ogapetape

Newbie
Mar 25, 2020
87
216
Based on their progress to get to .6, I began supporting them on Patreon as they began prepping for .7. I wasn't thrilled about orc love (tiefling love perhaps, but not orc love), but I wagered that they would move through .7 at a comparable pace to .5 > .6, and I would soon be rewarded with .8 content. Today, I finally said enough was enough and withdrew my Patreon support. Say what you will about my hanging on too long, but hindsight is 20-20, plus it wasn't doing irreparable harm to my bank account to try to support them. Unfortunately for the developers, the world has changed a lot in the last two years. Creating a model that would allow AI to approximate if not replicate the WaL artwork is getting easier each day. Likewise, the number of people willing to pay for hand-drawn, bespoke art in their games is diminishing. Their sweet spot for completing the entire game is likely behind them, but ending the game with .7 is going to feel to their supporters as abrupt a head-on collision at 120 mph. I do not envy their plight, but I cannot support them strictly out of pity. There are too many competing opportunities in my life for charitable giving.
Hey, some would say 'better late than never' in regards to you pulling your pledge, but honestly you've shown a lot of guts by admitting this, and admitting that maybe the Devs aren't doing this project in good faith.

I was once a backer, too, but after month 9ish of no update, it became clear they weren't focusing enough on the game to warrant my pledge. Just excuse after excuse after excuse for 2+ years now.

Good on you, friend.
 

shazba jnr

Member
Feb 3, 2024
354
2,563
Based on their progress to get to .6, I began supporting them on Patreon as they began prepping for .7. I wasn't thrilled about orc love (tiefling love perhaps, but not orc love), but I wagered that they would move through .7 at a comparable pace to .5 > .6, and I would soon be rewarded with .8 content. Today, I finally said enough was enough and withdrew my Patreon support. Say what you will about my hanging on too long, but hindsight is 20-20, plus it wasn't doing irreparable harm to my bank account to try to support them. Unfortunately for the developers, the world has changed a lot in the last two years. Creating a model that would allow AI to approximate if not replicate the WaL artwork is getting easier each day. Likewise, the number of people willing to pay for hand-drawn, bespoke art in their games is diminishing. Their sweet spot for completing the entire game is likely behind them, but ending the game with .7 is going to feel to their supporters as abrupt a head-on collision at 120 mph. I do not envy their plight, but I cannot support them strictly out of pity. There are too many competing opportunities in my life for charitable giving.
Hey, some would say 'better late than never' in regards to you pulling your pledge, but honestly you've shown a lot of guts by admitting this, and admitting that maybe the Devs aren't doing this project in good faith.

I was once a backer, too, but after month 9ish of no update, it became clear they weren't focusing enough on the game to warrant my pledge. Just excuse after excuse after excuse for 2+ years now.

Good on you, friend.
I can understand the mentality of "It'll surely be soon..." and each to their own when they decide that enough is enough.

I think some patrons are ok with it because they actually asked for larger updates, which means longer update periods, but from what I've read, this episode is going to be about as long as the last one (which was a few hours of story, so that's fine), but they've more than doubled the delivery time of the last episode, so yeah...

From what I understand, this game is their full time employment. Hard to believe you'd stake your family-of-four's finances on a quaint little porn game, and it's not like it's making a fortune (like a few other games around here). So you'd think this would have to be a priority, unless they've started earning elsewhere, which would actually make a lot of sense (and be a sensible move on their part).

But they clearly aren't phased, there's been pressure on them for a while and they just keep saying it'll be ready when it's ready.
 

Geegee112

Newbie
May 25, 2021
38
40
Just reading these last few pages has me shook. I was honestly thinking they were pushing through and COMPLETING the ENTIRE GAME, and that's why its taking so long. Your telling me its been a year for an update only a few hours long at that and not the rest of the game??!!

I shall probably forgive them once post nut clarity hits me after the orc lady drops but I am still miffed and baffled by this whole situation. Would love to see a day in the life of this Developer.
 

Abaddon Doom

Newbie
Jul 12, 2024
79
236
This baby is being born! Embrace Gomira in all her Orcish femininity...including FUTA! [Dreams From Another Dimension]...but probably not, given the male protagonist in question.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Kisama33
Jun 27, 2024
37
91
Damn, no ork girl yet (by the time I finished my text they deliver the update).

Unfortunately for the developers, the world has changed a lot in the last two years. Creating a model that would allow AI to approximate if not replicate the WaL artwork is getting easier each day. Likewise, the number of people willing to pay for hand-drawn, bespoke art in their games is diminishing. Their sweet spot for completing the entire game is likely behind them, but ending the game with .7 is going to feel to their supporters as abrupt a head-on collision at 120 mph.
I actually like these porn games because of how indie and human they are. Not all games, mind you, I'm a nitpicker. Porn without a rich story is so boring and soulless, one could jerk to the AI porn pics. It's meaningless, it's a pure mechanics, it's fucking animalistic.

I don't like to be a fucking animal to the fucking TNCs and their plays with society. And here is a thing about these porn games. Let's imagine a developer who actually works on the whole game. Not just a porn project ("- Hey, can you do a rule 34 art on this one character? - Yes, I can. Hmm, there is the RenPy engine, what if I'd do some kind of rule 34-project for the Patreon, it'd be like a full-time job!"), but the game as it should be - with story, soundwork and shit. And only after 1.0 they deliver updates and DLCs. This imaginary developer would understand what reasonable is, what kind of project they could do in what time boundaries. They wouldn't wobble to the left and right asking community what they'd like to see in a next update. They would just do their game as they see fit. And they would proudly say "No fucking AI art used for this game. Because we can do it ourselves!". Those guys would be heroes.

I totally believe it is possible - that guy did Stardew Valley by himself. That was some time ago. And this two has the opportunities of being the team, the Patreon, the whole community of other devs who might have wanted to join their project.
I'm fucking slow at typing in English, I forgot what I had to say, so I'll try to wrap it already.
I believe that a 'strictly non-AI game' is a thing a dev can exploit. People like me would love to try this kind of a game, IF it meets the requirements to be a game. And if it isn't a Patreon project. I also believe it could be some kind of a statement against modern world. Like, yes, we do a game with hand-drawn graphics and with porn.

There is nothing wrong with the Patreon itself, but you have to deliver a whole product, not the chunk of it. I used to back the Innocent Witches dev, and it was some 4-5 years ago, I guess. I backed it only 1$ for 4 months, which makes it 4$ total, then I realised - where it all leads to? Should I support them further for just a monthly updates? What a total sum would be? Some 50$ for a game, maybe more (I was thinking then)? That is not right, there are better ways to spend my money than for some game I don't quite like. That was the last time I backed a game on Patreon.

As for WaL, there are so many flaws game-wise, I did mentioned them before. I don't play indie games or modern games at all, just the same few favorites for years. And I was so excited when I discovered this game, but I lost my interest in the story after they intoduced the old hag. I'm so old-fashioned that I was fucking disgusted just by the thought why would a relatively young pair do a game about fucking an old woman? So I came here today to check whether the Ork is out to check the art, nothing more. I'm disgusted by their game. No update, so all that's left is to entertain yourself in the comment section.
It is also possible the WaL devs will use AI themselves. There is nothing left that would be 'beyond' for them.

Speaking of the indie porn games widely, I also would like to mention My Dystopian Robot Girlfriend. It is another game I was so excited about. It is crude (which is kind of interesting, like a statement against the game industry itself), has a lot of placeholder art, but it has the story so engaging, and lots of music! Unfortunately, the dev still can't deliver the whole game. Instead, they decided to stretch the production, doing stuff that is not crucial to the plot.
So this whole situation kind of dissapoints me.

The only promising game project I've seen so far is Hooked. I'm not here to promote this game, I'm sceptical about the capability of it's creator to actually finish the project, but at least it has a reasonable plot design. There is no magical world full of characters, and the whole plot fits in the summary ('A guy starting a porn career with three girls'). Everything that is beyond this summary could be the fucking updates and DLCs every other devs seem to be after about.
Conciseness as well as to be reasonable about your capabilities as an author are the feats themselves.

Damn this is a huge text, I apologise for this. There are times I want to spill my thoughts out.
 

nitram5

Member
Aug 5, 2019
144
319
In my opinion, they should make the game available in its current form, and only point out that it is a version with bugs, and everyone plays at their own risk.
 

The_Ismand

Newbie
May 31, 2023
23
101
Seeing as i am usually just lurking around in here, this seems like a good time to actually throw in my 2 cents and make my own post.

It seems that most posts are rather one-sided in their perspective, so i will try to see things from both sides.
As far as i remember i first backed the Magic Nuts patreon around winter 2021/2022. Not too sure, but the first version i played was 0.5 (1st Main story update), released Sep. 2021. I initially backed at the Friend tier, which i upgraded to Close Friend after completing my first run. I subscribed till July when 0.6 (Rose update) was released and where i upgraded to Best Friend tier, in order to maximize voting power. I remained at Best Friend tier for a few months, then dropped back down to Close Friend, having no need of the voting power, but still wanting to back a great and rather unique AVN.

At this point in time we are at late 2022. This is when things really slowed down and after, hmmm, maybe 8 months or something like that, i stopped backing due to the lack of progress. Still kept tabs on the developement because i liked what i had played so far, but it became increasingly demotivating as time went on.

Here are the release dates and dev-time, just to make things convenient for whoever reads this behemoth of a post.
0.2 : June 28. 2020
0.3 : September 20. 2020 (apx. 3 months)
0.4 : February 13. 2021 (apx. 4,5 months)
0.5 : September 24. 2021 (apx. 7 months)
0.6 : July 30. 2022 (apx. 10 months)
0.7 : Reasonable guess is mid November. (2 years and 3-4 months)

OK, with that out of the way, the positives.
- WAL! was never ever going to be in the camp of AVN's with a good pace of developement. The high quality hand drawn 2D art with plenty of clothing and posing variations was always going to be in the way of fast developement. Even at full and nearly full effeciency WAL! was never gonna be able to keep up with the average DAZ/KK/HS developer.
- That said, before they started work on version 0.7, the update rate was reasonable. Sure, 0.6 with its 10 month developement is where things usually starts getting sketchy with AVN's. But i can tell you the content was great and there was a good amount of new locations that all needed new art assets.
- The excuses the Nuts have given are valid, to an extend. First and foremost, a second child. The first 6-12 months of any childs life is especially taxing for all parents. To keep things simple, lets just make the assumption that the Nuts productivity was reduced by 50% for 8 months. This is essentially their way of taking maternity/paternity leave as self-employed people.
On top of that, one of them had some kind of issue with a bone fracture that hadn't healed properly and needed some fairly extensive surgery. And after that, some time to recover, likely a few months. And since this surgery business happened around the same time as the childs first months, i wouldn't be surprised if they had at least 1 month with basically no work done.
Lets say these 2 factors averages out at 50% productivity for a full year. Even then, it will take some time to get back to 100%, a toddler is only slightly less of a burden than an infant.
- 0.7 might in fact turn out to have more and/or better quality content than 0.6. But honestly i doubt it.

The negatives.
Ok, so based on the above, you might get the impression that i consider the devtime of 2,3 years fully justified. I don't.
The number of tasks keeps increasing in tiny amounts with almost every progress update and this has been the case for at least half a year. This period of time could fittingly be called Polish-hell. Some of you are probably familiar with the Miyamoto quote: "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad". Most of us can easily name at least 1 AAA game that could have been far better with just a few more months spent in developement. The rushing of AAA titles became common in the '10s and for this reason it is a lesson that many in the game industry could benefit from. Few studious have.
As for the AVN sphere, i have slowly gotten the impression that this quote is being taken too far, to the point that its getting destructive and not constructive. I think there is a large number of AVN's who finds themselves stuck in a bubble of yes-men, insulating them from trolls but also valid critics. Some of these AVN developers are straight up bad at planning things from the beginning. Some get lazy and complecent at a lack of scrutiny. Then there's the greedy ones, the real milkers who realize they can legally scam people out of their money and embraces the art of delaying and stretching developement for profit.

I think the Nuts belong in a forth more benevolent group. Broadly speaking i consider them "unrestrained perfectionists". If you read through a number of their Patreon posts you quickly realize that they care a lot about fixing even minor percieved flaws in already completed content. And this is likely why we have had this polish-hell since March. They keep finding things that juuuuuust has to be fixed, even if the fixes barely increases the overall quality. This is likely what will make or break WAL! in the long run. They have to rein in their perfectionism before it eats them up from inside.

Going forward.
Well, i will resubsribe in order to get voting for when the focus of 0.9 is to be decided.
I will play 0.7. Actually, i will play the entire thing from beginning to end, when i get around to it.
I will judge if the devtime minus the valid excuses is fair, in relation to released content.
I will unsub most of the time until 0.8 is released. If devtime goes back down to 7-10 months, they will regain my trust and i will sub most of the time.
 

vks017

Member
Jun 30, 2017
122
266
Seeing as i am usually just lurking around in here, this seems like a good time to actually throw in my 2 cents and make my own post.

It seems that most posts are rather one-sided in their perspective, so i will try to see things from both sides.
As far as i remember i first backed the Magic Nuts patreon around winter 2021/2022. Not too sure, but the first version i played was 0.5 (1st Main story update), released Sep. 2021. I initially backed at the Friend tier, which i upgraded to Close Friend after completing my first run. I subscribed till July when 0.6 (Rose update) was released and where i upgraded to Best Friend tier, in order to maximize voting power. I remained at Best Friend tier for a few months, then dropped back down to Close Friend, having no need of the voting power, but still wanting to back a great and rather unique AVN.

At this point in time we are at late 2022. This is when things really slowed down and after, hmmm, maybe 8 months or something like that, i stopped backing due to the lack of progress. Still kept tabs on the developement because i liked what i had played so far, but it became increasingly demotivating as time went on.

Here are the release dates and dev-time, just to make things convenient for whoever reads this behemoth of a post.
0.2 : June 28. 2020
0.3 : September 20. 2020 (apx. 3 months)
0.4 : February 13. 2021 (apx. 4,5 months)
0.5 : September 24. 2021 (apx. 7 months)
0.6 : July 30. 2022 (apx. 10 months)
0.7 : Reasonable guess is mid November. (2 years and 3-4 months)

OK, with that out of the way, the positives.
- WAL! was never ever going to be in the camp of AVN's with a good pace of developement. The high quality hand drawn 2D art with plenty of clothing and posing variations was always going to be in the way of fast developement. Even at full and nearly full effeciency WAL! was never gonna be able to keep up with the average DAZ/KK/HS developer.
- That said, before they started work on version 0.7, the update rate was reasonable. Sure, 0.6 with its 10 month developement is where things usually starts getting sketchy with AVN's. But i can tell you the content was great and there was a good amount of new locations that all needed new art assets.
- The excuses the Nuts have given are valid, to an extend. First and foremost, a second child. The first 6-12 months of any childs life is especially taxing for all parents. To keep things simple, lets just make the assumption that the Nuts productivity was reduced by 50% for 8 months. This is essentially their way of taking maternity/paternity leave as self-employed people.
On top of that, one of them had some kind of issue with a bone fracture that hadn't healed properly and needed some fairly extensive surgery. And after that, some time to recover, likely a few months. And since this surgery business happened around the same time as the childs first months, i wouldn't be surprised if they had at least 1 month with basically no work done.
Lets say these 2 factors averages out at 50% productivity for a full year. Even then, it will take some time to get back to 100%, a toddler is only slightly less of a burden than an infant.
- 0.7 might in fact turn out to have more and/or better quality content than 0.6. But honestly i doubt it.

The negatives.
Ok, so based on the above, you might get the impression that i consider the devtime of 2,3 years fully justified. I don't.
The number of tasks keeps increasing in tiny amounts with almost every progress update and this has been the case for at least half a year. This period of time could fittingly be called Polish-hell. Some of you are probably familiar with the Miyamoto quote: "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad". Most of us can easily name at least 1 AAA game that could have been far better with just a few more months spent in developement. The rushing of AAA titles became common in the '10s and for this reason it is a lesson that many in the game industry could benefit from. Few studious have.
As for the AVN sphere, i have slowly gotten the impression that this quote is being taken too far, to the point that its getting destructive and not constructive. I think there is a large number of AVN's who finds themselves stuck in a bubble of yes-men, insulating them from trolls but also valid critics. Some of these AVN developers are straight up bad at planning things from the beginning. Some get lazy and complecent at a lack of scrutiny. Then there's the greedy ones, the real milkers who realize they can legally scam people out of their money and embraces the art of delaying and stretching developement for profit.

I think the Nuts belong in a forth more benevolent group. Broadly speaking i consider them "unrestrained perfectionists". If you read through a number of their Patreon posts you quickly realize that they care a lot about fixing even minor percieved flaws in already completed content. And this is likely why we have had this polish-hell since March. They keep finding things that juuuuuust has to be fixed, even if the fixes barely increases the overall quality. This is likely what will make or break WAL! in the long run. They have to rein in their perfectionism before it eats them up from inside.

Going forward.
Well, i will resubsribe in order to get voting for when the focus of 0.9 is to be decided.
I will play 0.7. Actually, i will play the entire thing from beginning to end, when i get around to it.
I will judge if the devtime minus the valid excuses is fair, in relation to released content.
I will unsub most of the time until 0.8 is released. If devtime goes back down to 7-10 months, they will regain my trust and i will sub most of the time.
There are certainly Devs in a benevolent perfectionist group. I'm not sure MN fits that category though. For that to be a believable tag for them the progress in the last 6 months would not be so uniform. The fact that its almost robotically the same pace means the reports are manufactured and not the reality. Anyone who's been in development knows this. (I do QA for a living).
 

The_Ismand

Newbie
May 31, 2023
23
101
There are certainly Devs in a benevolent perfectionist group. I'm not sure MN fits that category though. For that to be a believable tag for them the progress in the last 6 months would not be so uniform. The fact that its almost robotically the same pace means the reports are manufactured and not the reality. Anyone who's been in development knows this. (I do QA for a living).
I suppose you have a point about the way they add 1 or 2 task for each 1 or 2 done on most days. And then, occasionally they have a day where no new tasks are added, but some get completed. Something along the lines of 7 tasks added for every 10 done.

I think it would seem more credible if they added, IDK, 10 or 20 new tasks at a time. That would give the impression that they look at the entire thing and make a new estimate. The existing approach feels more lazy.
 

Kirel

Member
Mar 18, 2018
344
492
Devs just announced the plan for 0.7 on Patreon:

1. First round of polish done by the end of the first week of October (i.e. next week)
2. Content and polish done by the first week of November. Game sent out to external testers.
3. Release during the final week of November.
 
4.70 star(s) 454 Votes