Collection VN Others Unity Completed VenusBlood HOLLOW International [v1.0.3 + Fandiscs] [Ninetail & Dual Tail]

[greenlittleman]

Those weird units from 10x key summons that have high growth and multiple tactical skills... Why can't I find these fucks on the recruiting menu? I wanna add some titles. Do they only show up after you unlock last 2 medals?

Those are special chars that aren't unlocked in any other way other than by using 10 keys of destiny. But you can "re-recruit" them to add titles to them after you hired them once. Almost none of them require the last three medals to recruit. In fact re-recruiting a character is a feature that's easy to miss but it's very helpful as it allows you to increase their stats if their loyalty is high and you can also give them better titles.

When you unlock a character with a draw from the key of destiny, it should immediately appear in the recruiting menu

Special hidden units don't appear in the recruiting menu until you actually get them with the keys. Some of them are better than 20 KoD chars because they have high growth.

 

[BlinkA1]

Special hidden units don't appear in the recruiting menu until you actually get them with the keys. Some of them are better than 20 KoD chars because they have high growth.

Hmm... Are you referring to the Guest Units which is only be acquired via key of destiny which is only available after you finish the Alioth scenario?

 

[desmosome]

Ok I found them... I had to dismiss them first for them to show up. I didn't find them when I had them recruited already which is weird since other units don't do that.

 

[HHLONG]

Those are special chars that aren't unlocked in any other way other than by using 10 keys of destiny. But you can "re-recruit" them to add titles to them after you hired them once. Almost none of them require the last three medals to recruit. In fact re-recruiting a character is a feature that's easy to miss but it's very helpful as it allows you to increase their stats if their loyalty is high and you can also give them better titles.


Special hidden units don't appear in the recruiting menu until you actually get them with the keys. Some of them are better than 20 KoD chars because they have high growth.

yup, like Loki he grow SS so when you put some nice rune on him, he get class Z

 

[Ghinan]

i have question. what's pros and cons for all altered heroine (not awakened version)?

 

[desmosome]

i have question. what's pros and cons for all altered heroine (not awakened version)?

I think most main heroines are much better in awakened form. The secondary girls like Liese have better altered forms that are much better. I keep Liese, Judecca, Ayame, and Celia all in altered form. Celias is debatable, she has 4 blank skills on altered form but gains all slay and her 4 skills that she gets are pretty strong offensively. Tetra... I missed her title, so I'm just not using her at all right now. Both her forms are very awkward, but maybe the titles can make her work in some fashion.

 

[ShinV]

i have question. what's pros and cons for all altered heroine (not awakened version)?

Do you really want the complete list? Well...

Altered units lose access to Force skills.
Most altered attackers switch their damage focus (area -> single, attack <-> burn, attack -> counter), while altered supporters tend to specialize in offensive utility.

Sylvia, Judecca, Ayame, and Liese are generally better Altered.
Elea, Tsubaki, Julia, Karvia, and Celias are viable either way.
Tetra is generally better in her base form.

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[desmosome]

Most of the altered main heroines are not strict upgrades. They are sometimes marginally better or worse, but fill different roles... The clincher is that they lose their tactical skills. The main girls all have really nice tactical skills so you really shouldn't alter them unless you know for sure you will never use their skills and need their altered form for some specific team.

Now the secondary girls don't have an awakened form. So in most cases, the altered forms are much stronger. Unless you specifically need the base form or really want their tactical skills, altered forms are preferable.

 

[ShinV]

Just a stray thought I had. It'd be nice if Atheism Mode gave Strat skills and the Wisdom stat alternate uses. Maybe change the Force gauge into something that boosts base stats as it's filled and have Strat Hinder/Barrier modify that boost or reduce enemy Force gain.

 

[desmosome]

The scenes for the extra heroine units on the law route doesn't really seem to fit the timeline. The writing often alludes to the fact that they had sex many times prior, but these units unlock at affect 4. You don't get any scenes with them by this point and even if you consider off screen romances, their relationship doesn't seem far enough along for the girls to accept him sexually (except Judecca who has an actual scene, and maybe Ayame cus she horny cat).

 

[greenlittleman]

Do you really want the complete list? Well...

Altered units lose access to Force skills.
Most altered attackers switch their damage focus (area -> single, attack <-> burn, attack -> counter), while altered supporters tend to specialize in offensive utility.

Sylvia, Judecca, Ayame, and Liese are generally better Altered.
Elea, Tsubaki, Julia, Karvia, and Celias are viable either way.
Tetra is generally better in her base form.

Spoiler: Details for all Commanders

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You're missing the fact that strategic skills are super useful on most characters. There's no lack of strong units late-game, be it surround null or even Fool's Lie 2 you can have them. But tactical skills, especially those that give big stat bonus or slay to a party, are almost exclusive to story units. So even if most of them still have useful skills overall after being Altered, for most of them their awakened forms are still preferable. I'd say that only Liese (because she's OP when Altered) and Judecca (because she's weak either way and her tactical skills are meh) are much better in their Altered form and everyone else is either worse or about the same.

The scenes for the extra heroine units on the law route doesn't really seem to fit the timeline. The writing often alludes to the fact that they had sex many times prior, but these units unlock at affect 4. You don't get any scenes with them by this point and even if you consider off screen romances, their relationship doesn't seem far enough along for the girls to accept him sexually (except Judecca who has an actual scene, and maybe Ayame cus she horny cat).

Yeah, I noticed this as well. In comparison, in the Chaos route, their unlocks follow the plotline. Too bad some are easily missable like Dragon Kitty.

 

[desmosome]

Lol man.. that most recent review. I skimmed through it before and didn't know what the hell they are so upset about. I just read it again while taking a dump and I still have a hard time making out the relevant review points in all the meandering tangents and overly detailed explanations of game mechanics.

 

[ShinV]

You're missing the fact that strategic skills are super useful on most characters.

Each unit was examined independently. I did not mention Force skills in my opinions (other than noting you lose them through Alteration) because there are very few units in the game whose Force skills are irreplaceable, and you really only need one or two Force-enabled units per division. Sure, it's not the best idea to Alter every unit, but most players won't. Flexibility is a tradeoff easily managed by diversity of divisions.

But tactical skills, especially those that give big stat bonus or slay to a party, are almost exclusive to story units. So even if most of them still have useful skills overall after being Altered, for most of them their awakened forms are still preferable.

With the addition of backer units, the most useful Force skills are no longer limited to Dark Lords and their direct subordinates. If we argue semantics, there are 10 units with Altered forms, and at least 14 units (Leon, Anora, Noel, two Sylvias, two Anoras, Julia, two Lieses, Tsubaki, Ayame, Elea, and Luseli) who never lose access to five Force skills each. This is before you take into account sub-commanders, unlockable units, and common units.

 

[desmosome]

Covering as much bases as you can with tactical skills seems like a good idea, especially on higher difficulties. Specifically, Sylvia's revive all divisions is so powerful that I would never alter her. A couple other units had revive all, like mini mad scientist, but you can never have too many.

I think altered forms of secondary heroines are quite stronger than the base forms in terms of raw output, so it can be worth it to lose tactical skills. The Dark Lords awakened forms rival the altered forms in power, so I see little reason to alter them unless there is something very specific you want to do.

 

[greenlittleman]

With the addition of backer units, the most useful Force skills are no longer limited to Dark Lords and their direct subordinates. If we argue semantics, there are 10 units with Altered forms, and at least 14 units (Leon, Anora, Noel, two Sylvias, two Anoras, Julia, two Lieses, Tsubaki, Ayame, Elea, and Luseli) who never lose access to five Force skills each. This is before you take into account sub-commanders, unlockable units, and common units.

The problem with this is that most force skills are trash, especially the ones from standard units. Slayer bonuses for your entire party can change everything as well as stat bonuses and revival. Late-game you can also stack multiple chars with strat support and make powerful force skills spammable. On Very Hard and Thanatos you don't have enough tactical skills for all of your usable divisions so it's something to keep in mind as well. Silvia in particular has the skill that revives all three divisions.

 

[desmosome]

How come I'm not seeing some of the key unlocks I'm qualified for? Like Youthful Loki and some others. I believe I've seen Hain once before when rerolling for some units back in my first run. But now, I'm not seeing these guys in both day and night. Since someone talked about a bug from recruiting all available units, I deliberately left out 2-3 fodder units in the pool.

 

[sanndan]

key of destiny

 

[Ghinan]

Do you really want the complete list? Well...

Altered units lose access to Force skills.
Most altered attackers switch their damage focus (area -> single, attack <-> burn, attack -> counter), while altered supporters tend to specialize in offensive utility.

Sylvia, Judecca, Ayame, and Liese are generally better Altered.
Elea, Tsubaki, Julia, Karvia, and Celias are viable either way.
Tetra is generally better in her base form.

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So.. not most heroine altered are best toh.. okey i noted it.
and to be honest, vergius is much strong than iris (goddess version). damn AoE 15k, wtf is that dude..

 

[Zethster]

How come I'm not seeing some of the key unlocks I'm qualified for? Like Youthful Loki and some others. I believe I've seen Hain once before when rerolling for some units back in my first run. But now, I'm not seeing these guys in both day and night. Since someone talked about a bug from recruiting all available units, I deliberately left out 2-3 fodder units in the pool.

Youthful Loki and Hain are drawn from the 10x pool, I believe both at the same time of day, I don't remember if it was night or day but I'm leaning towards night.
I have no idea what happens if you leave very few common units in a particular pool, but the "bug" just doesn't let you use the keys at all, so if you can use them then you are probably either unlucky or there's something else wrong.

 

[desmosome]

Well something is definitely wrong then. I've cleared normal chaos with the chaos choice on Aloith mission. Then I did very hard law choice on Alioth mission. Since I did Alioth mission on very hard, I should have unlocked a whole bunch. I only got Sheila, Theofrad, Leona, and Fana. Everything else doesn't show up. I left some units in the key pool, so I can do ike 3 pulls on day or night for 10x. I get the usual fodder and then it runs out before I get any of the unlocks.

In case it was a low% chance and I had to pull the unlocks before running out of normal units, I reloaded like 50 times and did my 4 pulls. It never shows up still.

I am using the UI mod if that somehow affects this thing....