VN Ren'Py ToxiCity [v0.11.0] [ILSProductions]

[Geminus619]

The mystery goes to new heights, huh?

 

[PaxHadrian17]

The mystery goes to new heights, huh?

Yes... MC will need Paul Bunyan's axe for more than firewood...

Cheers!!

 

[mordred93]

Yes... MC will need Paul Bunyan's axe for more than firewood...

Cheers!!

And Babe (the blue ox), to knock that thing over.

 

[Coder62]

That's a matter of opinion, but there's still far less content. I can play through a TOXICity update in 15-30 minutes; an update to Eternum or Ripples has hours of new content. That isn't a value judgment either way, just a different way ILS chooses to handle updates vs. Jestur or Caribdis.

I'd wager you're skipping dialog then. I proofread every new chapter and it takes me reading at a good pace about 1 hour minimum to 1h 45m per chapter. ILS writes about 9000-18000 words per chapter. You're not reading 18,000 words in 15-30 minutes lol and if you can, good for you but it's certainly not the norm.

 

[pitao]

I'd wager you're skipping dialog then. I proofread every new chapter and it takes me reading at a good pace about 1 hour minimum to 1h 45m per chapter. ILS writes about 9000-18000 words per chapter. You're not reading 18,000 words in 15-30 minutes lol and if you can, good for you but it's certainly not the norm.

I agree with both but you kind of missed the point, the point isn't how fast they read. It is with the same reading pace that ILS simply choses a different development and release content process, less content but often and others more content but 1 or max 2 releases per year.

If we sum the content of both ways is basically a similar content but probably ILS produces a bit more content in the end but with rawer visuals, but those 2 developers dan35 mention take much more care of the visual part, it has much more pos production on the renders and much more complex animations.

I love all those games as you can see from my signature including the 3 ILS games, Kinderfeld is still a slightly better writer in my opinion and Jestur and Caribdis are slightly better visual designers.

 

[Lynava]

I agree with both but you kind of missed the point, the point isn't how fast they read. It is with the same reading pace that ILS simply choses a different development and release content process, less content but often and others more content but 1 or max 2 releases per year.

If we sum the content of both ways is basically a similar content but probably ILS produces a bit more content in the end but with rawer visuals, but those 2 developers dan35 mention take much more care of the visual part, it has much more pos production on the renders and much more complex animations.

I love all those games as you can see from my signature including the 3 ILS games, Kinderfeld is still a slightly better writer in my opinion and Jestur and Caribdis are slightly better visual designers.

To be honest, for me, graphics and animation are second to last...

 

[pitao]

To be honest, for me, graphics and animation are second to last...

For me they are not, you can tell a story without words also and only with visuals, they have meaning too. For me they both have the same value but what matters in the end is the mix end result.

I can give you a practical example, I love sci-fi, by far my favorite genre but reading a sci-fi book for me most the times feels a chore with just a very few books that I really love. Sci-fi without visual aid isn't the same thing, in a sci-fi I want to see how the creator imagines what they write, the world building, the aliens and how a planet looks if applicable, what the gadgets look like etc etc.

Same applies with fantasy genre, my 2nd favorite genre. I love the visuals aid. Besides the Tolkien works that are so rich and what his son released later there is very few fantasy books I enjoy without visuals.

 

[danb35]

I'd wager you're skipping dialog then

Nope. I don't skip dialog, I do read quickly, but I'll admit my "15-30 minutes" was a WAG. For the sake of curiosity, I'll pay attention to how long it takes me to go through 0.12.

But this really is orthogonal to my point, which is that there's substantially less new content in an update of this VN than in an update for others like Eternum or Ripples, and at least a large part of this VN's release schedule has to be attributed to that.

 

[Coder62]

Nope. I don't skip dialog, I do read quickly, but I'll admit my "15-30 minutes" was a WAG. For the sake of curiosity, I'll pay attention to how long it takes me to go through 0.12.

But this really is orthogonal to my point, which is that there's substantially less new content in an update of this VN than in an update for others like Eternum or Ripples, and at least a large part of this VN's release schedule has to be attributed to that.

Right, but that's to be expected when he's releasing it monthly. But it's true that between Eternum's last update and today, ILS has produced 12 chapters ranging about 15 hours worth of content.

I will state though, I love Caribdis's work and obviously the visuals are insanely impressive, but his chapters aren't anywhere close to 15 hours of worth, not even 1/3rd of that I'd wager. I just took umbrage at the notion that the chapters of Eternum are equal to that of ILS's in length but once more, I obviously understand Eternum has much better visuals, no one can argue that.

Again, I love both works, but I have a special spot in my heart for ILS who works himself raw producing all of this content for us for free and has been consistent for years. But I will state, I financially support them both.

EDIT: I should also point out, ILS has a full time job, he doesn't sadly make anywhere near as much as I think he should for his work and still he hits his monthly release targets, having written often times tens of thousands of words of dialog, done hundreds of renders and multiple animations per month. Dude is a legend : )

 

[pitao]

Right, but that's to be expected when he's releasing it monthly. But it's true that between Eternum's last update and today, ILS has produced 12 chapters ranging about 15 hours worth of content.

I will state though, I love Caribdis's work and obviously the visuals are insanely impressive, but his chapters aren't anywhere close to 15 hours of worth, not even 1/3rd of that I'd wager. I just took umbrage at the notion that the chapters of Eternum are equal to that of ILS's in length but once more, I obviously understand Eternum has much better visuals, no one can argue that.

Again, I love both works, but I have a special spot in my heart for ILS who works himself raw producing all of this content for us for free and has been consistent for years. But I will state, I financially support them both.

EDIT: I should also point out, ILS has a full time job, he doesn't sadly make anywhere near as much as I think he should for his work and still he hits his monthly release targets, having written often times tens of thousands of words of dialog, done hundreds of renders and multiple animations per month. Dude is a legend : )

And you are right, each developer must show more their strengths and Kinderfeld strength is the writing, for me from all the developers in my Tier S games is the best of them all in that department with some following near but still the best. Without that strength alone for sure N&T, TID and Toxicity wouldn't be in my 40ish tier S list, probably just Tier A or B.

 

[danb35]

that's to be expected when he's releasing it monthly

Agreed; I wasn't criticizing. But in response to the question (which was asked) of "how does he manage this release schedule," an obvious part of the answer (which I gave) is "smaller updates."

I just took umbrage at the notion that the chapters of Eternum are equal to that of ILS's in length

I neither said nor implied this to be the case. Part of the answer.

 

[Meabe37]

EDIT: I should also point out, ILS has a full time job,

Wait seriously? Jeez this dev is a machine wtf.

 

[pitao]

Wait seriously? Jeez this dev is a machine wtf.

I actually already knew it, like 95%+++ of the indy developers on this site with a few exceptions have full time jobs. Kinderfeld just like for example Classy Lemon drank on their experience and skill and became very very organized developers, it is incredible the pace they deliver content with the overall quality on their product. its a process that for a few is faster and for most is slower.

 

[Coder62]

I neither said nor implied this to be the case. Part of the answer.

" there's still far less content. I can play through a TOXICity update in 15-30 minutes; an update to Eternum or Ripples has hours of new content." Not that I want to get into an argument, but this statement is what I took to be your implying of it. Given you compared both games chapter sizes versus one another.

 

[Coder62]

Wait seriously? Jeez this dev is a machine wtf.

Normally I wouldn't add more, but he deserves it. I should also mention he's been snowed under the last month with his work as someone was off sick, so he was pulling 60 hour weeks AND it's worthwhile noting that he's finishing up the final version of The Interim Domain at the same time, likely out next month with thousands of new renders, I think 40,000 more words and tons of new and fixed animations plus new endings etc.

 

[pitao]

Can we move along? It is clearly implied that the "has hours of new content" is due to the fact that each release take longer as well lol so it is normal that those chapters/episodes are larger as well and by my knowledge both Caribdis and Jestur do 1 episode per release. This is going nowhere . ILS games usually have around 20+ chapters (forgot how many N&T had though, but TID has that many), while the other 2 games if they reach 10-12 episodes is already a very very large game.

Can we agree that this 3 developers are awesome and worth any praise we can give them hehe.

 

[Coder62]

Can we move along? It is clearly implied that the "has hours of new content" is due to the fact that each release take longer as well lol so it is normal that those chapters/episodes are larger as well and by my knowledge both Caribdis and Jestur do 1 episode per release. This is going nowhere . ILS games usually have around 20+ chapters (forgot how many N&T had though, but TID has that many), while the other 2 games if they reach 10-12 episodes is already a very very large game.

Can we agree that this 3 developers are awesome and worth any praise we can give them hehe.

Of course, as I said I don't want to get into an argument, I was just saying why I got that impression from you, no big deal as that's clearly not what you meant. And yes, very much agree they're great, although I've never played the 3rd dev's game you've mentioned. I should look into Ripples.

 

[pitao]

Of course, as I said I don't want to get into an argument, I was just saying why I got that impression from you, no big deal as that's clearly not what you meant. And yes, very much agree they're great, although I've never played the 3rd dev's game you've mentioned. I should look into Ripples.

You should, it is about time travel though, not everyone enjoys that sub genre of sci-fi because it usually leads to some inconsistencies and paradoxes. I love it and it is one of the few sub genres of sci-fi that I enjoy to read books about it as well because can be done without have to show visuals.

But the visuals are the one best around when the game is still done with Honey Select 1, but Jestur does a lot of polish on the renders and pos production that is why usually is 6-9 months per update. Puts most honey select 2 games to shame visually with so much designing good work. He also writes pretty well.

 

[Coder62]

You should, it is about time travel though, not everyone enjoys that sub genre of sci-fi because it usually leads to some inconsistencies and paradoxes. I love it and it is one of the few sub genres of sci-fi that I enjoy to read books about it as well because can be done without have to show visuals.

But the visuals are the one best around when the game is still done with Honey Select 1, but Jestur does a lot of polish on the renders and pos production that is why usually is 6-9 months per update. Puts most honey select 2 games to shame visually with so much designing good work. He also writes pretty well.

Well, you've certainly sold me mate. I've really been into sci-fi recently with my book choices, so this'll go nicely with that! Many thanks!