RPGM [Translation Request] The Mask of Blue and Silver/蒼銀の仮面 [Nuko Majin]

[monsterartisan]

If he was busy with another project he should've come out and said *something* about it.

This lack of communication is entirely on him.

Imagine sitting in a restaurant and the chef is busy prepping somebody else's food while you're waiting and nobody comes out to say anything. I'm sure there's a limit to your patience.

Did you miss the part when I said that is not the point of support sites? The restaurant comparison means you are missing the point then. The support site is not supposed to serve you a "dish". A one man dev is not supposed to do PR work for impatient idiots like the ones in the comment section.

 

[Missmiles]

Did you miss the part when I said that is not the point of support sites? The restaurant comparison means you are missing the point then. The support site is not supposed to serve you a "dish". A one man dev is not supposed to do PR work for impatient idiots like the ones in the comment section.

Doesn't matter if it's one man or a hundred. An issue comes up, the one receiving money (or any form of compensation) is obliged to inform the ones paying them that there will be a delay. That is accountability. That is why Cien and most other 'support sites' have comment sections.

Were those people rude? Somewhat, yes. Were they in the right to be dissatisfied? Yes.

Support sites are channels for payment and communication that legalize and regulate the processes involved, period.

 

[monsterartisan]

Doesn't matter if it's one man or a hundred. An issue comes up, the one receiving money (or any form of compensation) is obliged to inform the ones paying them that there will be a delay. That is accountability.

Were those people rude? Somewhat, yes. Were they in the right to be dissatisfied? Yes.

Support sites are channels for payment that legalize and regulate the processes involved, period.

You still do not UNDERSTAND that this is NOT a transaction. It is an investment. An investment so that a game WILL COME OUT. That is the main goal. For the game to come out. The point of the SUPPORT is so that the dev can stop worrying for rent and food or other part time, so that they can continue dev'ing.

Pampering entitled, impatient and rude commenters by putting out monthly update (even though it is not needed) would just make the dev prone to burn out. Burn out = less efficiency = more time until release. Devs are not fucking robots to order around.

No the comments are not correct. They have no proof of the dev being "lazy". They have no proof of the dev just "taking the coins".

Doesn't matter if it's one man or a hundred

It does. Manpower is relevant. A one man dev means they are probably not proficient on one of the 2 main works of game development. "But the dev can just hire a programmer". I believe the dev specifically said they don't want to leave it to the "specialists" because they would not know how to explain their random ideas. The game also has a somewhat complex mechanic for an rpgm game. Having said that, somebody that is already busy on doing too many things. You want them to give you frequent status report on top of working on 2 things at once!? An update will come when it comes out. Sometimes it feels like people forgot what the meaning of patience.

An issue comes up, the one receiving money (or any form of compensation) is obliged to inform the ones paying them that there will be a delay. That is accountability.

A game "taking a long time" to develop isn't even an issue. That's just a normal thing that happens in game development. Having no updates is not an issue. The only thing that matters is if they are continuing on making the game. That's it.
This is not a fucking AAAAA company. There is no "schedule", there is even no release date at the moment. Meaning, who would even know if it is a delay or not? This is what I mean by entitlement. Do you just want to be lied to your face? Do you want the dev to grovel on the ground and say sorry? That's just toxic entitlement. Maybe if the dev announced a concrete target release date. Then sure. But was there an announced target date of release? This "accountability" thing on a scale of this work is total bullshit. It's not like they are actively screwing with their supporters? If you think it is taking too long then stop donating?

If you want the game to come out, then negative reinforcement is not a good motivator . It is a morale killer.

 

[Jojo8888888888]

You still do not UNDERSTAND that this is NOT a transaction. It is an investment. An investment so that a game WILL COME OUT. That is the main goal. For the game to come out. The point of the SUPPORT is so that the dev can stop worrying for rent and food or other part time, so that they can continue dev'ing.

Pampering entitled, impatient and rude commenters by putting out monthly update (even though it is not needed) would just make the dev prone to burn out. Burn out = less efficiency = more time until release. Devs are not fucking robots to order around.

No the comments are not correct. They have no proof of the dev being "lazy". They have no proof of the dev just "taking the coins".


It does. Manpower is relevant. A one man dev means they are probably not proficient on one of the 2 main works of game development. "But the dev can just hire a programmer". I believe the dev specifically said they don't want to leave it to the "specialists" because they would not know how to explain their random ideas. The game also has a somewhat complex mechanic for an rpgm game. Having said that, somebody that is already busy on doing too many things. You want them to give you frequent status report on top of working on 2 things at once!? An update will come when it comes out. Sometimes it feels like people forgot what the meaning of patience.



A game "taking a long time" to develop isn't even an issue. That's just a normal thing that happens in game development. Having no updates is not an issue. The only thing that matters is if they are continuing on making the game. That's it.
This is not a fucking AAAAA company. There is no "schedule", there is even no release date at the moment. Meaning, who would even know if it is a delay or not? This is what I mean by entitlement. Do you just want to be lied to your face? Do you want the dev to grovel on the ground and say sorry? That's just toxic entitlement. Maybe if the dev announced a concrete target release date. Then sure. But was there an announced target date of release? This "accountability" thing on a scale of this work is total bullshit. It's not like they are actively screwing with their supporters? If you think it is taking too long then stop donating?

If you want the game to come out, then negative reinforcement is not a good motivator . It is a morale killer.

This topic you two have is interesting, so I felt like joining in. What you say here is legal fact or personal perception? Take a look at Bethesda. Were They at their most creative when they had the most people/money? No. Was time burnout key when they were successful, and was it key now that they are not? No. Support serves it's purpuse if it is not misused. I think Nuko Majin so far has done nothing to deserve suspicious treatment. Their last game was not nearly as good as the red slayer one. But this current one looks decent. Plus the author helps some new creator by producing art. I personally lean towards thinking that Nuko, as of yet, does not misuse their resources like Bethesda (my intention is not to attack Bethesda, they may yet do comeback with a good game, if they find heart, but it is a good example), but only time will really tell.

 

[monsterartisan]

This topic you two have is interesting, so I felt like joining in. What you say here is legal fact or personal perception? Take a look at Bethesda. Were They at their most creative when they had the most people/money? No. Was time burnout key when they were successful, and was it key now that they are not? No. Support serves it's purpuse if it is not misused. I think Nuko Majin so far has done nothing to deserve suspicious treatment. Their last game was not nearly as good as the red slayer one. But this current one looks decent. Plus the author helps some new creator by producing art. I personally lean towards thinking that Nuko, as of yet, does not misuse their resources like Bethesda (my intention is not to attack Bethesda, they may yet do comeback with a good game, if they find heart, but it is a good example), but only time will really tell.

I am not sure about the 100% legality of things. But I am quite sure what the purpose of support sites are, like ci-en and patreon. They are not transaction sites where you pay for something and you get something. The purpose is to ensure a dev is working on the project and so it would ease the burden of income. Possibly making them not rely on part time jobs and have full time focus on the project.

I agree. Nuko has a good track record for releasing games. They released a couple, so it is common sense that you would have the benefit of the doubt.

Tbh with you, I'm not even sure if I would compare solo devs like these with big companies like that. Big companies are prone to greed and corruption. But all in all, I agree with you. The dev does not deserve these impatiently rude comments. My point with burnout was that, a one dev should not feel pressured to release frequent updates on top of having negative comments just because it does not come out sooner. I just think people nowadays don't care much about mental strain, hence my reference to burn out... If they want it to release sooner then it makes sense that the dev should be stress-free and without pressure by impatient comments. The dev even kept saying that their system is complex, at least that's what I got from the MTL.

If we want quality products. We need patience... It makes sense that a good quality game would take time to make... If we want a good NTR game that is also slow burn with interesting mechanics. We would have to wait... Else we will get a game that will have a short playtime..

 

[yurilover8]

+1

 

[Missmiles]

I am not sure about the 100% legality of things. But I am quite sure what the purpose of support sites are, like ci-en and patreon. They are not transaction sites where you pay for something and you get something. The purpose is to ensure a dev is working on the project and so it would ease the burden of income. Possibly making them not rely on part time jobs and have full time focus on the project.

I agree. Nuko has a good track record for releasing games. They released a couple, so it is common sense that you would have the benefit of the doubt.

Tbh with you, I'm not even sure if I would compare solo devs like these with big companies like that. Big companies are prone to greed and corruption. But all in all, I agree with you. The dev does not deserve these impatiently rude comments. My point with burnout was that, a one dev should not feel pressured to release frequent updates on top of having negative comments just because it does not come out sooner. I just think people nowadays don't care much about mental strain, hence my reference to burn out... If they want it to release sooner then it makes sense that the dev should be stress-free and without pressure by impatient comments. The dev even kept saying that their system is complex, at least that's what I got from the MTL.

If we want quality products. We need patience... It makes sense that a good quality game would take time to make... If we want a good NTR game that is also slow burn with interesting mechanics. We would have to wait... Else we will get a game that will have a short playtime..

Accountability--and responsibility--does not change. Nuko is still on the hook for this game.

If you want track record, I'll point you at Technobrake. He released one really good game--I think it's even considered one of the greats--and then he stalled out on his new project and started churning out demo after demo of concepts. He made a big deal of moving his new project to MV...and even though he still updates, it's a bit of a consensus by now that Techno is milking supporters.

Big companies ARE prone to greed and corruption. That does not mean a single person isn't. There are plenty of devs who work alone AND milk their supporters. The difference is scale--corporate greed is to the tone of millions of dollars with hundreds of thousands of people affected, while a single person might be milking, say, a few hundred or a couple thousand a month from their, say, 50 supporters? Maybe around a hundred?

I'll admit there's a difference between those numbers, but YOU must admit that the *nature* of greed is the same.

If the dev wants us to be patient, then they should give regular progress reports. Nobody was asking them to put out a finished product immediately. The progress report is reassurance that the dev is getting closer to fulfilling the promise of a game.

Again, there is an example--Takeda Hiromitsu's new game is now, what, four, five years in development? And yet people keep giving him money and aren't too impatient. Why? Because Takeda puts out on average one scene a month--and streams himself drawing them. That reassures the fans, and they keep up their support.

 

[Missmiles]

This topic you two have is interesting, so I felt like joining in. What you say here is legal fact or personal perception? Take a look at Bethesda. Were They at their most creative when they had the most people/money? No. Was time burnout key when they were successful, and was it key now that they are not? No. Support serves it's purpuse if it is not misused. I think Nuko Majin so far has done nothing to deserve suspicious treatment. Their last game was not nearly as good as the red slayer one. But this current one looks decent. Plus the author helps some new creator by producing art. I personally lean towards thinking that Nuko, as of yet, does not misuse their resources like Bethesda (my intention is not to attack Bethesda, they may yet do comeback with a good game, if they find heart, but it is a good example), but only time will really tell.

Honestly I agree. Nuko's track record is good enough to deserve patience. There is, however, a difference between patience and submission. A dev is not entitled to support and praise any more than they are to attacks and insults.

I am simply of the opinion that his PAYING supporters have the right to complain at him so long as they haven't withdrawn support yet. They deserve returns for their investment.

Yes, time will tell. And meanwhile, those who are still paying Nuko still retain the right to complain, that's all. And if they choose to use that right, well, that's for Nuko to deal with.

Why is this debate even happening, I could not say.

 

[monsterartisan]

Accountability--and responsibility--does not change. Nuko is still on the hook for this game.

If you want track record, I'll point you at Technobrake. He released one really good game--I think it's even considered one of the greats--and then he stalled out on his new project and started churning out demo after demo of concepts. He made a big deal of moving his new project to MV...and even though he still updates, it's a bit of a consensus by now that Techno is milking supporters.

Big companies ARE prone to greed and corruption. That does not mean a single person isn't. There are plenty of devs who work alone AND milk their supporters. The difference is scale--corporate greed is to the tone of millions of dollars with hundreds of thousands of people affected, while a single person might be milking, say, a few hundred or a couple thousand a month from their, say, 50 supporters? Maybe around a hundred?
-I'll admit there's a difference between those numbers, but YOU must admit that the *nature* of greed is the same.

If the dev wants us to be patient, then they should give regular progress reports. Nobody was asking them to put out a finished product immediately. The progress report is reassurance that the dev is getting closer to fulfilling the promise of a game.

Again, there is an example--Takeda Hiromitsu's new game is now, what, four, five years in development? And yet people keep giving him money and aren't too impatient. Why? Because Takeda puts out on average one scene a month--and streams himself drawing them. That reassures the fans, and they keep up their support.

You need to relearn what accountability really means. Nuko did not do anything outright wrong yet. Nothing to be "accountable" for
What does other devs have to do with this then? Nuko released MULTIPLE games. That is a good track record as far as I am concerned.

I wont admit to anything. A big company is MORE LIKELY. (higher chance) of corruption than a single indie dev. You are totally missing the point. The more you reply the more you prove everything is going over your head. The more you prove that you are one of those entitled people who can't be assed to be patient. What do you want from the progress report? "Hi guys I'm working on it" It's just fucking common sense!? This dev delivered multiple times so the dev gains the benefit of the doubt.

Again what does others have to do with Nuko? Different people have different ways of doing things. Streaming regularly just puts more strain on the workload. No wonder it is taking 5 years. Demanding devs to put on a show every single month just so that people won't whine is the exact thing I am talking about being entitled and being impatient. Some devs just like to take their time to get things done. Uninterrupted work cycle is better than an interrupted one just because they have to fucking write frequent reports. There are a couple of H devs that are like this too... I can't remember the name but it was in blogspot with a metroid like game. People kept being impatient even though the dev is consistent, albeit it takes months for updates.

You keep missing the point over and over and over? Like I already told you. Having more work = more time for the game to come out? So you would want temporary reassurance at the cost of the game being delayed. Instead of keeping quiet and just trust on the dev that delivered multiple times? So that the game would come out earlier?

They already said that the stuff is complicated. If they say something like "I changed this thing because I did not prefer it" as "regular report" people will still complain for "BOOHOO STALLING"....

A couple of months without updates is not a reason to suspect milking when the dev delivered multiple times.

 

[monsterartisan]

Honestly I agree. Nuko's track record is good enough to deserve patience. There is, however, a difference between patience and submission. A dev is not entitled to support and praise any more than they are to attacks and insults.

I am simply of the opinion that his PAYING supporters have the right to complain at him so long as they haven't withdrawn support yet. They deserve returns for their investment.

Yes, time will tell. And meanwhile, those who are still paying Nuko still retain the right to complain, that's all. And if they choose to use that right, well, that's for Nuko to deal with.

Why is this debate even happening, I could not say.

Keyword SUPPORTERS. They are not customers. They don't have the right to complain in a toxic manner if they don't have any evidence that the dev is actually being "lazy".

Why is this debate even happening, I could not say.

Because you are excusing toxic and rude behavior just because they are "paying". Which you don't even know if those rude commenters are actually paying. Nobody has the right to moan and whine if they don't actually have the proper info to go by. Being impatient does not excuse anybody to act like a baby.

 

[monsterartisan]

TBH do you even know if those who sent the toxic comments are paying subscribers? The toxic comments were in chinese. Do they even have a way to pay on ci-en?

 

[Missmiles]

You need to relearn what accountability really means. Nuko did not do anything outright wrong yet. Nothing to be "accountable" for
What does other devs have to do with this then? Nuko released MULTIPLE games. That is a good track record as far as I am concerned.

I wont admit to anything. A big company is MORE LIKELY. (higher chance) of corruption than a single indie dev. You are totally missing the point. The more you reply the more you prove everything is going over your head. The more you prove that you are one of those entitled people who can't be assed to be patient. What do you want from the progress report? "Hi guys I'm working on it" It's just fucking common sense!? This dev delivered multiple times so the dev gains the benefit of the doubt.

Again what does others have to do with Nuko? Different people have different ways of doing things. Streaming regularly just puts more strain on the workload. No wonder it is taking 5 years. Demanding devs to put on a show every single month just so that people won't whine is the exact thing I am talking about being entitled and being impatient. Some devs just like to take their time to get things done. Uninterrupted work cycle is better than an interrupted one just because they have to fucking write frequent reports. There are a couple of H devs that are like this too... I can't remember the name but it was in blogspot with a metroid like game. People kept being impatient even though the dev is consistent, albeit it takes months for updates.

You keep missing the point over and over and over? Like I already told you. Having more work = more time for the game to come out? So you would want temporary reassurance at the cost of the game being delayed. Instead of keeping quiet and just thrust on the dev that delivered multiple times? So that the game would come out earlier?

They already said that the stuff is complicated. If they say something like "I changed this thing because I did not prefer it" as "regular report" people will still complain for "BOOHOO STALLING"....

A couple of months without updates is not a reason to suspect milking when the dev delivered multiple times.

I mean...if you feel so strongly about it, why not start by becoming a paying supporter and see how you like it when it's your hard-earned money?

I wouldn't complain, I would just stop paying. I'm not one to spew vitriol in the comments--I'll make a request for I want to see for my money, and if there's no satisfactory response--word followed by action--I close my wallet. End of story.

Yes, assuming I'm still paying whoever it is in your example, I want a simple 'Hi guys I'm working on it' plus one or two new images to prove it--on the regular. It's not common sense--it's called reasonable expectations.

The main reason it's taking so long is because Takeda insists on hand-drawn animation for every scene...and he's still drawing doujins in between. TH is in my opinion among those most deserving of fan support and money.

Keyword SUPPORTERS. They are not customers. They don't have the right to complain in a toxic manner if they don't have any evidence that the dev is actually being "lazy".

Keyword PAYING. They have the right to complain if they feel like they aren't getting their money's worth. The burden of proof is on Nuko--and that is the purpose of progress reports.

 

[monsterartisan]

I mean...if you feel so strongly about it, why not start by becoming a paying supporter and see how you like it when it's your hard-earned money?

I wouldn't complain, I would just stop paying. I'm not one to spew vitriol in the comments--I'll make a request for I want to see for my money, and if there's no satisfactory response--word followed by action--I close my wallet. End of story.

Yes, assuming I'm still paying whoever it is in your example, I want a simple 'Hi guys I'm working on it' plus one or two new images to prove it--on the regular. It's not common sense--it's called reasonable expectations.

The main reason it's taking so long is because Takeda insists on hand-drawn animation for every scene...and he's still drawing doujins in between. TH is in my opinion among those most deserving of fan support and money.



Keyword PAYING. They have the right to complain if they feel like they aren't getting their money's worth. The burden of proof is on Nuko--and that is the purpose of progress reports.

you still keep on MISSING THE WHOLE GODDAMN POINT. The """"PAYING"""" part, the whole goddamn point is so that the dev finishes. Not on any arbitrary amount time the fucking whiners decides to be "too slow"

reasonable expectations!? you want every single sketches to be shown to you just so that you are reassured just because you are impatient? more like unreasonable expectations. use common sense instead.

 

[Missmiles]

TBH do you even know if those who sent the toxic comments are paying subscribers? The toxic comments were in chinese. Do they even have a way to pay on ci-en?

People can type in chinese from anywhere in the world. Careful where you're going with that rabbit hole.

Not sure, but probably. China has a lot of electronic payment systems.

 

[monsterartisan]

People can type in chinese from anywhere in the world. Careful where you're going with that rabbit hole.

Not sure, but probably. China has a lot of electronic payment systems.

Ci-en has removed a lot of payment processors. Meaning most of the support outside japan can only be from people who found a work around.

 

[monsterartisan]

Stop excusing whiny and rude behavior just because you ASSUMED they are paying .

Fine you can ask properly on updates about the game or expected date of release. But there is absolutely no excuse for trash and entitled behavior accusing developers with milking or laziness without basis. Especially these people don't even have the context of how game development work. or even drawing art.

 

[Missmiles]

Ci-en has removed a lot of payment processors. Meaning most of the support outside japan can only be from people who found a work around.

I'm sure those who play porn games in China are already masters of finding workarounds.

I think only supporters who paid can post comments. Maybe make a free account yourself and try it?

 

[monsterartisan]

I'm sure those who play porn games in China are already masters of finding workarounds.

I think only supporters who paid can post comments. Maybe make a free account yourself and try it?

No, anybody can post comments on Ci-en it has always been that way. There is also a lot of chinese pirates which use AI for TL's. Nuko even tweeted about chinese pirates re-selling for the TL'ed pirated version of the demos. I'm not saying all the chinese commenters in the ci-en comments are pirates but it is possible some of them are.

 

[Missmiles]

No, anybody can post comments on Ci-en. There is also a lot of chinese pirates which use AI for TL's. Nuko even tweeted about chinese pirates asking for money for the TL'ed pirated version of the demos. I'm not saying all the chinese commenters in the ci-en comments are pirates but it is possible.

Alrighty, I'm stopping this line of discussion right here. Pirates certainly exist, but they can come from anywhere.

And typing in chinese is not exclusive to China.

Let's stop now before we violate the rules.

Stop excusing whiny and rude behavior just because you ASSUMED they are paying .

Fine you can ask properly on updates about the game or expected date of release. But there is absolutely no excuse for trash and entitled behavior accusing developers with milking or laziness without basis. Especially these people don't even have the context of how game development work. or even drawing art.

Look, I agreed with you back in my FIRST reply that those comments were somewhat rude.

I'm just saying, they have a RIGHT to complain.

 

[monsterartisan]

Alrighty, I'm stopping this line of discussion right here. Pirates certainly exist, but they can come from anywhere.

And typing in chinese is not exclusive to China.

Let's stop now before we violate the rules.



Look, I agreed with you back in my FIRST reply that those comments were somewhat rude.

I'm just saying, they have a RIGHT to complain.

I never insinuated a country name. All I know is that it is written in chinese. Both the rude comments and the screenshot of nuko's tweet.

Look, I agreed with you back in my FIRST reply that those comments were somewhat rude.

I'm just saying, they have a RIGHT to complain.

The screenshots from Ci-en weren't even proper complaints. To say they have the right to do all that is just wrong. Sure, if they have voiced their concerns properly like an adult. Why not? Complaints just seem like pointless on things people have no context about.