VN Ren'Py UFO [Ch.3 v0.6.7] [17MOONKEYS]

[Taylan13]

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That's bullshit "What the characters want" is A lie for the gullible, the characters don't exist and they literally do what your imagination, as an author, tells them to do.

Honestly, stop trying to say it softly or make excuses, the story goes where you want it and that's okay, you're the author, you don't have to justify yourself, there will be those who like it and those who don't.

Sorry if you feel that it's harsh but it's the reality, that thing about characters is nonsense, I work in a publishing house in my country and I have enough experience to know that that thing about characters is just part of "the romance of writing."

So yes, your story, your rules and whoever doesn't agree can go fuck themselves.

 

[17MOONKEYS]

That's bullshit "What the characters want" is A lie for the gullible, the characters don't exist and they literally do what your imagination, as an author, tells them to do.

Honestly, stop trying to say it softly or make excuses, the story goes where you want it and that's okay, you're the author, you don't have to justify yourself, there will be those who like it and those who don't.

Sorry if you feel that it's harsh but it's the reality, that thing about characters is nonsense, I work in a publishing house in my country and I have enough experience to know that that thing about characters is just part of "the romance of writing."

So yes, your story, your rules and whoever doesn't agree can go fuck themselves.

I disagree with you, you probably never wrote a story. Yes, I can turn the story where I want or relax and listen to the characters, getting into them like in a trance.

 

[lordstark1566]

I disagree with you, you probably never wrote a story. Yes, I can turn the story where I want or relax and listen to the characters, getting into them like in a trance.

That's bullshit "What the characters want" is A lie for the gullible, the characters don't exist and they literally do what your imagination, as an author, tells them to do.

Honestly, stop trying to say it softly or make excuses, the story goes where you want it and that's okay, you're the author, you don't have to justify yourself, there will be those who like it and those who don't.

Sorry if you feel that it's harsh but it's the reality, that thing about characters is nonsense, I work in a publishing house in my country and I have enough experience to know that that thing about characters is just part of "the romance of writing."

So yes, your story, your rules and whoever doesn't agree can go fuck themselves.

he's listening to the voices in his heads, they're the "characters" he speaks of

 

[MalLiz]

hahaha it's really hilarious, like I said that's part of the "romance of writing", do you really think someone is talking to you in your mind you should see a psychologist.

It's just your mind working, in the end nothing happens without you wanting it to happen in YOUR story.

Let me make a little clarification here, I really do think you can hear those voices you say, I've done it myself when I'm working but thinking rationally it's just my imagination working, it's impossible for your characters to talk to you unless I have a mental problem, and it's part of the job but to say that it's actually your characters telling you what to do... you're kidding yourself, so if it's just the romance of writing talking by saying that the characters tell you what to do, ultimately YOU DICTATE YOUR STORY.

P.S. You can quote whatever books you want, it's still a game of your mind, there's no way for something that doesn't exist to talk to you... and to be clear, my friend, I'm not throwing hate, it just bothers me that you lack character, hiding behind that nonsense of the characters... let's be clear, it's my story and what I think is best for it will happen, and I do like your game, I only differ in this opinion.

Yep... 17MOONKEYS was absolutely right about you: You've clearly never written a single story in your life. If you had, you would actually know that what you're saying is the pointless ravings of a creatively impotent dullard. I would add "no offence" but with the tone you are taking here... Mmyeah, I really do not think anyone here owes you any respect at this point. I suggest you try and do something creative at some point in your life before trying to critique someone else's creative work again.

If not, well, then your "criticism" is as useless as it is unwelcome I'm sorry to say. An uncreative person trying to critique art is like a person entirely without a sense of taste trying to critique a complex and intricate meal. And even the most bland and unoriginal story is, above all, a creative work of art. If you're unable to comprehend that simple fact, then what are you even doing here?

-Mal

 

[zarqupang]

but they do have a point your game but if the characters want to chime in i geuss your brain is taleing you something lol.

 

[Taylan13]

Yep... 17MOONKEYS was absolutely right about you: You've clearly never written a single story in your life. If you had, you would actually know that what you're saying is the pointless ravings of a creatively impotent dullard. I would add "no offence" but with the tone you are taking here... Mmyeah, I really do not think anyone here owes you any respect at this point. I suggest you try and do something creative at some point in your life before trying to critique someone else's creative work again.

If not, well, then your "criticism" is as useless as it is unwelcome I'm sorry to say. An uncreative person trying to critique art is like a person entirely without a sense of taste trying to critique a complex and intricate meal. And even the most bland and unoriginal story is, above all, a creative work of art. If you're unable to comprehend that simple fact, then what are you even doing here?

-Mal

Dude assuming I don't know what I'm talking about just because you think I've never written anything is pretty dumb. You don't even know who i am to begin with, you wouldn't have to, so assuming I've never created anything is arrogance and builds a nice strawman fallacy.

I've been in the publishing industry for 15 years and at least 70% of my income comes from my books, I ignored Moonkeys when he mentioned it because I didn't want to use it as a strong point in my argument, but it's annoying that you assume I don't know what I'm talking about just because you think I've never created anything.

But back to the point what I'm saying is real, if you want to accept it or not is your problem BUT let me explain it in a simpler way so you can understand me...

What moonkeys describes is a very common phenomenon among writers and creative artists. It is an intense form of creative immersion, where the imagination and subconscious mind of the writer take such an active role in the process that it can feel as if the characters have a life of their own.

But from a logical point of view we know that characters are mental constructs, therefore under our control. Yes, you can feel all you want that the story is told by the characters and it is legitimate, now using that argument as a justification for why the story takes one direction or another is what I criticize.

In essence the point is that he is very lukewarm in dealing with the fools who criticize his work, he should be more forceful.

P.S.: Just in case you try to use my poor writing to discredit my argument, I want to mention that I don't know English... well I know English but only self-taught when I was in the United States, I have never taken classes properly, so my writing is understandable at best.

 

[zarqupang]

look people every one has there thing so can we just not start fights there's enif of that all over and we don't need more in space with hot big titted weman. lol i my not be in to chicks with dicks but look's like alot of people are making them lol and it's just a game

 

[Taylan13]

Ivan told me to stop arguing and get drunk and high.

Hahaha calm down, I wasn't looking for a heated discussion about writing, I probably got off topic because of my tastes and thoughts on writing.

The essence and without getting into verbiage is: Don't be lukewarm, it's your game, your story, and you can dictate in which direction it goes or how you feel it develops best, and if some idiot doesn't like it, it's their problem, not yours, it doesn't deserve your attention.

 

[zarqupang]

that is true i have alway's said to other dev's it's there game and the people who donated to them did it because they saw something they liked but just because they gave money does not mean there can say how the dev does things.

 

[lordstark1566]

that is true i have alway's said to other dev's it's there game and the people who donated to them did it because they saw something they liked but just because they gave money does not mean there can say how the dev does things.

this is like paying a baker for a strawberry cake and midway through after taking your money, he takes his trousers off and takes a big dump over it like a big middle finger to you for being foolish enough to pay him, give me a break

 

[MalLiz]

but they do have a point your game but if the characters want to chime in i geuss your brain is taleing you something lol.

look people every one has there thing so can we just not start fights there's enif of that all over and we don't need more in space with hot big titted weman. lol i my not be in to chicks with dicks but look's like alot of people are making them lol and it's just a game

that is true i have alway's said to other dev's it's there game and the people who donated to them did it because they saw something they liked but just because they gave money does not mean there can say how the dev does things.

i don't know if you were being rude and really don't care not. if you were then still not your game thnks for your input and sorry you feel that way. troll

You might want to consider using the reply function in the future to make it clearer who you're responding to. As it stands, your last few posts are a bit, eh, you know... Unclear, basically. Food for thought anyway.

-Mal

 

[BorsDeGanis]

That's bullshit "What the characters want" is A lie for the gullible, the characters don't exist and they literally do what your imagination, as an author, tells them to do.

Honestly, stop trying to say it softly or make excuses, the story goes where you want it and that's okay, you're the author, you don't have to justify yourself, there will be those who like it and those who don't.

Sorry if you feel that it's harsh but it's the reality, that thing about characters is nonsense, I work in a publishing house in my country and I have enough experience to know that that thing about characters is just part of "the romance of writing."

So yes, your story, your rules and whoever doesn't agree can go fuck themselves.

There is no 'right way' to write. People may not like what you decide to do but that is your deal. Saying that the dev is saying bullshit because they write in this manner is so not how universities teach students to write in 2024. They try to develop the way you see fit into a more refined version of how you like to write personally. That's the point of workshops. I've had many published professors teach me while at uni and none of them would try to dictate a perspective like that onto their students. It's a totally green thing to do.

Also, you literally say at the end of your post, "So yes, your story, your rules and whoever doesn't agree can go fuck themselves", so aren't you telling thyself to go fuck... thyself?

 

[MalLiz]

There is no 'right way' to write. People may not like what you decide to do but that is your deal. Saying that the dev is saying bullshit because they write in this manner is so not how universities teach students to write in 2024. They try to develop the way you see fit into a more refined version of how you like to write personally. That's the point of workshops. I've had many published professors teach me while at uni and none of them would try to dictate a perspective like that onto their students. It's a totally green thing to do.

Also, you literally say at the end of your post, "So yes, your story, your rules and whoever doesn't agree can go fuck themselves", so aren't you telling thyself to go fuck... thyself?

Don't bother, my man. You can't teach creativity, and it's pretty clear that other guy is as creatively impotent as they come. You're essentially trying to describe a sunrise to a blind man right now.

-Mal

 

[Taylan13]

There is no 'right way' to write. People may not like what you decide to do but that is your deal. Saying that the dev is saying bullshit because they write in this manner is so not how universities teach students to write in 2024. They try to develop the way you see fit into a more refined version of how you like to write personally. That's the point of workshops. I've had many published professors teach me while at uni and none of them would try to dictate a perspective like that onto their students. It's a totally green thing to do.

Also, you literally say at the end of your post, "So yes, your story, your rules and whoever doesn't agree can go fuck themselves", so aren't you telling thyself to go fuck... thyself?

Don't bother, my man. You can't teach creativity, and it's pretty clear that other guy is as creatively impotent as they come. You're essentially trying to describe a sunrise to a blind man right now.

-Mal

It's not that I can't argue against you two, it's just that I'm tired of it, you're diverting the point to where you want, yes, I'm not criticizing the creativity, the creative process or even the story.

I'm not saying how the developer should do things either, I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to use such a weak argument to justify something that simply shouldn't be justified.

By the way, yes, if you want to see it that way, I'm telling myself to fuck off. Of course, I don't know why I expected you to understand... here's another chance, at what point am I criticizing the story or even the game itself?

Yes, it's a rhetorical question, no need to answer...

In the end, the person it was addressed to is simply reading and ignoring this, so let's end the topic... emm, have a nice day.

 

[17MOONKEYS]

It's not that I can't argue against you two, it's just that I'm tired of it, you're diverting the point to where you want, yes, I'm not criticizing the creativity, the creative process or even the story.

I'm not saying how the developer should do things either, I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to use such a weak argument to justify something that simply shouldn't be justified.

By the way, yes, if you want to see it that way, I'm telling myself to fuck off. Of course, I don't know why I expected you to understand... here's another chance, at what point am I criticizing the story or even the game itself?

Yes, it's a rhetorical question, no need to answer...

In the end, the person it was addressed to is simply reading and ignoring this, so let's end the topic... emm, have a nice day.

 

[17MOONKEYS]

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[BorsDeGanis]

It's not that I can't argue against you two, it's just that I'm tired of it, you're diverting the point to where you want, yes, I'm not criticizing the creativity, the creative process or even the story.

I'm not saying how the developer should do things either, I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to use such a weak argument to justify something that simply shouldn't be justified.

By the way, yes, if you want to see it that way, I'm telling myself to fuck off. Of course, I don't know why I expected you to understand... here's another chance, at what point am I criticizing the story or even the game itself?

Yes, it's a rhetorical question, no need to answer...

In the end, the person it was addressed to is simply reading and ignoring this, so let's end the topic... emm, have a nice day.

Well hey, unlike the other poster, I'm not trying to chastise you or call you uncreative. Writing is as much a pursuit of wisdom as anything. In my experience the further along you are the less inclined you are to be sure of even your own perspective on the matter, but perhaps that's just specialization in general. I will say though that if you can I'd steer away from creative prescriptions in general unless someone asks for it. It just sort of comes across as bullying.

 

[zarqupang]

off topice right know but will be back to it. i have been sick for three weaks same problem and when i amsick i get to be a real asshole so sorry about that. malliz i still believe the dev has a right to make the game there way and that donaters should not tell them how to make there game. i also don't know what baker people go to where you give them money with out you haveing the product in hand. but i believe you have the right to give some feed back to them on what you would like to see if there asking. p.s not us to the reply are other stuff sorry

 

[Taylr]

I seldom comment online, for it us usually akin to spitting over the gunwale on the windward side of the boat. However, I felt I should, regarding the author's comment that he let his characters steer the story. The onslaught of derision that followed wasn't a surprise to me, for those who have never written anything worthwhile have no concept of what takes place when a person sits down to create characters and a story. Any writer worth his/her salt experiences a time when the characters seem to be directing him/her, some in a more pronounced way than others. There is nothing we can do to prevent it, if we are truly invested in our characters and our stories. Does a story change as it progresses? Very often it does and being flexible can lead one to a satisfactory outcome. A writer has to trust his/her instincts and disregard the criticism. As Benjamin Franklin is purported to have said; 'If everyone is thinking the same, then no one is thinking.'

 

[17MOONKEYS]

I seldom comment online, for it us usually akin to spitting over the gunwale on the windward side of the boat. However, I felt I should, regarding the author's comment that he let his characters steer the story. The onslaught of derision that followed wasn't a surprise to me, for those who have never written anything worthwhile have no concept of what takes place when a person sits down to create characters and a story. Any writer worth his/her salt experiences a time when the characters seem to be directing him/her, some in a more pronounced way than others. There is nothing we can do to prevent it, if we are truly invested in our characters and our stories. Does a story change as it progresses? Very often it does and being flexible can lead one to a satisfactory outcome. A writer has to trust his/her instincts and disregard the criticism. As Benjamin Franklin is purported to have said; 'If everyone is thinking the same, then no one is thinking.'

Exactly!