The way of the NSFW Game Developer (?

[Asukaki]

I don't understand what that has to do with anything I said. My point was that devs use their free time to provide FREE games for us and this guy is basically shitting on them for getting money as compensation for that free time.

Keep bringing that up mate, you are looking like a detective lol.
You need to read my post again chief, you are misunderstanding all.
I mean, not even that, you just need to read some of my responses. lmao.
Thought for being this a Porn site, everyeone would be like, chilling. Just how it happens in Pornhub.

i guess not.

 

[khumak]

don't know, you name it, I was looking at this as a paid hobby (That is what patreon is for, doesnt? excuseme if not, like I said, I am new to this). So, for a hobby I would say no more than 2k per month should do the cut, but looking at all responses, looks like you guys look at this as a way to make a living, so I would say, more than 4k would be fine (I am not from the US, with 2k is more than enough to live comfy in Japan, so, sorry I am wrong)

As for limits? threating this as a hobby and with the current situations (considering the content per update, the gap between updates and the income) I would say no more than 10k.

You seem to have a pretty lowball estimate of what a dev should consider his time to be worth. In the US, minimum wage gets you about $1400 per month. So if a dev shouldn't make more than $2k per month then you're saying the skills required to produce a game is barely more valuable than what's required to flip burgers or bag groceries for a living. Now if you think it should just be an unpaid hobby then that's fine but you should also be fine with a dev producing nothing for months at a time, dropping off the map with no communication, canceling projects without notice, etc.

At the high end if you're saying nobody should make more than $10k per month doing it, you're pretty much saying that anyone who already has a good job shouldn't bother trying their hand at it because it's not something that's worthy of making real money at. I make more than that at my boring RL job and yet I fully intend to try my hand at making my own game at some point.

I also think it's entirely reasonable for someone who really excels at it to think they might surpass what they could make working at a "real job" with a similar skill set. I think right now there are very few devs making more at adult game development than they could using a comparable skill set in a "real job" but there may be some people in lower cost of living areas who have achieved that level of success at it. In the US that sort of skill set would easily translate into a job that paid a six figure salary if you pick the right industry.

 

[Asukaki]

You seem to have a pretty lowball estimate of what a dev should consider his time to be worth. In the US, minimum wage gets you about $1400 per month. So if a dev shouldn't make more than $2k per month then you're saying the skills required to produce a game is barely more valuable than what's required to flip burgers or bag groceries for a living. Now if you think it should just be an unpaid hobby then that's fine but you should also be fine with a dev producing nothing for months at a time, dropping off the map with no communication, canceling projects without notice, etc.

At the high end if you're saying nobody should make more than $10k per month doing it, you're pretty much saying that anyone who already has a good job shouldn't bother trying their hand at it because it's not something that's worthy of making real money at. I make more than that at my boring RL job and yet I fully intend to try my hand at making my own game at some point.

I also think it's entirely reasonable for someone who really excels at it to think they might surpass what they could make working at a "real job" with a similar skill set. I think right now there are very few devs making more at adult game development than they could using a comparable skill set in a "real job" but there may be some people in lower cost of living areas who have achieved that level of success at it. In the US that sort of skill set would easily translate into a job that paid a six figure salary if you pick the right industry.

yeh, you are blowing my response out of context.
I crearly said if taking it as a hobby, no more than 2k would be fine, I never said no one making a living out of it should make more than 2k. Please read carefully.

And in the other scenario, I took in consideration the scenarios of failure (content per update, time between updates and current income of the devs). there I said no more than 10K.

And Finally, I said I was putting my own personal experience, which does not work for all scenarios.
Do not blame me for responding honestly, blame the guy who made such vague questions with no arguably value lol.

 

[Asukaki]

Tax laws different between countries.
But I assume that in most cases, you'd be seen as a small business owner and get taxed accordingly.

I got that on my check list already, it would be as "freelancing" so If I make less than 5k per month, then I don't pay any taxes.
If I make more than 5k but less than 50k I can have an "scape" putting all my income as donations or small freelance services (not sure how to translate that, but is something like "small commissions for individual professional services"). In that case, then I just need to declare how much I earned and by what exactly (well not that exactly, just "Game developing related stuff" should be alright lol)
If I make more than 50k then I need to go the old fashion way to pay taxes. But meh, I didn't even bother asking that, I do not think I would be doing more than 50k.

 

[Deleted member 78983]

Keep bringing that up mate, you are looking like a detective lol.
You need to read my post again chief, you are misunderstanding all.
I mean, not even that, you just need to read some of my responses. lmao.
Thought for being this a Porn site, everyeone would be like, chilling. Just how it happens in Pornhub.

i guess not.

I have read your replies multiple times and I am still trying to figure out whether you're autistic or just throwing shade at the devs for receiving money. Think I am going with the first one.

 

[HopesGaming]

To start with, I am not 'attacking' you or anything so hopefully, you do not see it that way, Asukaki.
Just trying to tell you things from someone who got a bit experience on the things you got questions about.
Some people may be a bit on the 'annoyed' side as some of the things you say can be a bit out there.
Such as people should limit what they earn and that some devs are basically stealing and being dishonest (milking).
And yes, know I am not the one you are talking about as I am one of the little guys.
Now back to answering some stuff again, heh.

Just to start

don't know, you name it, I was looking at this as a paid hobby (That is what patreon is for, doesnt? excuseme if not, like I said, I am new to this). So, for a hobby I would say no more than 2k per month should do the cut, but looking at all responses, looks like you guys look at this as a way to make a living, so I would say, more than 4k would be fine (I am not from the US, with 2k is more than enough to live comfy in Japan, so, sorry I am wrong)

Then the question is- why? Why must they limit what they earn? Hobby or work, what difference does it make. I just find it odd that you have to set a limit. "Well, guess I make x amount of money. Sadly have to stop my patreon as I don't want to offend anyone."

I mean, I have done complete games with 5k dollars Lol. So, yeah you can see why I am like WOW, this dudes make alot!!

So, aren't you just projection your own 'angers' towards the people that succeed?

For some reason, I've only had answers from developers (you guys) whose earnings are soooo much lower than what I originally quoted

There is a reason for that- the dev that makes 20k are extremely rare (under 1% of all the nsfw devs). So, getting such a small handful of people to answer in such a short time will be difficult. So, we lower devs are here to share our views, heh.

This reminds me the old good one all devs some day use. No, you don't need to make your own engine, lol. Sorry for the laugh, is just that, I have been hear that ALOT (more in the recent years)
I said and you can quote me, "knowing the basics" referring to, there is no need to KNOW all about 3d to produce a pixar movie, but at least the basics outside Daz3d, will come handy. and also you can quote me saying "I don't blame if the devs are newbies, is okay". But when the guy/girl is making more than 20K? going for his 3rd 4th game? I mean Cmooooon lol.

And here I have to quote you other posts as you seem to go a bit back and forth in your own opinions.

not to hurt anybody feelings here. But that seems to be the problem; there is a world of cool tools to render things outside Daz3d.

You are saying to use other things outside of daz to avoid the repetition of seeing the same things and even say that they should be able to know to make chairs.
Yet, all the things you mentioned are inferior (makehumans etc.) and also way more timeconsuming as it require you to create (and no, not going all the way back to creating the engine) the assets from a point that is stupid as you can already get it finished version in daz.
So, yes, you ARE saying that people should know about creating 3d assets.
And also, why does it matter if a guy makes 1$ or $20k? Money does not automatically mean you should stop using what works and try something that has a chance to fail.

HA Gotcha!, you don't know those programs. They all have their base community in which they share props for the models. (for some of the programs, not so much but this is where those "basic knowledge" I talk about will come in handy. you can perfectly fit any 3d mesh "cloth" into any 3d model if you know what are you doing)
Makehuman goes a step futher and gives you the tools to make your own clothes, morphs, targets, proxies (All for free) the learning curve is easy. If not, then there is TONS of addons in blender to make cloths for any mesh. If not, then marvelous designer.

I'm not quite sure what you mean as I said that I knew some of the software and others I didn't.
Now all you said about those softwares does not change anything of what I said- that they are inferior either in graphics (show me a makehuman character that looks better than a daz) or simply to timeconsuming and unnecessary steps required.

As for the poses and environments. Idk, be honest here, That what you said, makes me think you know little outside daz. Because I mean, is not like daz invented those concepts.
poses? sure, easy piece of cake, in a couple of click...

I think you are reading what you want to read and ignoring the main point. Never said that daz invented anything.
The point is, it is not viable to use. You are just mentioning different engines and softwares and mashing it up like they are one entity. So many things wrong with all that which someone with your background should know about.

As for the "low poly not suitable", meh... No, on both.
higher poly count on a mesh is not synonimus of quality, yes this don't apply to ps1 graphics, obviously duh. But to make things look fancy, you don't need a higher poly count. If you were referring to smoothness and detail, well I present you something called subdivision surface and smooth shading. (You don't believe me? lol look the poly count of the models of Toy Story had back in 1995, maybe shaders are a little bit outdated, but sure the movie looks great).

Now you're just being silly. There is a difference between realistic skin level details and the art style of toy story.
No matter what you are trying to convey here the truth is- that software will not be able to produce high quality renders as daz is capable of. (Except Maya, blender and the other heavy hitters but their problems is time which Daz also solves.)

About your last part. It's a bit confusing tbh so I can't really comment.
Also, to remove a misunderstanding you are having. No one is saying; you do not need to learn anything about 3d.
Ofc, it's fine to gain a bit of knowledge about it. What is said is that it is not needed to go so deep into it. And definitely no need to start learning a complex engine such as maya or blender etc.
Now to add my own bit of theory of your whole posts.

- You are heavily looking at your own situation and using that to judge others. Example of this is your background in software etc. Basically it is; since I know it, you should too. It doesn't matter I learned it throughout my life, you need to learn it. You make a lot of money.
- You are frustrated that people that are not that much into 3D earns a lot more than you do and hence wishes to limit it.
- You are judging the quality and the engines based on what you want to make yourself. You mentioned 'platformer' which does not require the highest level of details such as a visual novel would and hence you do not need Daz or other high quality software. You are using this to judge the ones that are using it.

I hope this answers some of your questions and again, not meant as an attack. Just my opinion and views.

 

[Asukaki]

I have read your replies multiple times and I am still trying to figure out whether you're autistic or just throwing shade at the devs for receiving money. Think I am going with the first one.

You must be the soul of the party with your friends. I mean, if you have...

lol

 

[Deleted member 78983]

You must be the soul of the party with your friends. I mean, if you have...

lol

Well, you answered my question. Autistic it is.

 

[Asukaki]

Then the question is- why? Why must they limit what they earn?

You just lost me there. I am not the one saying how much they must earn lol, I just answered honestly based of my personal experience, what did you ask. LMAO.
I don't see the point of arguing with you anymore, sorry, not trying to be rude.

I had a question about all those suspicious cases where devs who were making good money, were abandoning projects, so I just thought, well okay I just need to ask to the pros in this field. "before diving, ask how deep the pool is"
But all I had was all this no sense thing about if I hate the devs or not.
I just wanted to share a possible better way to do things IMHO. clearly I did touch a very sensitive nerve here lol.

But, alright, whatever.

 

[HopesGaming]

You just lost me there. I am not the one saying how much they must earn lol, I just answered honestly based of my personal experience, what did you ask. LMAO.
I don't see the point of arguing with you anymore, sorry, not trying to be rude.

I had a question about all those suspicious cases where devs who were making good money, were abandoning projects, so I just thought, well okay I just need to ask to the pros in this field. "before diving, ask how deep the pool is"
But all I had was all this no sense thing about if I hate the devs or not.
I just wanted to share a possible better way to do things IMHO. clearly I did touch a very sensitive nerve here lol.

But, alright, whatever.

Oh my. Seems like you completely misunderstood my point.
I even added, "I am not 'attacking' you or anything so hopefully, you do not see it that way, Asukaki."

Was just trying to answer as much in-depth as I could
My apologies.

 

[215303j]

Maybe I'm also autistic but I am wondering what's up with the hostility lately.
Most people in this thread are just offering their opinion and/or trying to help.
I don't see the reason to be so argumentative about anything here in this thread...

 

[polywog]

I don't know what other people are doing with all their money but mine is direct deposited into my offshore account managed by a Nigerian princess, and her brother the minister of finance. Earning 50% interest compounded weekly, it just doesn't pay to make a withdrawal, I couldn't get that kind of retun on any investment here in the states. I'll be able to retire soon, and then it's see ya later guy, no more polywog to kick around anymore. I'll never have to work again, and i'll be totally off grid sipping juice, laid back on a beach, with waves lapping at my feet. No more of these 60 hour days, working my ass off. I can't wait.

 

[Domiek]

Threads like these are generally missing the bigger picture.

It's something like 1% of NSFW devs make more than $1k a month. Those reaching that number are generally putting in more than 40 hours a week and the payoff is less than minimum wage by most Western standards.

Expanding your ability outside of Daz is a lesson in masochism. One person with no education or previous experience in the field opens up the door to learning aspects of the 3D world that a person in the industry would spend years specializing in just one or two of those things. Modeling, texturing, rigging, lighting, animating, simulating, etc. Then when you look past the visual aspect you have people needing to learn story telling, composition, camera work, coding. Before long you have one person with no experience learning multiple skillsets that normally have a team of people doing. I'm experimenting with pipelines to leave Daz and have spent the past month on 4-5 hours of sleep a night.

Add to this an actual job/career that pays the bills and you will understand why someone making $2k a month may decide that they just can't do it anymore.

Those who think it's easy aren't entirely wrong, nothing about this is rocket science. It just takes A LOT of time and effort to learn from scratch.

Many don't seem to look at the big picture. In order to have any form of success here, a dev needs to sacrifice all other hobbies, put their career on hold and abandon most of their social relationships just to even have a chance of it ever paying back.

It's easy to compare the work of the bottom 1% with the income of the top 1% and say "Pffft that's easy, they are making money for no effort". Until a person starts making a game themself at least up until a 0.1 release, they will never understand.

 

[recreation]

Maybe I'm also autistic but I am wondering what's up with the hostility lately.
Most people in this thread are just offering their opinion and/or trying to help.
I don't see the reason to be so argumentative about anything here in this thread...

So I'm not the only one who sees it... Yay.
Everyone seems to shit on everything, and so many people get pissed for no reason! Calm down people!

@ Topic:
Yes, some devs seemt to make so much money, that they don't see the need to make any efforts for their games anymore. Some burn out, some have RL happen, and some just run away, but honestly, that's a minority and most Devs don't even get near that amount of money.

As for Daz and other programs:
Yes there are better programs out there than Daz, yes a lot of Devs don't know what they are doing and prefer simple solutions and ready made assets, and that's actually the reason for Daz being so popular, there's simply no other program that let's you create "good" looking render out of the box with little to no knowledge.
Yes, you can get astonishing results in Blender, Maya, and all the others, but you need to know what you are doing, and that's nothing you can learn on a sunday afternoon.
Even when you know what you're doing, creating all the stuff by yourself needs a lot more time than just installing a ready made asset, and believe me, even the smallest dev has more than enough to do, so time is a great factor.

Now don't get me wrong here, I don't like to see the same models and assets over and over again in every single game, and I also would NEVER even think about spending thousands of dollars in the Daz store, but that's something people still need to get in their heads, using Daz doesn't mean you're stuck with only what is available for Daz, you can also use stuff from other sites and programs (like cgtrader and turbosquid) and you can also make assets yourself, but of course both means extra work.
There's also a lot of free stuff for Daz out there, characters, morphs, even full environments, but many people seem to ignore that, and simply buy or pirate stuff... the same stuff everyone has... over and over again...
Well, it's the easiest and fastest way...

 

[fffffffffffk]

Bro, need a model? Just use MakeHuman. What? There's no vagina and the textures aren't very appealing? Just use some photo references bro. Oh and install Blender to model the missing parts. It's free! Need props? Buy a 900 dollar license for SpeedTree and google some free models, bro! Why do you want your model to have clothes? It's a porn game! Okay fine, Blender has a tool to model clothes for free! Wait, why are you making so much money?! I'm going to deny the existence of taxes, office space, employee/freelancer wages, hardware and get mad at the magical number shown on the patreon page.

If I didn't already have cancer from sniffing my own farts then I'm sure this thread gave me some sizeable tumors.

or poolish the game

I do like this part, where he started making baguettes.

 

[polywog]

Threads like these are generally missing the bigger picture.

It's something like 1% of NSFW devs make more than $1k a month. Those reaching that number are generally putting in more than 40 hours a week and the payoff is less than minimum wage by most Western standards.

Expanding your ability outside of Daz is a lesson in masochism. One person with no education or previous experience in the field opens up the door to learning aspects of the 3D world that a person in the industry would spend years specializing in just one or two of those things. Modeling, texturing, rigging, lighting, animating, simulating, etc. Then when you look past the visual aspect you have people needing to learn story telling, composition, camera work, coding. Before long you have one person with no experience learning multiple skillsets that normally have a team of people doing. I'm experimenting with pipelines to leave Daz and have spent the past month on 4-5 hours of sleep a night.

Add to this an actual job/career that pays the bills and you will understand why someone making $2k a month may decide that they just can't do it anymore.

Those who think it's easy aren't entirely wrong, nothing about this is rocket science. It just takes A LOT of time and effort to learn from scratch.

Many don't seem to look at the big picture. In order to have any form of success here, a dev needs to sacrifice all other hobbies, put their career on hold and abandon most of their social relationships just to even have a chance of it ever paying back.

It's easy to compare the work of the bottom 1% with the income of the top 1% and say "Pffft that's easy, they are making money for no effort". Until a person starts making a game themself at least up until a 0.1 release, they will never understand.

 

[Asukaki]

So I'm not the only one who sees it... Yay.
Everyone seems to shit on everything, and so many people get pissed for no reason! Calm down people!

@ Topic:
Yes, some devs seemt to make so much money, that they don't see the need to make any efforts for their games anymore. Some burn out, some have RL happen, and some just run away, but honestly, that's a minority and most Devs don't even get near that amount of money.

As for Daz and other programs:
Yes there are better programs out there than Daz, yes a lot of Devs don't know what they are doing and prefer simple solutions and ready made assets, and that's actually the reason for Daz being so popular, there's simply no other program that let's you create "good" looking render out of the box with little to no knowledge.
Yes, you can get astonishing results in Blender, Maya, and all the others, but you need to know what you are doing, and that's nothing you can learn on a sunday afternoon.
Even when you know what you're doing, creating all the stuff by yourself needs a lot more time than just installing a ready made asset, and believe me, even the smallest dev has more than enough to do, so time is a great factor.

Now don't get me wrong here, I don't like to see the same models and assets over and over again in every single game, and I also would NEVER even think about spending thousands of dollars in the Daz store, but that's something people still need to get in their heads, using Daz doesn't mean you're stuck with only what is available for Daz, you can also use stuff from other sites and programs (like cgtrader and turbosquid) and you can also make assets yourself, but of course both means extra work.
There's also a lot of free stuff for Daz out there, characters, morphs, even full environments, but many people seem to ignore that, and simply buy or pirate stuff... the same stuff everyone has... over and over again...
Well, it's the easiest and fastest way...

Now this is podracing a proper reply. without that passive aggresive sh*t lol
I never thought the obvious option of devs quitting or not making an effort just because they feel comfy with the amount they already make. That actually makes even more sense that the "oh no, they just burn out to bad criticism or barely make a profit out of their long hours of work".

Ye, obviously Daz is good for starters, is user friendly and have good results, indeed, but the problem comes when experienced devs (those who make good money and have more than 2 or 3 games) stick to it just for the sake of being lazy.
Daz is good, nobody is saying other thing, but it can also be restrictive. Sometimes adding an unnecessary layer of work or being too time consuming. I mean, who wants to spend more than half of the time rendering things, sometimes risking graphics to burn out, when you just have the money and the option to move to another better program?
But alright, whatever fit their needs. I guess.

I start to consider that, maybe I am in the wrong here, maybe is just my workflow, my way to do things what does not fit in this particular scenario lol. I am so used to think about way to optimize time in a very different way I guess.

 

[polywog]

Start a "fan art and assets" thread for your game. post the assets
soon an army of interns are making renders for you
your game moves up to the top ten
and you start getting the disrespect you deserve around here