Avaron1974
Resident Lesbian
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I'm down for it.
The games I were testing for have been completed now so my annoying bug reporting has been lonely.
- Thread starter ERANFER
- Start date
The games I were testing for have been completed now so my annoying bug reporting has been lonely.
Great! I'll contact you in a week or two for the Beta Test. I just need to polish this up a bit more before I drop it to my proofreader
JJJ84
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Looking at the pic again, you're right I will admit the muscles shapes look more original, with different muscles shapes looking more realistic.Hmmm... I kinda understand your concerns here
Whereas, the intensity I do think the default HS2 muscle is better.
So taking the best of 2 worlds (shapes of mods + intensity of original HS2) I would say is the best.
Sure, I'd love to.
Let me know (perhaps through DM) when you're ready and I can give you the feedback after taking the beta for a spin.
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Demoness_Kiss
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I had to look it up on patreon the pictures as i somehow am having problems with the website(and a couple of others, internet problems? likely but not the reason i'm posting so let's move on and sorry i brought it up).
I think you're failing most of the characters MC know looks like a K-popstar who went through too many facial plastic surgeries, don't get me started on Della or whoever is posing with a phone to her own ear: from a good hairstyle, to a fur-helmet(can't see ears, nor forehead,and it also covers up her eyebrows, so it's either a hat or a helmet) then gave her an edgy "i don't give up, just die for me you worthless filth"-vibe, basically removing what little(due to HS1 having very little to offer in mods/style-choices) of unique-ness her character had. I read about some plot/personality-changes may/will come with the graphical change, and if i can judge a book from its cover, i feel like a rain of bad(for me, as it's my subjective opinion and people may or will disagree) news is just beginning.
Will i follow the project? Already am
Will i hope for the best for this project? Already am
Am i pleased so far with the changes? Not really
Should you focus on my opinion alone? HELL NO! It's your game, your creation, do what it feels good/right for you, but if my opinion matters to you, well i already expressed my opinions and they're not exactly positive.
Well, I'm not sure what/who exactly that you mean by "K-popstar who went through too many facial plastic surgeries" tbh
So far, all the characters that I've shown to the public are good enough for my taste. There's no weird faces, most are pretty much good looking characters.As for Della, like I said in my previous post on Patreon, I do managed to make her 85% similar to her HS1 version. But at some point I realize that her looks isn't really good enough to pull the story that I've planned for her in this remake. This current version of Della is so far the one that suit her character the most. And Della is still Della. Personality wise, she still clingy like she used to. What I did is mostly make her more "Mature" visually compared to her HS1 version.
As for her hair, I choose this one specifically because of it's flexibility. With this hair, I could change her hairstyle depends on what kind of scene that she's in while also still keeping that looks of her. So yeah, I don't really see any problem here about how her hair looks. Besides, what's different from her HS1 hairstyle is only the bangs/front part of her hair, the rest is pretty much the same as her HS1 hair. Here's some example of what I could do with this hair:
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Demoness_Kiss
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1- So you never thought "i could slice ham with MC's jaw" ? How thin/unnatural he looks? i can understand because i used HS2-creator, male characters are tough to make, but in this case(at least last time i used the program) the face is a matter of sliding bars left and right to change the size of a body-part.1- Well, I'm not sure what/who exactly that you mean by "K-popstar who went through too many facial plastic surgeries" tbh
2- As for Della, like I said in my previous post on Patreon, I do managed to make her 85% similar to her HS1 version. But at some point I realize that her looks isn't really good enough to pull the story that I've planned for her in this remake. This current version of Della is so far the one that suit her character the most. And Della is still Della. Personality wise, she still clingy like she used to. What I did is mostly make her more "Mature" visually compared to her HS1 version.
3- As for her hair, I choose this one specifically because of it's flexibility. With this hair, I could change her hairstyle depends on what kind of scene that she's in while also still keeping that looks of her. So yeah, I don't really see any problem here about how her hair looks. Besides, what's different from her HS1 hairstyle is only the bangs/front part of her hair, the rest is pretty much the same as her HS1 hair. Here's some example of what I could do with this hair:
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This is MC's face, and he looks like he has 0% body fat, which is pretty much death(i triple checked this fact), he looks like he is trying to pull-off a gigachad-face. He looks unnaturally perfect, , that perfection that looks fake/artificial/man-made and. I won't point out about hair or eyes colours, i just don't care for them, give them ice-coloured eyes, and blue-ish black hair, the forehead is massive tho, it's like it covers 40% of his head, and the hairline doesn't help with that and the skin looks like tight leather(like leggings if they were made out of leather). I'm not asking or demanding for a denny-devito like character, hell no, but he looks like he has nothing going on aside spending money in plastic surgeries.
2- yeah i read that, and i'm concerned, i'm a pessimist, when i read those type of sentences i think "oh god, this is exactly what [name of a developer i used to like] did before ruining his own game", sorry but like i wrote for three thread-pages i got disappointed so much and so often that a negative prediction is my first thought. Of course we'll see how things go, but like i said: i feel i'm not going to like what i'm going to see because the original game in its 2 versions was already good plot-wise, i recall a MC son of a mafia-boss, his childhood friend and basically girlfriend being told to infiltrate a school for rich&influential people, while pretending to be siblings, i can see lots of moderately(believe me, for the f95's standards moderately=masterpiece) funny situations and misunderstandings between both MC and Della but also between MC+Della and their future acquaintances/friends, the "we must hide our relationship while befriending these guys but while also developing our relationship", i've absolutely no idea of your plans about the plot and why changing Della's aesthetic is somehow relevant to the plot, i'm concerned because your previous plot is already good, and i live by the old saying of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", so now seeing/reading about how you want change something good, i can't help being concerned and predict the worst case scenario.
3- yeah, but you sacrificed the default-uniqueness of her, and people don't really care about that stuff as long as she looks good...so that's not a winning argument for either of us: if she looks good, people won't care (i will but it shouldn't matter too much), if she looks bad, people will care and complain(or straight up insult it). Personally the only decent hairstyle is the last one, and i can name 4-5 characters from other VNs who have a version of the previous 4(screenshots) hairstyles. You see how adaptable/eclectic it is which is a good idea on a pragmatic level, but i see how everyone uses it for that same reason, but paying the price of "every character looks the same as other characters from other VNs".
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Dude... With all due respect to you, I felt like this discussions of yours is never gonna end if I kept answering it so I will answer it one last time.
1. Did I know that MC's Jaw are sharp? Yes. Did I do that on purpose? Absolutely. Why? Well, because if you "used" to play around with HS2 character maker especially with the Male Character, you would know that the hardest part about making Male character in HS2 is on how to make it not look like a high schooler. For me, the goal was to make a MC that not only looks good enough, but also looks mature enough for his role in a Mafia story. And believe me, if making good male face in HS2 is a matter of "sliding bars left and right", you would see a lot of good looking HS2 MC already in this site.
2. Again, this is a Remake. And just like any remake, there will be changes. Technically most of the stuff that you've seen before with the HS1 version will be there. But it will be told in a different way. Some people might like it, some probably won't. But at least now, everything is planned. Unlike before, the story now has a plot in place. Every scene will serve a purpose. Will it be better than the HS1 version? Definitely. But again, don't put your expectation too high. Why? Because I'm no DPC and I'm still learning new stuff everyday. So yeah, bear with me with this journey.
3. And yes, what do you expect? It's a public hair mods and everyone can use it. I mean, dude! I'm not a triple A Game Dev Studio for god sake
And it's a normal thing in the AVN industry. I've told you dude, my skills are not there yet. It will take time for me to be able to make my own hair mod for my HS2 characters lol xD. And hair commissions isn't cheap either. People charge you 50+ euro for one hair and it's only yours for a month before it released to public.Small updates enable players to play the game at their own cadence. Some will download every update, play it, and provide their opinions, others will only check in once every year. Only a short release cycle enables both these types of community members, while doing nothing to hurt the latter group.
Because they randomly stumbled into product-market-fit back in the early days when the market was much less competitive. What do you think about all those devs that spent years working on something and released it only for nobody to play it?
Ironically this is exactly what I'm talking about. The problem here is that Eranfer has been working in isolation for a long time, which you recommend, rather than iterating quickly and constantly engaging with community feedback.
Every dev can do this, because the release cadence and the amount of content are two completely separate things. A game getting an update every 2 weeks should be expected to have the same amount of content in 6 months as a game that only has one release every 6 months. This means that short cycles are not significantly more work than long cycles.
People judge based on the expectations they have. If you were to release something you have worked on for a few weeks, clearly state that it was just a few weeks of work and that you are looking for feedback before investing significant time into pursuing this direction, then i think that people will not judge particularly harshly. In the worst case people won't like what you've worked on for a few weeks and you can quickly adjust course.
You can even just release things/ask feedback on something you've only worked on for a few hours. Simply say "Hey guys, i've been thinking about this new girl i want in the game, she's supposed to be really outgoing and assertive. Here are some designs i was playing with [Shows three different character designs]. Do you like that kind of character? Which design would you prefer? Would you make any changes?" and you'll know whether this is a good idea a day later, long before you've spent 6 months writing her.
I can imagine, Its a classic problem with long cycle times, as you invest more time into a release the pressure for the release to go well increases, which leads to delaying the release to "make it perfect", which in turn again increases the pressure. The worst case scenario on things like this can be seen in recent failures like Concord, Snow White, and Dragon Age the Veilguard, which spent years working behind closed doors only to find out that the market was very different from what they had imagined. Then again, there are also some projects that did this and hit the mark. Sometimes you're just lucky, there is only one way to find out.
Shortening the release cycle does not mean rushing content, it just means releasing what you have more often instead of keeping it hidden away. As I stated above, a dev releasing once every 2 weeks and a dev releasing once every 6 months should be expected to have roughly the same amount of content in their game after a year.
I do think that the point you're making about feedback pulling the dev back and forth constantly is fair, but there is a difference between collecting feedback and letting a few loud people design your game for you. The information someone like Eranfer needs is not just about gameplay and story, its also about things like whether particular types of content are going to improve or hurt the shareability of the game on social media, or what the conversion rate of players to contributors is.
JJJ84
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What you're not seeing is that while on concept the whole "roughly same amount of content" may sound good in theory, when devs actually try to apply it, what you're proposing of 2 weeks releases is a lot harder than it looks.
At first, the devs do release every 2 weeks and do seem to work fine. But over time, the whole schedule just becomes an insane pressure to them.
I know of two other devs who started off releasing almost every 2 weeks as you suggested, but both of them just suffered from the pressure of meeting that deadline (as well as suffering from burnouts of trying to see and react/change the game after what people say after every update).
The crowd pulling the devs back and forth just became the detriment to the devs' games overall, and due to the burnout, those two devs release intervals started to grow longer and longer, from 2 weeks, to a month, to 1.5 months even.
Even if the dev sticks to his guns/vision and don't let the crowd pull him left and right, only few devs I've seen manage to develop their game in pretty much clockwork schedule.
One example of the dev who does that is Talothral (whose games include Terminus Reach 1 & 2, Sorcerer, Tribulation of a Mage). He literally releases updates pretty much almost every 2 weeks as you're proposing.
But as I said in my initial post, Tal's case is one of those very rare exceptions and not the norm.
So this is why a lot of devs opt to release at their own pace, trying to release bigger updates, taking more time to focus more on quality rather than releasing updates quicker (when I say this, I don't mean Tal's games lack quality, I am actually a fan of his games, just citing him as one of very few devs who don't suffer burnouts with clockwork 2 week schedules).
And I dunno about you, but I'd rather Eranfer release his update at his own comfortable pace, rather than be bogged down by fortnightly release schedule which could possibly lead to a burnout.
Unless Eranfer is Talothral's clone, that is.
If that's the case, then sure. Your suggestion may work.
But otherwise? Nah, I'd say Eranfer should focus on quality and work at his own pace.
You do realize that you're contradicting yourself with this post?
In your reply to Eranfer above, you literally said "In the worst case people won't like what you've worked on for a few weeks and you can quickly adjust course."
This is literally exactly what happened with the 2 devs I stated above who tried your 2 weeks release schedule, but got pulled left and right.
The 2 devs just couldn't stick to their guns on their own vision and with each update they had to satisfy the whims/outcries/complaints of the people (and no, they weren't just "few" in their cases, lol). They "adjusted course" with each update, and the game suffered for it.
Classic case of devs letting his the crowd dictate their work.
And I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you further.
Eranfer, while he's not a completely new dev, basically restarted with this remake and still is on the very early days of his dev journey.
For devs like that, they really shouldn't be thinking too hard about such things as Patreon numbers/income & players to contributors conversion rate etc.
Doing so only leads to obsession regarding those stats which begins a downward spiral of being pulled left and right by crowd's whims in order to increase those stats/income (leading to detriment of game's overall quality).
Besides, most devs who develop AVNs that are on this website make these games as passion project & hobby (several having separate IRL job/s and making games in their spare time).
I don't remember the specific case for Eranfer (I think he mentioned it once before in a post somewhere but it was a long time ago), but even so I'd be willing to guess that it would be a challenge to become successful just from Patreon income alone (even though there may be few outliers lol).
Cause most devs don't find success (whether it's modium, decent, or great) financially until they take their games to Steam; and when game is in a state to be released on Steam, it's got substantial content already.
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Demoness_Kiss
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I agree with you the whole post, but i wanted to be nitpicky on this: Chasing people's opinion for money leads to something i call "becoming the Patreons' bitch", while figuring out the meaning of this definition is obvious to most people who spent a long time on this website, i want to explain it (you gave the explanation tho XD): a developer who craves numbers so much, that turns in his creation into a bitch: everyone with money can dispose (by using their opinions) of her as much as they like because the developer just gave up their own morals, for the money of people who don't care about the developer's nor the game's wellbeing, as long as they get what they want. Examples can be those devs like ICSTOR who for a long time relied on polls for deciding which character expanding, like which character gets new content, and god forbid if the patreons like only one character and the developer is too hungry or desperate for money to circle around the character (like excluding the characters who won the previous 2–3 polls)...which once again happened to ICSTOR, and in Milfy City, the character "Carolina", got a massive amount of content, putting in the background the main love-interests(MC's mom, and the teacher that MC was crushing for and rejected him)
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Avaron1974
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Damn near every time i've seen a dev chase the money by doing what people demand their games have become a cluster fuck of nonsense and the devs ended up hating what they were making, lost the passion, lost interest and gave up.
Hmmm how to say this... Just like what I've said, short update isn't entirely wrong. I mean, it has it's own benefits you know. And I'm not against it tbh. But what I don't like is the concept of doing short updates where Dev just release it first and fix it based on what people think or want. I as a Developer already have a concept on how I wants my game to look like you know. It's good to take feedback, but don't let other people drive your game. Gahh its hard to explain because I just woke up lol xD. But you get what I mean.
As a matter of fact, there's a huge possibility that I might gonna do a short yet more frequent updates if my first release isn't doing well. And when I said short, it's not like 100ish images kind of short lol. But more like 300-500ish images per month. And it has to stop in the story checkpoints instead of stopping abruptly in the middle of a scene if you get what I mean. Sorry still half awake when I write this xD
JJJ84
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Regardless of how many people whine/complain/bitch/get up in arms with pitchforks about it, you should never, ever let those voices dictate your game (unless it's something which is really minor, basically inconsequential to the game's grand scheme of things).
A dev's game is their own creation and "correcting/adjusting course" after every short update only comes to show that the dev him/herself isn't confident in his/her own vision.
That only spells trouble & path of ruin for the game's quality down the line.
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JJJ84
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The lighting really does make the characters look better (old version makes them look too pale).
With music, I honestly dunno how many music tracks you're gonna be using (and when using music tracks make sure you have it covered that you don't get claimed for copyright. It's an issue which I do see some devs struggle with/get into trouble with at times), but if you're using several different music tracks then my suggestion is to have a kinda like "Music Room"/"Jukebox" section in the main menu where you can play the music tracks in the main menu.
Player can press the button of a track (which has the original song name and track artist name), which plays, and there's also a stop button etc.
Of course, This is assuming you like playing around with several different music and will have like at least 10+ different music tracks for this game.
If you're only planning to have 2 (or 3) tracks for the entire game (several devs actually do this, but I tend to get really bored with games that do this, and tend to turn music off cause I'm tired of same old tracks playing all the time lol), then of course a "Music Room"/"Jukebox" section in the main menu obviously wouldn't be required and be obsolete lol.
But if you're planning to have mutiple music tracks, having "Music Room"/"Jukebox" section in the main menu music room/jukebox section early on in development might prove to be more beneficial rather than trying to implement it later.
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Yeah, that's why I'm happy with this new lighting setup
But at the same time, it's kinda annoying because I found how to do it when I've already make all of those images lol xD. It would've been better if I use this from the start As for the music, ngl I'm not confident
This first release is dark... and there's no way I'm gonna use Kevin Mcload tracks for it lol. I need to find a looping sounds like what you've heard in City of Broken Dreamers where it's so subtle but it fills the game with some tracks. And yes, MusicRoom/Jukebox is already planned for later when I start to use a lot of Music Tracks in my game so don't worry about it I'm thinking to add it into the phone feature
JJJ84
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Have it accessible through both the main menu and the phone (a lot of other devs do both as well).I'm thinking to add it into the phone feature
Good excuse to use this gif
Cause sometimes, when I get into the game, I do go into the Music Room/Jukebox section from main menu and listen to couple of tracks (not like I do it always, but I do it when I feel in the mood lol)
Okay I'll see what I can doHave it accessible through both the main menu and the phone (a lot of other devs do both as well).
View attachment 5206666
Good excuse to use this gif
Cause sometimes, when I get into the game, I do go into the Music Room/Jukebox section from main menu and listen to couple of tracks (not like I do it always, but I do it when I feel in the mood lol)
No promise though. 
pothb
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If those pics are of the MC, he now kinda looks like a side character, tbh.
May I know why?
I mean, if we compare him with my original HS1 MC it's definitely an improvement thoughYou don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
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