harem story.


5º I couldn't put up with the game for long enough to check this myself, but I know from reading spoilers that the protagonist was married to the perfect, loving and caring woman, which dumped him by suddenly disappearing, and it results she did it because she was a spy. LOL WTF then again hentai fantasy here, real life spy women are cold, soulless whores which would NEVER marry a nice guy AND THEN REGRET DUMPING HIM. They might marry a nice guy if it suits them, but they would never care about it, they would just ride onto the next dick with absolutely no regrets, because all they care about is they themselves.


I couldn't finish the game but I'm sure the end is a shitshow as shitty as the beginning and mid parts.


I just can't understand how the game became as famous and as well rated, it's really subpar at every possible level, I thought it might be because it was released many years ago (like in 2016 or something like that) and it was ground breaking then, but no, it was finished in 2022 so it's not old.

 

[guidedbyvoices]

Instead of making a game bashing thread in recommendation, that will likely end up unseen on page 5, would it not make more sense to make a thread in general discussions or Off topic on how to structure, word and leave a proper review? This way you can "warn" people about a game in a constructive and helpful way.

How isn't constructive and helpful to fully explain every reason why a game is unrecommended by you? Specially the games which are generally regarded as being above any scrutiny because they are very popular.

 

[morphnet]

How isn't constructive and helpful to fully explain every reason why a game is unrecommended by you? Specially the games which are generally regarded as being above any scrutiny because they are very popular.

Well,

1. When members log in and browse the front page they don't see "Recommendations & Identification" and think "there's a place to find games NOT recommended"

How isn't constructive and helpful

2. The thread title is "The thread for the NOT recommended games" and you are only focusing on one aspect, the story, which would be fine if the threads title was "The thread for the NOT recommended books". If you intend to not recommend a game, basing it off of only one aspect is not helpful.

"The thread for the NOT recommended stories in games" would be a more fitting title if you are only going to focus on that part. It is also not constructive as it will not help change anything.

fully explain every reason why a game is unrecommended by you?

3. The example you provided is not "fully explaining every reason why a game is unrecommended" but is an argumentative rant based on flawed expectations and false assumptions. To explain further,

a) You admit several times that you did not play the full game, so all opinions are based on limited interaction.
(points 4, 5 and insert after 5)

b) You assume that serious means realistic and bases their expectation on that. (point1)

c) You took out all chances of it being constructive by repeatedly referring to writing "like a 12 year old boy" and "12 year old boys fantasy"
(point 2 and insert after point 3)

d) You expect everyone playing to have had the same personal experiences that you had and ignore the use of writing techniques to illicit responses from the player.
(point 3)

e) While yes, some games are tagged incorrectly, this one was not. Neither the overview nor the tags or genre ever implied or suggested that this was a harem game and the availability of multiple LI's does NOT guarantee a game will end in a harem. In this case assumptions on the part of the players is NOT the fault of the game.
(point 4)


f) Point 5 is ridiculous "real life spy women are cold, soulless whores which would NEVER marry a nice guy AND THEN REGET DUMPING HIM."

So YOU know many real life spy women do you? or are you going off the stories and movies that have had spy women in them? Also are you trying to insist that those stories and movies versions of spy women are the only acceptable ones and that no other versions of a spy woman can exist?

Again, your personal expectations of what a spy woman should be and your assumption that the type in the game could not exist. This is not the game or dev's fault.

g) The comment about the end is pure speculation on your part as you admit you never finished it, so why take another dig at the game if you are trying to be helpful? maybe because the entire post was a rant and not a helpful and constructive post?

So how can you say "reasons fully explained" when you did not fully play the game and your explanations are filled with flawed expectations and false assumptions?

Specially the games which are generally regarded as being above any scrutiny because they are very popular.

There is a BIG difference between scrutiny and abuse, creating posts that smack of entitlement, insult the dev and take every opportunity to be combative and argumentative does not fall under scrutiny, constructive or helpful.

If you look at off-topic, there are a number of game threads there where members are bashing games to their hearts content, a thread bashing multiple games would fit better there. If your example is anything to go by, this thread is not here to help people avoid bad games but is instead a place for people to rant / vent.

 

[Mario4don]

5º I couldn't put up with the game for long enough to check this myself, but I know from reading spoilers that the protagonist was married to the perfect, loving and caring woman, which dumped him by suddenly disappearing, and it results she did it because she was a spy. LOL WTF then again hentai fantasy here, real life spy women are cold, soulless whores which would NEVER marry a nice guy AND THEN REGRET DUMPING HIM. They might marry a nice guy if it suits them, but they would never care about it, they would just ride onto the next dick with absolutely no regrets, because all they care about is they themselves.

Well Stephanie wasn't MC's wife but she was only his girlfriend, so your thoughts on this topic don't make any sense here and only show that you haven't played the game and probably formed your opinion about it only by reading a bunch of other people's comments.

 

[yossa999]

Well,

1. When members log in and browse the front page they don't see "Recommendations & Identification" and think "there's a place to find games NOT recommended"



2. The thread title is "The thread for the NOT recommended games" and you are only focusing on one aspect, the story, which would be fine if the threads title was "The thread for the NOT recommended books". If you intend to not recommend a game, basing it off of only one aspect is not helpful.

"The thread for the NOT recommended stories in games" would be a more fitting title if you are only going to focus on that part. It is also not constructive as it will not help change anything.



3. The example you provided is not "fully explaining every reason why a game is unrecommended" but is an argumentative rant based on flawed expectations and false assumptions. To explain further,

a) You admit several times that you did not play the full game, so all opinions are based on limited interaction.
(points 4, 5 and insert after 5)

b) You assume that serious means realistic and bases their expectation on that. (point1)

c) You took out all chances of it being constructive by repeatedly referring to writing "like a 12 year old boy" and "12 year old boys fantasy"
(point 2 and insert after point 3)

d) You expect everyone playing to have had the same personal experiences that you had and ignore the use of writing techniques to illicit responses from the player.
(point 3)

e) While yes, some games are tagged incorrectly, this one was not. Neither the overview nor the tags or genre ever implied or suggested that this was a harem game and the availability of multiple LI's does NOT guarantee a game will end in a harem. In this case assumptions on the part of the players is NOT the fault of the game.
(point 4)

View attachment 4199380
f) Point 5 is ridiculous "real life spy women are cold, soulless whores which would NEVER marry a nice guy AND THEN REGET DUMPING HIM."

So YOU know many real life spy women do you? or are you going off the stories and movies that have had spy women in them? Also are you trying to insist that those stories and movies versions of spy women are the only acceptable ones and that no other versions of a spy woman can exist?

Again, your personal expectations of what a spy woman should be and your assumption that the type in the game could not exist. This is not the game or dev's fault.

g) The comment about the end is pure speculation on your part as you admit you never finished it, so why take another dig at the game if you are trying to be helpful? maybe because the entire post was a rant and not a helpful and constructive post?

So how can you say "reasons fully explained" when you did not fully play the game and your explanations are filled with flawed expectations and false assumptions?



There is a BIG difference between scrutiny and abuse, creating posts that smack of entitlement, insult the dev and take every opportunity to be combative and argumentative does not fall under scrutiny, constructive or helpful.

If you look at off-topic, there are a number of game threads there where members are bashing games to their hearts content, a thread bashing multiple games would fit better there. If your example is anything to go by, this thread is not here to help people avoid bad games but is instead a place for people to rant / vent.

Bravo! Some of these arguments have already been made in this thread, but you took the trouble to clearly and consistently lay them out point by point.

The problem isn't that it's a criticism of LoF (I have a lot of complaints about that game myself), but that personal preferences are presented in the style of objective analysis, with statements like:
"these are the reasons why I think the game has a TERRIBLE story development and interactions with women, and NOBODY interested in story heavy games should play it"

Speaking of the female spy, I also find Agent Panda and all her storyline extremely ridiculous. On the other hand, I don’t know where the topic starter got the idea that the maximum similarity of the game characters with possible real prototypes (by the way, who does he compare Panda to?) is a necessary quality for an adult story-driven game. And why he guesed that Drifty was aiming to create a documentary-quality female spy character and failed. In my opinion, she looks no worse a spy than Sarah Walker (Yvonne Strahovski) in the TV series Chuck. Or Tom Cruise in all his secret agent roles. In my opinion, the level of authenticity and absurdity is the same, but most viewers enjoy watching these films. But LoF, where there is such a character, you have to refuse to play because of her.

However, this whole idea with the "rotten tomatoes" thread seems funny to me, I'll stock up on popcorn and see how much fuse the topic starter has to continue.

 

[c3p0]

morphnet do you need some?


Also most arguments against games are made from a very personnel view point and often have few objective points - same happen to the most positive overall like love fem LI 3 and tag 45, doesn't really help.

And good reviews does need work. Instead of writting 3 or more setence with why it is good or bad (Eg. MC is a simp, always unsure about himself. LI is simple directing the MC and pushing him and another one you can't have, even after all this time. Then new LI comes and filling the game without moving the story.).
Doesn't really help it is more a subjectiv report than a review.

In a review you should have different categories and rate them against some requirement, you must name before, then weight the induvidual ratings (eg. graphics 30%, story 30%, grammar 10%, bugs or absent of it 10%, gameplay 20%, music 10%, math skill 20%).
With that everyone can see why you've rate it as you have and how that score comes to it.

And yes, even if you eg. have a section characters where you give 0/5 for all the characters they have in the game, cause they too cliche and not deep and you give it 80% of the overall score and the rest of your categories all have 5/5, thus having an overall of 1/5 everone can follow and have their own conclusion about the game...

 

[morphnet]

Bravo! Some of these arguments have already been made in this thread, but you took the trouble to clearly and consistently lay them out point by point.

The problem isn't that it's a criticism of LoF (I have a lot of complaints about that game myself), but that personal preferences are presented in the style of objective analysis, with statements like:
"these are the reasons why I think the game has a TERRIBLE story development and interactions with women, and NOBODY interested in story heavy games should play it"

Speaking of the female spy, I also find Agent Panda and all her storyline extremely ridiculous. On the other hand, I don’t know where the topic starter got the idea that the maximum similarity of the game characters with possible real prototypes (by the way, who does he compare Panda to?) is a necessary quality for an adult story-driven game. And why he guesed that Drifty was aiming to create a documentary-quality female spy character and failed. In my opinion, she looks no worse a spy than Sarah Walker (Yvonne Strahovski) in the TV series Chuck. Or Tom Cruise in all his secret agent roles. In my opinion, the level of authenticity and absurdity is the same, but most viewers enjoy watching these films. But LoF, where there is such a character, you have to refuse to play because of her.

However, this whole idea with the "rotten tomatoes" thread seems funny to me, I'll stock up on popcorn and see how much fuse the topic starter has to continue.

I agree, I have a few complaints about the game myself but those are my personal preferences and I keep my hopes for a game separate from my expectations for a game.

As to what they were comparing the female spy to, I would guess it would be along the lines of the old world war 2 stories or bond movies. But as the game was made for entertainment and not a documentary the real question is, was it able to reach a large audience and were they able to enjoy it, which is something OP disregarded completely.

Seeing as how they felt the need to create a new thread just for this I think you should get some entertainment out of it

morphnet do you need some?
View attachment 4199637

Yes please my burned while I was writing that last reply >.<

Also most arguments against games are made from a very personnel view point and often have few objective points - same happen to the most positive overall like love fem LI 3 and tag 45, doesn't really help.

And good reviews does need work. Instead of writting 3 or more setence with why it is good or bad (Eg. MC is a simp, always unsure about himself. LI is simple directing the MC and pushing him and another one you can't have, even after all this time. Then new LI comes and filling the game without moving the story.).
Doesn't really help it is more a subjectiv report than a review.

In a review you should have different categories and rate them against some requirement, you must name before, then weight the induvidual ratings (eg. graphics 30%, story 30%, grammar 10%, bugs or absent of it 10%, gameplay 20%, music 10%, math skill 20%).
With that everyone can see why you've rate it as you have and how that score comes to it.

And yes, even if you eg. have a section characters where you give 0/5 for all the characters they have in the game, cause they too cliche and not deep and you give it 80% of the overall score and the rest of your categories all have 5/5, thus having an overall of 1/5 everone can follow and have their own conclusion about the game...

100% agree, now if only more people would follow this....

 

[Skullivan]

morphnet do you need some?

Also most arguments against games are made from a very personnel view point and often have few objective points - same happen to the most positive overall like love fem LI 3 and tag 45, doesn't really help.

And good reviews does need work. Instead of writting 3 or more setence with why it is good or bad (Eg. MC is a simp, always unsure about himself. LI is simple directing the MC and pushing him and another one you can't have, even after all this time. Then new LI comes and filling the game without moving the story.).
Doesn't really help it is more a subjectiv report than a review.

In a review you should have different categories and rate them against some requirement, you must name before, then weight the induvidual ratings (eg. graphics 30%, story 30%, grammar 10%, bugs or absent of it 10%, gameplay 20%, music 10%, math skill 20%).
With that everyone can see why you've rate it as you have and how that score comes to it.

And yes, even if you eg. have a section characters where you give 0/5 for all the characters they have in the game, cause they too cliche and not deep and you give it 80% of the overall score and the rest of your categories all have 5/5, thus having an overall of 1/5 everone can follow and have their own conclusion about the game...

I agree with your points about how to write reviews, but I personally don't care about number-based metrics and I don't write reviews with them either. I find them distracting and makes it easier for readers to just ignore the actual reviews.

I think it's good to break down reviews into categories and talking points, write succinct and sincerely, and then mention if you recommend the game and who might like it. You already have to put a number from 1-5 in stars just to write a review. Determining if character models as a whole, for instance, fits within a 1-5 or 1-10 metric seems overly myopic, especially if the following text almost contradicts it. IE: "Character Models 4/10: I think all the women in this game are hot except for Brenda who is fugly and shouldn't have been in the game, so it loses three points just for her."

In your example, your numbers adds up to 150%. And saying "graphics 30%" doesn't make any critical sense to me. Just write a few sentences telling me your thoughts on the graphics. I'm on a review page, I'm implicitly working to read other persons thoughts.

 

[c3p0]

In your example, your numbers adds up to 150%.

(eg. graphics 30%, story 30%, grammar 10%, bugs or absent of it 10%, gameplay 20%, music 10%, math skill 20%).

And about whose math skill do you I have talked about? But then again, it would end up at 130% not 150%.

Also *nerd modus* it doesn't matter at which precent values you end up, you can simple scale 130% to 100% easy.

 

[Skullivan]

And about whose math skill do you I have talked about? But then again, it would end up at 130% not 150%.

Also *nerd modus* it doesn't matter at which precent values you end up, you can simple scale 130% to 100% easy.

Egg on my face for a simple critical reading error. It still stands that the points don't matter and that numerical values are less helpful than actually written thoughts and opinions.

Another example: I may play a game and it's awful to play and everything about it is terrible and there's seemingly no way to improve it. So the overall review is 1 star. However, that game may have a kink in it that is hyper specific and not widely used, so a fan of that kink may give the game 5 stars just because that's the only way they're going to experience it. That makes them elevate all of their scores.

I had this experience with Lewd Town Adventures. I gave the game 3 stars overall, even though it's personally a 2 star game.
If I were to give the aspects of the game numerical value, then graphics and animation would be somewhere from 7/10-8/10, interface would be the same, writing would be 3/10-4/10, etc. However, the game is a failure and I give it a low score because of the tone. I don't like the tone of the game. It makes me feel bad. I don't think that's an easy thing to describe with numbers. If someone were to read my review and it has high numbers everywhere, a few low numbers, but then it has a 3 star rating, I've just created a confusing review. Same thing with Taffy Tales. Objectively a popular game that a lot of people enjoy, but I find it so mean-spirited and charmless that I don't like it. The game can be aesthetically and systematically a winner, but can lose me on tone or specific kinks. That's why numerical values are useless to me when it comes to critically considering a game. If I read a movie or book review with numberes I'd think they were trash, and it's largely why MetaCritic, GoodReads and RottenTomatoes are garbage systems.

 

[c3p0]

Egg on my face for a simple critical reading error. It still stands that the points don't matter and that numerical values are less helpful than actually written thoughts and opinions.

Another example: I may play a game and it's awful to play and everything about it is terrible and there's seemingly no way to improve it. So the overall review is 1 star. However, that game may have a kink in it that is hyper specific and not widely used, so a fan of that kink may give the game 5 stars just because that's the only way they're going to experience it. That makes them elevate all of their scores.

I had this experience with Lewd Town Adventures. I gave the game 3 stars overall, even though it's personally a 2 star game.
If I were to give the aspects of the game numerical value, then graphics and animation would be somewhere from 7/10-8/10, interface would be the same, writing would be 3/10-4/10, etc. However, the game is a failure and I give it a low score because of the tone. I don't like the tone of the game. It makes me feel bad. I don't think that's an easy thing to describe with numbers. If someone were to read my review and it has high numbers everywhere, a few low numbers, but then it has a 3 star rating, I've just created a confusing review. Same thing with Taffy Tales. Objectively a popular game that a lot of people enjoy, but I find it so mean-spirited and charmless that I don't like it. The game can be aesthetically and systematically a winner, but can lose me on tone or specific kinks. That's why numerical values are useless to me when it comes to critically considering a game. If I read a movie or book review with numberes I'd think they were trash, and it's largely why MetaCritic, GoodReads and RottenTomatoes are garbage systems.

I don't disagree that simple only rating without describing what or how is good pratice. Graphic 4/5 can mean anything. If you write the reasoning why you think the grahpics (or any other category you like) is as high or low as you think it is, that helps. Rating is simple needed for a review.

I've already seen reviews like "All above perfect, but I dislike the midget LI, therefore 1/5". Make no real sense at all. So if you giving out best rating and then, with one category putting it back to lowerst of the lowest, then you should (even more clearly) write it out. In this example all 10 cateogories each 0.1%, the "I don't like midget LI" 99% of the full score, thus 1/5 (rounded up).

Make it much more clear to any reader what is behind the rating. And, if you disagree with the rating, simple as you think writing is more important than graphics (or vice versa) you could simple use the subcategories and recalculate the overall rating.

(Simple) Rating score are always bad system, cause they try to map a complex subject to only one number. Simple as that I give you two cars Ford Focus and Dogde Ram, first I give 3/5 and second 2/5 without more explanation, based on what I rate and how I weight the different aspect, both cars could end up with 1 to 5 on 1 to 5 scale and only a numerical value itself say nothing.

 

[guidedbyvoices]

1. When members log in and browse the front page they don't see "Recommendations & Identification" and think "there's a place to find games NOT recommended"

I've check all subforums and this looks like the most appropriate to me, because it's a game recommendation to NOT play one, which many times is an even better recommendation because it could save your time/effort/money/the like.

2. The thread title is "The thread for the NOT recommended games" and you are only focusing on one aspect, the story, which would be fine if the threads title was "The thread for the NOT recommended books". If you intend to not recommend a game, basing it off of only one aspect is not helpful.

For this thread I'm absolutely not focusing in either only one aspect, or only in the story. The only remotely closer reason I could think why you thought that, is that the idea for a thread about unrecommending games came from another thread which is dedicated to game stories.

But I have fully and extensively explained the reasons for this thread in the opening message already, which I'm not sure if you actually read.

It is also not constructive as it will not help change anything.

Of course it could help change something, the fact that people would be able to read critical opinions about games which usually don't get them, because they are either buried by fanbois or shielded by a faux prestige which was created in echo chambers, is reason enough for this thread to be constructive and helpful. Also it could help people to play games which are better suited for them, or at least to avoid the ones which clearly aren't. Only positive vibes here.

is an argumentative rant based on flawed expectations and false assumptions

That's only your opinion, not actual reality.

a) You admit several times that you did not play the full game, so all opinions are based on limited interaction.

I openly say this is one of the very few AVNs, games in general, movies or books that I couldn't finish because it was horrible, insufferable, utterly bad, devoid of any kind of redeeming qualities. And that I could have stopped my suffering way earlier if not for the fact that the game is considered as one of the best AVNs, I was waiting for the good part but I was only getting pissed in the face.

I clearly stated until which point I played the game, and from where I got the idea of what was in the remaining part, which I think is less than 25% of the whole game. Playing 75% of a game is enough to have an opinion, specially if it's 75% of such a terrible game.

Pulling myself through the remaining 25% would definitely not change my "interaction" from "limited" to "complete". I'm sure you wouldn't need to eat 100% of something disgusting to know it's disgusting and that you don't want or need to eat 100% of it in order to get a more complete opinion on the fact.

b) You assume that serious means realistic and bases their expectation on that.

I assume a game with dwarves and elves is more fantastic than a game in which the MC is the male Mary Sue of modern times, but it wasn't the case.

Don't worry about second-person with your Newspeak, it's third-person singular and plural where there's a minefield.

c) You took out all chances of it being constructive by repeatedly referring to writing "like a 12 year old boy" and "12 year old boys fantasy"

It's the more precise analogy I can think of when reading those unreal situations and dialogues, it's not meant to be an insult but the most accurate depiction of the showcased lack of actual knowledge of the real adult world. F95zone is, quoting from "About us":

F95zone is an adult community where you can find tons of great adult games and comics [...]

So adult is the key word here, and definitely writting like a 12 years old boy isn't adult.

d) You expect everyone playing to have had the same personal experiences that you had and ignore the use of writing techniques to illicit responses from the player.

I don't, that's why I said this:

"This is the point I might be more biased to think this isn't any kind of groundbreaking element in the history of storytelling [...]"

It's as clear as anyone can be, I clearly acknowledge my opinion about that part might be biased because of my personal experience.

Nothing along the lines of "You expect everyone playing to have had the same personal experiences that you had".

e) While yes, some games are tagged incorrectly, this one was not. Neither the overview nor the tags or genre ever implied or suggested that this was a harem game and the availability of multiple LI's does NOT guarantee a game will end in a harem. In this case assumptions on the part of the players is NOT the fault of the game.

I couldn't care less if that piece of work of a game had a full harem or not, EVERYTHING else displayed about either monogamous relationships, or casual sex, or promiscuous sex is wrong.

Have you known a lot of spies?

So YOU know many real life spy women do you?

Not by the dozen but I've known enough, male and female. Also an ex-girlfriend of mine was approached to become one.

This might be strange for most but it isn't uncommon in main cities, cities with big universities and areas with big military bases, it's where most of them are and are inducted.

or are you going off the stories and movies that have had spy women in them?

Because I've dealt with real life spies, I can tell the real spy characters from the unreal and fake ones.

And also with BPD women.

Also are you trying to insist that those stories and movies versions of spy women are the only acceptable ones and that no other versions of a spy woman can exist?

I definitely prefer the porn version of female spies, very hot and with the sweet and easy sex, and none of the manipulation and shady shit they engage in. So it's not like I want real life spies in my porn games, but I don't like the 12 years old boy version of a female spy passing as if it was somehow based on reality or even realistic.

Again, your personal expectations of what a spy woman should be and your assumption that the type in the game could not exist. This is not the game or dev's fault.

That's only your opinion, not actual reality.

My personal expectation of what a spy woman should be has nothing to do with why that depiction of a spy woman is as fake as it could be.

That kind of female spy DOESN'T exist, plain and simple, it's not my opinion but actual reality: Women with morals aren't recruited as spies because they couldn't perform their job and also because they would have a higher chance of quitting or changing sides because of the shit they are required to do and see.

It's more probable for you to find a real life elf, dwarf or orc than a female spy like that.

g) The comment about the end is pure speculation on your part as you admit you never finished it, so why take another dig at the game if you are trying to be helpful? maybe because the entire post was a rant and not a helpful and constructive post?

I'm being helpful already by warning about that shitty game, with a detailed explanation about how and why it's bad and wrong. I already addresed why eating the remaining 25% manure isn't going to change the fact that it's manure and that sadly I already ate 75% of it because I was misleaded by its prestige as a reference AVN.

So how can you say "reasons fully explained" when you did not fully play the game and your explanations are filled with flawed expectations and false assumptions?

I expected the game to be at the very least serviceable. It isn't like I had an extremely high expectation, more like I was massively disappointed because the game should have never become popular. There are lots and lots of games which are much better but much less famous.

It's like living in a world where movies like The Room are considered among the best but others like L.A. Confidential are unknown indie projects, it should be the other way around because Leap of Faith is the The Room of AVNs.

There is a BIG difference between scrutiny and abuse, creating posts that smack of entitlement, insult the dev and take every opportunity to be combative and argumentative does not fall under scrutiny, constructive or helpful.

If you look at off-topic, there are a number of game threads there where members are bashing games to their hearts content, a thread bashing multiple games would fit better there. If your example is anything to go by, this thread is not here to help people avoid bad games but is instead a place for people to rant / vent.

If I wanted a thread to just spill hate on games, without any intention of it being helpful for someone, then I would have started it at off-topic because it looks like the most appropriate place for it.

So instead of attacking me, you could actually give your unrecommended games and your reasons for it.

Well Stephanie wasn't MC's wife but she was only his girlfriend, so your thoughts on this topic don't make any sense here

If she wasn't his wife, she was his longtime girlfriend which left him heart broken for years because of her sudden disappearance, unable to meet other women and when they met again by chance, she expected him to immediately fall for her again. That's wifey enough for me to care about remembering if they married or not. In fact I remember too much information about this game, I played it months ago and I definitely don't want to remember any of it.

and only show that you haven't played the game and probably formed your opinion about it only by reading a bunch of other people's comments.

Well, if you don't believe it, feel free to refund me, I discovered the game was shit too late for one:

Spoiler

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Further proof I endured 8 hours of this shit:

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Further proof I sadly own this game, this is the library game caption:

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On the other hand, I don’t know where the topic starter got the idea that the maximum similarity of the game characters with possible real prototypes (by the way, who does he compare Panda to?) is a necessary quality for an adult story-driven game. And why he guesed that Drifty was aiming to create a documentary-quality female spy character and failed.

I don't know, the fact that the game was allegedly a tribute to the author's SUICIDED DAUGHTER might have created the ludicrous impression to me that it could be related to real events, or at the very least that the fiction parts were light. I know it's a silly assumption, but forgive me.

But maybe his daughter didn't suicide, or he didn't even have one (which to me it's much more fitting, given how his knowledge of women is limited to BPDs).

In my opinion, she looks no worse a spy than Sarah Walker (Yvonne Strahovski) in the TV series Chuck. Or Tom Cruise in all his secret agent roles.

Chuck is comedy, but even inside comedy the two spies (she and Adam Baldwin) are based on their real life roles:

• She is hot (and not the typical USA beauty they always put in movies and tv shows) and could seduce a dead man, but also emotionally as cold as they come and it took the nerd protagonist the whole fucking 4 or 5 seasons to make her fall for him (and it only happened because it's both a tv show and a comedy)
• He is an ice cold-blooded killer and ruthless manipulator, it took him the whole fucking 4 or 5 seasons to become somewhat human (and again, it only happened because it's both a tv show and a comedy)

Did you see? They ARE based on real life spies.

Or Tom Cruise in all his secret agent roles.

Mission Impossible 1 was somewhat realistic for a movie which is more of an action movie than a spies movie. Jack Reacher 1 is also the same, he plays a very well written spy-like character (cold, ruthless, sociopathic, used to survive by being oportunistic etc... the spin is that he manages to keep a moral), it's based on well written books by an author which is knowledgeable about the shit which goes behind the scenes in the military.

As to what they were comparing the female spy to, I would guess it would be along the lines of the old world war 2 stories or bond movies.

I already explained this, but talking about fictional spy stories, there are TONS of books about real life spies and based on reality, written by authors which were either spies themselves, or do know the profession very well, like Frederick Forsyth or John le Carré.

For movies, Pierce Brosnan in The fourth protocol, Goldeneye and The tailor of Panama is a great example of a male spy based on reality: he is cold, ruthless, manipulative, uses and dumps those around him and is careless about danger.

But as the game was made for entertainment and not a documentary the real question is, was it able to reach a large audience and were they able to enjoy it, which is something OP disregarded completely.

I said several times that I can't understand how that shitty game became popular. Are you even reading my messages? Maybe you could explain why do you think that fame is warranted...

 

[c3p0]

If I wanted a thread to just spill hate on games, without any intention of it being helpful for someone, then I would have started it at off-topic because it looks like the most appropriate place for it.

And for sure a thread of unrecommmend games will do that...
People don't care. If I care abaout the spy genre, I would search for spy and go into either recommendation threads or seeking threads.
https://f95zone.to/search/421907144...=1&c[container_only]=1&c[nodes][0]=104&o=date
Seen your "great" unrecommmend game thread here?

Also if I wanted to know if Leap of Faith (or any other game) is good or bad, I would search the reviews, in the game thread itself or ask other users I know, what they think about. I wouldn't search in a general "This game are bad/good thread".

Also your own thread has not even 500 views, where the MVT (most view threads) on the first site (sorted by views) goes from 6M to over 300k of views, thus making your own thread comes on page 32.


This is a rant thread, wanted to be rant thread or do you think every other user that rant in a thread make their thread directly in the OT zone?
Most of the:

Had been made in the Site feedback section. Yours was posted here, but could still be going into OT section. Also I'm sure it will go into data nirvana as people don't care and if a thread is not visible on the first page of any subforum chance get very fast very low that somebody else cares about your thread.

 

[yossa999]

I don't know, the fact that the game was allegedly a tribute to the author's SUICIDED DAUGHTER might have created the ludicrous impression to me that it could be related to real events, or at the very least that the fiction parts were light. I know it's a silly assumption, but forgive me.

But maybe his daughter didn't suicide, or he didn't even have one (which to me it's much more fitting, given how his knowledge of women is limited to BPDs).

I'm not even going to comment on this bullshit.

I think that the author, despite all his grief, tried to maintain optimism and share it with other people, to show through his characters that, despite all the despair and depression they could find themselves in, a happy ending is still possible, and in life there is not only a dark side, but also many fun and joyful moments and wonderful people for whom it is worth living.

Chuck is comedy, but even inside comedy the two spies (she and Adam Baldwin) are based on their real life roles:

• She is hot (and not the typical USA beauty they always put in movies and tv shows) and could seduce a dead man, but also emotionally as cold as they come and it took the nerd protagonist the whole fucking 4 or 5 seasons to make her fall for him (and it only happened because it's both a tv show and a comedy)
• He is an ice cold-blooded killer and ruthless manipulator, it took him the whole fucking 4 or 5 seasons to become somewhat human (and again, it only happened because it's both a tv show and a comedy)

Did you see? They ARE based on real life spies.

No, of course I don't see that, I see two comedy characters in "spy hats." But also I see that it seems for you the main trait of a female spy is to act cold and ignore the MC for as long as possible, and then pounce on him with all the unrealized libido accumulated over many years of feigned ignoring.

I feel like I've seen this somewhere before... Wait, isn't that the Agent Panda who dumped the MC for years without warning (the famous forgotten letter in the shirt doesn't count), was cold and ruthless, showed no signs of life and made the MC suffer all those years, and then suddenly appeared out of nowhere and jumped on him like a hungry zombie?

If you read the memoirs of former spies that do not relate to the periods of world wars, then in most cases these are absolutely unremarkable people, leading the most ordinary life, trying as much as possible to become a typical local inhabitant in the area where they have infiltrated. If the main trait of the locals is cold calmness - then they will behave the same way, if the locals arrange traditional Saturday orgies - our spies will be there too.

Anyway, your opinion is an opinion that does not need a validation. Just like mine.

 

[yossa999]

And for sure a thread of unrecommmend games will do that...
People don't care. If I care abaout the spy genre, I would search for spy and go into either recommendation threads or seeking threads.
https://f95zone.to/search/421907144...=1&c[container_only]=1&c[nodes][0]=104&o=date
Seen your "great" unrecommmend game thread here?

Also if I wanted to know if Leap of Faith (or any other game) is good or bad, I would search the reviews, in the game thread itself or ask other users I know, what they think about. I wouldn't search in a general "This game are bad/good thread".

Also your own thread has not even 500 views, where the MVT (most view threads) on the first site (sorted by views) goes from 6M to over 300k of views, thus making your own thread comes on page 32.
View attachment 4205036

This is a rant thread, wanted to be rant thread or do you think every other user that rant in a thread make their thread directly in the OT zone?
Most of the:
View attachment 4205039
Have been made in the Site feedback section. Yours is made here, could still be going into OT, but I'm more sure it will go into data nirvana as people don't care and if a thread is not visible on the first site of any subforum chance get very fast very low that somebody else cares about your thread.

And I would be glad if this thread became popular and people would post their rants here instead of constantly trashing on-topic threads with repetitious "No harem? Boo, this game is crap and so is the developer. If only there was a harem..."

 

[morphnet]

I've check all subforums and this looks like the most appropriate to me, because it's a game recommendation to NOT play one, which many times is an even better recommendation because it could save your time/effort/money/the like.

Again, your thread is NOT about not recommending games but a place to rant. If you truly wanted to let people know if a specific game should or should not be played you would use the review system.

For this thread I'm absolutely not focusing in either only one aspect, or only in the story. The only remotely closer reason I could think why you thought that, is that the idea for a thread about unrecommending games came from another thread which is dedicated to game stories.

Or it could be from the fact that your first post about a game focuses solely on writing and story. You mention nothing about
game mechanics
sound
graphic
gameplay
difficulty
bugs

Of course it could help change something, the fact that people would be able to read critical opinions about games which usually don't get them, because they are either buried by fanbois or shielded by a faux prestige which was created in echo chambers, is reason enough for this thread to be constructive and helpful.

You mean OTHER than the review section, the CORRECT place to recommend or not recommend playing that specific game?




could it be that you made this thread because you know the review section doesn't allow your style of game bashing?

Also it could help people to play games which are better suited for them,

which would require recommendations which this thread is the opposite of....

Only positive vibes here.

" written by a 12 years old boy with 0 experience about real, actual 18 to 50 women. "
" The other women are taken out of a 12 years old boy fantasy, very shocking for a man which had sons, you can presume he had to deal with at least a woman. "

You and I clearly have VERY different ideas of what "positive vibes" means

That's only your opinion, not actual reality.

No it's an observation, with you mixing up "serious story" and "realistic story", with you complaining about no harems in a game that never hinted, tagged or promised one etc. etc. etc.

Playing 75% of a game is enough to have an opinion, specially if it's 75% of such a terrible game.

75% is made up, without having finished the game you have no actual way of calculating how much was left and so no way to calculate how much you played.

I'm sure you wouldn't need to eat 100% of something disgusting to know it's disgusting and that you don't want or need to eat 100% of it in order to get a more complete opinion on the fact.

This is a flawed point, unless the meal is brought out piece by piece over months and the chef slowly tries to improve the next portion coming out.... trying to compare a complete meal served all at once with a incomplete game that releases updates months apart and the dev has time to get feed back, add things, fix bugs etc. makes no sense.

I assume

That is right, you assumed, that is on you.

It's the more precise analogy I can think of when reading those unreal situations and dialogues, it's not meant to be an insult but the most accurate depiction of the showcased lack of actual knowledge of the real adult world.

So you have read many stories written by 12 year olds? clearly you would have to in order to compare and then make the analogy.

Also you clearly made another mistake here, what makes you think a adult porn game HAS to take knowledge from "the real adult world" even if a porn game or story takes inspiration from the real world it's also meant to make fantasies come true.

Lastly, where in the tags, the overview or in the game itself does the game say, offer or imply it is meant to be a realistic, true to the real world representation?

Again, flawed expectations and false assumptions on your part, NONE of which the game encourages....

F95zone is, quoting from "About us":

F95zone is an adult community where you can find tons of great adult games and comics [...]

So adult is the key word here, and definitely writting like a 12 years old boy isn't adult.

As you keep bringing it up, again I ask:
So you have read many stories written by 12 year olds? clearly you would have to in order to compare and then make the analogy.

I don't, that's why I said this:

"This is the point I might be more biased to think this isn't any kind of groundbreaking element in the history of storytelling [...]"

It's as clear as anyone can be, I clearly acknowledge my opinion about that part might be biased because of my personal experience.

Except you CLAIM you are writing this for the benefit of others by pointing out the flaws and this is a flaw specific to you. So it would have no influence on anyone but you.

Also personal experiences of these types of cases differ, you ignore that and the fact that the dev might be using writing techniques to illicit responses from the player. By calling it a flaw you are saying only your experience is right and what the dev tried to do is wrong.

I couldn't care less if that piece of work of a game had a full harem or not,

You couldn't care less? well your point 4 seems to contradict that statement....

" 4º I couldn't put up with the game for long, but from what I know from my gameplay experience and what I read from others, you get a hentai harem in place just to be required to end up with only one. And the story is presented, as hard as it could, for you to end up with the BPD. Really? The game sets up a hentai harem for you just to be REQUIRED to choose only one? I get it had to be the BPD because it's the author own daughter, but then why setting up the harem story. "

That is one long winded "I couldn't care less", also if you couldn't care less then why list it as a flaw?

EVERYTHING else displayed about either monogamous relationships, or casual sex, or promiscuous sex is wrong.

except in porn games.... because it's... you know... a GAME

Not by the dozen but I've known enough, male and female. Also an ex-girlfriend of mine was approached to become one.

This might be strange for most but it isn't uncommon in main cities, cities with big universities and areas with big military bases, it's where most of them are and are inducted.

Ok let's for argument sake say that is even remotely true, YOU who is soooo fixated on realism and the real world, YOU are saying that because you know "Not by the dozen" but "enough" that you know what ALL of them are like, what ALL of them think, what ALL of them feel, how ALL of them act, ALL the time.....

Just re-read what YOU wrote in YOUR reply, then I would advice a trip to the hardware shop because at this rate you are going to run out of shovels very quickly....

So it's not like I want real life spies in my porn games, but I don't like the 12 years old boy version of a female spy passing as if it was somehow based on reality or even realistic.

You know you are just making stuff up now right? If you are going to make outrageous claims you should at least back it up with some sort of proof?

So where is your proof that the dev was basing the spy in reality or realistic spies.
Where is your proof that the dev was not maybe just inspired in part or whole by them?

and can you even tell the difference between based on and inspired by? and can you show us were the dev states what he was doing / thinking when he made the spy?

It's more probable for you to find a real life elf, dwarf or orc than a female spy like that.

Strange? because here I thought we were talking about a porn game in a fantasy world and NOT real life.
Seems like you are mixing up fantasy and reality again...

I'm being helpful already by warning about that shitty game, with a detailed explanation about how and why it's bad and wrong.

You mean, what you think is shitty about the part of the game you played and gave a detailed explanation based on criteria, assumptions and expectations few if any others would have AND because YOU thought that part was useful, you could just add stuff to bash the game more?

I already addresed why eating the remaining 25% manure isn't going to change the fact that it's manure and that sadly I already ate 75% of it because I was misleaded by its prestige as a reference AVN.

and I have addressed that the 75% is made up and that your example makes no sense....

It's like living in a world where movies like The Room are considered among the best but others like L.A. Confidential are unknown indie projects, it should be the other way around because Leap of Faith is the The Room of AVNs.

Using your example, it doesn't mean the room was a bad movie, the camera doesn't shake all the time, the sound doesn't drop in and out, you don't see the boom drop into shot from time to time, the background music isn't so loud you can't hear the dialog but sure you ignore ALL that because it doesn't fit your taste and call it bad.... at least you didn't make up stuff to bash it.

If I wanted a thread to just spill hate on games, without any intention of it being helpful for someone, then I would have started it at off-topic because it looks like the most appropriate place for it.

Well your thread has been up for little over 2 days, had 549 views as of me writing this, you've managed to spill hate on one game and it doesn't seem like anyone is finding that one "unrecommended game post" helpful....

I don't know, the fact that the game was allegedly a tribute to the author's SUICIDED DAUGHTER might have created the ludicrous impression to me that it could be related to real events, or at the very least that the fiction parts were light. I know it's a silly assumption, but forgive me.

"the game was allegedly a tribute to the author's SUICIDED DAUGHTER" Was it advertised as such? or did you read that somewhere and start making assumptions?

"it could be related to real events" again, was it advertised as such, also "related to" in NO WAY says or implies it is based on, recreated as or directly portrayed. So basically you thought / assumed it COULD be related and then bashed it for not being / doing something you weren't sure of in the first place.....

or to put it in a way you might understand

story : The sea our friend
you : what a shit story, there were no submarines even though the title said sea
you : seas have submarines so it's not a realistic way to show the sea
you: it was just a stupid story about 2 people living by the sea
you : see i'm being helpful

She is hot (and not the typical USA beauty they always put in movies and tv shows) and could seduce a dead man, but also emotionally as cold as they come and it took the nerd protagonist the whole fucking 4 or 5 seasons to make her fall for him (and it only happened because it's both a tv show and a comedy)

and yet.... in season 1 she was already disobeying orders based on her feelings....

He is an ice cold-blooded killer and ruthless manipulator, it took him the whole fucking 4 or 5 seasons to become somewhat human (and again, it only happened because it's both a tv show and a comedy)

and yet... he wasn't even a spy or a woman...

Did you see? They ARE based on real life spies.

The female spy does exactly what you say they can't / won't /don't
The male agent isn't a spy, is not a woman and does things you say spies don't / won't / can't

nope don't see at all...

Jack Reacher 1 is also the same, he plays a very well written spy-like character

This is one more reason to call your interpretation of things into question, while reacher (movie) does use spy-like acquaintances to surveille, collect information etc. He is nothing like a spy or spy-like and most of his actions or the actions he takes are no where near being considered spy-like or even covert.

I already explained this, but talking about fictional spy stories, there are TONS of books about real life spies and based on reality, written by authors which were either spies themselves, or do know the profession very well, like Frederick Forsyth or John le Carré.

BUT did the game ever claim to be trying to portray anyone realistically? or was that something you assumed from reading other members posts?

You keep bring up real world / realistic but have yet to provide anything to show that it is what the game promised and then didn't deliver.

Maybe you could explain why do you think that fame is warranted...

Simple, enough players found they were entertained, found a good fap scene or two or ten, enjoyed their time in the GAME.

Now you keep posting about YOUR personal opinions, assumptions and expectations, how about you post images, screen shots, quotes, anything, where the game advertises, implies or promises you all those things you have a problem with.

Because so far, you read some stuff from other people, came up with some ideas, played the game and it "surprise surprise" didn't have what you made up or read from others and now you want to bash it....

 

[guidedbyvoices]

that somebody else cares about your thread

Then I'm lucky you care for everyone else, given how you go out of your way to explain how much you care for this thread

I think that the author, despite all his grief, tried to maintain optimism and share it with other people, to show through his characters that, despite all the despair and depression they could find themselves in, a happy ending is still possible, and in life there is not only a dark side, but also many fun and joyful moments and wonderful people for whom it is worth living.

By pressuring you into romancing her daughter character, for her not to suicide?

But also I see that it seems for you the main trait of a female spy is to act cold and ignore the MC for as long as possible, and then pounce on him with all the unrealized libido accumulated over many years of feigned ignoring.

Are you talking about the porn version of a female spy? I would need to think about in which fantasy could one fit in, because as I said, real life female spies aren't definitely porn material unless you are into being manipulated, cheated on and ultimately backstabbed.

If you read the memoirs of former spies that do not relate to the periods of world wars, then in most cases these are absolutely unremarkable people, leading the most ordinary life, trying as much as possible to become a typical local inhabitant in the area where they have infiltrated. If the main trait of the locals is cold calmness - then they will behave the same way, if the locals arrange traditional Saturday orgies - our spies will be there too.

I'm not saying they necessarily appear cold and calm, but that they ARE cold and could remain calm while ill-doing. The coldest, most ruthless assassin could pretend to be the warmest if it better suits his/her needs.

Again:

• Real life female spy: She could marry a nice guy but wouldn't care about dumping him, she would just ride on the next cock.
• Fantasy female spy in LOF: She married a nice guy but cared about dumping him and remains in love with him.

 

[yossa999]

By pressuring you into romancing her daughter character, for her not to suicide?

Bro, you just came up with another piece of bullshit on the fly and for some reason you want me to discuss it as if I agreed with the pressuposition.
I can only tell that I don't think the character of Cece represents a real person, although the author may have been inspired by someone real when creating her and I won't go into that further. I'm not going to discuss the dev's personal life tragedies in the context of his game.

Are you talking about the porn version of a female spy? I would need to think about in which fantasy could one fit in, because as I said, real life female spies aren't definitely porn material unless you are into being manipulated, cheated on and ultimately backstabbed.

Well, we were talking about an adult game with the fictional characters. So what do you think I was talking about?

I also said that I didn't think it would be beneficial for an adult entertainment game to have a fictional spy character be similar to a possible real-life prototype. And I also said that I didn't think the author intended for his spy character to be a carbon copy of a real-life prototype, and that I didn't know where you got that idea from.

A spreadsheet listing female spies and their behavior in bed, showing that they are all cold, heartless and unattached would be a great addition to support your point.

I'm not saying they necessarily appear cold and calm, but that they ARE cold and could remain calm while ill-doing. The coldest, most ruthless assassin could pretend to be the warmest if it better suits his/her needs.

Again:

• Real life female spy: She could marry a nice guy but wouldn't care about dumping him, she would just ride on the next cock.
• Fantasy female spy in LOF: She married a nice guy but cared about dumping him and remains in love with him.

Damn, then I have to join your rant too. You know, this game is completely unrealistic in its portrayal of fast food workers. It's just a lie upon a lie. In the game, there's a hot babe behind the counter at a fast food joint, toned, young, fit and witty.

But when I go to one of those fast-food cafes, it's either a guy, probably a student with a sloppy hairdo or a woman in her late 40s with a tired expression and... hmm... traces of consuming the menu from that cafe every day. Where is the fucking Kira? The dev is liar!

On a serious note, I can't comment again your beliefs about the real life female spies. It sounds like complete nonsense to me. Sorry.