These games are getting worse

[Simpgor]

sorry man someone posted this a year or two ago so even when you liked them they were bad

pretty brave of you to admit liking shit in public though.......wait does op think games are bad because lack of scat?

 

[barglenarglezous]

But 10K? Really? How and why? For a hobby?

I know people who spend that much per year on Warhammer minis.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

You're forgetting the clothes and the hairs. There's also everything in the background (rooms, some fillers, the backdrop for exterior shoots, etc.), and if you're serious the shaders. Then, if you don't want to spend hours raging while correcting your poses, the tools to make the feet stick to the ground, hands not enter the body, and things like that.
For those who aren't talented enough there's also the light, camera and render presets. And if you want animations, there's also the morphs to make the soft parts of the body giggle, or the tools doing it for you if you don't feel confident enough to use the morphs (that can be needed by the said tools).
And the obvious morphs set so often forgotten, the one that correct the autofit feature and don't make every single clothe looks like glued to the body.

Well, hobby generally cost a lot. Model railway, by example, cost a fortune too.

Hobbies don't have to be very expensive. DAZ surely is.
I enjoy it for my own but it does still look unreal no matter how i do it.

In any case, i think i could get around with between 1000 - 1500 Dollars.
You really can save, if you use free poses and just save poses that you make. That is why this website is so valuable. You can try it out.
Most assets are around 20 Dollars, the exception being the characters made by DAZ.
Sex parts are another money pit.
Especially addons like cum here and there. I found that one cum prob will be enough (with some work) to get the effect you are looking for.
In my fantasy i am using 3 room assets which aren't expensive really because they are old.
There are some probs i use, so i have to add them.
I am not sure if people really buy any assets at all but you probably need to if you sell your game on Steam.
The key is, to buy when on sale. You will cut your cost in half.
So 10K must be a huge game with a lot of assets and figures.
To be honest, i rather waste my time drawing on paper. Its more satisfying too.
I remember when i wanted to make a game. Yeah, like the 10 million before me. Until, i figured it isn't worth it. And mostly because it would mean commitment. My philosophy is, if i do something i really like, i go full in.
Nah, not for me.

Here is an example of a scene which will probably cost around, i don't know.



In here i am using the 90s asset. Was quite fun and i think the lightning is well.
That's what i do. I know i wouldn't want to spend money on DAZ.
If you are somewhat serious, between 1000 and 2000 Dollars seems to be realistic.

Games like Fashion Business or A Mother and a Women, i don't know how much that would have cost. A lot more for sure. But they get paid well, so it should be probably easy.
And yes, these are popular games with a following. I wouldn't play them anymore but i admire the quality. But they are a different level altogether anyway.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

I know people who spend that much per year on Warhammer minis.

You referring to collecting?
Never understood that either.

 

[barglenarglezous]

You referring to collecting?
Never understood that either.

No, the wargame. Warhammer 40k and it's assorted spinoffs. Miniature wargames in general get pricey, but 40k and it's spinoffs have become uniquely absurd. I played back when a new army only cost about $500, but with several price increases over the last decade it's twice that much now, and I know several people who drop thousands a year on it.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Hobbies don't have to be very expensive.

They don't have, yes, and many aren't at first sight, but they all end being expensive. How much expensive depending on what is your hobby.

This is because before everything a hobby is a question of pleasure, of adrenaline rush. Money only come second. You're doing something you like to do, something that create a pleasurable break in your daily routine and help you clear your mind from any stress. While you're practicing your hobby, you're in another world where nothing else exist. And this is something that have no price. Even when it's something that looks cheap at first, the instant it turns into a hobby, there's tons of money involved.
Take fishing by example. You'll want a better rod, because struggling with a cheap one isn't pleasurable. You'll want quality baits, to have that adrenaline rush when you catch a beautiful fish, and of course, baits adapted to what you want to fish that day. Even the rod, you'll have more than one, because not all fishes need the same rod. And what about your holidays? You'll book them not because of the view, but because of the new fishes you can possibly catch. It starts as something cheap, then you end spending thousands on it every years just because it turn from a pleasurable occupation into a hobby.

 

[Droid Productions]

Turns out that wanting everything animated, new images for every line of text, tons of branching storylines and HD renders or 4K increases the time to make games... who knew?

 

[barglenarglezous]

Turns out that wanting everything animated, new images for every line of text, tons of branching storylines and HD renders or 4K increases the time to make games... who knew?

There's also the fact that the things we need just keep getting more expensive, and the money to pay for it has to come from somewhere -- and if they have to go back to a full time job, that just means the gaps between updates get even longer.

 

[morphnet]

Hobbies don't have to be very expensive.

Take fishing by example. You'll want a better rod, because struggling with a cheap one isn't pleasurable. You'll want quality baits, to have that adrenaline rush when you catch a beautiful fish, and of course, baits adapted to what you want to fish that day. Even the rod, you'll have more than one, because not all fishes need the same rod. And what about your holidays? You'll book them not because of the view, but because of the new fishes you can possibly catch. It starts as something cheap, then you end spending thousands on it every years just because it turn from a pleasurable occupation into a hobby.

This is a good example and comparison, just to expand on this, just because someone has a fishing rod and bait does not mean they can do ALL fishing, it only means they can do some select fishing. There are a number of items needed for different types of fishing and many are exclusive to the type of fishing being done.

The equipment changes depending on if you are fresh water fishing, salt water fishing, deep water fishing not to mention if it is day or night fishing. This includes, rods, lure, reels, lines, nets, hooks, not to mention permits / licenses, (if not doing catch and release) storage etc. none of this has taken into account the extra expenses like clothing (waders, boots etc.) or travel or hiring of boats etc. again all dependent of the type of fishing the person wants to do.

It's the same for game dev's hobby, they could stick to a plain rob and bait BUT it's not fun to read people saying they are using too many stock / free assets, they are using the same models as everyone else, their game if trying to rip off others because they use the same hair, clothes, poses, etc. and even if you are a good dev, put out a good amount of content in short update cycles and have a quality game people will still complain.

Take moonbox who is making grandma's house, he puts out a good amount of content per update every 2 weeks, the renders are good, there's a light story, good comedy, great variety of kinks and scenes and people still complain because there are no animations or the character are ugly or you can't have sex with X or the story is not deep enough. So if reactions are like that it's understandable that many dev's would be worried about using stock / free assets and spending less.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Turns out that wanting everything animated...

This isn't a knock against you or your games in particular, just an observation/gripe I have with the community at large...

Honestly, 98% of the animation on display here (amateur games on F95) shouldn't exist. They're bad. Rendered poorly by people with zero training or understanding of the fundamentals of animation at worst, or quickly slapped together with either in-game assets (e.g. Illusion games) or some open-source or otherwise 'free' mo-cap files for a more general purpose program (e.g. Daz3D) at best; with very few exception. Good animation does exist, but it is so few and far between, that it really stands out when you see it. But almost every single slop-eating wanker on these forums demands animation, and will happily jizz their pants at said abortions of poor animation.

Personally I'd much prefer that devs who don't know how to animate just don't, and redirect their time and energy towards literally anything else to improve their game. If they're not an animator, it is a guarantee that they'll see a better return on time invested by working on any other aspect of their project, rather than bumble-fucking their way into the Uncanny Valley by making a shit animation. If a dev can't make their release deadlines or content goals because they're trying and failing at making bad animations, that is entirely a self-inflicted wound on their part.

TL;DR - Bad animation is worse than no animation, and takes up more time & effort for worse results.

/Bad Animation Rant Over

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

I know people who spend that much per year on Warhammer minis.

Same. Those little plastic men are like crack for nerds.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

No, the wargame. Warhammer 40k and it's assorted spinoffs. Miniature wargames in general get pricey, but 40k and it's spinoffs have become uniquely absurd. I played back when a new army only cost about $500, but with several price increases over the last decade it's twice that much now, and I know several people who drop thousands a year on it.

Mm.. tabletop. Its been a while since i played (a long long time ago) with people a tabletop. Though i am not sure how pricey it is. I liked the tabletop game as it was pretty engaging.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

They don't have, yes, and many aren't at first sight, but they all end being expensive. How much expensive depending on what is your hobby.

This is because before everything a hobby is a question of pleasure, of adrenaline rush. Money only come second. You're doing something you like to do, something that create a pleasurable break in your daily routine and help you clear your mind from any stress. While you're practicing your hobby, you're in another world where nothing else exist. And this is something that have no price. Even when it's something that looks cheap at first, the instant it turns into a hobby, there's tons of money involved.
Take fishing by example. You'll want a better rod, because struggling with a cheap one isn't pleasurable. You'll want quality baits, to have that adrenaline rush when you catch a beautiful fish, and of course, baits adapted to what you want to fish that day. Even the rod, you'll have more than one, because not all fishes need the same rod. And what about your holidays? You'll book them not because of the view, but because of the new fishes you can possibly catch. It starts as something cheap, then you end spending thousands on it every years just because it turn from a pleasurable occupation into a hobby.

That is true.

I do drawing with charcoal. I like to get my hands dirty.
So far, i don't have an easel but i get around ok as i don't do it with larger paper.
And yes, for me it is an escape because i can imagine a place or face or something. I take great pleasure in doing that, even if it isn't that great. It's mostly for me. My goal is to get better.
Again yes, you have to invest but if you think about people that don't have a hobby, you are on starvation.
I have a neighbor that just watches them telly and sports of course. I don't call that really a hobby but to each of their own.

Though in digital space, monitazation is what drives the businesses. If i buy every week a game, it adds up too.
Returning DAZ. I think its great to make something but to do something of real game, and legally, is very hard to obtain in my view.
If you do it the legal way, you buy every asset and this goes indeed in your bank with no or little return.
I find DAZ not as pleasurable because very little happens in your head as it is visual. All the poses you do are technical nature. To be fair, there is a small amount of imagination.

I think for 1 or 2 years i checked DAZ off as an experience but not worth pursuing. Its too time consuming.
I can draw an image in a couple of hours, if i really want to detail it, maybe a day or two.
Though it is more satisfying when you pin it on your wall and can say, i made it without having to explain.

But i am drifting away.

Yes, hobbies cost money. Some don't cost much or very little. I think the main point is what brings you fulfillment. What makes the hobby worthwhile and possibly gives you meaning.
This is at least my view.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

This is a good example and comparison, just to expand on this, just because someone has a fishing rod and bait does not mean they can do ALL fishing, it only means they can do some select fishing. There are a number of items needed for different types of fishing and many are exclusive to the type of fishing being done.

The equipment changes depending on if you are fresh water fishing, salt water fishing, deep water fishing not to mention if it is day or night fishing. This includes, rods, lure, reels, lines, nets, hooks, not to mention permits / licenses, (if not doing catch and release) storage etc. none of this has taken into account the extra expenses like clothing (waders, boots etc.) or travel or hiring of boats etc. again all dependent of the type of fishing the person wants to do.

It's the same for game dev's hobby, they could stick to a plain rob and bait BUT it's not fun to read people saying they are using too many stock / free assets, they are using the same models as everyone else, their game if trying to rip off others because they use the same hair, clothes, poses, etc. and even if you are a good dev, put out a good amount of content in short update cycles and have a quality game people will still complain.

Take moonbox who is making grandma's house, he puts out a good amount of content per update every 2 weeks, the renders are good, there's a light story, good comedy, great variety of kinks and scenes and people still complain because there are no animations or the character are ugly or you can't have sex with X or the story is not deep enough. So if reactions are like that it's understandable that many dev's would be worried about using stock / free assets and spending less.

To be honest, animations are hyped and a bloat to a game. You can do that with the scenes alone and Renpy. Most animations don't impress me really as they remind me about Fallout 4 sex animations. Very mechanical.

The characters? The dev decides.
This is one key issue with DAZ. Most people don't create their own characters because it cost time to learn and create and fantasy or imagination.
So most of the time you see the same characters in many games.

The game you mentioned, i disliked because it's a harem game. No choice if you don't want.
But that is not the topic, the dev, if he or she does it alone, does a good job. I think this is totally ok if the dev enjoys it. I'll get it insofar that you great a game that has some story, some choice.

I have a friend who goes fishing. I am not really sure, but he has maybe 3 or 4 rods and hooks. I think he does have a lot of things and yes, mostly small fishes of course but for him the main driver is not the fishing but to be out somewhere with a friend and enjoy the time.

I didn't mentioned it when i quoted Anne but i think it is important that a hobby isn't interfering with your life and i see this with DAZ as a big red flag. Because you get drawn in, the prices, there is a sale, i need to buy this.
And considering that each scene requires you to really tune them to work out good, a lot of time goes into it. People that are pro's are for sure quicker but i am not a real pro and so it takes time.
Besides there are so many people that are doing it, no one needs to see my crap.

 

[morphnet]

To be honest, animations are hyped and a bloat to a game. You can do that with the scenes alone and Renpy. Most animations don't impress me really as they remind me about Fallout 4 sex animations. Very mechanical.

I agree, most of the games I play don't have animations BUT when someone starts a hobby and/or wants to be part of a community (I'm not referring solely to F95 here but the larger adult gaming community too) and they are faced with comments from the vocal minority such as "garbage game, pile of shit, abortions of poor animation, etc." it makes it hard to enjoy the hobby.

The characters? The dev decides.

That's the thing though, they don't decide. If we are using DAZ as the example, as a new dev, they get / take what they can afford.

But that is not the topic, the dev, if he or she does it alone, does a good job. I think this is totally ok if the dev enjoys it. I'll get it insofar that you great a game that has some story, some choice.

The thing here is, the vocal minority was giving the dev such a hard time, not just on F95 but on other platforms too, that they went out and made a second game just to see if they could add animations and things they were asking for. At the end of the day the dev came back and said it was impossible to keep up the 2 week update cycle AND add animations etc. After that he still continued to receive complaints and insults.
This is the environment and the pressure placed on dev's

I have a friend who goes fishing. I am not really sure, but he has maybe 3 or 4 rods and hooks. I think he does have a lot of things and yes, mostly small fishes of course but for him the main driver is not the fishing but to be out somewhere with a friend and enjoy the time.

But your friend could "be out somewhere with a friend and enjoy the time." by taking up hiking or photography or painting or cycling or souvenir collecting etc. but they chose fishing because that is what interests them and what they enjoy over those other things and in choosing that they have to accept the costs involved.

(Strangely enough, many people try make a little extra cash off their hobbies. From the activities I listed above, a lot of hobbyists sell their photos online, many amateur painters try selling the art in flee markets or stalls, cyclists enter amateur races etc.)

I didn't mentioned it when i quoted Anne but i think it is important that a hobby isn't interfering with your life and i see this with DAZ as a big red flag.

I disagree here, I think the point of a hobby is exactly that, to interfere with your life, to help you break away from the routine, stress, responsibilities and pressures out there and give you a place and time to relax, enjoy yourself and get away from it all.

I think it is also important to make the distinction that a hobby isn't just a way to kill time, it a something a person has an interest in and that will bring them enjoyment and with the way the world works that means you need cash unfortunately.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[...] cyclists enter amateur races etc.)

This make me think about a friend. She had a dozen of kg to loose, and decided to regularly go to the pool for that, walking back and forth. One day it was really cold and she decided to ran in order to be back home faster, what she liked. Then she wondered, why walk to the pool and still use my car to go to works, so she brought a bicycle. Then she thought about what she was doing, swimming, running, cycling... And did a triathlon.
She now have two bicycles, one for training, one for the competition, a full repair kit, her summer holidays was ~2,000 km cycling while looking at the landscape and stopping here and there to visit something. And she's doing all triathlons opened to amateurs in a ~300km radius around her home.

I disagree here, I think the point of a hobby is exactly that, to interfere with your life, to help you break away from the routine, stress, responsibilities and pressures out there and give you a place and time to relax, enjoy yourself and get away from it all.

I agree. And this whatever the investment, financial or physical, you've to do for it.

I think it is also important to make the distinction that a hobby isn't just a way to kill time, [...]

I agree too. In fact it's more the opposite, a hobby generally quickly turn into something time consuming.
In some extreme cases it can even turn into an obsession, when not into an addiction. There's probably no stats for this, but each years many divorces are due to the fact that one in the couple ended spending more time doing his/her hobby, than being with his/her spouse.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

I agree, most of the games I play don't have animations BUT when someone starts a hobby and/or wants to be part of a community (I'm not referring solely to F95 here but the larger adult gaming community too) and they are faced with comments from the vocal minority such as "garbage game, pile of shit, abortions of poor animation, etc." it makes it hard to enjoy the hobby.

I actually understand why some people/devs don't look on this forum at all.
It's a distraction.
One virtue you have to have as a dev is to be detached. Otherwise you will have a very bad time.
Users don't know shit. They think it is easy but nothing is easy.
Again, i view animations as bloat because they don't really add value to the game. Working with DAZ is making a slideshow, telling a story.
So you putting effort in it and adding some animations for some pricks that don't value that in the end. Especially considering through how many hoops you have to go to make one.

That's the thing though, they don't decide. If we are using DAZ as the example, as a new dev, they get / take what they can afford.

I am not sure if devs in general really buy anything. Its an assumption.
But you have a choice. When i think of a scene, i have some imagination about what characters play in it. There are tons of relatively cheap figures you can buy. I bought some when they were on sale. Of course, if you are starving creator, you may not have money. But then, why do you pursue the hobby?

The thing here is, the vocal minority was giving the dev such a hard time, not just on F95 but on other platforms too, that they went out and made a second game just to see if they could add animations and things they were asking for. At the end of the day the dev came back and said it was impossible to keep up the 2 week update cycle AND add animations etc. After that he still continued to receive complaints and insults.
This is the environment and the pressure placed on dev's

I would call it a rip-off. They call it a community release.
It probably takes 2 weeks to make an animation. (thinking off Blender here)
This is also a reason why i never really wanted to be a dev. Because once you release something, you have the obligation to continue.
It is also the reason why many just quit.
The crowd is unforgiving. Especially on a forum like this where everything is "free".
To me, they are nothing.

But your friend could "be out somewhere with a friend and enjoy the time." by taking up hiking or photography or painting or cycling or souvenir collecting etc. but they chose fishing because that is what interests them and what they enjoy over those other things and in choosing that they have to accept the costs involved.

(Strangely enough, many people try make a little extra cash off their hobbies. From the activities I listed above, a lot of hobbyists sell their photos online, many amateur painters try selling the art in flee markets or stalls, cyclists enter amateur races etc.)

I disagree here, I think the point of a hobby is exactly that, to interfere with your life, to help you break away from the routine, stress, responsibilities and pressures out there and give you a place and time to relax, enjoy yourself and get away from it all.

I think it is also important to make the distinction that a hobby isn't just a way to kill time, it a something a person has an interest in and that will bring them enjoyment and with the way the world works that means you need cash unfortunately.

Well, i meant if it becomes an obsession. The unhealthy version of dedication.
Of course you pursue a hobby as a form of escapism.
To me, i am doing my thing when i am in the mood. It isn't meant to make money out of it but of course you could.
When talking about art, art is when people say its art even if you don't agree with it.

In case of DAZ, there are too many legal issues to worry and real cost, if you are serious to pursue it. You buy assets that add up quickly before even starting.
And then it maybe worthless if you don't do anything with it. Like it has digital value but not real value.
So the incentive is higher on DAZ to wanting to make money from time spent.

My issue usually is not the fact that someone spends his time on DAZ and spending a lot of money.
It's rather the so-called game. Is it really a game? Most games use the exact same game mechanics which aren't really great. It is rather seldom that someone breaks out of this equation.
I recently played "A Plague Game" and its awesome. A very linier experience but visually really good and the story is great too.
Most porn games on the other hand show you, sex. That in it self is already hard to show something believable. Because most of the time (don't mind me because i stopped playing them for years now.) it's a fantasy.
Characters are often times just a vehicle for the audience to get hot but not how a person would react in real life.
Even considering that the art itself is great.
I don't even know how much money a game like Fashion Business must have cost. Its huge. I stopped playing it a long time ago as i am not a fan of clicky clicky.
But the quality is really high.
In the end everything finds fans that like what the dev is doing. Even the shitty games.
I always get teary eyes reading on "AWAM" thread. People are invested in games.

Sorry, i was drifting away from the topic again.

 

[morphnet]

I agree too. In fact it's more the opposite, a hobby generally quickly turn into something time consuming.
In some extreme cases it can even turn into an obsession, when not into an addiction.

This is very true and if the people are not careful then this is where costs can skyrocket too. I know that outside of meets, stamp and coin and many other collectors travel for private purchases so they can inspect the items, plus some of the rarer ones can really break the bank.

There's probably no stats for this, but each years many divorces are due to the fact that one in the couple ended spending more time doing his/her hobby, than being with his/her spouse.

There have been cases like that but also cases where it has brought couples together having a shared interest / passion. Plus there are also a lot of stories of hobbies being taken up by the whole / part of the family. Like all things though it should be done in moderation.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

This make me think about a friend. She had a dozen of kg to loose, and decided to regularly go to the pool for that, walking back and forth. One day it was really cold and she decided to ran in order to be back home faster, what she liked. Then she wondered, why walk to the pool and still use my car to go to works, so she brought a bicycle. Then she thought about what she was doing, swimming, running, cycling... And did a triathlon.
She now have two bicycles, one for training, one for the competition, a full repair kit, her summer holidays was ~2,000 km cycling while looking at the landscape and stopping here and there to visit something. And she's doing all triathlons opened to amateurs in a ~300km radius around her home.

I agree. And this whatever the investment, financial or physical, you've to do for it.

I agree too. In fact it's more the opposite, a hobby generally quickly turn into something time consuming.
In some extreme cases it can even turn into an obsession, when not into an addiction. There's probably no stats for this, but each years many divorces are due to the fact that one in the couple ended spending more time doing his/her hobby, than being with his/her spouse.

Call me impressed with your friend. Real dedication.

I think you last qoute is what is the problem.
Many guys spend time in the gaming world. I count myself in it.
Because you spend all day playing but life passes you by.
If you are in a relationship, this is bad. There has to be always a balance. To find this balance is hart but i hope i am doing it better now.
It is so strange to me how grown up men buy collectibles. From games and movies.
There is a reason why this is a red flag from women.

 

[anne O'nymous]

There have been cases like that but also cases where it has brought couples together having a shared interest / passion. Plus there are also a lot of stories of hobbies being taken up by the whole / part of the family. Like all things though it should be done in moderation.

I'm tempted to say that it's the moment where it reach the whole family that you should be concerned. When it's just your spouse, it's a shared passion. But when it starts to extend further, isn't it the only way to pass time with you?
It's not always the case of course, but it's a question that should be asked when it happen.