VN Ren'Py Turning the Page [v0.31.0] [Azienda]

[Walter Victor]

The real split here is between people who are dispassionate enough to be able to critique the flaws in the story objectively and those who are so invested in it they can only sing it's praises.

Honestly, I've probably triggered those people again just by typing this.

What do you expect? You just praised everyone who agrees with you, while disparaging everyone who has a different outlook.

Nice. Very empathetic of you.

People have looked at the game in different ways, and have different points of view. A lot of them, while utterly divergent, are still legitimate. Others just saw what they wanted too see, and are either ecstatic or chagrined.

It is not bad writing or stupid if a game does not go in the way one expected. As I just wrote, people see things and interpret what they see differently.

There is no one here who has been appointed the arbiter of what is good or bad writing, or how to think (or write) about a game.

 

[mzer0]

What do you expect? You just praised everyone who agrees with you

Actually, I'm criticizing the people who won't let me disagree without turning into little babies about it.

It is not bad writing or stupid if a game does not go in the way one expected.

Mischaracterization numero dos.

Do you really think people dislike this ending just because it went against their expectations? Because they were surprised? If you read what people have been saying over the past few pages and that's all you managed to take away, then you either lack reading comprehension, or you're arguing in bad faith. I can't help you in either case.

But now, let's move on to the real reason why I'm even bothering to respond to you...

There is no one here who has been appointed the arbiter of what is good or bad writing

False.

Everyone who has invested anything into a story (whether that be time, money, or both) automatically becomes an 'arbiter' of whether or not that story was well-written.

That means that every single person in this thread who's been following this game for the past 2 years, either begging for a hero every month or supporting it on patreon, is completely entitled to call the writing shit or Shakespeare as they see it. It's their right.

Some choose to exercise that right, others don't. The problem that some of you appear to be having is that there are people exercising in it in a way you don't approve of.

Thank god we don't need your approval.

 

[JevilVerum]

I love when someone is able to write a pile of crap in a neat and tidy way that almost ends up seeming to make sense.

 

[mzer0]

I love when someone is able to write a pile of crap in a neat and tidy way that almost ends up seeming to make sense.

Well, I do it for a living so...

 

[Walter Victor]

Actually, I'm criticizing the people who won't let me disagree without turning into little babies about it.

Wrong! This is what you actually wrote.

The real split here is between people who are dispassionate enough to be able to critique the flaws in the story objectively and those who are so invested in it they can only sing it's praises.

You can disagree all you want, but people might look more favorably upon your critiques if you didn't disparage everyone who posts something in disagreement with your opinions. People who disagree with you are not necessarily "little babies".

Mischaracterization numero dos.

Do you really think people dislike this ending just because it went against their expectations? Because they were surprised? If you read what people have been saying over the past few pages and that's all you managed to take away, then you either lack reading comprehension, or you're arguing in bad faith. I can't help you in either case.

But now, let's move on to the real reason why I'm even bothering to respond to you...

I don't care why people disliked this ending. They have their reasons, I only mentioned one of them.

False.

Everyone who has invested anything into a story (whether that be time, money, or both) automatically becomes an 'arbiter' of whether or not that story was well-written.

That means that every single person in this thread who's been following this game for the past 2 years, either begging for a hero every month or supporting it on patreon, is completely entitled to call the writing shit or Shakespeare as they see it. It's their right.

Some choose to exercise that right, others don't. The problem that some of you appear to be having is that there are people exercising in it in a way you don't approve of.

Thank god we don't need your approval.

I'm not here give or withdraw approval. I'm here (as on any other game thread) to learn about the game. What I write here will not affect what people think about this game in any way, shape or form.

As for everyone being an 'arbiter'... what a laugh. An 'arbiter' has the power to decide the truth of a matter. That's what an arbiter does, by definition. There is no 'truth' here, only subjective opinion.

Everybody here has the right to express their opinion. That's what this forum is for. Criticism is fine. As one reads the back and forth between sides of an argument, one can get a sense of the issue and perhaps form one's own opinion.

But, you are acting like you are the world's foremost authority on this game, which I hardly believe is the case.

 

[JagOvv SmearOvv]

then you either lack reading comprehension, or you're arguing in bad faith. I can't help you in either case.

Breadtuber spotted

 

[Fyo]

I do like this game and enjoyed the ending, but I think the critique that it's unrealistic for Zack, a psychopathic manipulator, to settle down into a happy family man, is fair. He doesn't seem the type to me.

 

[zadtier396]

so can someone spoil me?

I stopped way back when sophie was still going to the gym with zach and the most she did was suck on his dick...
what has happened since then?
- amy and sophie teamup yet? any amy specific ntr for felix?
- noah/jonah(?) get cucked with danielle yet? by who?
- sophie sph moments and chastity to felix yet?
- what are the most depraved things sophie has done so far?
- rate her corrupted form vs normal out of 10.
- what's the ending and has felix found out? is he enjoying it? is sophie secret ntr stuff? (semen in his food, kiss with unwashed lips, etc. any wedding ring/portrait/special places desecration ntr moments done by sophie yet? (own her own accord or ordered to?)

felix pov like? (got bored trying to replay the whole thing over to reach sophie progression).
- rate out of 10. mystery ntr done well or just boring slog?

Thanks if anyone responds well. <3

 

[hui13594]

- what are the most depraved things sophie has done so far?
- rate her corrupted form vs normal out of 10.

-She ended up in happy relationship with a sociopath, this is the biggest depraved thing she's done, concidering most of the late game scenes were boring by H and NTR story standarts.
-It's hard to call her corrupted at this ending tbh, she always was just a hypocrite bitch.

 

[subaru_dono]

-She ended up in happy relationship with a sociopath, this is the biggest depraved thing she's done, concidering most of the late game scenes were boring by H and NTR story standarts.
-It's hard to call her corrupted at this ending tbh, she always was just a hypocrite bitch.

We only have her and Felix's perspectives to go by. Readers could see her as an unreliable narrator, discounting her version of events as distorted, idealistic, and largely false. I don't this was the author's intent, but it would be interesting if the writing included clear incongruities to better demonstrate it. We just have Zach's sadistic messages to Felix to demonstrate Zach is still an awful person, a far cry from the ideal father and husband Sophie's ending depicts him as.

 

[kizaruxd]

I expected a shitty ending but not this shitty

 

[NTR Sommelier]

To those who hated this ending, let me ask you: If we were given a Zack's POV showing that he is, in fact, falling in love with Sophie as much as she is falling for him, would you be satisfied, or, do you think that given his role as the antagonist in a NTR story he must remain a heartless womanizer because that is what he was depicted at the beginning?

 

[tata19]

To those who hated this ending, let me ask you: If we were given a Zack's POV showing that he is, in fact, falling in love with Sophie as much as she is falling for him, would you be satisfied, or, do you think that given his role as the antagonist in a NTR story he must remain a heartless womanizer because that is what he was depicted at the beginning?

I think there are signs that he falls in love with Sophie although at first it wasn't his idea. At one point he stops seeing other girls, including Anny. I think the hunter was hunted in this ending

 

[wolfling11]

To those who hated this ending, let me ask you: If we were given a Zack's POV showing that he is, in fact, falling in love with Sophie as much as she is falling for him, would you be satisfied, or, do you think that given his role as the antagonist in a NTR story he must remain a heartless womanizer because that is what he was depicted at the beginning?

In no moment Zack showed signs of falling for her at every chance he goes to corrupt sophie even to the extent of Humiliating felix for some cheap thrills and even after getting a great life and kids he tormenting felix with those cheap dirty photos of his wife like some kinda Trophy so it just seem like "see i stole your wife and life" nothing more than that no love just a trophy he stole

 

[NTR Sommelier]

In no moment Zack showed signs of falling for her at every chance he goes to corrupt sophie even to the extent of Humiliating felix for some cheap thrills and even after getting a great life and kids he tormenting felix with those cheap dirty photos of his wife like some kinda Trophy so it just seem like "see i stole your wife and life" nothing more than that no love just a trophy he stole

Ok, but remember, our view of things is biased, because we have access to Felix and Sophie's thoughts but not Zack's. We can only infer to a certain extent what may be his "true thoughts/feelings". So any jugdment about Zack loving Sophie being unbelievable or not is merely subjective opinion, things like he humiliating Felix are of no consequence, because human beings are complicated and he might love Sophie while still being an immature asshole. That is why I propose this thought experiment, would you accept his love for Sophie as being genuine if you saw his POV, or are you adamant that is not possible?

 

[kizaruxd]

To those who hated this ending, let me ask you: If we were given a Zack's POV showing that he is, in fact, falling in love with Sophie as much as she is falling for him, would you be satisfied, or, do you think that given his role as the antagonist in a NTR story he must remain a heartless womanizer because that is what he was depicted at the beginning?

The worst thing for me is not that Zack fell in love (although I don't like it), what I really don't like about this game, not just the ending, is Felix's personality, for me it takes away any sense of reality from the story. This kind of netorare game where the protagonist is extremely stupid and doesn't notice any of the signs are very bad for me and signs of lazy writing because the author just needs to draw sex scenes and that's it "the MC is very innocent/stupid so it's okay for the woman to spend 90% of her time with another guy"

 

[NTR Sommelier]

The worst thing for me is not that Zack fell in love (although I don't like it), what I really don't like about this game, not just the ending, is Felix's personality, for me it takes away any sense of reality from the story. This kind of netorare game where the protagonist is extremely stupid and doesn't notice any of the signs are very bad for me and signs of lazy writing because the author just needs to draw sex scenes and that's it "the MC is very innocent/stupid so it's okay for the woman to spend 90% of her time with another guy"

Okay, regarding the issue of Felix's extreme naivete. I wonder if the story could have worked better if instead of a rational STEM guy, Felix was more of a humanities guy maybe teaching english literature or something, contrasting with the more cold and rational approach of Sophie. That way, you could depict Felix as this sort of hopeless romantic type of guy, the one that only sees the best in people and would never dream of such betrayal. That way, I believe, would help justify his "blindness".

 

[tata19]

The problem with Felix Nio is his innocence for me. When it wasn't we have the happy ending for him and Sophie. For me the problem with Felix is that he does not have any weapon to apply any type of force to the situations that arise. There is no way he can revoke the situation with Sophie, no matter how distant it might seem. I'm not saying that he has to get her back but if he weren't sexually null or had a little more charisma, the story could offer the possibility that Sophie opts for him even if it never happens but it would give him a little more intrigue, a relationship with Anny could even be considered. But the way it is presented to Felix, any of those cases are impossible.

 

[Jacity]

Well, I do it for a living so...

Actually, I'm criticizing the people who won't let me disagree without turning into little babies about it.



Mischaracterization numero dos.

Do you really think people dislike this ending just because it went against their expectations? Because they were surprised? If you read what people have been saying over the past few pages and that's all you managed to take away, then you either lack reading comprehension, or you're arguing in bad faith. I can't help you in either case.

But now, let's move on to the real reason why I'm even bothering to respond to you...



False.

Everyone who has invested anything into a story (whether that be time, money, or both) automatically becomes an 'arbiter' of whether or not that story was well-written.

That means that every single person in this thread who's been following this game for the past 2 years, either begging for a hero every month or supporting it on patreon, is completely entitled to call the writing shit or Shakespeare as they see it. It's their right.

Some choose to exercise that right, others don't. The problem that some of you appear to be having is that there are people exercising in it in a way you don't approve of.

Thank god we don't need your approval.

Wrong! This is what you actually wrote.

You can disagree all you want, but people might look more favorably upon your critiques if you didn't disparage everyone who posts something in disagreement with your opinions. People who disagree with you are not necessarily "little babies".

I don't care why people disliked this ending. They have their reasons, I only mentioned one of them.

I'm not here give or withdraw approval. I'm here (as on any other game thread) to learn about the game. What I write here will not affect what people think about this game in any way, shape or form.

As for everyone being an 'arbiter'... what a laugh. An 'arbiter' has the power to decide the truth of a matter. That's what an arbiter does, by definition. There is no 'truth' here, only subjective opinion.

Everybody here has the right to express their opinion. That's what this forum is for. Criticism is fine. As one reads the back and forth between sides of an argument, one can get a sense of the issue and perhaps form one's own opinion.

But, you are acting like you are the world's foremost authority on this game, which I hardly believe is the case.

I was walking my pervert the other day, contemplating life, the universe and everything. I was having a bad day considering my bad habits and the fact that most mornings there now were severe storms in my teacup. It was bad, like a tempest! Vested interest in an author’s works? What a concept! How exactly would that work? What is free speech exactly? What is an 'author'? Do they owe us? What is criticism? Feedback? Air? Life? Vs. stroking off in public? I think the answer lies in the ‘why’ of one’s position… At least... that’s where the value to others lies. The 'market' covers the rest. Just an opinion, mind you. If I had all the answers, you would be on your knees. Not trying to have all the answers, just opining. These forums are so amusing! Please forgive me. Sometimes, I forget that it’s not about what you think, it’s about how you feel! I guess I need to find my rock and crawl back under it. Thank You. Have a nice day.

 

[JagOvv SmearOvv]

F95zone: Come for the downloads, stay for the midwit punching bags