Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.05] [MagicNuts]

[Syrabert]

[...]
I was not actually crying, if you read my comment carefully it is more of an observation. You, however, seem to be ticked off using cuss words and what not.

Everyone has the right to voice opinions. Less voice tends to > more lazy games produced
Also I was not aware that one of the devs gave birth and is on maternity leave. Happy for them![...]

Well, unfortunately you have used the same wording like a lot of trolls, implementing the WAL devs are milking their audience.
And like a lot of those trolls you didn't check before, otherwise you would have noticed the reason for the extreme long delay.
Something i observed, a lot of those complainers suddenly pop into a thread and start their complaining and after some poison spitting they suddenly disappear to the next thread and play their game again.
So let me ask you some simple questions: How can a free game lead to milking?
What kind of microtransactions do you mean?
Did somebody forces the patreons to fork out money?
Are you sure you didn't mistake WAL with some other games?

as you wrote: "everybody has the right to voice opinions" so i use my right and assume you are just trolling, but my opinion about you could be false.

 

[varzovia]

I love when this fats start fighting and arguing over nonsense. Good job lads

 

[Woodalicca]

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And another one who'll never get completed, Mugiwara. Mark my words and make a screenshot.

 

[carviotto]

When any pregnant scenes?

 

[Knight]

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what really makes it is the girls expressions.

 

[~Smooth as Silk~]

Take all the time you want, honestly, this game has some of the most attractive created female artworks I've seen. Myrtle is Top-Tier Level period, her facial look, her figure, it's simply perfection. Yes, I do hope that their is the ability to make them pregnant, possibly starting a family option if possible (of course we don't want to be limited to just one).

I'm really looking forward to being able to hook up with the Princess in the future, since she was also Top-Tier.

Excellent game, and I can't wait to play the next update.

 

[ogapetape]

When any pregnant scenes?

Got a bit of a wait ahead.

 

[Lastgarrison]

Got a bit of a wait ahead.

Hope Maple is pregnant soon. She is so cute to me.

 

[evilman3]

They're earning around $95k USD a year not really releasing a game. Why would they ever finish this? lol.

 

[theMickey_]

They're earning around $95k USD a year not really releasing a game. Why would they ever finish this? lol.

I assume you've never worked yourself and earned any money, and you're probably still living in your parents house with all the commodities and have now family your own? Well, in that case getting almost $100k a year seems to be much, I agree.

But first of all: they don't get ~$100k. Nor $95k. They have to pay taxes and shit. As they're located in Spain, the average living costs in Spain for a family of four is about $2.4k per month without rent (

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). That's $30k a year -- again: without rent! The average rent in Spain is about $1k to $1.5k depending on where you live (same source as above). That's another $12k-$18k a year. Now we're already up to about $45k to $50k a year they have to spend on expenses, just to enjoy a roof over their head and be able to pay for food, and their basic needs (like electricity and stuff). Taking in account the average 40% taxes they'll have to pay on their income (

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), they are left with about $500 to $1k at most per month to spend. I might be wrong about this, it's just a quick 'n dirty calculation.

Both of them are working their butts off (at least 5 days a week, sometimes even 6 days a week!). Have they posted a game update during the last year? No, they haven't -- so what? I'm myself working in IT (software development), and it might take 1-3 years (!) of paid work until a new update is ready! Am I lazy? Am I milking my employer? I wish I could, but I'm getting tracked on a weekly basis, and everyone is OK with the progress we're achieving. MagicNuts are pretty much doing the same: the basically report their progress every week, and eventually the update will be ready and available (even for those who haven't "invested" in their work!).

So what's different between me and MagicNuts? Well, I do have a non-cancelable contract, which guarantees me a certain amount of money per month/year. They don't. So all they got is the voluntary donations they got from people who love their work, and still believe and trust them. But for them it can change every moment, and they get like $1k to $2k less per month... For me it won't change, even if I work slower than usual...

Please feel free to become a freelancer yourself, living just off the humble donations of people who enjoy and love your work. But to be honest, I don't think you'll ever do something like that. You don't have the balls. You'd rather work as a burger-flipper to get just enough money to go out and have some beer with your friends while still living at your mom's house.

 

[Nevermind_1979]

Kickstarter: Pay as much money as you want, 1 time, to support someone who will make a product, that you will own because you paid for it via support.
Steam: Pay money to buy a game (Sometimes early access)
Patreon: Subscribe to an individual to support their lifestyle. Content creators, artists, developers, writers.

The point of patreon is that there is a person who makes something you like, and you want to give them a token of thanks for it. It also enables you to give that person a revenue stream that means they dont need a 9-5 job, so they can make that content full time.

The implication that there is a "Tacit contract" between a subscriber and a developer, is you being Entitled.
Just because you think that subscribing is "Buying" the game, does not make it true.

Ultimately, you subscribe if you want to subscribe.
If you think they are taking too long, then stop giving them money.

But have the common decency to acknowledge that you stopped because you wanted to, without spreading misinformation about things.

Never understood the sentiment that by paying for the Patreon you support the developer, not the product. So what, if they stop developing the game alltogether, by this logic the patreon money shouldn't decrease? You support the people, not the game, right? If I start patreon tomorrow let's see how much money I will get, even though I am a swell guy and need it as much as the devs. Obviously by supporting the patreon of developers you support the development of the game, otherwise they wouldn't have a whole ass screen with thanks to the supporters in-game. And even if you disagree, and think that devs don't owe players anything, why is it entitlement when people complain that the game update takes 16+ months? Should we stop criticising any free products whatsoever by this point? If my instagram app works like shit I will give a low score at the Apple store and write a bad comment, even though it is free.
From my point of view 16 months of development for 2-3 hour update is nuts, and I don't think this point of view is as insane as you are making it out to be. People spend a lot of money to support the development of the game, and get short ai-ass progress reports for months, and the moment they come with questions and complains on the platform to discuss it, they get blasted by everybody as if they said something stupid or wrong. Doesn't make too much sense to me.

 

[Lucky Guerrilla]

Taking in account the average 40% taxes they'll have to pay on their income (

You must be registered to see the links

), they are left with about $500 to $1k at most per month to spend. I might be wrong about this, it's just a quick 'n dirty calculation.

You are wrong. Massively wrong.

$95K is €88k pa. Assuming they split that equally and report €44k each pa, they will be taking home €64,868 pa. That's €5,405 pm. Or $5,831 pm.

They aren't raking it in but both are getting more than twice the average salary.

 

[whichone]

You are wrong. Massively wrong.

$95K is €88k pa. Assuming they split that equally and report €44k each pa, they will be taking home €64,868 pa. That's €5,405 pm. Or $5,831 pm.

They aren't raking it in but both are getting more than twice the average salary.

Don't forget that their Patreon earnings are subject to a minimum of -8% from Patreon fees (possibly 12% for higher tier package, but doubtful).
So,

You must be registered to see the links

\7,279€ pcm -8% instantly becomes 6,696€ pcm.
x12 = 80,352€ /2 = 40,176€ each. Average salary in Spain is 30,000€.
That's a 30% increase on the national salary, not quite "more than twice".

80,352€ becomes

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take home.
/12 = 4,492€ pcm.
Average cost of living for a 4 person family in Spain is

You must be registered to see the links

pcm, not including rent.
Average rent is

You must be registered to see the links

pcm.
4,492 - 3,039 leaves 1,453 /2 = 726.5€ pcm each.
"Not raking it in" is totally true.

 

[lazymunchlax]

Never understood the sentiment that by paying for the Patreon you support the developer, not the product. So what, if they stop developing the game alltogether, by this logic the patreon money shouldn't decrease? You support the people, not the game, right? If I start patreon tomorrow let's see how much money I will get, even though I am a swell guy and need it as much as the devs. Obviously by supporting the patreon of developers you support the development of the game, otherwise they wouldn't have a whole ass screen with thanks to the supporters in-game. And even if you disagree, and think that devs don't owe players anything, why is it entitlement when people complain that the game update takes 16+ months? Should we stop criticising any free products whatsoever by this point? If my instagram app works like shit I will give a low score at the Apple store and write a bad comment, even though it is free.
From my point of view 16 months of development for 2-3 hour update is nuts, and I don't think this point of view is as insane as you are making it out to be. People spend a lot of money to support the development of the game, and get short ai-ass progress reports for months, and the moment they come with questions and complains on the platform to discuss it, they get blasted by everybody as if they said something stupid or wrong. Doesn't make too much sense to me.

The point is, I want them to make this game.
So I support them so they are able to do so.

If they didn't have patreon, they'd have to get 9-5 jobs and either wouldn't be making the game, or would barely have time to do it.
The basis began when old youtubers made youtube channels as a "Passion Project". Basically, they spent what little time they had making content because they enjoyed it.
By making this hobby a viable source of revenue, they do it "Full time".

Now, to re-iterate.
You can decide if, how and when you support someone.

If you want a product, this isn't it. They aren't selling a product, so giving their patreon money isn't buying a product.
To believe it is, is scamming yourself.

If you decide "Hm, they haven't given enough content fast enough, I'm going to stop my support" then you are FREE to make that choice.

If after they start pumping content you go "After that lengthy break, I'm going to withold my decision until I see an improved release schedule that consistently maintains itself" then you are FREE.

Dont support someone when you don't want to.

My only stake here, is not to comment on the people themselves, especially not when you or anyone has misunderstood what the point of a patreon is.

 

[Biscardone]

Never understood the sentiment that by paying for the Patreon you support the developer, not the product. So what, if they stop developing the game alltogether, by this logic the patreon money shouldn't decrease? You support the people, not the game, right? If I start patreon tomorrow let's see how much money I will get, even though I am a swell guy and need it as much as the devs. Obviously by supporting the patreon of developers you support the development of the game, otherwise they wouldn't have a whole ass screen with thanks to the supporters in-game. And even if you disagree, and think that devs don't owe players anything, why is it entitlement when people complain that the game update takes 16+ months? Should we stop criticising any free products whatsoever by this point? If my instagram app works like shit I will give a low score at the Apple store and write a bad comment, even though it is free.
From my point of view 16 months of development for 2-3 hour update is nuts, and I don't think this point of view is as insane as you are making it out to be. People spend a lot of money to support the development of the game, and get short ai-ass progress reports for months, and the moment they come with questions and complains on the platform to discuss it, they get blasted by everybody as if they said something stupid or wrong. Doesn't make too much sense to me.

It may surprise you, but the patronage mechanism works exactly like that: you're paying the person, not the product. Sure thing, you're paying a person because of their reputation, and with the promise of a future "product": but often, and practically always in the case of modern Patreon, there is no binding contract. Oh, and by the way, this is historically true:

You must be registered to see the links

you can read about Isabella d’Este complaining about Leonardo Da Vinci getting continually distracted and working at a glacial pace.

The issue here is: this discussion is already done to death, and is beyond stale at this point. All the facts are on the plate: on one side, the chapters development time has increased with time, and given the number of female cast members and locations that have been put in the game as a preview, the game development is bound to last a *very* long time, which may lead to project untenability in the long term (because of waning interest from the patrons or, in the worst case, the authors themselves). On the flipside, the authors have been straightforward about their issues and the development process, provide a tracker and frequent updates, and have shown goodwill by refunding patrons. Feel free to interpret facts as you like, but don't be surprised that your interpretation may not be the same as other people's - because after a certain point you're basically trying to mind read MagicNuts' intentions.

Oh, and given all this, trying to convince other people you're right is supremely pointless. It only leads to more bickering and non-factual speculation. In other words, factionalized social media dynamics and discourse at its worst.

 

[Daquarius]

Take all the time you want, honestly, this game has some of the most attractive created female artworks I've seen. Myrtle is Top-Tier Level period, her facial look, her figure, it's simply perfection. Yes, I do hope that their is the ability to make them pregnant, possibly starting a family option if possible (of course we don't want to be limited to just one).

I Know that an option of having a lot of kids in a game would be fun, but please, only one child is more than enough. I don't want faceless golems like in summertime saga that disappear after a few hours in real life

 

[evilman3]

I assume you've never worked yourself and earned any money, and you're probably still living in your parents house with all the commodities and have now family your own? Well, in that case getting almost $100k a year seems to be much, I agree.

lmao. Great assumptions, they couldn't be farther from the truth. When people talk about earnings, I don't know about your country, but in my country, we don't just exclude taxes automatically when talking about annual earnings. 40% tax? Buddy, have you ever done any taxes?

Spain uses a bracket system, the literal highest bracket that €88k would get to is 44% but that only applies to the 60k-120k part of the income. Their average income tax would be around 31% (

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). After social security contribution, they'd end up with around €57,500 net income. This is without any income splitting or having their own corporation that they pay themselves from to reduce their tax rate, since corporate tax rate in Spain seems to be 15% (

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).

The average rent in Spain is about $1k to $1.5k depending on where you live (same source as above). That's another $12k-$18k a year.

Using the average rent of a whole country is ridiculous and probably skews any calculation. Let's use a cost of living estimator. Let's assume they live in the one of the most expensive city in Spain, Barcelona. CoL estimator puts them at €57k (

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), 3 bdrm in city center, so they probably don't live there. A cheaper city like Valencia (€39k,

You must be registered to see the links

) or Malaga (€44k,

You must be registered to see the links

), is pretty livable at that income. With €13-18k savings every year, without accounting for any deferred taxes or investment income.

I'm myself working in IT (software development), and it might take 1-3 years (!) of paid work until a new update is ready!

You're talking like your company doesn't track any progress in terms of PRs, smaller milestones, demos or anything. All we have to go on is these weekly updates. Just do standup meetings every day and nothing to show for it (no PRs or JIRA tickets or demos), see how long they pay you.

So all I'm saying that if they're earning a decent salary working this slowly, why would they ever finish this game. Sure, they might be working 6 days a week but if they're only working 4 hours every day, that's a great life for them!

 

[Friday@Stark]

Next update on?

 

[ScionDayne]

Next update on?

Same time next year?

 

[KingBea]

Weekly report 187

Hi everybody.
I hope you're all doing well and have had a great week.
First, I want to confirm that we will be taking a few days off in the next couple of weeks: December 15th (our older daughter's birthday), December 25th, and January 1st.

Now, the report:
Chestnut:
She worked on redoing the cutscene from the intro of Gomira's update. She did many sketches and a few final panels but told me today that she still hasn't found the style she's looking for. She plans to do something we haven't tried until now: drawing this cutscene using traditional media, and we'll later scan them, clean them up, and add them to the game. To make sure this is indeed the right style before committing to the whole series of images -- it's a longish cutscene -- we'll first do a test with a few artworks). She told me today, half-amusedly, that in 2023 when everybody is using AI generation for their artworks, we're going backward and returning to traditional.

Pistachio:
I mainly focused on posing scenes from Gomira's second quest, and I'm happy to say that we have finally passed the 90% mark (despite adding many extra tasks, as needed). Gomira's story has turned crazier than I had expected since we're adding something to our little world that we had planned to do since the 0.1, and I hope that after the many changes (and I have been changing and editing a lot by going back and forth to improve the overall feel and make sure events make sense) you will like the final outcome. It's noteworthy that when deviating from the initial plan, I always try to make sure we use the completed art (or I will have to sleep on the sofa), but that has not always been possible, meaning that at a certain point (likely after I'm done with the content) Chestnut will have to return to the game, test it, and create new artworks to replace my placeholders.

Next week's plan:
As mentioned above, Chestnut will work on the style of the cutscene from the introductory parts of Gomira's quest, and I will continue editing and posing dialogues; my goal is to reach a specific part of the story by the end of this month.

That's all.
Have a wonderful weekend.
Cheers