Ren'Py Completed Unknown [v1.0] [BondageBunny]

3.00 star(s) 1 Vote

BondageBunny

Love Lock
Game Developer
Apr 21, 2020
64
133
I assure you I am not, I just don't want to kink shame someone who is any shade of gay but from your comment you are kinda as @$$.

Thank you for the clarification it would almost make this playable now that there is a defined role and choices.

I am sorry you feel this way, I am also sorry if people are trash talking (or even if you just feel that way).
I am however not sorry for taking the time to either "steal" a game to decide if I am willing to purchase it or support it because demos don't always play the same as actual completed games. I will however make sure to never steal one of your games even on a demo basis so rest assured your voice was heard and obeyed at least once today.
That's very kind of you and I completely understand trying out a game before buying it. Unknown was my side project from Love Lock to help me prevent burnt out. It was just a small fun idea. That's why it's for a small price, which I surveyed on my server before committing to 3.99 to make sure it was fair. There's very little I could demo of it whereas Love Lock I can put together something without sharing half of the game. But thank you, if you're ever unsure about a game of mine you or anyone can always feel free to reach out to me and ask questions, sometimes I even stream content as I'm making it so people can get a feel of it. I certainly don't want anyone to spend money on something they didn't enjoy. Money is in short supply for the majority of people these days so I completely understand that...

But yes this goes for all my games: you can choose your pronouns, if you have breasts or a chest and if you have a penis or vagina. Gender, sex, and chest is even customizable while you play so you're not locked in. Whatever I write for a vagina I write the same similar experience for a penis. It is always equal.
 

circuitarity

Active Member
Jul 3, 2019
656
600
That's very kind of you and I completely understand trying out a game before buying it. Unknown was my side project from Love Lock to help me prevent burnt out. It was just a small fun idea. That's why it's for a small price, which I surveyed on my server before committing to 3.99 to make sure it was fair.

But yes this goes for all my games: you can choose your pronouns, if you have breasts or a chest and if you have a penis or vagina. Gender, sex, and chest is even customizable while you play so you're not locked in. Whatever I write for a vagina I write the same similar experience for a penis. It is always equal.
I "own/have purchased" thousands of games and have only completed a small percentage of them (brain injuries cause all sorts of side effects including forgetfulness of game state and general boredom when I get partway through) and I agree $3.99 is a fantastic price for a small game. Just based on this site (f95zone) I have purchased more than 100 games after "pirating" them from here since I joined in mid 2019.
I love customization in games and it sounds even better when you can change your mind partway through. However I don't find any appeal to "horror" type games due to personal reasons and therefore I won't be trying your games but I do wish you the best of luck in selling them.
 

Thisdudhere

New Member
Sep 5, 2019
10
99
Yes I do have psychological problems... I am in therapy... If you were to find my game through an un pirated method you would read on my bio that I have a mental health issue that's caused me to be on disability and I create games to cope and give my life purpose so that I don't kill myself as crude as that sounds, it's so that I have something in my life to hold on to. Working on things is the only source of joy I have right now. And while you may think the criticism isn't bad, I reported the comment that prompted me to say that. Lastly why the hell would I be looking for help on here? At what point did I ask for help? So far the critique has been my art looks gross, and my project is meant for teenagers... What would you take away from that? You know nothing about me or how damaging and demotivating this is. I don't think it's bad of me to want people to be respectful, to receive what I give out. Sure it's not logical and it won't happen, but it doesn't make me a bad person to wish people were better than this.

But yes... I'm being.. Overdramatic... heard that a fucking thousand times...

... When it comes to Love Lock I don't think I'm going to have the courage to post it online now... cause I don't have the stomach for it...
I'm not going to read a bio before I engage in conversation with every single person. That's not realistic. You asked for help implicitly, you asked for people to put on kid gloves when interacting with you and your work.

If the critique is that your art looks gross, you should possibly find WHY exactly those people find it gross and see if you can course correct. Your art is not set in stone. Your project being meant for teenagers as a critique could simply imply that they found the dialogue or premise a bit juvenile for their tastes. Which you could take subjectively, or possibly see it as a sign to work on the believability of your dialogue.

You are taking these as attacks on your person, on your character. The art you create is not you, not in totality. It is just a momentary expression of your capability of expression which can improve over time. How you respond to those criticisms are a reflection of your character. Don't emotionally blackmail people by implying you will harm yourself if it isn't received well. All you incentivize is people constantly lying to you and tiptoeing around you so they don't affect your fragile emotional state. Which is not fair to them, and also not fair to you.

In no way did I imply that you are a bad person, I believe that's you perceiving this conversation through a distorted lens. I believe you are a person with distorted expectations of reality. Which is likely why you are in therapy, that's not meant to be a dig or insult by the way, just an observation.

Your version of respect, is not my or anyone else's version of respect. I don't tiptoe around issues with people I respect, I speak plainly and forthright and I respect them enough as adults to be able to handle the reality that not every aspect of their work is perfect and pristine, especially not in a subjective sense.

I understand the feeling of not having your art received as you wish it to be, but that is not a fault of those consuming the art. It is the failure of the artist. As viscerally painful as they may be to hear, it makes it no less true. I am also an artist, so yes I understand perfectly well how demotivating and painful it can be to not have your work received well. The solution is to create more, not less. To channel those feelings of frustration and pain into your art.

You frame things in a manner where nothing is your fault, and everyone should conform to your views and whims and that's just not a reasonable expectation. People are not "bad" nor are they failing to be "better than this" by speaking their mind in a public forum.

You've heard you are being overdramatic a thousand times, and yet you detect no grain of truth in it? Is everyone around you just stupid and worthless? Or might they have a point? While majority does not always lead to the correct answer, many times it can point you in the right direction. Or at least it's a path of thought worth considering.

And your last parting shot, another emotional appeal meant to silence. An implicit threat that you will withhold your work because of mine, and others actions. Ask your therapist how that paints you, as an artist and individual. You should be releasing your work because it's what you enjoy making and creating, critical acclaim and the praise of others is just a side effect when you get good.

Regardless this has gone on too long, for the sake of the thread not devolving into a vitriolic back and forth I'm not going to be responding further. I've said my piece. I don't want to make the mods do any more work than they already have to do.

I sincerely wish you luck in future endeavors and hope you can see that criticisms should not be the end of your world, but rather a path laid before you to consistent improvement.

Peace.
 

enuff80

New Member
Sep 20, 2020
8
8
That's very kind of you and I completely understand trying out a game before buying it. Unknown was my side project from Love Lock to help me prevent burnt out. It was just a small fun idea. That's why it's for a small price, which I surveyed on my server before committing to 3.99 to make sure it was fair. There's very little I could demo of it whereas Love Lock I can put together something without sharing half of the game. But thank you, if you're ever unsure about a game of mine you or anyone can always feel free to reach out to me and ask questions, sometimes I even stream content as I'm making it so people can get a feel of it. I certainly don't want anyone to spend money on something they didn't enjoy. Money is in short supply for the majority of people these days so I completely understand that...

But yes this goes for all my games: you can choose your pronouns, if you have breasts or a chest and if you have a penis or vagina. Gender, sex, and chest is even customizable while you play so you're not locked in. Whatever I write for a vagina I write the same similar experience for a penis. It is always equal.
I'm excited for love lock and I can't wait to buy it!
 

Ethernetwork

Member
Oct 9, 2018
103
113
Oh Jesus fucking Christ. We're going to do this again? Stealing and trash talking? Is it not enough that you've pirated it you have to be fucking cruel about it to? Why do I even bother making games if it's going to make me feel suicidal in the end like this... This is not worth it...
If it makes you feel any better, I don't financially support you (sorry about that) but I enjoy your games.
If you like making games them make them, if you don't then don't.

A good portion of game development is making people happy, but sometimes you should just focus on yourself and your own vision. I'd say do what makes you happy and add what you enjoy adding.

I'm just some internet stranger though, and so is everyone else, so feel free to tune me or anyone else out.
Sometimes its even mentally healthier than listening....
 

BondageBunny

Love Lock
Game Developer
Apr 21, 2020
64
133
If it makes you feel any better, I don't financially support you (sorry about that) but I enjoy your games.
If you like making games them make them, if you don't then don't.

A good portion of game development is making people happy, but sometimes you should just focus on yourself and your own vision. I'd say do what makes you happy and add what you enjoy adding.

I'm just some internet stranger though, and so is everyone else, so feel free to tune me or anyone else out.
Sometimes its even mentally healthier than listening....
I probably shouldn't respond... but I am trying to figure this out and I can't... I was hoping you could explain it to me(and to be clear unlike previous when I was not asking for "help" with whatever that person was going on about... this time I am merely asking for a paradox to be solved. I wish I could convey tone to you so that you could hear right now that I am genuine...

so... if a good portion of game development is making people happy, but I'm also suppose to make it for myself?... then how does that work? My issue here is not with piracy, it's with the blatant attacks at my artists skills. The reviews that say my art is goofy looking or that this writer is shit. I don't want feedback plain and simple because it is for me... and I'm sharing it with others but they don't have to play it they don't have to buy it. It's there if they want it, and if they don't. Cool... but I'm... a person... I'm not a company... and like I understand that constructive criticism is part of what helps art grow but... back to.. making it for me.. if I just want to enjoy it then... ... I don't know if I'm explaining the confusion well or not but it's a bit like being tossed back and forth. I don't have a thick skin, I wish I did but I don't... and I never will. It's like how some people have learning disabilities or mobile disabilities, this is mine and while I'm not trying to make it overly personal here I just don't know how to navigate it going forward. Like, you all want me to share my work and I'd like to appease that... but then when I share it I'm making myself really vulnerable... I both agree and disagree with the "Not here to protect the devs feelings" or "reviewing a product" Cause it both is and it isn't... it's such a hard line or grey area that is extremely difficult to navigate... I wish I could some to some kind of agreement like, here it is but can we all just be nice or something I know that sounds stupid... but I just... I'm really confused.


If I could share some backstory on this as a person to explain why this is so confusing to me...I don't know how to spoiler things on this site.. but I do want to share the story...


I'm an animator by profession. I went to college for 3 years and got my first job in 2015. My hours started getting cut in favor of a new employee at the small company I was working at, eventually I had to quit cause I was spending money to work for them as they required me to have a subscription to adobe and when it all added up I was going in debt about 20 a month after rent, food and art programs.
I got a new job at an animation studio as a contractor. The apartment below me got bedbugs and doesn't care about it. I then got fired and accused of giving my coworker bedbugs despite many many efforts to exterminate. I wasn't able to get a job since. I started going in debt and then I tried to kill myself. I ended up in the hospital and they put me on welfare... from welfare I kept searching for a job and couldn't find one. I started to think I was a failed artist. Covid hit and my father was in the hospital dying. I ended up in the pyscward again for... another suicide attempt. At this point they put me on disability for my mental illness. I still tried to search for a job but to no avail. In this city I don't have the name brand college on my resume which is what others told me as they looked at my resume. I started making Love Lock to help ward off depression. I joined the renpy discord to get help with bugs. I saw people sharing their work, I thought. "Oh that's nice, this is a nice little community of people sharing" I wanted to join. I made a friend, the friend encouraged me to post it here. At the time I thought the site was too complicated and not pretty enough like how I can customize itch with a banner. I ended up making an itch demo with my friends encouraement. My friend at the time really enjoyed play testing my game and I thought, what the hell, if others like playing it too then why not share. I posted the demo after a year working on it. It got some really nasty feedback... and good feedback. A lot of people wanted updates I wanted to please them. I mean why not, they like it. But I didn't want to feel like I was being taken advantage of. In my mind I was like.. I worked hard to develop these skills and to create these things.... do I want to give that away for free? It feels like I'm not valuing myself... So I created a patreon as a compromise to feel validated in my skill but also to give everyone what they want. Fast forward about 2 years now? Love Lock is about 80% done... I've made Unknown while working on a few other titles and I published Unknown as above. Again Unknown started as a little fun side project just for me. A friend really liked it, I decided to share it, And here we are. I know not everyone is going to like everything.. I mean I don't.... but I guess me as a person I don't feel the need to tell people? Here you see it a lot, games that people don' like are called trash or average... And I mean... there's the whole grey zone too of freedom of speech... like they're allowed to give their opinion right? but also I didn't ask for it right? So that's... complicated and confusing to navigate too...

So... what does one do in this situation? How does one please everyone? I am putting a lot of thought into this, into quiting game dev into not putting myself out there for the sake of my own mental health but at the same time... what about everyone else... I don't want to disappoint people but then when I look at what takes place here... It feels impossible to please them to... Then there's the whole concept of why do I have to change to fit everyone elses wants, especially if I'm doing this for me?

I genuinely don't know how to navigate this.



Edit: Sorry I forgot something... >~<

There's another aspect to this too that's a bit hard to explain when it comes to piracy... Like... When it's here on f9zone or anywhere else I have no control. Control in a sense of I can't fix anything? I can't make anything better? Like it someone was to purchase unknown on itch.io and then decide that it just wasn't for them, or they didn't enjoy it or they really wished they didn't spend that money. I and 1. Apologize 2. Refund them 3. Delete any hateful comment but at least feel like I made it up to them... On here... I can't refund free. I can't do anything to make things better... I just feel bad. There's no way to ... I don't know if I'm explaining it right, it's likely a distortion that other normal people don't have but... I can't make amends with people.. all I can do is say I'm sorry I made a bad game... I... I don't know but... that's... part of this too... It's complicated to explain but it's lumped into all of this as well...
 
Last edited:

Joe Steel

Engaged Member
Jan 10, 2018
2,430
3,258
BondageBunny, I think that you might be placing too much emphasis on pleasing your audience, and definitely too much emphasis on paying attention to the braying of asses.

Almost no one makes money off of amateur games like the ones here. Devs generally make games for the same reason writers write and painters paint: because they like the task, regardless of reward. If this isn't your motive, then maybe you should reconsider making games. I personally liked this effort (Love Lock a bit less so because it was so much more intense), but it's not high enough on my list to make me drop another client to add you on Patreon. Others surely feel differently, both in a more positive direction and a more negative one. That's just how it goes. Be thankful you have talent and a unique style.

As far as heeding comments and reviews, and reacting to them personally, I can understand how a sensitive person would be shocked and feel a bit betrayed when people play a free game and then make nasty comments about it, its developer, etc. Those people are not trying to help make better games, they are trying to make themselves feel better by making you feel worse. That's the way some people just are. Ignore them; they are not here to help you, and lifespan spent considering their posts is lifespan wasted.

Pay attention only to those who are making concrete criticisms, about things you can actually affect, and which consider both positives and negatives. Those, and only those, comments are actually directed at you. The others are noise.

I'd note that there are far more writers than artisist in this amateur gaming business, and if you want some work as an artist, you might want to check with some of the devs here to see how one goes about snagging an art gig for one of these games.
 

Ethernetwork

Member
Oct 9, 2018
103
113
I probably shouldn't respond... but I am trying to figure this out and I can't... [...]
I don't want to go into detail about my personal life, but in game development and quite frankly any industry where you release a creative work out to the public, people will bash it, people are mean, people are rude, and that's just going to happen.

EDIT: It also REALLY doesn't help that F95Zone users will very clearly see something they don't want to download, download it, play it, and then complain that they did so on these forums for a while despite the fact that their main critisism is a core part of the game's design.

On the other hand people can be nice, offer constructive criticism and even validation if you're into that.

I think a major thing you should look into is finding why you're into game development, even with all the resources in the world you cannot please everyone, so half of the battle is choose who to please, and that's far easier when you can go with the routes or features that please you the most and are things you're interested in adding or changing.

Now to get a bit more specific; art. People are picky about art and everyone disagrees on it, especially here. Personally I find your art to be decent, not great or amazing, but decent and I would say its good. Others can shit talk it for days and describe all the reasons they hate it and unless you want to focus on something that a decent others don't really have a problem with its really not worth the effort to please them, in my opinion anyways. I'm weird with art though, so take that with a grain of salt, I used to read books all the time so images are just extra to me.

The writing was good and the art was great at providing a nice visual image, its why I liked the demo.

As for F95Zone as a whole, this site is filled with assholes. Don't worry too much about making people feel better after they shit on your game, they're mostly just venting and moving on, and they won't have spent a dollar.

If you're not into this for the money, then I cannot stress enough you should focus on what you like and enjoy, if you see a suggestion or a criticism that resonates with you; do it. If its easy to add and doesn't affect others; go for it. If you feel like the suggestion isn't your thing or if you don't want to do it, don't.

If you're into it for financial reasons, it changes the game entirely, and quite frankly it steals your soul and drowns out any creativity you've ever had... often times the financially beneficial option is directly opposite to the pleasing option.

TLDR; When releasing any creative work you need thick skin, its just a fact of life and we can't fix that. Focus on making your game a fun experience that you (and your friends?) enjoy playing, we'll enjoy it (some of us) too and you can check back here if you want, but it is and always was, completely optional.

Hope it goes without saying, I still really want to see you release your games.
 
Last edited:

Ethernetwork

Member
Oct 9, 2018
103
113
Just a small addition, if you think F95Zone is bad, people will absolutely crucify indie games on Steam.
Those are just the folks that actually paid for the game....

I don't want to say get thicker skin, its kind of a terrible solution, but at the same time its kind of what you need to do.
Mentally filter out the nonsenseical comments from the ones with actual critisism you actually care about.
 

Allan Perez

Newbie
Nov 2, 2018
43
12
really wish there were more cnc games. it was kinda hot to flirt with the creep like that but was a little disappointed it ended there hahaha, wanted more with that path
 
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circuitarity

Active Member
Jul 3, 2019
656
600
I probably shouldn't respond... but I am trying to figure this out and I can't... I was hoping you could explain it to me(and to be clear unlike previous when I was not asking for "help" with whatever that person was going on about... this time I am merely asking for a paradox to be solved. I wish I could convey tone to you so that you could hear right now that I am genuine...

so... if a good portion of game development is making people happy, but I'm also suppose to make it for myself?... then how does that work? My issue here is not with piracy, it's with the blatant attacks at my artists skills. The reviews that say my art is goofy looking or that this writer is shit. I don't want feedback plain and simple because it is for me... and I'm sharing it with others but they don't have to play it they don't have to buy it. It's there if they want it, and if they don't. Cool... but I'm... a person... I'm not a company... and like I understand that constructive criticism is part of what helps art grow but... back to.. making it for me.. if I just want to enjoy it then... ... I don't know if I'm explaining the confusion well or not but it's a bit like being tossed back and forth. I don't have a thick skin, I wish I did but I don't... and I never will. It's like how some people have learning disabilities or mobile disabilities, this is mine and while I'm not trying to make it overly personal here I just don't know how to navigate it going forward. Like, you all want me to share my work and I'd like to appease that... but then when I share it I'm making myself really vulnerable... I both agree and disagree with the "Not here to protect the devs feelings" or "reviewing a product" Cause it both is and it isn't... it's such a hard line or grey area that is extremely difficult to navigate... I wish I could some to some kind of agreement like, here it is but can we all just be nice or something I know that sounds stupid... but I just... I'm really confused.


If I could share some backstory on this as a person to explain why this is so confusing to me...I don't know how to spoiler things on this site.. but I do want to share the story...


I'm an animator by profession. I went to college for 3 years and got my first job in 2015. My hours started getting cut in favor of a new employee at the small company I was working at, eventually I had to quit cause I was spending money to work for them as they required me to have a subscription to adobe and when it all added up I was going in debt about 20 a month after rent, food and art programs.
I got a new job at an animation studio as a contractor. The apartment below me got bedbugs and doesn't care about it. I then got fired and accused of giving my coworker bedbugs despite many many efforts to exterminate. I wasn't able to get a job since. I started going in debt and then I tried to kill myself. I ended up in the hospital and they put me on welfare... from welfare I kept searching for a job and couldn't find one. I started to think I was a failed artist. Covid hit and my father was in the hospital dying. I ended up in the pyscward again for... another suicide attempt. At this point they put me on disability for my mental illness. I still tried to search for a job but to no avail. In this city I don't have the name brand college on my resume which is what others told me as they looked at my resume. I started making Love Lock to help ward off depression. I joined the renpy discord to get help with bugs. I saw people sharing their work, I thought. "Oh that's nice, this is a nice little community of people sharing" I wanted to join. I made a friend, the friend encouraged me to post it here. At the time I thought the site was too complicated and not pretty enough like how I can customize itch with a banner. I ended up making an itch demo with my friends encouraement. My friend at the time really enjoyed play testing my game and I thought, what the hell, if others like playing it too then why not share. I posted the demo after a year working on it. It got some really nasty feedback... and good feedback. A lot of people wanted updates I wanted to please them. I mean why not, they like it. But I didn't want to feel like I was being taken advantage of. In my mind I was like.. I worked hard to develop these skills and to create these things.... do I want to give that away for free? It feels like I'm not valuing myself... So I created a patreon as a compromise to feel validated in my skill but also to give everyone what they want. Fast forward about 2 years now? Love Lock is about 80% done... I've made Unknown while working on a few other titles and I published Unknown as above. Again Unknown started as a little fun side project just for me. A friend really liked it, I decided to share it, And here we are. I know not everyone is going to like everything.. I mean I don't.... but I guess me as a person I don't feel the need to tell people? Here you see it a lot, games that people don' like are called trash or average... And I mean... there's the whole grey zone too of freedom of speech... like they're allowed to give their opinion right? but also I didn't ask for it right? So that's... complicated and confusing to navigate too...

So... what does one do in this situation? How does one please everyone? I am putting a lot of thought into this, into quiting game dev into not putting myself out there for the sake of my own mental health but at the same time... what about everyone else... I don't want to disappoint people but then when I look at what takes place here... It feels impossible to please them to... Then there's the whole concept of why do I have to change to fit everyone elses wants, especially if I'm doing this for me?

I genuinely don't know how to navigate this.



Edit: Sorry I forgot something... >~<

There's another aspect to this too that's a bit hard to explain when it comes to piracy... Like... When it's here on f9zone or anywhere else I have no control. Control in a sense of I can't fix anything? I can't make anything better? Like it someone was to purchase unknown on itch.io and then decide that it just wasn't for them, or they didn't enjoy it or they really wished they didn't spend that money. I and 1. Apologize 2. Refund them 3. Delete any hateful comment but at least feel like I made it up to them... On here... I can't refund free. I can't do anything to make things better... I just feel bad. There's no way to ... I don't know if I'm explaining it right, it's likely a distortion that other normal people don't have but... I can't make amends with people.. all I can do is say I'm sorry I made a bad game... I... I don't know but... that's... part of this too... It's complicated to explain but it's lumped into all of this as well...
Couple of comments having briefly skimmed your post:
1) Do you feel a sense of accomplishment every time you complete a drawing/programming session? Do you feel a sense of joy when something works out whether it was intended or not? Ignore all comments while you consider these questions and take a mental picture or even actually record/photograph/video yourself at this moment to remember the joy you felt.

2) There are trolls everywhere, why does someone who doesn't like the art feel the need to tell you it looks weird or gross or your writing is crappy (sorry if no one has said this I just don't want to feed the trolls by actually reading the garbage they spew). A comment that criticizes without suggesting a fix deserves to be deleted and you have the right to request it by using the "! report" button at the bottom of each post so long as you can provide a fair reason such as a comment "This game is *$@#" as the complete comment deserves to be deleted, it is not helpful and trolls don't deserve respect.

3) Unfortunately being a troll doesn't prevent someone from also being a pirate, free is free and since there is no way to refund a fucked up brain because you can't give them back the "innocence" they lost the right to having by actively pirating a copy of your game. When someone makes an attempt here (on this site in general) to communicate how they think your game could be made better bear in mind there are literally 7 billion+ opinions on what a sexy exciting game is and no one can meet all the demands while still making a good game. Take care of your supporters and let the animals find food that feeds their soul instead of flinging poo at you.

4) Try to take all the useless criticism and ignore it, they are not trying to help and now that they realize you are human they will only try even harder or they will become more human themselves and start actively contributing to your work with attempted suggestions.
 
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3.00 star(s) 1 Vote