What is an acceptable length of time between updates ?

SliveEmerald

Newbie
Sep 22, 2020
47
38
This is a question I've thought about a fair bit myself and I don't think there is a clear answer because it depends on a variety of factors.

First, how much money are they pulling in? A dev making enough from their game to do it full time I expect larger and faster updates and honestly this is often not the case especially with some devs with a massive amount of support who genuinely seem to be milking their patrons. A smaller dev I expect them to be working on the game part time and I have more lax expectations from them.

Secondly, there are some games I'm invested in where I'm willing to wait longer for a great update but it kinda depends on how difficult I believe it is to add content to the game. A renpy VN is easier to make content for than UE4, I don't think most people would argue with that. VN's in general usually lack gameplay elements and would be even faster to make so it comes back to whether or not I think this dev is trying to milk their supporters, especially when I see 5+ months between updates for these games.

Third, is the art 3dcg or 2d drawn. Drawn art takes way longer to make and sadly I think 2d art games are slowly falling off in terms of popularity because they can't keep up with the demand in a lot of cases and thus have slower and smaller updates than 3dcg games which are considerably easier to produce art for.

One more thing I want to add when it comes to small teams (3-4 people roughly). Generally, these teams split responsibilities along the lines of their expertise, the programmers code, the writers write and the artists make art. I think in many cases for teams like this (not all) at least one person drags their feet, or simply isn't able to keep up. And whatever leadership these groups have are unable or unwilling to make difficult decisions for the team (like firing someone) because they aren't experienced in managing people or worse yet, everyone is an equal partner and there isn't a leadership structure. As an outside person I can only speculate, but I think this is what is happening in both Summertime Saga (Darkcookie) and Wildlife (Adeptussteve) developments. Both games have a huge following and at least Summertime Saga is actually pretty good, but dev times are insanely long with very little content in each update which can probably be chalked up to inexperienced leadership.

This gets worse if your 2d artist suddenly has real life obligations and can't devote much time to development when your game is a year or more into development and half way done. Do you slow down significantly to accommodate this person or do you replace them? Can you even replace them? Your game has had a specific art style for most of development, all of your followers like this style of art. Is this person even possible to replace in this case? It gets muddy, quickly.

If I had to put a direct number on it, 1-3 months is ideal, anything less and it probably doesn't have too much new content and anything more and I'm wondering what the dev is doing with their time.
 
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Carpe Stultus

Engaged Member
Sep 30, 2018
3,402
8,845
It on a lot of things of what is a acceptable time.

1: How is the quality of the renders? The better the quality the longer it takes.

2: What hardware has the dev? The weaker the hardware the longer it takes, especially if the renders are really high quality.

3: Does the dev work on his game as a main job or as hobby and how much does he earn with the game overall?

4: How complex is the game in general? Normal VN's aren't as complex and there shouldn't be as many bugs to fix.

5: How big are the updates? If a dev throws out thousands of renders and several animations, it will take time.

6: How does a dev make his visuals? If a dev uses Illusion products like HS he is able to throw out updates way faster and way bigger in size than dev's who use DAZ and so on because they don't have any rendertime, so basically most devs who use Illusion products don't even spend half of the time, between updates, as devs that use DAZ, Blender or whatever.

So overall there are a lot of factors to take into consideration when it comes to how long a acceptable time between updates is. Of course there are several blacksheep among devs, but its not that the biggest part of the devs try to milk their patrons.

RanliLabz stop wasting time on F95 go back to work!!! *lets the whip crack* :ROFLMAO:
 

Nottravis

Sci-fi Smutress
Donor
Game Developer
Jun 3, 2017
5,132
27,266
I think this is a really interesting question - I wish I knew the answer!

Ideally I'd update monthly. God, I'd love that so much but frankly I've no idea how that would be possible to do a complete chapter of H5 in that time even if I had more than the one machine.

Chapter Three, with all the bonus content, is some 60,000 words, 19,000 lines of code, two combat mechanics, a rudimentary AI for one character, hidden content and puzzles, a pretty decent fully animated strip game, 1,600 still renders, over 8,000 animation renders and has over sixty paths available to the player as one of four characters, all of whom have different paths in addition to the "base" sixty.

Now that's not meant to be a "look at what I did!" type remark, it's more to underline that something like that - if made as a complete chapter - just can't be made in a month by a solo dev. I doubt it could be done with a team either tbh, unless it was both large and well organised. We've also touched on testing a little in this thread and even with five testers I find that process can take weeks as multiple paths are played and checked (and ofc as images and bugs get corrected!).

So I dunno. I suppose one solution would be to release something every month. Not aim for complete chapters and instead release them in parts as they are ready to be shipped but again you are staring down the barrel of complexity a little due to some of the interdependencies of the code. Or perhaps even drop animations and rely more on stills - but that would seem to be taking away from the game overall.

So, yes, with monthly subscriptions/donations I think ideally updates should be monthly - but I'm damned if I know how to make that happen.



I expect it's those GPU-intensive sci-fi backgrounds that are grinding our machines to death :LOL:)
I suspect you're right! :) Although it also helps if you repair the bloody thing properly the first time ofc!
 

DuniX

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2016
1,169
772
What is more important I think is an Update to have a Satisfying amount of content that people can play each Update and have a good end point to stop at.
Too frequent updates I don't think is that good of an idea, since you will see just how little is being developed and you will not be in a state to be satisfied.
Although I would consider projects with 4+ months to be abandoned so there is danger to that. You might at least release what you have just to show you still have a pulse.
So 3 months at the maximum should be the ideal target.

Even more important is if you are story heavy, is to have good pacing to your story. You should plan to finish the main story in about a year.
Cut Down on the stupid renders that aren't Sex Scenes or aren't that important, use Sprites and use Backgrounds that can be reusable.
A Japanese Visual Novel can get by with about 30-50 unique CG Scenes. They are also fucking Finished Games.
Rendering is supposed to make things easier than drawing once you learn to use your tools properly.
If you are going for story don't let me die of old age before its complete.
 

ihl86

Member
Dec 8, 2019
363
1,294
I didn't read all the posts so I don't know if this was mentioned but developers also need to recover what they invested in the game in the first place.
For Daz renders for examples, if they didn't illegally download what they used in their game, that could also be a considerable amount of money. Maybe also the PC they are using was bought especially for rendering.
What I am saying is that I think the first few months of a game making money could be going towards that more than towards reinvesting it directly into the game again.
Also, if they at some point drop their job and decide to do this full time, depending on the country they live in, that could mean they would want/need a few thousand dollars as their salary. So only what would go over that could be reinvested into more hardware/outside help.
 

lazychicken

Member
Apr 17, 2017
309
130
I just going to add my small two cents of opinion is that if the model and asset are ready such as Honey Select or Daz Render then I would like if it can update within 1-2 months cause they just need to make sure rendering and make the story to flow. If they take longer than that I will expected a little bit more fancy result such as animation or some good writing mix with humor.

However like someone mention early, if the devs take this as hobby and side jobs then I am okay with longer time update as long as the dev show proper map of work being done.

But if devs who go in full time and just said they works on it again and again without evidence then I may consider pull the plug of support.