What are your thought on use mods in VN games?

[NukaCola]

Use walkthrough/cheats mods seem to be a very popular trend this recent year. Most of popular games on this site have mods like that. Back like 2 year ago. PDF walkthrough is the best you will get and sometime there is none. What are your thought on use mods/cheat in VN games as a players and maybe developers?

Personally I always prefer to play without walkthrough on my first playthrough unless the game is complicated or the choices is not very clear. On my second playthrough I sometime use walkthrough to explorer other route/path quicker.
I never use any mods though because most of the mods I saw is just blatant cheating. One of the thing I like about VN is the choice and consequence. Having a mods that highlight every correct dialogue choice, break the story logic and let you see every character route in one playthrough make it feel like a linear game and taking out the fun of playing a VN. I rather choose blindly and live with the consequences or reload a saves if I want. I'm also a solo kind of guy so I always trying to avoid harem at all cost, sometime to no avail So why would I want to install a mods that let me bang every girls in one playthrough.

For lazy people who just want to see every sex scenes in one playthrough without concerned about the story I guess those mods is useful for them. I just wish they keep the mods related comment to a separate thread. Sometime when I go into a game thread to read about the games but all I see is people comment about technical problem regarding mods. Why my game crashed when I use mods X. Crappy, can you update multi mods to work on version XYZ...etc

And no I'm not anti mods or anything at all. In fact I have like over 300 mods install in my Skyrim and Fallout 4 setup. All kind of nudes mods in RE, Cyberpunk, FF 7 remake...etc. But those mods actually added new content to the game and enhanced your experienced. Most mods for VN is just blatant cheat mods. There add no new render, no new characters, no new sex scenes to the game at all.

unrelated: some random pics I have on my pc so the post won't look like a wall of text

 

[Doorknob22]

My own game has a unique 1:1 combat system and empire management strategic elements. When I released the game about a year ago many people praised the story and art but some people complained about the combat and strategic parts and soon modders appeared in my thread.

When I saw that some people still have problems with those elements in later releases and waited for modders before playing, I decided to add integral "mods" in the game allowing those who don't want to fight to skip combat and those who don't enjoy the strategic elements to (mostly) ignore them.

I realized that different people play my game for different reasons and if people enjoy playing it with some parts removed, why should I object them or feel bitter about it? Let everyone play the game the way they want.

 

[F4C430]

You asked about VN, but these are my thoughts for all games:

1. Mods != Cheats. There's plenty of mods that have nothing to do with cheating. Mods are why i will never accept cloud-based or console gaming. I need to be able to mod my games.
2. Nothing wrong with cheating in single-player games if that's what you want to do. You do you.
3. Nothing wrong with using a walkthrough if that's what you want to do. You do you.

 

[Meaning Less]

Mods != Cheats.

Well, considering the only "gameplay" in most VNs is finding stuff on your own or taking the right decision it's easy to see how walkthrough mods could be labeled as cheating. They can make the game a lot easier in general and almost turn the experience into a kinetic novel instead where you just press the green button.

Personally I prefer when devs just use a hint system instead so you only use it when actually stuck, but in general modding is great because it enables different people to also enjoy games their own way.

 

[morphnet]

I also think it's great when dev's use a hint system however i have also found that some games imply certain things in the story text (not the imgame hint system) "maybe i should go slow with her i did just meet her" and then when you are given the options you are meant to pick "touch her ass" instead of "pay attention to the tv" which makes no sense to me because the game just said to take it slow >.< After 6 or 7 games like that with some of those choices leading to game over i think mods help skip the frustration.

Also some games have a ton of option like mythic manor and the only way to follow the walk through is to book mark each character and then scroll like crazy, you end up spending as much time scrolling as you do playing. Mods help keep track of where you are supposed to be and who likes chocolate and who likes flowers.

Mods just help when people don't always think the same way as the dev and also help keep track of 50 LI over 6 games.

 

[desmosome]

All I need is universal renpy mod to see what kinda variables there are and how the choices generally work for that game. It works on most games without breaking saves or modifying anything.

I think mods that highlight the "correct" choices are really dumb. If there is an unambiguously correct choice for the majority of decisions, it's basically a kinetic novel anyways.

 

[Profound_Madman]

That if you're not careful you can become too reliant on them. Some people are scared to play games thinking they'll miss something without them.

 

[chainedpanda]

Anytime I download a game, I always look for any patches, mods, walkthroughs, codes etc. Without fail.

It's not about missing a scene or two, honestly I couldn't care less. It's more about playing the game how I want to play them and time. I don't have the patience nor time to play the same game over and over again looking for the choices or paths I like more. As a result, bonus points for the modders who bother to explain brief suggestions, note which variables change or give small hints to what larger choices can do later in game.

For example, played a game recently, don't remember the name now. But it had dom/sub/like stats. A specific scene in which you can choose anal or vaginal. Vaginal leads to a pregnancy route but increases the girls sub, while anal has no pregnancy but increased the girls dom over the mc. Plus there are certain events or fetishes I would just prefer to avoid. The mod was a huge help in navigating through that game and allowed me to get the most out of the experience without save scumming, constant roll backs or complete restarts.

 

[morphnet]

oops wrong thread sorry.

 

[Aurelius Ambrosius]

I basically avoid games which DON'T have a walkthrough mod.
My favourite mods are where you see every choice. Generally, the text will say something like: 'choose in any order, you will see all scenes'. I only play a game once, so I want to see all the scenes and all the paths (if possible).

There are some games in which you cannot 'fail' because either all the girls are independent of each other, or because you can retry as many times as you like. Those are fine without a walkthrough mod.

I guess the anxiety of the 'fear of mission out' reduces my fun so much that I always wait for walkthrough mods or simply skip the game. Also, some 'open world' / sandbox games are incredibly annoying. You have to be at a specific spot at a specific time of the day or the week. I HATE those time-wasting trial-and-error games.

Regarding what Doorknob22 said:
I only want to play a mini-game once, and then skip them from then onwards. So THANK YOU for making your game fun for the player!

 

[Gunizz]

I very almost never use mods, and only after playing the game a few times. I have found that often MODS introduce bugs and set all text to "already seen". So you can no more skip unseen text. That breaks the game for me. I usually play without a walkthrough because it's annoying, but I almost always check the variables to see what is going under, if I find myself locked out a path.
I suggest to always back up your saves before installing a MOD.

 

[papel]

There's not much you can mod in a VN, since your options are changing graphics, adding helpful features or changing the text, the latter is basically adding more content.

Let people mod shit however they like it. Let them cheat on their single player games.
Some things to note: there will always be a significant number of people who'll only download to rush and open the gallery; porn games usually aren't as fun to play as typical games; if the vast majority of the players need a walkthrough or guide to get around the game, it's likely that the game needs to be better at pointing what to do.

 

[jamdan]

I see the benefit and fun of modding real games. Like Skyrim and The Sims or whatever else. Those mods typically add new things into the game. More content. Different options etc.

However, mods for these games aren't really useful most of the time. I'm not talking about very minor stuff, like name change "mods" or disabling mini-games or whatever. But WT mods and cheat mods.

WT mods make it easier to find content, but at that point you aren't really playing the game. You're following a guide. And 90% of games are simple enough to play without a WT guiding you around. I don't understand the "fear of missing out" thing. The content isn't going to vanish if you don't find it your first time through. Just...play the game again and pick different options?

Cheat mods are similar, they make the game easier to play. But cheat mods are usually a sign the game itself is too grindy or something similar. Personally, I just use the console if I run into a situation like that. Which pretty much never happens because I don't play grindy sandbox games. Cheat mods in other types of games, like VN's, usually end up breaking something so those are too risky for me to use.

 

[Aurelius Ambrosius]

I don't understand the "fear of missing out" thing. The content isn't going to vanish if you don't find it your first time through. Just...play the game again and pick different options?

I don't have the time to go through the VNs multiple times.

Often times you don't know what you have missed. Even if every decision only allows you to choose between 2 options, and there are n decisions in the game, then there are still potentially 2^n paths. So, 25 decisions means 33'554'432 paths.
Obviously, not every path means a different outcome, but as a player we don't know which decisions matter, and we don't know which combination leads to which outcome.

So, even if you were to play a game 100 times, you may still miss some scenes. Personally, I always read the unabridged versions of books, watch the extended director's cut of movies, and use walkthrough mods for VNs for this very reason.

 

[Meaning Less]

Even if every decision only allows you to choose between 2 options, and there are n decisions in the game, then there are still potentially 2^n paths. So, 25 decisions means 33'554'432 paths.
Obviously, not every path means a different outcome, but as a player we don't know which decisions matter, and we don't know which combination leads to which outcome.

So, even if you were to play a game 100 times, you may still miss some scenes. Personally, I always read the unabridged versions of books, watch the extended director's cut of movies, and use walkthrough mods for VNs for this very reason.

Well I see why you are afraid of playing without walkthrough, somehow you believe vns to be a lot more complex than they actually are...

The issue is that not all vns only have "right choices". But instead different scenes/branches based on your choices, so by using walkthroughs you sometimes will be intentionally missing on stuff that might interest you more but because you didn't even considered picking the non-green option you actually might end up seeing less scenes that way...

I don't have the time to go through the VNs multiple times.

Well in most cases all it takes is a few minutes extra to unlock the missing stuff after you finish the game, the option to "skip all read" messages helps a lot to speed this part up and it is made exactly for this purpose.

But I get it, some people prefer kinetic novels overall so it makes sense to ignore extra stuff as long as they can reach the end without thinking.

 

[demonbra]

I don't have the time to go through the VNs multiple times.

Often times you don't know what you have missed. Even if every decision only allows you to choose between 2 options, and there are n decisions in the game, then there are still potentially 2^n paths. So, 25 decisions means 33'554'432 paths.
Obviously, not every path means a different outcome, but as a player we don't know which decisions matter, and we don't know which combination leads to which outcome.

So, even if you were to play a game 100 times, you may still miss some scenes. Personally, I always read the unabridged versions of books, watch the extended director's cut of movies, and use walkthrough mods for VNs for this very reason.

Well I see why you are afraid of playing without walkthrough, somehow you believe vns to be a lot more complex than they actually are...

The issue is that not all vns only have "right choices". But instead different scenes/branches based on your choices, so by using walkthroughs you sometimes will be intentionally missing on stuff that might interest you more but because you didn't even considered picking the non-green option you actually might end up seeing less scenes that way...

Well in most cases all it takes is a few minutes extra to unlock the missing stuff after you finish the game, the option to "skip all read" messages helps a lot to speed this part up and it is made exactly for this purpose.

But I get it, some people prefer kinetic novels overall so it makes sense to ignore extra stuff as long as they can reach the end without thinking.

While I agree on most of what you both said, I nuance my own thoughts with two things :
- loading/saving X save points to try every possible combination out can barely qualifies as playing a game. I find it as immersive breaking as using a WT.
- Most games don't have a scenario good enough to make me want to play it over and over until I tried everything.
I mean, I played Mass Effect two times, one as Nice Guy Idiot and one as Violent Overactive Moron. I didn't played every nuance possible, like saving the Rachni x Saving Concil x Human Dictatorship x ... .

You can play Skyrim a few times because the gameplay can vary depending on your playstyle, but even so, after a while you get tired of it.

Can we really compare the experience they offer to the average porn VN "gameplay" and "story" ?
I personally don't think so.
I play them once, maybe twice at most. And if I want to see the missed scenes I either look for a WT mod or a gallery unlocker.

 

[Meaning Less]

Can we really compare the experience they offer to the average porn VN "gameplay" and "story" ?
I personally don't think so.
I play them once, maybe twice at most. And if I want to see the missed scenes I either look for a WT mod or a gallery unlocker.

Of course replaying a full game like ME or Skyrim is going to be too much to ask and I would hardly do it because it takes a lot more effort than just making different choices, in those cases I just play them once and do all the side quests I can meanwhile waiting to see what outcome I reached.

But many vns are made to be played more than once (example), they are shorter in general and don't require any effort aside from making different choices but can change the story completely depending on your choices.

I always have a blind initial playthrough to experience the vn as it should be played, and then depending on the quality of the game and how much content I feel like I missed I then enter the exploration mode to find what I might have missed and this process can also be fun and you might stumble upon a lot of extra content that you would never have reached by following the "recommended route" that is usually the only option in many walkthrough mods.

 

[demonbra]

Of course replaying a full game like ME or Skyrim is going to be too much to ask and I would hardly do it because it takes a lot more effort than just making different choices, in those cases I just play them once and do all the side quests I can meanwhile waiting to see what outcome I reached.

But many vns are made to be played more than once (example), they are shorter in general and don't require any effort aside from making different choices but can change the story completely depending on your choices.

I always have a blind initial playthrough to experience the vn as it should be played, and then depending on the quality of the game and how much content I feel like I missed I then enter the exploration mode to find what I might have missed and this process can also be fun and you might stumble upon a lot of extra content that you would never have reached by following the "recommended route" that is usually the only option in many walkthrough mods.

It's funny because I wanted to give exactly this example, but to illustrate another point.
I feel GGGB shares a huge problem with Dog Days Of Summer (I am lot allowed to post link for now, sorry), and it's that you need a fucking WT to achieve what you want. And even then, I couldn't do exactly what I wanted... The branching is so complicated that it's almost impossible to follow. Just take a look at DDoS WT. It's insane !
I believe it's part the reason why it gets so little support, more than being a lesb focused game. (I mean, look at the support that Tale of Andro gets, for a futa and trap game ! two major turnoff for most people)
The main difference is that Good Girl is complex, as a finished product. And Dog Days is a mess although it's far from being finished.
The first once is rich, end enjoyable, but clearly not flow free. The second is messy.

But I digress. What I wanted to point out is that Mods and Save Editor are very useful to compensate bad coding. I would never, never, NEVER have seen half the scenes in GGGB without the gallery unlocker.


I actually played GGGB several times, and enjoyed it. But I think it's an exception. It's 13th place from likes, and second page from views. For a Female Protag game, it's incredibly high.

I don't say our porn VN should have the development team of an AAA, but the quality of most game is not good enough to make us want to play them over and over.

If I feel the Dev is giving stupid decisions, like hidden Game Over, or shit like that, I go for a WT. If I finish the game but don't feel like playing it again but want to see the rest of the art, then I look for a crack or a gallery mod.

But hey, that's just how I do it.

 

[Meaning Less]

But I digress. What I wanted to point out is that Mods and Save Editor are very useful to compensate bad coding. I would never, never, NEVER have seen half the scenes in GGGB without the gallery unlocker.

Again I'm not anti-walkthroughs either, of course you should use them when you are stuck or already finished the game once and so on. It's just the first playthrough with them that is hardly a good idea imo.

You basically start the game with the mentality of the second playthrough already, just worrying about making the right choice without even caring about what any other option is mentioning.

 

[demonbra]

Again I'm not anti-walkthroughs either, of course you should use them when you are stuck or already finished the game once and so on. It's just the first playthrough with them that is hardly a good idea imo.

You basically start the game with the mentality of the second playthrough already, just worrying about making the right choice without even caring about what any other option is mentioning.

I am not charging you with anything.
OP asked us for our opinion on mods, I just wanted to give my own, and develop it a bit.
Maybe I should'nt have quoted you. It's not a personal attack.


But I think it's a real question in gaming in general.

I always hate it when you have to make blind decisions in games, especially when the devs decided of an "optimal" path. I didn't play the Witcher series, but I was told the Devs were way better at making nuanced decisions, were in the end both have bad and good outcomes. That is something VN dev could learn from (but make them a lot less grim of course...).
Some porn Dev understood that, and explain you the consequences of your choices (like banning a character your are not interested in).


It has been ruining game experience for years now, where we can barely play something without knowing half of what is happening. And are constantly teased with the possibility to look for cheats or a WT.


All I wanted to say it that is not just a "I'm afraid of making choices" Vs "I'm a true hardcore gamer and don't need to be hold by the hand" question. Again, I am not attacking anyone, but it's something we often see when someone "dares" to ask for a WT in the comment section.
The problem is complex and leads to important development decisions when creating a game.