RPGM Tower of Trample [v1.18.0.4 + Standalone Floor 10] [Bo Wei/Koda]

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olorex11

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Oct 16, 2017
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everyone is saying that though ...im right couse i like it it..for me mdg sucubus covenant and especially domina are outright dogshit koda s a terrible writer but a great porn writer the rest of the games are shit
Not really, but since you love to try to downplay arguments with strawman fallacies instead of expressing why you think footnosis, vanguard toes, mommy, puppy or hmms for the nth time are "good/DA BEST writing". It's not worth it to have a discussion with you.
 

Dufoe

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Aug 15, 2018
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I don't quite follow your reasoning here. If ToT, with all of its high quality CGs and complex RPGMaker minigames and systems, is being compared to a fairly simple, text-based, mostly CGless RenPy game... Shouldn't that speak volumes of that text-based game and/or be an overall bad sign for ToT?
The only thing the comparison tells me is that tot has no competition because no matter how good the writing is the game itself is nothing but an interactive novel with hardly any visuals. I'm not looking for better writing, I'm looking for a better game.
 

bahamut2195

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2018
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The only thing the comparison tells me is that tot has no competition because no matter how good the writing is the game itself is nothing but an interactive novel with hardly any visuals. I'm not looking for better writing, I'm looking for a better game.
Dude, I'll be the first one to jump aboard the "Visual/Interactive novels aren't games" bandwagon, but MGD doesn't fall into that category. It has a ROBUST combat system, one that is significantly more complex that ToT's, and most of the monsters at this point at least have artwork.

Perhaps you are being deliberately obtuse for dramatic effect, or you haven't played the game in a long time/at all. THat being said, if I had to choose ToT or MGD only, I would choose ToT.
 

Dufoe

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Aug 15, 2018
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It has a ROBUST combat system, one that is significantly more complex that ToT's, and most of the monsters at this point at least have artwork.
I honestly don't see how it's more complex. In my opinion monster girl quest does better job with combat, and that game is pretty basic.
 
Sep 23, 2020
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Celice william32 *Stuff about MGD*
The thing is , MGD is a game with more variety which helps in writing characters. In ToT, every girl is supposed to be a domme that more or less focuses on feet and or sweat, so they all are bound to have a similar-ish personality. It is up to Koda to create the illusion of difference, which isn't an easy task. It's always going to boil down to "HAHA STEPPING ON PP GO BRR", and he needs to make an illusion that it's deeper. MGD has the luxury of having both sub and dom girls and isn't restricted to a singular base fetish. So writing characters in MGD that feel different is a lot easier than in ToT.

I know you dislike Koda, and I'm not trying to defend him but you are simply being unfair with the comparison. And I heavily dislike any sub girls in my games so I naturally have to give more props to ToT and I think many here feel the same.

All that said MGD is a great game and I love Kotone.
 

GearlessJoe

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Jun 17, 2018
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The only thing the comparison tells me is that tot has no competition because no matter how good the writing is the game itself is nothing but an interactive novel with hardly any visuals. I'm not looking for better writing, I'm looking for a better game.
Okay, so you admit that you don't care about the writing... but you still decide to butt in when we're arguing over which game is best when it comes to writing... you're just coping, aren't you?
The thing is , MGD is a game with more variety which helps in writing characters. In ToT, every girl is supposed to be a domme that more or less focuses on feet and or sweat, so they all are bound to have a similar-ish personality. It is up to Koda to create the illusion of difference, which isn't an easy task. It's always going to boil down to "HAHA STEPPING ON PP GO BRR", and he needs to make an illusion that it's deeper. MGD has the luxury of having both sub and dom girls and isn't restricted to a singular base fetish. So writing characters in MGD that feel different is a lot easier than in ToT.

I know you dislike Koda, and I'm not trying to defend him but you are simply being unfair with the comparison. And I heavily dislike any sub girls in my games so I naturally have to give more props to ToT and I think many here feel the same.
I don't think I'm being unfair at all, but you do seem to be biased and/or lacking in imagination, because your argument doesn't make much sense to me.

First of all, I already gave a few examples of how Koda could improve his character work for the current roster ToT villainesses in my last post, before I started talking about MGD. But even if we're working under the assumption that the girls we have right now are irredeemable, Koda still has many outs that he can take.

Saying that because all characters need to be femdom, feet and/or sweat focused that they'll end up being very similar is a non-sequitur. Not only can you create a million different types of dommes that use their feet and sweat in some way because they want to, but in ToT the framework is there for Bo and Koda to be able to introduce any type of character they want into their game. What I mean is this: You don't need to have your character's motivation to be centered around the domination or foot fetish aspect at all, for one simple reason...

The world of ToT is a blank slate (thanks to the lack of significant worldbuilding outside of the tower), so by saying that every male in this world is born with a submissive streak and a foot fetish, suddenly your character doesn't have to an explanation for why they like to dominate men with their feet, they'd simply be doing it because it's a very easy weakness to exploit, or because it's the natural order of this world. At this point you just need a reason for your character to be at the tower, and a very easy excuse to be able to get all kinds of girls in there would be that the matriarch at the top of the tower wanted to recruit the best of the best, so they went around the world looking for them and came across many different types of women with different motivations for joining her, different approaches to domination, different feelings toward it, etc. Not so hard, huh? And that's just one example I came up with on the spot, there's many more justifications you could come up with, if you're creative enough. Actually now that I think about it, what I just came up with might as well already be the case for ToT's world for all we know.
Oh, and also, there's SOOO many subfetishes when it comes to feet and domination, there's so much more Bo and Koda could be doing instead of their usual stuff (smell feet, step on face, sit on face, lick armpits, drink piss) if they really wanted to keep things fresh, for them the sky is the limit, there really is no excuse for how samey the characters and their content feel.
But then again, when you look at how similar in body type all the mistresses are, you really have to wonder if Bo and Koda even want them to feel all that different :unsure: Seems to me like they're just creating whatever they're the horniest for, which isn't a very wide arrange of things, and occasionally mixing things up and throwing us a bone every 5 or so girls... no wonder things are the way the are then.
 
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TopBlade

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Jan 7, 2018
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I mean everyone's going to have their own opinions. I played MGD and don't think it's bad by any means, personally it doesn't hold a candle to TOT in enjoyment, though no other game really does at this moment in my experience.
 
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Dufoe

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Aug 15, 2018
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Okay, so you admit that you don't care about the writing... but you still decide to butt in when we're arguing over which game is best when it comes to writing... you're just coping, aren't you?
I do care about writing, but writing alone isn't enough to make a good game. You are being dishonest if you claim the discussion concerns writing only.
 

Brakalt

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Jul 30, 2018
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Tbh I think what still makes ToT stand out as one of the best femdom games to me is that Koda is actually fairly good at balance and engaging combat and nerfing and buffing items and characters when necessary. Looking at a lot of the top Femdom games on this platform a lot of them are actually really shit from a gameplay perspective. Domina has a pretty bad combat system where all fights usually devolve into using the ability that allows you to live on 0 health and spam one damage spell, while Succubus Covenant just makes you spam the gauntlet ability and one damage ability (and also the formula of these games becomes pretty repetitive after a while). The fights in ToT are actually fairly intricate, with the Jester being pretty cool mechanically and storywise.
 

Khuntai

Newbie
Jun 5, 2018
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I don't quite follow your reasoning here. If ToT, with all of its high quality CGs and complex RPGMaker minigames and systems, is being compared to a fairly simple, text-based, mostly CGless RenPy game... Shouldn't that speak volumes of that text-based game and/or be an overall bad sign for ToT?
Either way, I'm not saying MGD as a game is better than ToT (even though I believe that it is), I'm just saying its writing for the most part is.

While I understand your point about the setting ToT's setting being really shitty and limiting creatively, that's not enough for me to "cut Koda some slack" for the following reasons:

a) I don't see why he can't add backstories to the girls when certain conditions have been met. If he's not feeling like giving the player infodumps on their past all of a sudden, he could always construct small flashback-style RPGM segments of gameplay to tell their stories.

b) He should still be able to add interactions between the girls or other characters in the tower in order to flesh them out a bit (there's already a few "inter-floor" interactions, like in Yvonne's expansion, but they're pretty meaningless and don't characterize the girls in any way).

c) He can even give the girls random hobbies, quirks, eccentricities or fixations, really ANYTHING in order to make them somewhat unique and not as bland as they currently are.

And the most important one...
d) Koda doesn't really give a crap about the "nature" or the "rules" of the tower. Think about it, the setting has already been retconned multiple times. You thought floors were supposed to make sense structurally? Naga pearl magic says no. You thought every villainess was supposed to be of a certain element? Cobra randomly has two, Karen, Crow, Jess and Swan don't even have one. You thought there was supposed to be a single prisoner per floor, and that they were supposed to belong to different dojos? Floor 4 has a herbalist in it because apparently it's okay to eat your own prisoners and find a random kid in the woods to replace them with, Floor 5, 6 and 6.5 have sooo many prisoners it's not even funny anymore. For all we know they could reach Floor 10 and it turns out the tower was actually a dungeon and we've been underground this whole time...

Here you're just being unfair to the characters in MGD imo. Some of them totally are character archetypes of the kind that you'd see in anime, but they're either...

a) Simply done well. They're well characterized via their relationships and interactions with other characters, the trope that they're following is cohesive with the rest of their character, they have some sort of backstory, they can convey a great deal of personality, etc. There's nothing wrong with following character tropes as long as the execution is good. A good example would be Ancilla (aka Best Girl), your typical kuudere but written very solidly.

b) There's a twist. The character archetypes have an added complexity to them that makes them unique. Like for example Elena being the typical office lady that is bored to death of her desk job, except she copes by drinking which has turned her into a crippling alcoholic, or Lilian being this innocent genki church girl... Oh, wait, she's so much of a zealot that she openly engages in monster girl discrimination, seeing their lewdness as impure and vulgar thanks to her religion.

c) They're underdeveloped because they Thresh hasn't gotten to them yet. Trisha is supposed to become a full-fledged succubus at some point, until then she's a solid but kinda basic chracter. Mika used to be just like this but after getting her "character update" she became a lot more interesting, complex and harder to pin down as a single character archetype.

d) They're just bad. I can only think of Nicci and Kyra (both MGs that were released very early on) as completely, unapologetically bland and uninteresting characters, but even Kyra feels on par with Lily while Nicci feels on par with every other ToT villainess in terms of how one-dimensional they are.

e) They're a generic, unnamed NPC. Think the elves, the imps, etc. Feels justifiable to me that these are also kinda basic, but some of them are still top tier like the kunoichi trainees in all of their smug glory.

f) They're played for laughs. MGD can actually be pretty funny at times, which is another testament to the strength of its writing. Example: Perpetua, the GOAT.

And then there's so many other characters that go beyond any "anime cliches" by being so multi-layered and interesting, like Kotone, Mika, Jora, Amber, Sofia, possibly Venefica.

As a closing statement, to add to what bahamut said about Koda's fondness for doing the "I wasn't even using 10% of my full power during that fight" meme with many of his characters, Sofia does exactly that in MGD. But it isn't treated as an amazing feat of pure skill or sexual prowess in her part, instead it's contextualized as TRAGIC because of how combat works in that game. It means that she's so immune to pleasure that she can't be made to climax, which in turn leads you to the somewhat hilarious and emasculating realization that every time you beat her in combat and made her cum, she was actually just faking her orgasms. If that's not genius writing, and the perfect encapsulation of the gap in writing skills that separates Koda and Threshold, then I don't know what is.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Honestly I did believe I was being a bit reductive with my anime cliches comparison, so I went back and read through my favorite old content and some of the newer stuff to get a better perspective. I find Kotone and Sofia's stuff the best (makes sense because they by far have the most dialogue), with a couple that could use some work but have potential (Villi, Venefica, Jora etc), but overall I feel my original stance wasn't too off the mark.

Lillian IS for the most part a genki church girl, and she's not really discriminatory towards monsters but becomes awkward around anyone that acts or dresses overtly lewdly, even humans. She still accepts anyone to her church in proper attire too. Venerae (MGD's God) actually supports relationships between humans and monsters, and so does Lillian, she's just a pure girl afraid of anything more perverted than handholding.

Ancilla is the classic stonefaced kuudere maid, with the added bit that some people can find her demeanor a little offputting, but the game doesn't go into it more than that besides her being a bit self-concious. She's very loving and the monsters in the dungeon all seem to care for her alot. As for Elena I really didn't get what you saw in her, the drinking "problem" is played for laughs and she's just Late 20's spinster: the character.

I could go on but I think everyone gets the idea. Overall my original point was not to shit on Threshold's writing, it's objectively better than alot of the stuff in Tot and MGD is an entertaining game. I just don't believe it's so good Koda couldn't do the same if his ass wasn't phoning it in all the time with most of these floors. Like you said the Tower isn't even that bad of a setting, Koda just doesn't even try to mix up anything but his own deadlines. With some effort Lily could match Kotone or Sofia easily, but the dude doesn't do effort.

EDIT: For fear of looking like a discord stan, FUCK koda and his delays. FUCK koda and his delays. FUCK koda and his delays.
 

Hhhhhhshshsnz

Member
Jul 29, 2020
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And here I thought this argument would end by the time I woke up. Guys chill out. At the end of the day, they're both good porn games and all we really need to talk about is Koda and his fucking delays. That's pretty much the main reason for this thread
 

Walk Cycle

Active Member
Dec 18, 2018
993
2,694
And here I thought this argument would end by the time I woke up. Guys chill out. At the end of the day, they're both good porn games and all we really need to talk about is Koda and his fucking delays. That's pretty much the main reason for this thread
Exactly, whatever you think of Koda's writing there's a large chance you'll still play and get some enjoyment when it releases. WHEN it releases is the big problem.
 

olorex11

Member
Oct 16, 2017
473
833
And here I thought this argument would end by the time I woke up. Guys chill out. At the end of the day, they're both good porn games and all we really need to talk about is Koda and his fucking delays. That's pretty much the main reason for this thread
But we got out of the loop of thrashing Koda's scum delay period. Well I still think that the moment he gets annoyed or too bothered to keep grinding Level 0 he is gonna drop his 0.5 to 0.9 version (depending on how much he lied about progress since the last 2 months) in late November.

Just went to check how their overambition (again) took over Level 0, the first ETA was september 6th at august 28th. Talk about feature creeping.
 
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