Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.03] [MagicNuts]

[difugirt]

What a disappointment. How many years have passed since the news about the update about Gomira. And this is the only scene I missed. The character is absolutely not interesting to me. And they still haven't released an update on it. So I understand when I come here in 3 years, and Gomira is just getting an update and the developers are just starting to post reports on the next update?

 

[jahall]

im just curious what happend, because after 06.0 version they really slow to make update

Most significantly, another baby happened (they already had one), which has inevitably slowed things down. There's just the two of them, a husband and wife team, with the wife doing the art and the husband doing everything else.

 

[KekWGgWP]

The cope has now reached "Even though this game is tagged abandoned it's not abandoned."

The game gets abandoned in case the dev has cut all kind of communications and stopped giving any kind of updates about the game for a certain amount of time, or if the dev simply informs people about abandoning the game.

And since the dev of this game is actually giving updates and informs people about his progress, then the game is not abandoned at all and i don't think they will put abandoned tag on it.

Because it doesn't make any sense to do it, regardless what other people say the game is not abandoned.

 

[Redikal]

A game like this is with this level of details, is extremely time consuming to do. Art and posing takes a lot of time, this game is using those two things to a degree that isn't seen anywhere else. They are varying animations/poses/illustrations every step of the way, first of all you have to make all that art which takes time and is physically exhausting and then probably reedit it a lot of times after on to make sure everything works in the context of the game.
The developper has to put that in the game, just doing the prep work, setting up the images, creating layeredimages to support those take time, then comes the posing which is one of the slowest task possible, you have to choose what is gonna be the mouth/eyebrow/bust/eye on each individual character in a sequence, and if you want your posing to be as good as it can be, this requires thorough testing. This game has insanely complex posing, it goes beyond simple mouth/eye/eyebrows, it's changing constantly like an animated movie.
You have to reload the game each time you change something to see the results, the reload time isn't insignificant and the game gets bigger and bigger with each release, it also make it slower.
Don't shit on them, there is a commitment to a certain level of detail in that game that explains the delay, it's apparent to any devs that ever worked on ren'py, if they wanted they could drop the level of detail and sacrifice the way things flow so well in certain scenes and probably have it much sooner but they have chosen an hard path and they are getting shitted on for that, it's kind of fucked up.

 

[ogapetape]

That requires common sense.
Apparently the least "common" thing on the planet.

Least vitriolic Whichone comment

 

[ogapetape]

Well, it's true. The 18-month mark is a limit arbitrarily set by F95 staff, nothing else. If someone thinks F95 rules are what define the real situation of any game, that's their problem. As long as the game is being worked on, the game is not abandoned. And in this case the devs are still working on it and communicating their daily progress with their patrons and fans, so it's not abandoned.

I don't make the rules, man. Sounds like something you need to bring up with the admins.

 

[moskyx]

I don't make the rules, man. Sounds like something you need to bring up with the admins.

I'm fine with the rules. It's just that this tag doesn't mean a game it's actually abandoned. It's a fair sign to let people know that the last update was a long time ago, even a suspiciously long time ago so people should adjust their expectations, but in some cases it can be misleading. My issue is with these people who seem to believe that F95 putting an 'abandoned' tag actually means that the game is not being worked on anymore and don't even listen to reasons.

 

[ogapetape]

I'm fine with the rules. It's just that this tag doesn't mean a game it's actually abandoned. It's a fair sign to let people know that the last update was a long time ago, even a suspiciously long time ago so people should adjust their expectations, but in some cases it can be misleading. My issue is with these people who seem to believe that F95 putting an 'abandoned' tag actually means that the game is not being worked on anymore and don't even listen to reasons.

Nobody can control people's reactions to a tag, unfortunately. It is outside our control.

 

[whichone]

Nobody can control people's reactions to a tag, unfortunately. It is outside our control.

No, but we can provide the relevant information so that they can make an informed decision.
As he said, if they still get it wrong, that's their problem.

It's exactly the same as the sexual content tags.
People have their own understanding of terms. So, when they see a tag applied, they assume it to be what they know, instead of educating themself to what it actually means here.
Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.
Then they get upset & irresponsibly blame the tags for misleading them.

Then we all justifiably laugh at their ignorance.

 

[Knight]

No, but we can provide the relevant information so that they can make an informed decision.
As he said, if they still get it wrong, that's their problem.

It's exactly the same as the sexual content tags.
People have their own understanding of terms. So, when they see a tag applied, they assume it to be what they know, instead of educating themself to what it actually means here.
Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.
Then they get upset & irresponsibly blame the tags for misleading them.

Then we all justifiably laugh at their ignorance.

Here's the thing, if something is being developed but little or nothing is put out for unreasonable amounts of time it's effectively the same thing. The simple question is, "what do I have after waiting x amount of time?" if the answer is nothing then even if the dev is swearing up and down that it's being worked on you still have the same thing, nothing.

You could add a "vaporware" or "Scam" tag but those are much more subjective and charged terms that could be considered slander, on the other-hand calling something that isn't making any progress after a long time abandoned is neutral and fitting, and the tag can always be removed if the project picks up again while walking back a "Scam" tag is much harder and a "Slow development" tag is even more subjective.

3 months with no update or 18 months without a release is a VERY reasonable time to asses the situation. I work in software development and if I went a month without showing my boss I had done something tangible I would be fired on the spot; and we are talking 18 months where the supporters have no power over the dev.

 

[PBS666]

I work in software development and if I went a month without showing my boss I had done something tangible I would be fired on the spot; and we are talking 18 months where the supporters have no power over the dev.

Apples and oranges. They don't work for a boss. They are self-employed. The supporters can withdraw their support at any time if they would want to do so. That's their "power". Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[whichone]

Here's the thing, if something is being developed but little or nothing is put out for unreasonable amounts of time it's effectively the same thing. The simple question is, "what do I have after waiting x amount of time?" if the answer is nothing then even if the dev is swearing up and down that it's being worked on you still have the same thing, nothing.

18 months without an update is a long time, even for a free game. No-one disputes that, least of all the devs.
They have justifiable (to their patrons) cause for the delay & have also offered refunds.
Here's the thing, no-one is forcing you to wait.
Do you have nothing else to do with your time?

You'd have nothing? So what? They owe you literally nothing.
You are not entitled to anything, so stop behaving as if you are.

I work in software development and if I went a month without showing my boss I had done something tangible I would be fired on the spot.

No you wouldn't. What utter drivel.
At worst, you'd get a warning from H.R. & enter into a disciplinary procedure. You couldn't get fired for months of continued non-performance, after that.
You would still get paid.

and we are talking 18 months where the supporters have no power over the dev.

Again, utter drivel.
Patrons can withdraw their support at any time they choose.
They have full power over where their money goes.

 

[ogapetape]

No, but we can provide the relevant information so that they can make an informed decision.
As he said, if they still get it wrong, that's their problem.

It's exactly the same as the sexual content tags.
People have their own understanding of terms. So, when they see a tag applied, they assume it to be what they know, instead of educating themself to what it actually means here.
Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.
Then they get upset & irresponsibly blame the tags for misleading them.

Then we all justifiably laugh at their ignorance.

Again, not something anyone can control. I'd contact the admins, but as you say, that would require common sense.

 

[ogapetape]

Don't be silly. Proving factual information, over baseless emotional opinions, is something everyone can control.
Why would you contact the admins?
Because some clowns don't bother to find out what the tags mean, so just assume what they mean instead? Then go on butt-hurt rants when they find it's not what they expected?
That's not a job for the admins, that's a failure of their parents & teachers.

We've arrived at the "Blame Society" phase of the operation.l

 

[Deleted member 289409]

Parents and teachers are directly (& legally) responsible for a child's education. Society is not.

It's a behavioral problem which is solely on the parents. It is not and never should be the responsibility of a teacher to be a students parent due to the parents being lazy.
A teachers job is to teach a student the skills they'll need, Math, English, Reading, etc...
A parents job is to teach a child proper behavior, reasoning and develop their common sense.
Back when I was going up this was understand but somewhere along the line society starting thinking that a teacher should also be a second parent. So in a way society is also partly to blame.

 

[whichone]

It's a behavioral problem which is solely on the parents. It is not and never should be the responsibility of a teacher to be a students parent due to the parents being lazy.
A teachers job is to teach a student the skills they'll need, Math, English, Reading, etc...
A parents job is to teach a child proper behavior, reasoning and develop their common sense.
Back when I was going up this was understand but somewhere along the line society starting thinking that a teacher should also be a second parent. So in a way society is also partly to blame.

I agree with your allocation of responsibility, but a good teacher will inspire and encourage a child to use its mind & learn, which is the point.
The people under discussion clearly did not learn.

Their lack of ability to act on verified information, instead of baseless assumptions, is something they should have been taught by both, parents & teachers.
My parents definitely taught me not to act on assumptions, but so did my Science teacher. It was a fundamental part of his lessons. Also my woodwork teacher with "measure twice, cut once".

 

[Timotej777]

 

[DD_King]

A game like this is with this level of details, is extremely time consuming to do. Art and posing takes a lot of time, this game is using those two things to a degree that isn't seen anywhere else. They are varying animations/poses/illustrations every step of the way, first of all you have to make all that art which takes time and is physically exhausting and then probably reedit it a lot of times after on to make sure everything works in the context of the game.
The developper has to put that in the game, just doing the prep work, setting up the images, creating layeredimages to support those take time, then comes the posing which is one of the slowest task possible, you have to choose what is gonna be the mouth/eyebrow/bust/eye on each individual character in a sequence, and if you want your posing to be as good as it can be, this requires thorough testing. This game has insanely complex posing, it goes beyond simple mouth/eye/eyebrows, it's changing constantly like an animated movie.
You have to reload the game each time you change something to see the results, the reload time isn't insignificant and the game gets bigger and bigger with each release, it also make it slower.
Don't shit on them, there is a commitment to a certain level of detail in that game that explains the delay, it's apparent to any devs that ever worked on ren'py, if they wanted they could drop the level of detail and sacrifice the way things flow so well in certain scenes and probably have it much sooner but they have chosen an hard path and they are getting shitted on for that, it's kind of fucked up.

yeaah, no it simply dosent take this long you have to be very ignorant to say that ; there are many ways to speed up the process with keeping the same quality even enhance it. if the project was unprofitable i would agree with you but its more than profitable even more than high paying job for the amount of time they are putting
therefore they could easily hire even way more qualified people to help them on project and still be profitable there is no pressure on these dev with 2 years of getting paid with no result it is even enjoyable as developer i would do the same on a renpy game

 

[fusibile87]

Honestly this game is really good, but knowing that it won't be finished in 10 years is really disheartening... i wonder how can people still be interested in the game knowing this...

 

[Knight]

18 months without an update is a long time, even for a free game. No-one disputes that, least of all the devs.
They have justifiable (to their patrons) cause for the delay & have also offered refunds.
Here's the thing, no-one is forcing you to wait.
Do you have nothing else to do with your time?

What does that have to do with the tag system? You know, that thing my post was discussing and what the whole conversation was about? This isn't about me waiting or being entitled, it's about how 18 months is a fair amount of time to mark something abandoned.

No you wouldn't. What utter drivel.
At worst, you'd get a warning from H.R. & enter into a disciplinary procedure. You couldn't get fired for months of continued non-performance, after that.
You would still get paid.

Ok, so now apparently you know how my company works inside and out. Cool, since you know so much care to let me know how I can get some paid time off?
Also, what kind of set up do you have where "You couldn't get fired for months of continued non-performance" because I am super jealous, hook me up bro!

Again, utter drivel.
Patrons can withdraw their support at any time they choose.
They have full power over where their money goes.

Pulling support can encourage a dev to change their ways but by no means dictates it, they have no direct power.

You'd have nothing? So what? They owe you literally nothing.
You are not entitled to anything, so stop behaving as if you are.

Where in my post did you see me say I am entitled to game updates? Please point it out to me, because as far as I can see the entire post was about how the rules for the abandoned tag are fair, I didn't even mention this game or any game in particular.

My I ask why you are so angry?
You seem to be taking this incredibly personally to the point that you are lashing out over a conversation about how to tag a game.
All jokes aside, I love a bit of mud flinging on the internet but not if someone genuinely gets unstable over it, take a deep breath, take a break, have some tea then go back and re-read my post and we can discus it calmly.