paradox really does a great job at random generated content that's creating environments for infinite organic story variations. I've played stellaris for years and it never gets old roleplaying the galaxy.
What do you think about adult VN with sandbox/open world element?
- Thread starter NukaCola
- Start date
- Oct 11, 2018
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Never been a fan of sandbox stuff...but if a game has sandbox stuff well done with not excessive grind for stats/money and quest system is ok for me
Games like Corrupted kingdom , HHG, Oppai Odyssey, Ataegina, Mist or Champion of Realm for example
Mist probably is my favorite sandbox game
Games like Corrupted kingdom , HHG, Oppai Odyssey, Ataegina, Mist or Champion of Realm for example
Mist probably is my favorite sandbox game
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- Apr 14, 2020
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what I was trying to convey is the skillset needed to do what I described. we're talking about things like MAKING daz instead of USING daz. these are all things you'll probably get as weekly excercises in your first couple of years studying graphics engineering, very basic stuff.Woah woah, making an entire engine is most definitely NOT the way to go.
absolutely. but it's just because for some reason people here call rpgs sandboxes, when really there are almost no sandbox porn games. every action allowed in every porn game is strictly pre-written, not sandboxes where you create your own completely new content by playing it.
And every time I bring up this point in an unnecessarily plot heavy game I get replies like "wElL hOw AbOuT yOu WaTcH PoRn InStEaD If YoU jUsT wAnT tO fAp".
Well, I play the different games for different reasons. First of all, I can't even fap to vanilla stuff. It needs to have fucked up shit like corruption, male dom, or non-con themes in general where females are dominated in whatever fashion. I'm not gonna go into games expecting everything to be fappable. If my interest is just porn, I won't find that many games here since vanilla and romance stuff doesn't even register as "porn" to me. I can still enjoy reading a cool story about mafia shit, or some heartfelt romance like it's a chick flick.
If the writing is good, it's worth reading. Elvensang has 0 sex scenes so far, but it's the best fucking writing I've ever seen on this site. It's like reading an actual fantasy novel because the dev is a real wordsmith. Based on the dev's comments, it seems like it will even have corruption elements that I love in the future. The ridiculously well written story will only enhance the payoff once things start going in the direction I find fappable. But this kind of writing is so rare that I would read this regardless of fap content.
Porn vs plot seems like a weird distinction. The stronger the plot and characters, the better the porn gets. I have never skipped through unread text in a game I'm playing. If I am bored enough to skip something, the writing is trash and I will delete it. Besides, what's the point of sex scenes without the context?
Gameplay eroges with fun mechanics and great balancing are played like an actual game. The novelty of having porn in it is just a bonus.
I have 3 broad categories. Gameplay (Real gameplay that is fun to play). Story (plot + characters + writing). Fappability (tags that work for me + good scene writing and set up). I can enjoy games that excel in any of these areas.
All of Black/Anime Lilith's stuff have the highest fappability. 1 out of 3. Chasing Sunsets/BaDIK/CoBD and various of other "top" VNs has a nice story. 1 out of 3. I'm sure Eiyu*Senki will have great gameplay and retarded story + low fappability when I get around to playing this. 1 out of 3, probably.
Love of Magic has great gameplay and great story. 2 out of 3. Pronant Symphony has great gameplay and great story. 2 out of 3. Euphoria has great fappability and great story. 2 out of 3. Leviathan has pretty good gameplay and some fappability. 2 out of 3. All these combinations were enjoyable experiences. I never had to divert brain power into my dick just to fap or something. Porn being at odds with the gameplay/plot is just not something I ever experienced.
Then there is Venus Blood Frontier that has great gameplay, pretty good story, and great fappability with the corruption arcs. Damn I loved that game.
God damnit, why did I write all this shit. It's too long and nobody cares probably lol. Sorry guys.
don't worry, I do the same all the time and most of my walls of text even get deleted before posting because of that.
but it helps to run the whole thing through in your own head, doesn't it? often that's enough.I don't disagree about having a story or even the benefit of late sex creating more tension, those are my favourite things. but the point I'm trying to incoherently make is that joining porn AND plot is one of the most difficult problems in writing, and that's why the whole art of 70s plot porn degenerated into context-free fuck scenes (of which we all here are more or less bored of).
it's just really really hard, because the fundamental point of plot is delaying payoff and teasing, where as the fundamental point of porn is spreading everything open as early as possible. so when you join the two they undermine each other, and it's just very difficult to avoid that even for pro writers.
I get your POV. I guess the point I was trying to make was that not everyone plays these games just to fap, because that would be unreasonable given the differing fetishes everyone has. However, that doesn't mean games that are unfappable for you is not worth a play.don't worry, I do the same all the time and most of my walls of text even get deleted before posting because of that.
I don't disagree about having a story or even the benefit of late sex creating more tension, those are my favourite things. but the point I'm trying to incoherently make is that joining porn AND plot is one of the most difficult problems in writing, and that's why the whole art of 70s plot porn degenerated into context-free fuck scenes (of which we all here are more or less bored of).
it's just really really hard, because the fundamental point of plot is delaying payoff and teasing, where as the fundamental point of porn is spreading everything open as early as possible. so when you join the two they undermine each other, and it's just very difficult to avoid that even for pro writers.
Tying everything back to my initial post, I have a hard time believing anyone can actually fap to a procedurally generated sex scene. Jofur's proof of concept seems very cool, but could this kind of system really create the nuance required to get the blood rushing downward? It might be cool to play around with it for a bit, but meeting random characters for random sex scenes is probably not a game that will keep anyone's interests for too long.
Thus, we need to anchor this system to a greater gameplay system that remains fun to play on it's own. That's the only way people are gonna play a procedural sex game. Continuing the procedural theme, we could do some roguelike gameplay, dungeon crawler, some text based RPG/adventure, crafting, etc etc. Within this context, a procedural sex scene would still be unfappable, I guess, but it would mesh together quite well with the general gameplay.
- May 22, 2018
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I think in general when it comes to more procedural stuff, you need to use it in a way to drive context. Something hand designed will always be better, but hand designing a scene for every situation is just impossible. That's more or less the only reason I love games like Lilith's Throne or modded Skyrim. In a way I'm not fapping to the actual writing or the visuals, I'm fapping to the context behind the scene. I can do something only my perverted mind could think up.
But yes, if your game is not backed up by excellent writing or visuals. You do need the gameplay. A good example is AI Dungeon. It's a degenerates wet-dream that can basically fulfill your every fetish, no matter how depraved, but even then it gets boring pretty fast since there's no gameplay or challenge attached to it. Which is probably why I keep returning to Skyrim even after all these years. It's certainly not the best RPG out there, but it's probably one of the best porn-RPG out there.
- May 22, 2018
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I think in general when it comes to more procedural stuff, you need to use it in a way to drive context. Something hand designed will always be better, but hand designing a scene for every situation is just impossible. That's more or less the only reason I love games like Lilith's Throne or modded Skyrim. In a way I'm not fapping to the actual writing or the visuals, I'm fapping to the context behind the scene. I can do something only my perverted mind could think up.
But yes, if your game is not backed up by excellent writing or visuals. You do need the gameplay. A good example is AI Dungeon. It's a degenerates wet-dream that can basically fulfill your every fetish, no matter how depraved, but even then it gets boring pretty fast since there's no gameplay or challenge attached to it. Which is probably why I keep returning to Skyrim even after all these years. It's certainly not the best RPG out there, but it's probably one of the best porn-RPG out there.
- Sep 30, 2019
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This is actually one of the problems I'm tackling in my visual novel (release soon). In my opinion, the sex has to become a plot tool for the characters to get what they want or need. So first, you introduce the conflict that your story revolves around, then you attempt to use sex to resolve that problem, either directly or indirectly. It's no different than action movies using fights and shootouts to get the main character to come to grips with his own inner conflict. I think story-heavy adult games need to adopt the same story structure that action stories have, as conceptually, action scenes and sex scenes are very similar.
Staying on topic, most sandbox games I've played on here are just deconstructed kinetic novels with extra time wasting steps. I think the only way we can achieve true, interesting sandbox adult games is if we create a framework in which it's easy for people to mod in more paths and choices to build an ever expansive network that's all contained in one game. So, in essence, it's just
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but with the ability to navigate from story to story.
- Jun 19, 2017
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While I tend to agree that quite a few have pretty pointless features, I don't think these are really related to the sandbox. You may aswell just have these features in badly written VNs.
Genrally the sandbox(ish) style is supposed to give the player more options and more characters to engage with. As soon as you go really linear/kinetic, you'll have to make certain compromises in your writing while a sandbox will provide more flexibility.
WaL! is actually a good example. Because it's not really supposed to be a sandbox, they've essentially written a nice romance and meaningful story just to throw quite a bit of it over board again by making that character say that she's of course totally up for joining the harem and doesn't care whether MC fucks like 20 other girls besides her. They basically made all that effort just to kinda damage the mood right away...
But that doesn't mean that there can't be anything else on the market. More story/feature driven games are essentially just the same as actual erotic novels where you spend a good time with them enjoying the lewd mood and the story... that's of course as long the dialogs/features besides the lewd stuff are worth the time.
The problem in most cases is simply that many devs just can't write proper dialogs or a proper plot and as such the story isn't captivating the text gets really boring very quickly.
Once players start skipping text, the whole game essentailly loses its point and one may aswell just download the CGs.
Genrally the sandbox(ish) style is supposed to give the player more options and more characters to engage with. As soon as you go really linear/kinetic, you'll have to make certain compromises in your writing while a sandbox will provide more flexibility.
WaL! is actually a good example. Because it's not really supposed to be a sandbox, they've essentially written a nice romance and meaningful story just to throw quite a bit of it over board again by making that character say that she's of course totally up for joining the harem and doesn't care whether MC fucks like 20 other girls besides her. They basically made all that effort just to kinda damage the mood right away...
To be fair, there's certainly a market for both options. I mean, there are way more than enough very high paced games which are essentailly more or less porn replacements.
But that doesn't mean that there can't be anything else on the market. More story/feature driven games are essentially just the same as actual erotic novels where you spend a good time with them enjoying the lewd mood and the story... that's of course as long the dialogs/features besides the lewd stuff are worth the time.
The problem in most cases is simply that many devs just can't write proper dialogs or a proper plot and as such the story isn't captivating the text gets really boring very quickly.
Once players start skipping text, the whole game essentailly loses its point and one may aswell just download the CGs.
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Yeah I often catch myself coming back to the same conclusion. Unless a dev has the time and resources to produce such immense content, the next easiest thing to do is just create a framework, highly moddable, that everyone can contribute their own stories/quests to. It will take some vigilant management though to make sure nothing breaks and things stay coherent.
I've lost count of how many times I've done that. But to be fair I'm one of those people who think that the "porn" in porn games should be at the center of everything, everything should revolve around it, aiding it, making it better. The plot, the dialogue, the narrative, the characters. As soon as it feels like the game cares more about the story and the porn is like an after-thought I immediately lose all interest. A good example is when games use 36 paragraphs for the context/build-up/some other non-erotic shit, and then 2 lines with 1 picture for the actual scene.
- Jun 19, 2017
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Oh, I didn't really want to encourage that behaviour. Mainly because I think that the actual porn material in these case is pretty much always inferior to actual porn, so I don't really see why someone would bother with a game, when he really just wants porn.
My point was more that the game itself has to be good enough to keep the attention of the average player or at least of those it aims at. If it can't do that, then there are issues to be solved. But sure, if somebody just wants to have a fap, then he probably shouldn't even start games which see themselves more as "games with some lewds in it" and not as "porn with some game elements".
Good Sandbox games aren't that complicated.
They are basically a collectathon, capture or conquer all the sex scenes at your own pace.
As for procedural narrative and stuff, you just need to make it a Strategy Game.
Have an Active AI Opponent of similar agency as the player in the world with a goal that needs to be achieved.
What meaning does procedural sex have? It is ultimately a question of Value.
Whether it is Strategic Value, Combat Value or Score for the Victory Condition.
Why does the player explore, collect resources and crafts items? Because they have some kind of Value as Weapons, Gear or Utility.
How do you make the Player care about a NPCs? Give them some Utility.
And I will tell you the Great Trick. What could be the greatest utility then the controls of the game itself?
What if in CK in order for you to have the ability to assassinate people, you need to fuck the assassin girl?
Partition the Agency of the Player into Roles distributed to Characters.
How can Sex not have meaning if it's your own right hand?
They are basically a collectathon, capture or conquer all the sex scenes at your own pace.
As for procedural narrative and stuff, you just need to make it a Strategy Game.
Have an Active AI Opponent of similar agency as the player in the world with a goal that needs to be achieved.
What meaning does procedural sex have? It is ultimately a question of Value.
Whether it is Strategic Value, Combat Value or Score for the Victory Condition.
Why does the player explore, collect resources and crafts items? Because they have some kind of Value as Weapons, Gear or Utility.
How do you make the Player care about a NPCs? Give them some Utility.
And I will tell you the Great Trick. What could be the greatest utility then the controls of the game itself?
What if in CK in order for you to have the ability to assassinate people, you need to fuck the assassin girl?
Partition the Agency of the Player into Roles distributed to Characters.
How can Sex not have meaning if it's your own right hand?
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- Mar 3, 2018
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I actually do like sandbox games, when they are done well. Problem is that most of them aren't. Most have horrible navigation, pointless things to waste your time, and generally make the game worse, not better. An example of a sandbox I enjoy would be Milfy City and Long Live the Princess.
Both these sandboxes are nicely done, they allow you to persue whatever objective you have in mind and don't waste your time with pointless stuff, like taking a shower every morning or drinking a redbull every 4 hours to keep awake.
However, I strongly prefer having no sandbox to a bad one. A bad sandbox game is almost 100% guaranteed to lose me in the first 10 minutes.
An example of a sandbox I dislike would be Power Vacuum. Because in all ways, this sandbox is merely meant to draw out the playtime. You can't pick and choose which characters to romance or not, because you HAVE to complete all events, in order to proceed to the next chapter. In essence, this might as well just have been a regular visual novel, as the sandbox has 0 effect on the end goal.
Both these sandboxes are nicely done, they allow you to persue whatever objective you have in mind and don't waste your time with pointless stuff, like taking a shower every morning or drinking a redbull every 4 hours to keep awake.
However, I strongly prefer having no sandbox to a bad one. A bad sandbox game is almost 100% guaranteed to lose me in the first 10 minutes.
An example of a sandbox I dislike would be Power Vacuum. Because in all ways, this sandbox is merely meant to draw out the playtime. You can't pick and choose which characters to romance or not, because you HAVE to complete all events, in order to proceed to the next chapter. In essence, this might as well just have been a regular visual novel, as the sandbox has 0 effect on the end goal.
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- Apr 19, 2019
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Hear hear. You can't please everybody, and those who try usually end up pissing everybody off instead.
- Apr 16, 2021
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Personally I tend to prefer a more straightforward experience when it comes to VNs.
An example of a VN I thoroughly enjoyed was Saya no Uta. Intriguing concept, beautiful art, took you on an adventure and kept the choices to a reasonable minimum rather than expending resources on developing routes, areas, or mechanics that could end up being too annoying to bother dealing with over a long playing session.
I suppose as far as VNs go I prefer them short and sweet, and that naturally kind of clashes with the idea of an open-world / sandboxy type mode.
An example of a VN I thoroughly enjoyed was Saya no Uta. Intriguing concept, beautiful art, took you on an adventure and kept the choices to a reasonable minimum rather than expending resources on developing routes, areas, or mechanics that could end up being too annoying to bother dealing with over a long playing session.
I suppose as far as VNs go I prefer them short and sweet, and that naturally kind of clashes with the idea of an open-world / sandboxy type mode.