whats the deal with NTR? why is it so hated?

[kamiyadoriowl]

so, i understand the points of cheating, what is disliked by many. but "loosing" is almost not possible in virtual novels. its more a book with pictures, not a game where u win or loose.

also...if the NC is in a voyeur scene, thats for the most ntr too? why? i mean incest is here very popular i think. so why are all crying if there is a scene where the MC is watching is sister/neighbour whatever with an other guy?

or...another very common storyline:
dad/family/job whatever is gone, mc is bankrupt. why is it NTR if MC discovers that his girflfriend/wife/sister blahblah goes dancing or prostitute to get money? the winning would be in this case to get money so they can quit theire job.


in my opinion this gives most stories a better background. i dont like games where the harem-style is total
exaggerated. that makes the story very plain and uninteresting. i mean, where is the fun when u dont have to fight a little to get the girls?

sry about my bad english. i hope i could explain what i mean

 

[Icarus Media]

Because people probably got cheated on and now can't separate what happened in real life from the fictional stories, they get too attached and heavily invested in it rather than detaching and treating it like a story.

If I read 'Lady Chatterley's Lover' I don't feel 'cucked' because I know I'm not the nobleman of the story whose wife gets fucked by a peasant worker, I am a person observing these events i.e. reading a book. You would no doubt think it absurd for someone to become extremely angry and emotional, throwing the book and smashing things simply by reading some words on a page and yet...here we are.

It's the same issue of trying to understand cucks vs the people that rage and hate it, it's a matter of:

1) Do they observe the material clinically and detached, enjoying the art for what it is or do they attach themselves and identify AS a character?
2) If they identify and attach to a character, which one? And Why?

The solution for both sides? Stop identifying and tying in fictional art to yourselves. Enjoy the artistic work for the work that it is.

 

[Iexist]

Y'know... This is actually something of a good question.

Why is NTR so hated?

You may wonder, "why would anyone think this is a good question with all the NTR threads/debates/whatever flying around"?

Well, for that, I have to first say that I've been on the Internet since before VNDB and its current definitions, hell, before e-hentai and its massive galleries. I remember the times when getting doujins online was a matter of someone taking pity and scanning them, with those clunky scanners of old, which basically required you to destroy physical media. (You still need to do that for high quality scans, but that's besides the point.) NTR isn't a new thing, it predates the current modern definitions and it's why I get nitpicky over the definitions and whatnot...

However, what has been constant about it is that, even as it rose in popularity, it also drew an incredible amount of hatred. I have legit not seen any fetish attract as much hatred as NTR. Not rape. Not guro. Not loli. NTR media is generally consistently what ends up with the most absurd comment sections/threads/whatever and attracts the most vocal haters of any fetish I've ever sampled (and I've sampled a lot over the years... I don't call myself an equal opportunity pervert for no reason...)

I've never been able to understand why. I imagine part of it is because of the broadening of the fetish. NTR is supposed to be distinct from "just cheating", even in Japanese they have other words for general infidelity. But even before everyone who gets up in arms about "another guy just looking at their girl" started calling the smallest thing NTR, it attracted some really vocal haters and people that found the fetish utterly abhorrent. Even in the most ridiculous and unrealistic incarnations.

Like. If you're a guy, and have a hot-girlfriend, the chance exists that she'll be assaulted, raped and even murdered. But the odds that she'll become addicted to her rapist's dick is pretty much non-existent. While this specific example is extreme, it, tbh, applies to most incarnations of the fetish. Even if you want to reduce the fetish to "just cheating", cheating in reality rarely happens "just because", people and relationships are not that simple... and if it does, congrats, you ran into a nympho, somehow didn't realize she's a nympho, and fucked around and found out why dating a nympho is generally not good thing no matter what most guys like to think.

So I dunno. Why hate this fetish so much?

I have no idea. It's weird. It's like some deep, irrational hatred of this fetish is deeply seated in some people's minds, and it's more common than with any other fetish that might attract scorn. How it's more hated than rape, I have no idea. That I could understand. Rape, IRL, is horrible, it happens all over the world, it causes all sorts of trauma, it's sometimes worse than outright murder in its end results.

But no, most perverts are perfectly ok with rape. NTR though? Here come the torches and pitch-forks...

 

[suspiciousriceeater]

NTR though? Here come the torches and pitch-forks...

As someone who hates NTR, I'd assume that the biggest reason for people hating it is the fact that people like to self-insert into games' MCs. Anyone who's experienced love in their life knows the possessiveness that comes with it. My guess is that people feel like their ACTUAL girlfriend is ACTUALLY getting taken away from them (even though most of the lads here don't have such a thing), in other words they're getting cucked.

How it's more hated than rape, I have no idea. That I could understand. Rape, IRL, is horrible, it happens all over the world, it causes all sorts of trauma, it's sometimes worse than outright murder in its end results.

The answer is really fucking simple: people don't care about a problem unless it has something to do with them. Raping someone is okay because it doesn't harm the person doing it, only causes harm. Getting cucked causes harm (e.g. mental distress) to the person so it has something to do with them.

That said, it's pretty normal for people to hate NTR in my opinion. Nobody (under normal circumstances) wants to lose their loved one to some weird ugly bastard who she loves for some reason. It's a matter of your pride, and NTR games in which the player self-inserts themselves into the MC causes said pride to be trampled upon. That's the explanation. Nobody wants to be emasculated or humiliated (again, under NORMAL circumstances.) and that's why they hate NTR.

 

[Yicdeh]

Because people probably got cheated on and now can't separate what happened in real life from the fictional stories, they get too attached and heavily invested in it rather than detaching and treating it like a story.

If I read 'Lady Chatterley's Lover' I don't feel 'cucked' because I know I'm not the nobleman of the story whose wife gets fucked by a peasant worker, I am a person observing these events i.e. reading a book. You would no doubt think it absurd for someone to become extremely angry and emotional, throwing the book and smashing things simply by reading some words on a page and yet...here we are.

It's the same issue of trying to understand cucks vs the people that rage and hate it, it's a matter of:

1) Do they observe the material clinically and detached, enjoying the art for what it is or do they attach themselves and identify AS a character?
2) If they identify and attach to a character, which one? And Why?

The solution for both sides? Stop identifying and tying in fictional art to yourselves. Enjoy the artistic work for the work that it is.

You hit the nail on the head for me, but I disagree with your solution. You (I am using You in a bit of a royal way here) let me name the MC, makes choices for himself, invest in the character, therefore you have made the character to be my stand in. You have designed the character to be a self-insert. You wrote and engaging story and I engaged. So I feel the feelings of loss and betrayal. I don't care for those feelings and I can't disconnect from them because the story was written to have me engage in them. If the story is constant 3rd person and a kinetic novel, yea I don't feel those feelings anymore. I can enjoy the story. Use the word "I" and your whole solution goes down the drain. If I disconnect from the story I am doing a disservice to the author who clearly wrote it with the intent of me feeling those feelings. Half the fun of self insert and choices is that I feel more attached to the story, it's the main purpose of first person writing.

 

[Iexist]

people like to self-insert into games' MCs

The problem with this is two-fold. One, it's impossible to get an accurate statistic on how many people like to self-insert in games. Are there really that many people that self-insert and which are that vocal and who have nothing better to do than to bitch about a fetish that they don't like?

Two, the hatred of NTR is more universal than just games. You can't really self-insert in a manga or animation or any other 3rd person perspective media... and yet comment sections and whatnot for such media still attracts the same kind of hatred. This is even accounting for such media that's clearly not meant to have the cuck in a sympathetic light and it's more meant for the haters of said cuck (for an example anyone today is likely to recognize, SAO NTR doujins, which are clearly meant for Kirito's haters more than anything else).

Raping someone is okay because it doesn't harm the person doing it, only causes harm.

I suppose I can understand this from the "self-insert" angle... but in the "what could happen in reality" angle... it's still far more likely that one's girl-friend will be raped than that she'll fall in love with some random UB's/BBC's/Sadistic-shota's dick and end up sending her one-time BF a video that concludes with an ahegao with peace-signs. Or any other number of typical NTR silliness.

Well, I suppose if the person is a total coward and counts BSS as NTR, that could happen in reality... But if that's the person's fear, they have bigger problems than their dick size or their ability to have sex or lack thereof...

Nobody wants to be emasculated or humiliated (again, under NORMAL circumstances.)

Again, this assumes the self-insert angle. However, as mentioned before, I've seen this happen over the years with all forms of media. Hell, it happens with FMC games that are focused on the NTR fetish, games where a male player can't self insert, and you still see the phenomenon.

All that to say, I don't think it's that simple. I don't think it's just people that self insert. If that were the case, the hatred wouldn't be as widespread or universal. It wouldn't draw so many vocal people. It wouldn't cause so many kink-shaming incidents that go above and beyond any other fetish.

I get it that there's always going to be people that think that just because they don't like something, no one should like that thing and that everyone who does is a horrible person or whatever. However, it definitely seems like there's something about NTR that caused a lot more people than normal to throw sanity out the window. It's bizarre.

Of course, I will add that I might just be seeing things. It's not like I've conducted an in-depth study about various fetishes and their hatred. Such a thing would be extremely difficult to do with any level of accuracy given the subject matter... So it's possible that it's just my perspective and the perspective of other people who had the same impression over the years. Right now, there's no factual way to say for sure if NTR is genuinely more hated than any other fetish.

 

[Dmoll]

Nobody likes being a cuck bro, no average self respecting man.

 

[Yicdeh]

The problem with this is two-fold. One, it's impossible to get an accurate statistic on how many people like to self-insert in games. Are there really that many people that self-insert and which are that vocal and who have nothing better to do than to bitch about a fetish that they don't like?

Two, the hatred of NTR is more universal than just games. You can't really self-insert in a manga or animation or any other 3rd person perspective media... and yet comment sections and whatnot for such media still attracts the same kind of hatred. This is even accounting for such media that's clearly not meant to have the cuck in a sympathetic light and it's more meant for the haters of said cuck (for an example anyone today is likely to recognize, SAO NTR doujins, which are clearly meant for Kirito's haters more than anything else).



I suppose I can understand this from the "self-insert" angle... but in the "what could happen in reality" angle... it's still far more likely that one's girl-friend will be raped than that she'll fall in love with some random UB's/BBC's/Sadistic-shota's dick and end up sending her one-time BF a video that concludes with an ahegao with peace-signs. Or any other number of typical NTR silliness.

Well, I suppose if the person is a total coward and counts BSS as NTR, that could happen in reality... But if that's the person's fear, they have bigger problems than their dick size or their ability to have sex or lack thereof...



Again, this assumes the self-insert angle. However, as mentioned before, I've seen this happen over the years with all forms of media. Hell, it happens with FMC games that are focused on the NTR fetish, games where a male player can't self insert, and you still see the phenomenon.

All that to say, I don't think it's that simple. I don't think it's just people that self insert. If that were the case, the hatred wouldn't be as widespread or universal. It wouldn't draw so many vocal people. It wouldn't cause so many kink-shaming incidents that go above and beyond any other fetish.

I get it that there's always going to be people that think that just because they don't like something, no one should like that thing and that everyone who does is a horrible person or whatever. However, it definitely seems like there's something about NTR that caused a lot more people than normal to throw sanity out the window. It's bizarre.

Of course, I will add that I might just be seeing things. It's not like I've conducted an in-depth study about various fetishes and their hatred. Such a thing would be extremely difficult to do with any level of accuracy given the subject matter... So it's possible that it's just my perspective and the perspective of other people who had the same impression over the years. Right now, there's no factual way to say for sure if NTR is genuinely more hated than any other fetish.

I do think the self insert thing is way more widespread then you are assuming it is. Most people, when a story uses "I" statements self-insert. The main purpose of this form of writing is to make people connect to the character. "I" makes it feel like YOU have made the choices, YOU are the one these things are happening to. Add in the VN ability to make choices and now it feels like you have actively caused your own downfall. Your choices have made it so your LI has cheated on you. The better the writing the harder it is to disconnect from that feeling.

 

[SinisterPortal]

As someone who hates NTR, I'd assume that the biggest reason for people hating it is the fact that people like to self-insert into games' MCs. Anyone who's experienced love in their life knows the possessiveness that comes with it. My guess is that people feel like their ACTUAL girlfriend is ACTUALLY getting taken away from them (even though most of the lads here don't have such a thing), in other words they're getting cucked.

I wouldn't mind NTR if the protagonist deserved what came to him, but usually it's a nice guy that sincerely loves his gf (and she loves him) and no one deserves what happens to them. It's like seeing videos of somebody torturing and killing cats - you don't self-insert as the cat but you still feel terrible seeing an innocent creature being tortured. Dunno, it's just normal moral reaction IMO, psychologically healthy people don't like to see other people or even animals being tormented for no reason.

Another reason for NTR hate is bullshit logic in its stories. There's notorious porn logic, and there's NTR logic - and it is miles worse than porn logic. Often in NTR characters behave like absolute morons, not doing the obvious thing that would easily let them avoid the NTR situation.

 

[agelastos]

I wouldn't mind NTR if the protagonist deserved what came to him, but usually it's a nice guy that sincerely loves his gf (and she loves him) and no one deserves what happens to them. It's like seeing videos of somebody torturing and killing cats - you don't self-insert as the cat but you still feel terrible seeing an innocent creature being tortured. Dunno, it's just normal moral reaction IMO, psychologically healthy people don't like to see other people or even animals being tormented for no reason.

How do you feel about tragedies? As in the genre of drama, not real-life tragic events. I get feeling bad for the protagonist in a tragedy, but I don't get hating all tragedies because they make you feel bad. At least not hating them to such a degree that I'd want to ban the entire genre, or feel the need to complain about it online.

 

[kamiyadoriowl]

Nobody likes being a cuck bro, no average self respecting man.

but thats just ONE aspect of NTR. its a form. what about swinger? voyeurism? open relationship? but i think that the NTR "haters" only see black and white.

edit:

oh...and very funny...male MC can have sex with every other girl, then hes a great lover, but if a female does it...shes a bitch, whore or whatever?! oO dunno how to write the english word for that...hypo...something like that i think

 

[Dmoll]

but thats just ONE aspect of NTR. its a form. what about swinger? voyeurism? open relationship? but i think that the NTR "haters" only see black and white.

NTR is bad bruh, its baaad, it gives you the worst post nut clarity ever bruh like, you feel like absolute SHIT afterwards. Like you wanna kill yourself for orgasming to that morbid shit. But about swinger, voyeurism, open relationship? They arent that cuck-y depending on the situation and your mindset, but they also have the potential for NTR, and cuckoldry is the main fetish that you must avoid contracting.

 

[SinisterPortal]

How do you feel about tragedies? As in the genre of drama, not real-life tragic events. I get feeling bad for the protagonist in a tragedy, but I don't get hating all tragedies because they make you feel bad. At least not hating them to the degree of wanting to ban the entire genre, or feeling the need to complain about it online.

Depends, it's a very wide genre, from Shakespearean tragedy to Russian realism and beyond. Yet, most tragedy lit doesn't feel like torture, it's sad, tragic stories, but there are high moments as well, they usually are not all-dark and the struggles of the characters invoke phylosophical thoughts rather than pain in you.

 

[LickNipMcSkip]

certified NTR hater here, two reasons

1. Half of NTR games are written like ass where the protagonist is a complete spineless pushover who I'm surprised ever learned to walk because he clearly can't stand. I like it when everyone in the game is having fun too.
2. I ain't no homewrecker.

 

[suspiciousriceeater]

Of course, I will add that I might just be seeing things. It's not like I've conducted an in-depth study about various fetishes and their hatred. Such a thing would be extremely difficult to do with any level of accuracy given the subject matter... So it's possible that it's just my perspective and the perspective of other people who had the same impression over the years. Right now, there's no factual way to say for sure if NTR is genuinely more hated than any other fetish.

NTR is unorthodox. Even if you don't self-insert, it's the same as not liking futa or judging someone for liking feet. Porn media is porn media, and NTR is a turn-off to some people including myself. It's like Metamorphosis or 177013 where you genuinely can't jerk off to it because you feel bad for the MC. Just jerk off to hot chicks man, why does anyone feel the need to add human suffering as a topping to porn?

It's the same for SAO as you mentioned, why would anyone want to see the MC get cucked? Let me tell you: jealousy. Those that like NTR are either cucks or jealous people who lead trashy lives: i.e. they want to see someone get cucked because that someone has things THEY PERSONALLY don't have.

Any normal person would just shrug. It's the same thing as normal people not wanting female characters to get raped for just being a bitch. Liking NTR is something deeper, something related to the personal lives of those who enjoy it. Hence why normal people don't really like it: people who like NTR are, well, often messed up in the head.

 

[suspiciousriceeater]

certified NTR hater here, two reasons

1. Half of NTR games are written like ass where the protagonist is a complete spineless pushover who I'm surprised ever learned to walk because he clearly can't stand. I like it when everyone in the game is having fun too.
2. I ain't no homewrecker.

This right here.

I feel the same way about those shitty romcom protagonists. NTR games and media are meant for cuckolds to self-insert, thus explaining why the characters are such wimps. Like it isn't that hard to actually speak up for yourself. It's like someone's unrealistic hate fantasy that's somehow been serialized into billions of games and hentai.

 

[suspiciousriceeater]

How do you feel about tragedies? As in the genre of drama, not real-life tragic events. I get feeling bad for the protagonist in a tragedy, but I don't get hating all tragedies because they make you feel bad. At least not hating them to the degree of wanting to ban the entire genre, or feeling the need to complain about it online.

I feel like everyone can enjoy a good tragedy. There's a big BUT though: correct me if I'm wrong, but people don't usually jerk off to tragedies. So why jerk off to NTR?

 

[agelastos]

I feel like everyone can enjoy a good tragedy. There's a big BUT though: correct me if I'm wrong, but people don't usually jerk off to tragedies. So why jerk off to NTR?

The simple and obvious answer: because it gets you off. Some people jerk it to feet, or bestiality, or rape, or sexual torture, or furries, or the sound of insects being crushed, or the idea of getting infected (or infecting others) with HIV. Others like hand-holding and kisses. You don't get to choose your kinks.
For a more detailed answer, see this thread.

 

[Saerwen]

Because people probably got cheated on and now can't separate what happened in real life from the fictional stories, they get too attached and heavily invested in it rather than detaching and treating it like a story.

If I read 'Lady Chatterley's Lover' I don't feel 'cucked' because I know I'm not the nobleman of the story whose wife gets fucked by a peasant worker, I am a person observing these events i.e. reading a book. You would no doubt think it absurd for someone to become extremely angry and emotional, throwing the book and smashing things simply by reading some words on a page and yet...here we are.

It's the same issue of trying to understand cucks vs the people that rage and hate it, it's a matter of:

1) Do they observe the material clinically and detached, enjoying the art for what it is or do they attach themselves and identify AS a character?
2) If they identify and attach to a character, which one? And Why?

The solution for both sides? Stop identifying and tying in fictional art to yourselves. Enjoy the artistic work for the work that it is.

I haven't read the book yet but to me Anna Karenina is a classic.

 

[suspiciousriceeater]

The simple and obvious answer: because it gets you off. Some people jerk it to feet, or bestiality, or rape, or sexual torture, or furries, or the sound of insects being crushed, or the idea of getting infected (or infecting others) with HIV. Others like hand-holding and kisses. You don't get to choose your kinks.
For a more detailed answer, see this thread.

Those sound way too fucking specific to be examples you thought off the top of your head.
Also, if anyone gets off on infecting people with ANY std, they should probably stop jerking off and just go to therapy... that's just messed up.