What happened to constructive criticism?

[Deleted member 603338]

I know that some will disagree with me, but try to look at all criticisms as constructive in some fashion, because people will pick their battles if it means something.

For instance, one of my personal annoyances with a bunch of the games found / shared here is the horrible or spotty English translation for what looks like an otherwise great game.

“I am the cumming” gets hard to read after a while, but it would take far too long to make that complaint on a lot of the games, and I know not everybody uses or speaks English as a first language, or even with a post-high school literacy. So I don’t write those criticisms, because they’re not worth it to me.

On the flip side, being told that this game will have a fetish I look for, and it’s not integrated into the story as was described in the summary, or even in the game at all, makes me question whether the person was being truthful or if they just added the tag to draw in a larger crowd. These games, of which there aren’t very many, I will criticize; the inclusion of a fetish is more important to me.

Getting tons of “this sucks” can be disheartening (especially if it’s the same baseless comment repeated), but it can be a good teacher for what’s wrong as it meant something to somebody. Even if their vocabulary is as stunted as their post size.

I agree 100% with the translation frustrations. Some games I have tried are unplayable because of the google translate dialogue. There are some people on this site that are actually just volunteering their time to help these DEVs with a real translation which is awesome. As far as the missing tags, do you ask the DEV about it? It may be something coming down the road in a future update. I have seen where people go after them instead of first asking the question. I also think that you are right and some put tags to draw players but I do think these are another small percentage, at least from what I have seen. For this "this sucks", I get what you are saying but my point is what sucks? If you are taking the time to write add a few more words, I still do not think that is constructive but at least tell them what sucks, the story, the art, the entire premise.

 

[Deleted member 603338]

Most devs seem to have no problems with constructive criticism. I try to encourage it by responding to people with issues/questions and improve the game for next time.

A character in my game has vitiligo (a skin condition) and I have had multiple people point out that she was ugly. Don't know why they played the game when she is on the banner and the screenshots but whatever.

@tluciotti, was that developer Slonique? They don't come around f95 anymore because of the "trolls" here but they love trashing people's projects in other parts of the net.

It was not Slonique that I commented on, it was another dev that gets bored and abandons games. On another note, I am going to check out your game today and if I have anything constructive to say, I will post it!

 

[Daxter250]

hmm after reading parts here i have the feeling, that devs merely get constructive criticism at all. i for one try my best to be constructive, but such reviews take time writing it. in avarage i waste up to one hour writing a review. people like @Zippity are reviewing almost all games (and they write really useful reviews btw.). it might help if the devs participate beforehand and ask the players with e.g. a lil survey, if they like the game and why (not). chatting with em makes em talk more about the game. answering a review can also be helpful. never forget: you devs want the infos. so both sides have to come together. cause we players merely need big reviews. infos from other players saying the game is shit is often good enough info for us players ^^.

 

[Deleted member 603338]

hmm after reading parts here i have the feeling, that devs merely get constructive criticism at all. i for one try my best to be constructive, but such reviews take time writing it. in avarage i waste up to one hour writing a review. people like @Zippity are reviewing almost all games (and they write really useful reviews btw.). it might help if the devs participate beforehand and ask the players with e.g. a lil survey, if the like the game and why (not). chatting with em makes em talk more about the game. answering a review can also be helpful. never forget: you devs want the infos. so both sides have to come together. cause we players merely need big reviews. infos from other players saying the game is shit is often good enough info for us players ^^.

My problem is, how many games have you been on where every comment said the game was shit, a lot of the time for every person that says it is shit someone else says they like it so you either try it for yourself or you don't. If all the people that said it was shit just said why it was shit by adding a few more words then you can see if everyone thinks it is shit for the same reason and the dev may be able to do something with that. I am also not saying that everyone needs to write a novella as a review positive or negative, just pushing for there to be something useful in the statement

 

[Daxter250]

My problem is, how many games have you been on where every comment said the game was shit, a lot of the time for every person that says it is shit someone else says they like it so you either try it for yourself or you don't. If all the people that said it was shit just said why it was shit by adding a few more words then you can see if everyone thinks it is shit for the same reason and the dev may be able to do something with that. I am also not saying that everyone needs to write a novella as a review positive or negative, just pushing for there to be something useful in the statement

sure it sucks as a dev reading "its shit" without any reasons as why it is shit. but ya know... maybe that comment wasn't meant for the dev rather than for other players to stay away from the game (even if it is brutally short, i know i know)?
apart from that we know that so many people are short minded and will just blurt out a few words and then go on. i think one dev here already mentioned it that asking 'em why is often a good way to get more words out of em ^^.

 

[Xalenda]

... For this "this sucks", I get what you are saying but my point is what sucks? If you are taking the time to write add a few more words, I still do not think that is constructive but at least tell them what sucks, the story, the art, the entire premise.

I agree with you, they should write more. But if you get enough people saying it, you have to look at your game objectively and from the perspective of someone who hasn’t been there since the inception (BWAAAAAAHHHH).

 

[Vanaduke]

Ahh, there's always that one kid with thousands of incoherent posts constructed with incomprehensible, broken English in each game thread. They can't provide constructive feedback with their elementary vocabulary, that's why they're consistently whining and ranting on a game they can't afford to support.

 

[vir_cotto]

There are some games (and devs) I relly don't have anything good to say about.
If I think devs are muggers - like certain crew "developing" game for over two years - or story is illogical nonsense - I'll say that.

What I won't do is giving a one-star rating in a review.

 

[Tarasia]

I'll be that other guy, this game is shit. Needs more and better renders Kappa.

Sometimes i feel like posting other times i don't, however when i post constructive/positive/negative critism with actual pointers on why, it usually feels not listened to cause i am a pirate/freeuser so at some points i am going to ask myself: Shall i make a long assed post on what i think is wrong or shall i just post "it's shit". The answer on that question is if i see at that time potential for the game. Great story, shitty art? I feel to suggest on finding a artist/partner. Great renders shitty story; i'll point out what doesn't make sense. Edited your story to comply to Patreons rules; i call "greedy sellout", cause i got a age when sexgames were free in the past and they only needed a donate button instead of a huge ass unneeded platform like Patreon.
You're a dev with great renders, but 5 unfinished projects on your sheet; i'll call that out as well.

Conclusion: you see me posting a freaking long ass post with does and don'ts believe me you got me with your game. I am interested i am hooked, just need to pull me in. You see me post 3 words; try different bait.

 

[Gomly1980]

Replying generically to a couple posts on here. I read that some people feel that the DEVs only listen to their top money givers and for some,

The problem with some people here and that is they think every developer comes here, they don't.

So in that regard those devs will only listen to the people giving them money because they are the only people they interact with.

The other thing is, this is a pirate site. Devs aren't exactly inclined to listen to people stealing their work.

 

[Xalenda]

If you’ve got a story to tell or renders you feel proud of, share it and see what people here think. Once you’ve grasped or increased your abilities, that’s when I’d consider asking for more detailed criticisms.

 

[Deleted member 603338]

The problem with some people here and that is they think every developer comes here, they don't.

So in that regard those devs will only listen to the people giving them money because they are the only people they interact with.

The other thing is, this is a pirate site. Devs aren't exactly inclined to listen to people stealing their work.

I see a lot of devs on here and every game that I play and have seen they have a public release within a couple weeks so the people that get it on here are going to get it at some point. Some devs do give their supporters extra which gets on here for free but I would also bet that a large portion of their supporters came from here anyway. This is the place were most people find out about most of these games. There will always be people that just came here to take for free but there will also always be those that use this to find games and will continue to support those that they enjoy.

 

[Nightcrawler]

What happened to constructive critisism ?

A lot of people with their own inflated ego's.
A lot of people that jump on threads to laud the virtues of NTR /and Incest.
And of course your friendly trolls that will trash a game Dev just to get a response.

Alas their are many that fall into these catagories .

The Important part is people that do critique games the good the bad bad and the ugly should carry on doing so and hold their heads up high. As i for one when looking at a game will trawl through the trash posts to find the honest critique and form an opinion of wether to download from that

 

[Agent HK47]

I am one of the people who tries to represent both the good and bad sides of a game when I give feedback on them, and I very rarely just bash away at a game, without giving a reason for it. Criticism is important, but so is doing it in a productive way, so that your information can actually be translated into real game improvements. If we all just rage without reason, then what do we gain?
The guy who flames doesn't gain anything, cause he is not satisfied with the game and due to not telling what need to be fixed, he won't see any improvements. The developer doesn't gain anything, cause he doesn't know which aspect of the game is lacking, and now he likely feels disheartened and less sure of his work going forward. The fans of the game gains nothing, because their praise for the dev is less likely to be weighed as heavily as the aforementioned guy, who just rains negative comments. This might make the dev change the game in ways that didnt need changing and could end up making the game worse.

In short, if you want to see change, explain what exactly needs to changed, not just that change is needed. And try to do so in a somewhat civilized manner.

 

[anne O'nymous]

What is a useful critique? Often the issue is a matter of dev needing to spend a few years learning a talent so they could make a playable game, there is no constructive way to say that.

I disagree, there's constructive way to say that :
"I don't know what to say about your game. It can have potential, I don't know and, more than that, I can't know because of your lack of knowledge/talent on coding/writing/CG/other. You should probably forget about making a full game, or at least an ambitious game, for now ; or perhaps forget about making [this part] by yourself. Just the time for you to learn the skill(s) you still need to learn, and so have the possibility to let us judge of your real potential on the other subjects."
And in the worse case :
"Sorry, but your game miss everything. You aren't a good coder, your CG are lifeless and the story is boring. But hey ! It don't mean that you are shit, just that you aren't good at making a game. It's not the end of the world, it's the case of most of the people around there, and still all of them are good at something else. Just don't waste your time trying to make a game, use it to found what you are really good at, it will make you happy in the end, more than trying to make a game that so many people dislike."

If you can't say something in a constructive way, most of the time it's because you haven't tried enough. Sometimes it don't worth the time you need to say it in a constructive way, but when it happen, just say nothing. If it's really because of the game/author and not just because of your own taste, there will be someone who'll found the words to say it for you.

 

[baneini]

"I don't know what to say about your game. It can have potential, I don't know and, more than that, I can't know because of your lack of knowledge/talent on coding/writing/CG/other. You should probably forget about making a full game, or at least an ambitious game, for now ; or perhaps forget about making [this part] by yourself. Just the time for you to learn the skill(s) you still need to learn, and so have the possibility to let us judge of your real potential on the other subjects."

Alternatively: "You should learn [skill] and then make a game"
Thats the core message which is buried under a pile of pointless politeness. But in either case it's not constructive criticism of a game:

"A recommended set of instructions that aims to collaboratively improve the overall quality of a product or service. Often containing helpful and specific suggestions for positive change, constructive criticism is highly focused on a particular issue or set of issues, as opposed to providing general feedback on the item or organization as a whole."

When you decide a product is bad to the point of not worth improving due to severe issues it has the useful critiques transform into something like life advice to a person or business advice.
"how about you learn a new language, like English?"
"how about forming a business allegiance with someone who speaks English"
"how about you stop drinking so much, it's not good for you health"
These sentences don't belong in a critique about a game.

 

[Thundorn]

Defining what is constructive and what isn't is no easy task. Every critique is subjective anyway since what one person loves, others may hate. What some might think is helpful to others might come across as condescending and so on.

To be honest I would rather have someone write a 5 line rant than a 5 page essay on my game since, I don't have time to read it and more often than not the two contain the same information.

Granted "This sucks" helps nobody but as has already been pointed out, there will always be those people no matter how good the game really is.

Most people tend to think that their opinion is the most important and gets frustrated when they think that they aren't being listened to. The way I see it is this: I will write my games how I see fit. If people want to write critique that is their prerogative, I will read as many as I can and if there is anything useful in there I will take it onboard but I am under no obligation to do anything if i so choose, no matter how nicely they worded it.

 

[Vanaduke]

Problem is there are kids out there spamming nothing else but how he hates the game or the developer. They can't construct anything coherent nor write a paragraph with proper punctuation. Worst of all, they condemn patrons who supports their developer they loathe calling them idiots and they're pirates! They can't afford anything, they're leeching free games in these forums and they have the audacity to call patrons and developers stupid.

 

[Gomly1980]

they're leeching free games in these forums

That is this sites purpose.

There are people that delude themselves into thinking it's a dev showcase site but it is a piracy site. That's what it was started for and that's what we came here for.

 

[gunderson]

This seems like another in a long line of special exceptions people want from this site based on their own needs/wants.

"Sure it's a game piracy site," but people should pay for their Daz3D models (because for some reason 3D modelers need to eat but game devs don't)!

"Sure it's a game piracy site," but people should fund MY game! (assuming you're ignoring all the other games on the site also being pirated. I've got no special beef with people annoyed by the sheer fact of piracy).

"Sure it's a game piracy site," but why are they asking for walkthroughs/save files?

"Sure it's a game piracy site," but why did the dev behind some game decide to include a fetish I don't like?

Well, now it's: "Sure it's a game piracy site," but why aren't all forumgoers painstakingly going through each game they play and giving a detailed review with constructive, carefully worded professional advice for the dev?

Answer: because it's first and foremost a video game piracy site. Sometimes people also decide to fund your game. Sometimes people buy rather than steal a Daz3D model. Sometimes they provide walkthroughs/saves. Sometimes they give good constructive feedback. But nobody's dropping the ball if they just download a game, try it, then say it sucked and go try to find something they like better. Because that is what the fucking site is for!