RPGM Tower of Trample [v1.18.0.4 + Standalone SC3] [Bo Wei/Koda]

[olorex11]

I think that's where a key difference in how people view all this comes from. If it was 3 years of just ToT I would agree with you it should be near done...

But its not. Its ToT, WG and the half dozen side games.
Not everyone likes the side games and they would defs feel more ripped off.
I Love them and feel the time spread out between them has been fine. Koda really does elevate what Bo initially gives him. Just look at Crow for an example on what giving Koda some extra time can give us in terms of quality.

And to be completly honest I'm sure Kodaand Bo have had creative blocks at least once each in the past 3 years. Koda is always expressinghow he struggles to make each character feel really unique and real and not just me Dom me step on PP and sit on face over and over. Which is what a game like Domina for example has become with its scenes

First, your profile picture is exquisite and shows you are a man of refined taste.

I dropped my patreon sub after Yvonne expansion in late 2018 because I was so angry with the ETA lies, but was more dissapointed with the expansion itself, specifically the dirty boot licking minigame that caused the delays and focused the expansion of her boots instead of her. Just to highlight what Koda coded.
Now, your point is valid and I respect that but you are taking the sidegames as if they were planned since the start of ToT and not as a countermeasure of the development hell that F7 generated almost 2 years ago. The first one being Warrior's Guild rehased, I mean released almost 6 months after F7 was in the first year of delay hell, it was a bare bones old Bo Wei game that he didn't even bother to upgrade the low-res CGs. Also is not even finished to this day. If they had a creative block or were unable to code the city-sized floor that is F7. Why didn't they say so? They were so arrogant that it was better to hope or try for 6 months with no new content but with empty promises than to communicate with the community even after what happened with Yvonne and F6.
Fast forward 2 years and they are both the same liars with their passion project and still excusing themselves with the trying something different argument.

 

[GearlessJoe]

Koda is always expressinghow he struggles to make each character feel really unique and real and not just me Dom me step on PP and sit on face over and over.

I'm glad Koda agrees with me once again about the flaws in his writing, but he really, really should be trying to improve in other areas first. The man really has no concept of prioritization, ffs...

 

[Celice]

I'm glad Koda agrees with me once again about the flaws in his writing, but he really, really should be trying to improve in other areas first. The man really has no concept of prioritization, ffs...

You like MGD writing though which I personally just cant get behind so like there's clearly a difference in prefered writing styles there.

 

[Celice]

First, your profile picture is exquisite and shows you are a man of refined taste.

I dropped my patreon sub after Yvonne expansion in late 2018 because I was so angry with the ETA lies, but was more dissapointed with the expansion itself, specifically the dirty boot licking minigame that caused the delays and focused the expansion of her boots instead of her. Just to highlight what Koda coded.
Now, your point is valid and I respect that but you are taking the sidegames as if they were planned since the start of ToT and not as a countermeasure of the development hell that F7 generated almost 2 years ago. The first one being Warrior's Guild rehased, I mean released almost 6 months after F7 was in the first year of delay hell, it was a bare bones old Bo Wei game that he didn't even bother to upgrade the low-res CGs. Also is not even finished to this day. If they had a creative block or were unable to code the city-sized floor that is F7. Why didn't they say so? They were so arrogant that it was better to hope or try for 6 months with no new content but with empty promises than to communicate with the community even after what happened with Yvonne and F6.
Fast forward 2 years and they are both the same liars with their passion project and still excusing themselves with the trying something different argument.

And I'd completly agree with you as well. At the end of the day I guess I just see the game as something that when an update comes out it will. I'll just go play something else in the meantime. It's not like the patreon has any other benefits besides the Discord so it really shouldn't be something people are that fussed about.

Now if you wanna Fly to Japan with me and we can beat up Yoshihiro Togashi author of HxH and force him to finally finish it that would be great

 

[olorex11]

And I'd completly agree with you as well. At the end of the day I guess I just see the game as something that when an update comes out it will. I'll just go play something else in the meantime. It's not like the patreon has any other benefits besides the Discord so it really shouldn't be something people are that fussed about.

Now if you wanna Fly to Japan with me and we can beat up Yoshihiro Togashi author of HxH and force him to finally finish it that would be great

Overview:
Tower of Trample is an ongoing game about saving your friends from a bunch of vicious villainesses. They will stop you with their wicked femdom-oriented wrestling moves. You will stand against their despicable humiliation and fight your way to the top of the tower. Updates are released on a monthly basis. One villainess will be added in every update.
(from the developer page on Patreon)
It had this, then he changed it to 45 days sometime after 6F if I'm not wrong, by that time I had dropped my support.

One of these days Togashi will drop 18 pages full of text to finish HxH. At least this year Miura did something good with Berserk, that's something.

 

[marcoverrati45]

sadly all newcomers really do is ask ''saVefiLe?'' and ''hOw tO fUllScreEn?''
I'd argue the majority of newbies don't even follow the development of ToT it's my only way to explain their patreon numbers

Go get help buddy and call me what you want i wont give a single s**

 

[GearlessJoe]

Celice william32 If you don't get filtered by the messy intro that got reworked needlessly like 3 times (though I presume that william is coping and has never even played MGD until now), then yes, MGD absolutely has stelllar writing, much better than Koda's easily, especially in the characters department.
And we don't need to argue about whether Koda's writing is flawed because he himself acknowledges it (I did say he was insecure about it). What you're trying to do here is like trying to defend a client who openly admits to having committed the crime, it's pointless.
What we should be arguing about instead is whether he should be concerned with that when there's more pressing matters, like his total and complete lack of motivation (or whatever his issue is, I'm just making an assumption here) which leads him to delay updates upwards of 10 times each, release unfinished content, and give out multiple false release dates over and over and over and over...

 

[Hhhhhhshshsnz]

Celice william32 If you don't get filtered by the messy intro that got reworked needlessly like 3 times (though I presume that william is coping and has never even played MGD until now), then yes, MGD absolutely has stelllar writing, much better than Koda's easily, especially in the characters department.
And we don't need to argue about whether Koda's writing is flawed because he himself acknowledges it (I did say he was insecure about it). What you're trying to do here is like trying to defend a client who openly admits to having committed the crime, it's pointless.
What we should be arguing about instead is whether he should be concerned with that when there's more pressing matters, like his total and complete lack of motivation (or whatever his issue is, I'm just making an assumption here) which leads him to delay updates upwards of 10 times each, release unfinished content, and give out multiple false release dates over and over and over and over...

As someone who's played both games, I have to agree MGD is far superior. I still remember that time when I finished Kotone's 5 step enslavement plan. She taunted me saying I can't beat the last boss of the dungeon anymore and I actually switched from porn game mode to gamer mode. A porn game. Made me willingly use both hands to play. Not even a hard fight. Even now I'm actually hoping for more info on the lore just as much as the new content. The stuff you learn from Kotone and the bunny just leave you wanting more.
In ToT I just wanna see Kaori's big ass really. Definitely not a bad thing but clearly not keeping me as invested as MGD is. And no, the delays aren't helping

 

[Hhhhhhshshsnz]

I can't get Taming 1/2 for Khulan. I get to 0 dignity and get a cutscene with her, but I don't get the Taming 1/2 and nothing happens after the cutscene. Am I doing something wrong?

You must be registered to see the links

A pretty detailed walkthrough for the game upto floor 6. If I recall correctly you have to get your dignity to -3? in order get taming 1/2 but you can double check the guide to be sure. Have fun

 

[Dufoe]

The fact that when asking for a game better than tot I'm given a text based game only speaks in tot's favor I find. I played MGD and I think it's good but there is no way it's superior to tot simply because it's text based.

 

[Ryonaman]

What is this 3rd delay? Do we have a new date to get a new delay?

 

[Khuntai]

Celice william32 If you don't get filtered by the messy intro that got reworked needlessly like 3 times (though I presume that william is coping and has never even played MGD until now), then yes, MGD absolutely has stelllar writing, much better than Koda's easily, especially in the characters department.
And we don't need to argue about whether Koda's writing is flawed because he himself acknowledges it (I did say he was insecure about it). What you're trying to do here is like trying to defend a client who openly admits to having committed the crime, it's pointless.
What we should be arguing about instead is whether he should be concerned with that when there's more pressing matters, like his total and complete lack of motivation (or whatever his issue is, I'm just making an assumption here) which leads him to delay updates upwards of 10 times each, release unfinished content, and give out multiple false release dates over and over and over and over...

While I do agree with you that Koda's writing isn't all that, even for porn game standards, MGD is only a bit better in my opinion. You speak of the character writing but all of the monster girls are anime cliches, and any perceived depth comes from how are they presented more than anything else. The setting/gameplay in MGD is also much more conducive to storytelling, allowing each romantic option to get fairly fleshed out backstories in the many interactions each one gets. For example all Lily would need is a couple more dialogue trees to let the player know what she did before entering the tower and she'd be equal to any girl with a solid amount of content in MGD, despite having a basic ass character arc. To sum it up, I'd call what Koda does not trying at all (as always), while what Threshold does is the bare minimum for what can be called characters.

With that being said FUCK koda and his delays.

 

[Walk Cycle]

"Koda is the best fucking porn writer in the universe"
"Eh not really, sometimes he's above average but he's mostly okay. Some other games do it better"
"Haha fucking coomer playing other porn games aside from ToT. You just said he's above average and that makes me right loser"

That was an odd conversation.

Anyway I seriously don't know why Koda keeps giving himself these unrealistic deadlines. Is it to challenge himself? Does some computer goblin take all his progress the night before he polishes everything up so he has to start all over again? Is his share of the Patreon money not enough for him to dedicate significant time on these games ? Again, why keep extending the deadline for only a week at most? Can't he accurately assess that maybe the work will take three more weeks at least?

 

[Fruitsi]

> Level:0 Progress Report Hi everyone. I need a bit more time to finish Level:0, so I'm pushing the release to October 30.

That's today, isn't it?

 

[Weta]

What is this 3rd delay? Do we have a new date to get a new delay?

No date, just delay.

 

[gmodking666]

That's today, isn't it?

was delayed again i think

 

[bahamut2195]

While I do agree with you that Koda's writing isn't all that, even for porn game standards, MGD is only a bit better in my opinion. You speak of the character writing but all of the monster girls are anime cliches, and any perceived depth comes from how are they presented more than anything else. The setting/gameplay in MGD is also much more conducive to storytelling, allowing each romantic option to get fairly fleshed out backstories in the many interactions each one gets. For example all Lily would need is a couple more dialogue trees to let the player know what she did before entering the tower and she'd be equal to any girl with a solid amount of content in MGD, despite having a basic ass character arc. To sum it up, I'd call what Koda does not trying at all (as always), while what Threshold does is the bare minimum for what can be called characters.

With that being said FUCK koda and his delays.

Now, I have some thoughts on the subject of writing. I think Koda has made ToT a better product, hands down, no question. Those of us who were playing this game before Koda can attest to that, and will I think. Koda is also really good at creating a femdom oriented scenario. He has had some genuinely great ideas when it comes to expanding upon Ethan's degradation. Again, I think most will agree that is true, since without Koda's writing, we would really only have the battles, the art, and a picture (think Scarlett's loss pictures), and a couple lines of almost English dialogue (sorry Bo Wei).

That being said, Koda is not so great at writing dialogue for the events. He isn't bad by any means. I would say he is above average. He does however fall short, and this is an area in which Threshold shines. Thresh has a better eye for detail in his writing, is able to provide more variety even within the same fetish, and sells a better story of seduction. MGD enemies convince and seduce the protagonist in more creative ways. ToT opponents are some semblance of "my foot stink overpowers Ethan because it is so strong. Also footnosis". Koda also overuses the terms "Puppy" "Auntie" and "Mommy" way too much, to name a few.

And then there is the "meta" world. Games like MGD, MGQ and Succubus Covenant, and even the much complained about (at least in this thread) Domina do a reasonably-to-good job of making a world that is at least somewhat interesting. There is some lore there that makes the player wonder. ToT's meta world is absolute crap. Outside of there being elemental dojo's and the Great Plains Tribes, it might as well not exist. When asked why the ladies are doing what they are doing, the conversation goes something along the lines of:

Ethan: "Why are you doing this"

Villain: "Shut up kid. *mumble mumble* higher floor *mumble mumble*"

Someone also mentioned anime cliches when discussing MGD. Really? Does this sound familiar? "An opponent that is secretly way stronger than a protagonist, but only fights at a fraction of their power, and justifies it with some half assed "i wanted to test you to see if you are worthy" excuse"? Sounds an awful lot tike Tomono or Alma Elma or 150,000 other anime villains to me. Speaking of MGQ, how about the "Oh no, I'm hopelessly overmatched. What's this, a secretly unheard of massive power hidden inside me? I'm super strong now! Oh shit, I can't control/maintain it! *Faints*". Then the villain is all like "I'm not gonna kill this potentially dangerous person because of some dumb reason. This will in no way bite me in the ass later!". Koda and Bo Wei have committed to some of the most overused and uninspired anime cliches ever. So much so that everyone who saw that Karen scene immediately could connect it to something they have seen already, whether it be MGQ or DBZ or whatever.

Koda is good at what he does. Bo is a pretty good artist when he isn't tracing other people's work. They also have glaring weaknesses. Koda could use a real writer to write scenes, character personalities (they're all pretty similar even across different games), and backstory/plot. They both badly need a real programmer based on what Sylph Phoenix has said. I'm a fan of the game and the devs, and I always will be, but they still have a lot of room to improve.

 

[Fruitsi]

was delayed again i think

Probably. Could you reply to me if you found out that it wad delayed again?

 

[Khuntai]

Your posts in a nutshell:
"Your opinion is different than mine you are stupid"

Also, in case English isn't your first language, punctuation is not optional.


Now, I have some thoughts on the subject of writing. I think Koda has made ToT a better product, hands down, no question. Those of us who were playing this game before Koda can attest to that, and will I think. Koda is also really good at creating a femdom oriented scenario. He has had some genuinely great ideas when it comes to expanding upon Ethan's degradation. Again, I think most will agree that is true, since without Koda's writing, we would really only have the battles, the art, and a picture (think Scarlett's loss pictures), and a couple lines of almost English dialogue (sorry Bo Wei).

That being said, Koda is not so great at writing dialogue for the events. He isn't bad by any means. I would say he is above average. He does however fall short, and this is an area in which Threshold shines. Thresh has a better eye for detail in his writing, is able to provide more variety even within the same fetish, and sells a better story of seduction. MGD enemies convince and seduce the protagonist in more creative ways. ToT opponents are some semblance of "my foot stink overpowers Ethan because it is so strong. Also footnosis". Koda also overuses the terms "Puppy" "Auntie" and "Mommy" way too much, to name a few.

And then there is the "meta" world. Games like MGD, MGQ and Succubus Covenant, and even the much complained about (at least in this thread) Domina do a reasonably-to-good job of making a world that is at least somewhat interesting. There is some lore there that makes the player wonder. ToT's meta world is absolute crap. Outside of there being elemental dojo's and the Great Plains Tribes, it might as well not exist. When asked why the ladies are doing what they are doing, the conversation goes something along the lines of:

Ethan: "Why are you doing this"

Villain: "Shut up kid. *mumble mumble* higher floor *mumble mumble*"

Someone also mentioned anime cliches when discussing MGD. Really? Does this sound familiar? "An opponent that is secretly way stronger than a protagonist, but only fights at a fraction of their power, and justifies it with some half assed "i wanted to test you to see if you are worthy" excuse"? Sounds an awful lot tike Tomono or Alma Elma or 150,000 other anime villains to me. Speaking of MGQ, how about the "Oh no, I'm hopelessly overmatched. What's this, a secretly unheard of massive power hidden inside me? I'm super strong now! Oh shit, I can't control/maintain it! *Faints*". Then the villain is all like "I'm not gonna kill this potentially dangerous person because of some dumb reason. This will in no way bite me in the ass later!". Koda and Bo Wei have committed to some of the most overused and uninspired anime cliches ever. So much so that everyone who saw that Karen scene immediately could connect it to something they have seen already, whether it be MGQ or DBZ or whatever.

Koda is good at what he does. Bo is a pretty good artist when he isn't tracing other people's work. They also have glaring weaknesses. Koda could use a real writer to write scenes, character personalities (they're all pretty similar even across different games), and backstory/plot. They both badly need a real programmer based on what Sylph Phoenix has said. I'm a fan of the game and the devs, and I always will be, but they still have a lot of room to improve.

I agree with pretty much all of this, but I think a couple of my points need clarification.

>That being said, Koda is not so great at writing dialogue for the events
Agreed. The manner in which the mistresses break Ethan down is too samey, due in no small part to the way Koda writes his dialogue. Like could anyone really give me a non-superficial difference between Cobra, Scarlett, and Theresa, despite Cobra and Scarlett being seperated by like 2 years of irl time and Theresa being from an entirely different game?

>Thresh has a better eye for detail in his writing, is able to provide more variety even within the same fetish, and sells a better story of seduction.
This is one area where Thresholds writing is at least two tiers above Koda's, his descriptive text is on point. Koda relies a bit too much on metaphors in his writing for my taste.

>And then there is the "meta" world. Games like MGD, MGQ and Succubus Covenant, and even the much complained about (at least in this thread) Domina do a reasonably-to-good job of making a world that is at least somewhat interesting.
I mention this is in my post. The Tower in tot is almost ANTI-story in the way it limits creative freedom in writing, that's why I cut Koda some slack here. The gameplay in MGD also helps a bunch.

>Someone also mentioned anime cliches when discussing MGD.
Yeah that was me. My point was that MGD's romantic options are an array of anime tropes and cliches (the tsundere, the kuudere, etc) and me having seen a lot of anime in my time finds them barely any more interesting than the literal non characters in Bo games, despite having more work put into them. The only stand out Tot mistress is Lily, with the small character arc she gets in game.

With that being said FUCK koda and his delays.

 

[GearlessJoe]

The fact that when asking for a game better than tot I'm given a text based game only speaks in tot's favor I find. I played MGD and I think it's good but there is no way it's superior to tot simply because it's text based.

I don't quite follow your reasoning here. If ToT, with all of its high quality CGs and complex RPGMaker minigames and systems, is being compared to a fairly simple, text-based, mostly CGless RenPy game... Shouldn't that speak volumes of that text-based game and/or be an overall bad sign for ToT?
Either way, I'm not saying MGD as a game is better than ToT (even though I believe that it is), I'm just saying its writing for the most part is.

I mention this is in my post. The Tower in tot is almost ANTI-story in the way it limits creative freedom in writing, that's why I cut Koda some slack here. The gameplay in MGD also helps a bunch.

While I understand your point about the setting ToT's setting being really shitty and limiting creatively, that's not enough for me to "cut Koda some slack" for the following reasons:

a) I don't see why he can't add backstories to the girls when certain conditions have been met. If he's not feeling like giving the player infodumps on their past all of a sudden, he could always construct small flashback-style RPGM segments of gameplay to tell their stories.

b) He should still be able to add interactions between the girls or other characters in the tower in order to flesh them out a bit (there's already a few "inter-floor" interactions, like in Yvonne's expansion, but they're pretty meaningless and don't characterize the girls in any way).

c) He can even give the girls random hobbies, quirks, eccentricities or fixations, really ANYTHING in order to make them somewhat unique and not as bland as they currently are.

And the most important one...
d) Koda doesn't really give a crap about the "nature" or the "rules" of the tower. Think about it, the setting has already been retconned multiple times. You thought floors were supposed to make sense structurally? Naga pearl magic says no. You thought every villainess was supposed to be of a certain element? Cobra randomly has two, Karen, Crow, Jess and Swan don't even have one. You thought there was supposed to be a single prisoner per floor, and that they were supposed to belong to different dojos? Floor 4 has a herbalist in it because apparently it's okay to eat your own prisoners and find a random kid in the woods to replace them with, Floor 5, 6 and 6.5 have sooo many prisoners it's not even funny anymore. For all we know they could reach Floor 10 and it turns out the tower was actually a dungeon and we've been underground this whole time...

Yeah that was me. My point was that MGD's romantic options are an array of anime tropes and cliches (the tsundere, the kuudere, etc) and me having seen a lot of anime in my time finds them barely any more interesting than the literal non characters in Bo games, despite having more work put into them. The only stand out Tot mistress is Lily, with the small character arc she gets in game.

Here you're just being unfair to the characters in MGD imo. Some of them totally are character archetypes of the kind that you'd see in anime, but they're either...

a) Simply done well. They're well characterized via their relationships and interactions with other characters, the trope that they're following is cohesive with the rest of their character, they have some sort of backstory, they can convey a great deal of personality, etc. There's nothing wrong with following character tropes as long as the execution is good. A good example would be Ancilla (aka Best Girl), your typical kuudere but written very solidly.

b) There's a twist. The character archetypes have an added complexity to them that makes them unique. Like for example Elena being the typical office lady that is bored to death of her desk job, except she copes by drinking which has turned her into a crippling alcoholic, or Lilian being this innocent genki church girl... Oh, wait, she's so much of a zealot that she openly engages in monster girl discrimination, seeing their lewdness as impure and vulgar thanks to her religion.

c) They're underdeveloped because they Thresh hasn't gotten to them yet. Trisha is supposed to become a full-fledged succubus at some point, until then she's a solid but kinda basic chracter. Mika used to be just like this but after getting her "character update" she became a lot more interesting, complex and harder to pin down as a single character archetype.

d) They're just bad. I can only think of Nicci and Kyra (both MGs that were released very early on) as completely, unapologetically bland and uninteresting characters, but even Kyra feels on par with Lily while Nicci feels on par with every other ToT villainess in terms of how one-dimensional they are.

e) They're a generic, unnamed NPC. Think the elves, the imps, etc. Feels justifiable to me that these are also kinda basic, but some of them are still top tier like the kunoichi trainees in all of their smug glory.

f) They're played for laughs. MGD can actually be pretty funny at times, which is another testament to the strength of its writing. Example: Perpetua, the GOAT.

And then there's so many other characters that go beyond any "anime cliches" by being so multi-layered and interesting, like Kotone, Mika, Jora, Amber, Sofia, possibly Venefica.

As a closing statement, to add to what bahamut said about Koda's fondness for doing the "I wasn't even using 10% of my full power during that fight" meme with many of his characters, Sofia does exactly that in MGD. But it isn't treated as an amazing feat of pure skill or sexual prowess in her part, instead it's contextualized as TRAGIC because of how combat works in that game. It means that she's so immune to pleasure that she can't be made to climax, which in turn leads you to the somewhat hilarious and emasculating realization that every time you beat her in combat and made her cum, she was actually just faking her orgasms. If that's not genius writing, and the perfect encapsulation of the gap in writing skills that separates Koda and Threshold, then I don't know what is.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.