Thread Reviews - Moderation Method Suggestions

Jeevant

Failed to make an unlimited money mod for my life
Moderator
Modder
Compressor
May 1, 2020
2,119
32,777
Hi Jeevant,

Would be good to get a moderators thoughts on this:
The bits breaking the rule was removed (i removed the missed part). If the review is easily over 200 relevant characters and not breaking rules then we usually just remove those mentions or sometimes its just a rewrite which i even suggested to you in PMs.
 

Rufio

Member
Sep 4, 2017
222
321
The bits breaking the rule was removed (i removed the missed part). If the review is easily over 200 relevant characters and not breaking rules then we usually just remove those mentions or sometimes its just a rewrite which i even suggested to you in PMs.
That is strange, i had a review well over 200 chars, no rants and objective, but at one point i said the pacing is similar to two other games.
That got deleted, and no PM got sent (raised it to the bug hunter)

Could you explain why the positive review gets amended rather than deleted?
Or why the negative review gets deleted, then it is left to the review to ask why it is deleted, then for the reviewer to submit another review?

The message you sent me was regarding another review that got deleted becauseif you only count the review content it was under 200 chars.

Similarly to these that i reported and are "resolved" but not deleted:
1670350430456.png
After you remove the bit breaking the rules and talking about updates, it is less than 200 chars.
But unlike mine, this did not get a:
1670350846368.png
 
Last edited:

Jeevant

Failed to make an unlimited money mod for my life
Moderator
Modder
Compressor
May 1, 2020
2,119
32,777
That is strange, i had a review well over 200 chars, no rants and objective, but at one point i said the pacing is similar to two other games.
That got deleted, and no PM got sent (raised it to the bug hunter)

Could you explain why the positive review gets amended rather than deleted?
Or why the negative review gets deleted, then it is left to the review to ask why it is deleted, then for the reviewer to submit another review?
Your review: IMG_20221206_234036.jpg

Now, you tell me what remains after removing the part of comparison and the talk about the development time?
Just this: "renders are nice, story is slow and drama focused "
 

Jeevant

Failed to make an unlimited money mod for my life
Moderator
Modder
Compressor
May 1, 2020
2,119
32,777
Btw, you can make a new post you know. Editing your older Post i might miss the changes you make into the post with your newer doubts about unfair treatment and unequal rights. :HideThePain:
 

Rufio

Member
Sep 4, 2017
222
321
Your review: View attachment 2217585

Now, you tell me what remains after removing the part of comparison and the talk about the development time?
Just this: "renders are nice, story is slow and drama focused "
Just to be clear i talk about the pacing, the content, and mention the story has a drama focus.
Now are you suggesting that isn't enough of a review to be a review?
Because if that is a new rule we can see what reviews are left once we report and delete reviews that only talk about 4 or more different elements.
 

Jeevant

Failed to make an unlimited money mod for my life
Moderator
Modder
Compressor
May 1, 2020
2,119
32,777
Just to be clear i talk about the pacing, the content, and mention the story has a drama focus.
Now are you suggesting that isn't enough of a review to be a review?
Because if that is a new rule we can see what reviews are left once we report and delete reviews that only talk about 4 or more different elements.
The number of elements isn't the problem. As i said before it doesn't remain above 200 characters after removing the rule breaking part.
 

Rufio

Member
Sep 4, 2017
222
321
Btw, you can make a new post you know. Editing your older Post i might miss the changes you make into the post with your newer doubts about unfair treatment and unequal rights. :HideThePain:
Apologies, i didn't add the screenies, i didn't see you replied while i was editing, wasn't trying to do anything sneaky, just missed bits on that post
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taulion and Jeevant

Rufio

Member
Sep 4, 2017
222
321
Bit of a sad day when the moderators have to make it personal....
I never said i have been treated unfairly, or without equal rights, i am talking reviews and moderation?
 

Jeevant

Failed to make an unlimited money mod for my life
Moderator
Modder
Compressor
May 1, 2020
2,119
32,777
I never said i have been treated unfairly
You wanted PROOF positive reviews are being treated the same as negative reviews:
Here you have a review breaking the rules, not subjective, they mention another game (BaDIK).
As suggested when a review breaks the rules, i reported it.
For an example of how a negative review that breaks that exact rule is handled:
Could you explain why the positive review gets amended rather than deleted?
Or why the negative review gets deleted, then it is left to the review to ask why it is deleted, then for the reviewer to submit another review?
 

Rufio

Member
Sep 4, 2017
222
321
I am not a massive fan of the pacing of this game. The game has 3/4 sex scenes with your gf and no one else. if you like slow burners, you'll probably like it, renders are nice, story is slow and drama focused

209 chars, and that is REVIEW ONLY, i took out the my preference, the rule breaking, even the comment about it feeling milky.
Still over 200 chars
 

Jeevant

Failed to make an unlimited money mod for my life
Moderator
Modder
Compressor
May 1, 2020
2,119
32,777
Apologies, i didn't add the screenies, i didn't see you replied while i was editing, wasn't trying to do anything sneaky, just missed bits on that post
No problem, you can always open a ticket if you still have doubts about why it was deleted and not edited to discuss it further.
 

Rufio

Member
Sep 4, 2017
222
321
Not sure what you are facepalming, i never said i was treated unfairly, then you quoted a bunch of times i said reviews were treated unfairly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taulion

Rufio

Member
Sep 4, 2017
222
321
Review Moderation - Thread Summary

As it has been more than a day without response i think it would be a good idea to summarize what we have learnt.
It would just save anyone interested in this topic in looking through each page.

In terms of the primary focus of this thread "are positive and negative reviews moderated differently":
Unfortunately, this point is inconclusive, there have been arguments for and against this fact, but no census was reached.
There are unresolved conversations on the matter, but none that could be easily summarized other than it is inconclusive.

The thread has been helpful in terms of better explain the process and how reviews are moderated.
The points below are only from moderators actions and comments on this thread and are not an opinion of myself or other members.


1. Not all reviews (Positive or Negative) that break the rules are moderated in the same way - Thank you Jeevant for your help on the matter
A. Some reported reviews will get deleted, the reviewer will normally get notified after this happens
B. Sometimes moderators will ask the reviewer to change the review without the need to delete
C. Sometimes moderators will delete parts of the review so they are compliant without the need to delete
D. Usually* if A review is easily over 200 relevant characters and not breaking rules then moderators will just remove the parts that break the rules.

2. There are unwritten rules about the star ratings - Thank you fried for your help on this matter
A. The star system is not for you to rate the game from Terrible-Poor-Average-Good-Excellent as the stars labels suggest
B. The star system must show a balance based on the points you raise in your review
C. If you believe the game is terrible, wish to rate the game as terrible, and can objectively say so, it is advised not raise positive points as this could be used as a cause for deletion.
D. The first star to give a game is simply for the game existing.
E. If the art is good a review must have a minimum of 2 stars (However, please see point 2.C)

3. Rule 1 is subjective to moderators opinion - Thank you fried for your help on this matter
If a moderator believes a review is more biased than objective, they may decide you did not try to be objective and any objectivity within the review is purely coincidental.


* Usually in this instance is referring to one moderator, frequency amongst all moderators is unknown

For anyone unsure about what rules were being discussed, please see the Review Rules here:
https://f95zone.to/threads/review-rating-rules-updated-2021-05-31.1753/

Kind Regards,
 

Icarus Media

F95 Comedian
Donor
Game Developer
Jun 19, 2019
8,287
31,198
Review Moderation - Thread Summary

As it has been more than a day without response i think it would be a good idea to summarize what we have learnt.
It would just save anyone interested in this topic in looking through each page.

In terms of the primary focus of this thread "are positive and negative reviews moderated differently":
Unfortunately, this point is inconclusive, there have been arguments for and against this fact, but no census was reached.
There are unresolved conversations on the matter, but none that could be easily summarized other than it is inconclusive.

The thread has been helpful in terms of better explain the process and how reviews are moderated.
The points below are only from moderators actions and comments on this thread and are not an opinion of myself or other members.


1. Not all reviews (Positive or Negative) that break the rules are moderated in the same way - Thank you Jeevant for your help on the matter
A. Some reported reviews will get deleted, the reviewer will normally get notified after this happens
B. Sometimes moderators will ask the reviewer to change the review without the need to delete
C. Sometimes moderators will delete parts of the review so they are compliant without the need to delete
D. Usually* if A review is easily over 200 relevant characters and not breaking rules then moderators will just remove the parts that break the rules.

2. There are unwritten rules about the star ratings - Thank you fried for your help on this matter
A. The star system is not for you to rate the game from Terrible-Poor-Average-Good-Excellent as the stars labels suggest
B. The star system must show a balance based on the points you raise in your review
C. If you believe the game is terrible, wish to rate the game as terrible, and can objectively say so, it is advised not raise positive points as this could be used as a cause for deletion.
D. The first star to give a game is simply for the game existing.
E. If the art is good a review must have a minimum of 2 stars (However, please see point 2.C)

3. Rule 1 is subjective to moderators opinion - Thank you fried for your help on this matter
If a moderator believes a review is more biased than objective, they may decide you did not try to be objective and any objectivity within the review is purely coincidental.


* Usually in this instance is referring to one moderator, frequency amongst all moderators is unknown

For anyone unsure about what rules were being discussed, please see the Review Rules here:
https://f95zone.to/threads/review-rating-rules-updated-2021-05-31.1753/

Kind Regards,
Fuck Rufio :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

Diconica

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2020
1,100
1,150
A good review is one that both expresses how the person felt playing the game and comes with supporting facts so that a person reading it can accurately judge is the game for them.

There are a lot of things a game can be judged on. Not everything on the following list applies to every game. For example not all games have a plot.
Game play:
1. The mechanics of the game and are they intuitive. Or are left struggling how the developer expects you to do the next part.​
Example: would be using both mouse buttons to drag items but having to guess which one to activate an item.​
2. How much time is used going from point A to point B rather than actual game play.​
3. Does the game use a map but have no real reason for it or does it actually make use of the map.​
Example: Monster avoidance, finding items, secret locations and event ties​
4. How much of the content is accessible on a single play through​
5. Do you have to replay or play from different saved points to see all the content.​
6. How laggy is the game​
7. how buggy is the game​
8. How much grinding is there in the game​
a) Does the developer come up with new ways for you to increase points or are you just repeating the same things​
9. How clicky is the game - How much clicking you have to do just to do simple tasks.​
10. Does the developer use false choices - choice that don't really matter the out come is the same. Done to make it appear the developer did more work than they did but there is no path created from it.​
11. How much is your own map exploration tied to your choices. Some developers make big maps but you can't actually switch jobs or anything when you want you can only do so when they want the path to open up.​
Example: the difference between Alansya Chronicles and games like Cuckolding Elfen Fire, Brave Alchemist Collete, or Claire's Quest
If you took the map away from Alansya Chronicles the only difference would be you save time going from point A to point B.
You have no real freedom in the game to change jobs when you like as in the other 3 games. The map plays a larger role in the last two than even that.

Visual Art:
1. Style and quality of the art and quantity of art.​
2. Art reuse. example: would be using figures or dolls that can change cloths.​
Music,Voice, & sound:
1. Style of music and quality​
2. Voice​
3. Sounds​
Story:
1. Plot​
a) Does it have plot holes (you don't need to be Shakespeare to get this write, it is 5th grade to 8th grade material)​
b) How well written is it- grammar, punctuation..., paragraph and line development. Again the basics.​
c) Immersion - does the story suck you in feel plausible​
d) Do you get emotionally invested in seeing the out come.​
2. Character development​
a) Do you learn history, motivations of the character​
b) Do you start having emotions connected to characters likes and dislikes​
c) How relatable are characters​
d) Do you get invested in seeing what happens to them​
e) Is character behavior consistent with what should be expected - especially if their is a scale or corruption system in play​
3. Scene development - if this was a book I would list it as part of plot development but with visual games and audio it becomes a thing of its own.​
a) Character arrangement​
b) Camera position​
c) Lighting and atmosphere​
d) ... A lot more​
4. Does it fit​
a) When you look at the timing of events does it fit​
b) Do they feel out of place or thrown in because of some external force outside the story​
c) if you have choice in doing stuff does changing your choices feel like everything fits or is in the proper order​
Example: Character switches jobs and suddenly goes from level 1 slut to level 10 slut or vise versa. She just fucked 5 guys and now she is scared to do a wet T-shirt comp (Usually caused by author trying to fit stuff together than having written it in order)
Replay Ability:
1. How well does the content and game play lend to replaying the game and it not feel like you did it all before.​
Overall:
1. Combined value​
2. If you took away any one part of the list above would it be worth playing.​
Example: If you took the art away would the game still have value?​
Reviews will never be the best they can be on here.
You have a number of things that conflict with one another.
The first being the reason people play games is different. With such you have different play styles. You have people play a game for plot and story. You have others that skip dialog as fast as they can to get to the next scene.
While the guy who plays a game for plot and story could write a reasonable review that isn't possible for the one's who skipped the dialog. They would have to lie about what they know about the dialog and such after all they didn't read it.
Which is funny because you can find them commenting in threads about wanting to skip dialog and then find them posting how great the dialog and the plot is on reviews.

Even among people who do take the time to read we all have differing values and opinions on stuff. The way I see something isn't going to be the way everyone else sees something.
To me the art is a small part of the game. For some other people art has a greater weight or value.
Imagine if a blind person played your VN or game how well would it hold up?

Then you have rule issues. I understand why they don't want other games mentioned because it creates issues of using reviews as a means to advertise. But in doing so it also prevents a good comparison of issues of stuff like how maps are used such as i did above.

There are three groups of people the reviewer, the moderators and the people reading reviews. All of which are comprised of individuals. You are bound to have conflicts.

The biggest problems isn't so much the rules they established for reviews it is the lack of rules established for staff in removing and taking them down.
1. There should be no hidden or unspoken rate system. The rating system should be fixed! Come up with abetter entry system that includes 0 so it reflects the true scale. Think of the Michelin star rating system for restaurants. You don't get a star for participation.
2. The staff should understand people have different values from their own.
3. Imagine if a blind person wrote the review. The art in the game has no value to them. the music might. But they could be death as well.
4. The people doing reviews can't read minds or know all of your expectations or values.
5. It doesn't matter if the staff played the game and got more or less out of it and felt the review is unfair. That's expected because of those different values and play styles and so on.
 
Last edited:

fitgirlbestgirl

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2017
1,141
4,295
Without endorsing anyone in this thread, as a habitual reviewer of games with like 50+ games reviewed I can definitely agree that review moderation on this site has always sucked ass.

The most important review rule is simply "don't get reported and you can do whatever you like," so as long as you don't swim against the circlejerk you're always fine, which explains the vast quantity of absolute shit tier 5 star reviews. But god forbid you utter criticism against a game which either has a large fanbase (who will report you and try to get your review deleted for the slightest perceived rule violation) or fans amongst the staff (who will delete your review or force you to rewrite it by themselves.)

The review rules themselves suck and haven't been thought about in years, they're not uniformly enforced, so they're more like a sword of Damokles hanging over you to fuck you in the ass as soon as some fanboy narcs on you.

Reviewing games should be one of the main aspects of this site but the staff has always treated it as an afterthought.
 

Deleted member 440241

Active Member
Feb 14, 2018
755
1,632
Review Moderation - Thread Summary
Something I didn't see in your Summary. If you have an issue with a mod's decision make a ticket. A mod, possibly the one whose decision you're appealing, will respond. It probably won't help but this is your only recourse.

they're more like a sword of Damokles hanging over you
It's sad that this is the most fitting use of "sword of Damokles" I've ever seen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taulion and Rufio

dusty stu

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,640
1,469
Idea for a new Role: Verified Reviewer.
  • Users with good karma, old accounts, and lots of reviews on this site can apply for 'verified' reviewer status.
  • These 'super' reviews are filtered to the top of the review list.
  • Verified reviewers who are too infrequent in reviewing or get too many complaints get their role removed.
  • Sort of how Rotten Tomatoes has two separate scores, for users and for critics.
  • A link to their paypal will be shared for easier bribery. (kappa)
 

dusty stu

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,640
1,469
Without endorsing anyone in this thread, as a habitual reviewer of games with like 50+ games reviewed I can definitely agree that review moderation on this site has always sucked ass.

The most important review rule is simply "don't get reported and you can do whatever you like," so as long as you don't swim against the circlejerk you're always fine, which explains the vast quantity of absolute shit tier 5 star reviews. But god forbid you utter criticism against a game which either has a large fanbase (who will report you and try to get your review deleted for the slightest perceived rule violation) or fans amongst the staff (who will delete your review or force you to rewrite it by themselves.)

The review rules themselves suck and haven't been thought about in years, they're not uniformly enforced, so they're more like a sword of Damokles hanging over you to fuck you in the ass as soon as some fanboy narcs on you.

Reviewing games should be one of the main aspects of this site but the staff has always treated it as an afterthought.
Who are these mods that are stifling free speech? I've rated many of popular games with 1 stars, and I've never been asked to change a review.
Granted, I stay FAR away from the greatest bastions of fanboys. (3d renpy rpg incest mommyfucker etc, aka, the 30 most popular games on f95).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taulion