When does a female character lose sexual appeal?

[Deleted member 992182]

As I'm confined to my bed for the coming weeks, I'm thinking a little about the future after Sisterly Lust. My current project is very much geared towards lust fulfilment for the MC (player), so the girls have no serious rivals and the sex comes relatively easy. NTR as a fetish doesn't interest me, so it's unlikely I will ever include it in a project.

My next VN will contain a lot of sex as well and the MC will get his fair share, of course. But I've been wondering though at what point a girl in an erotic VN becomes ruined to a player. Some people are extremely protective of "their" girls and hate it when another male character even chats up the female element. So I'm interested at what point you consider the appeal of a girl being lost?

To give an example, a major part of the female cast gets abducted by some monster and a little while later you end up finding them entangled and penetrated by various tentacles (belonging to the monster), requiring you to save them. Would that diminish their sexual appeal because of the penetration?

The hard truth (no pun intended)?

When she's first fucked. You may enjoy her after but she's like a new car in that she depreciates as soon as you drive her off the lot.

Devs know this and it's why they often drag the first sex scene across 10 updates or more. People naturally want what they can't have and no longer want it when they have it. It's how we're built.

 

[~Satanael~]

Well, first off, let me start by saying that I wish you a speedy recovery and that I love your game! (This is a long post and I apologize.)

Now to answer your question. A character, for me, doesn't really lose sexual appeal, until it feels like they have nothing else to offer. Not that a woman loses value just because I've already banged her, but this is first and foremost a porn game, and a VN. In real life, sex at twenty feels amazing, and at seventy it still feels amazing! If you don't throw out your back, or dislocate a hip. In a game like these though, the sex can get boring if there's nothing new. Just like in real life, you need something to spice it up. In these games it starts with a handjob, then a blowjob, and so on and so forth. However once you have sex with the character then what? You have to add something new right? "Let's do anal" They say. You only have two options. Vaginal or anal, or as Jimmy Carr calls them, the "front bottom and back cunt". Let's keep it classy here. There needs to be more than that, of course. That's where the story comes in. What's the situation, are you in public, is there risk of being caught? To me, these things keep interest in the character for me. Adding in more than one person can keep me going. Using Dreams of Desire, which I thoroughly enjoyed, as an example, you weren't really allowed to enjoy having "seduced" all the characters in the game and playing with them all together. Now the question would be, "Where's the line?" I wouldn't call myself a fan of NTR. If given the option to avoid it I typically do. I have let it happen before though and I have played a game that was strictly NTR, Bella's First Sin, and enjoyed it. However in BFS, I wasn't emotionally invested in the character. It's a short twenty minute game. It was like watching Lisa Ann get gangbanged on Pornhub. Not a big deal, nothing new, just here to wank. Back to NTR, the more invested I am in the character the less I'm willing to share. More willing to share if the guy is my best mate, as opposed to some jackass. Those assholes can fuck off, and should be buried alive beneath a prison. Ignoring preferences though, let's follow your scenario where the women are taken whether by monster or man. They get penetrated. I can live with that, unless they're enjoying it. For me, how could I go back and compete and satisfy these women like nothing happened. A tentacle monster can go and fuck these girls stupid, in ways you never could. The bar has been set, and it's too high. It'd be like starting the game banging a girl and ending the game with a handjob. Yeah, sure, you still cum regardless, but it wasn't what you really wanted.

It really just depends on how it's handled though. If done correctly, I think it could be good. It needs to be believable though. It's like when you drink top shelf alcohol, once you have it, you can't go back to that lower shelf shit. The MC will need to up his game. Hell, let him team up with the tentacle monster or get bestowed a tentacle cock. In the end though it's all about the characters, that's what I'm here for, banging them is just a plus. If you keep giving me something new whether it's personal, or sexual I'll keep interest in the characters. When the characters become stagnant, that's when I consider them dead.

Hope this helps! I look forward to your next update on SL when you're feeling better!

 

[jamdan]

Good character/personality building and progression should make the girl more appealing as the game goes on IMO. Sex shouldn't make her lose appeal , it should bring on the next phase of the relationship and maybe open up more kinky stuff for people that are into that. That next phase probably wouldn't be as interesting as the initial buildup, but it should should put the cherry on top if you will and bring some closure to the story. Happy ending please, no burning houses . In games that go downhill after the sex happens, IMO that is a result of bad planning and storytelling. The buildup happened and the sexual peak was reached...and now the game falls off a cliff because people ask "Now what?" and there isn't a good answer for that question.

In a lot of games, the girls are just empty shells. No real personality or anything that makes her unique. I can't empathize with empty shells, those girls lose appeal quickly if they ever had it beyond "Hey, nice boobs you got there". As literally all they are is a mindless f-doll, they aren't interesting and you have no reason to value them. Now that mindless f-doll girl is fine for a fap game, but if its a story based game the girl needs a personality and a story or it just bring the whole game down.

 

[khahan]

I'm going to take this in a different direction than the NTR issues. They lose their sex appeal under a handful of circumstances:

1. Pedophilia - yes, every game puts a disclaimer out that, "all characters are 18 yrs or older" but when 1 person is a senior in HS (reasonably can be 18) and another is a year younger - too tough of a pill to swallow that its not just a child being shown. Another example is when the character simply looks more like a child. For a great example of both see The Intoxicating Flavor. I can't even download that game.

2. The perfect game girl with no realistic grounding in personality. "Oh Mr. MC I've been dating multiple guys for years. I have a foul mouth and talk about sex all the time. I've had long term boyfriends but now that you and I are about to have sex, please be gentle. I'm actually a virgin." Hell no, give me a girl with some experience.
Another one is the harem games where MC is screwing anything with 2 holes and a heartbeat. The MC and some of the women profess their undying love for each other. And suddenly that woman is perfectly happy to share you with 2 or 3 other girls without any story or background or prior notification. Just makes the woman seem weak and needy. A harem route needs to have interaction early in a relationship to establish the fact that if the girl is going to be with the MC, she's going to share and she goes in understanding that. Give our woman some flaws (in personality, not in their bodies - I love the animations in sisterly lust!). When the personalities are just too perfect it comes across almost as if its some programmed robot we built instead of a woman for the MC to interact with.

 

[Batdog]

As I'm confined to my bed for the coming weeks, I'm thinking a little about the future after Sisterly Lust. My current project is very much geared towards lust fulfilment for the MC (player), so the girls have no serious rivals and the sex comes relatively easy. NTR as a fetish doesn't interest me, so it's unlikely I will ever include it in a project.

My next VN will contain a lot of sex as well and the MC will get his fair share, of course. But I've been wondering though at what point a girl in an erotic VN becomes ruined to a player. Some people are extremely protective of "their" girls and hate it when another male character even chats up the female element. So I'm interested at what point you consider the appeal of a girl being lost?

To give an example, a major part of the female cast gets abducted by some monster and a little while later you end up finding them entangled and penetrated by various tentacles (belonging to the monster), requiring you to save them. Would that diminish their sexual appeal because of the penetration?

If she turns out to have a dick...I have no idea why NTR is hated more than Futa.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

If she turns out to have a dick...I have no idea why NTR is hated more than Futa.

Because guys want to be the alpha which means being the most attractive, well-endowed guy that every girl wants. They want all the girls for themselves and don't want to share or have another guy who the women want more than them. That's what these games give them and NTR ruins that feeling; they don't want to be cucked.

Personally, I don't mind if it turns out the girl has a dick as long as they're hot (same goes for real life as has happened once). For me, there isn't much a female character can do to become undesirable, but if anything I'd have to say that it would be if the girl/woman turns out to be a totally cold-hearted, mean-spirited bitch or was one already and in either case their attitude/behaviour doesn't change. If they're someone with a real nasty streak who treats other people, including their sexual partners, like trash then I want nothing to do with them. I'd rather have a nice, fun, compassionate girl, with a backbone when she needs it, than a girl who's a total ice queen that delights in breaking other people's backbones.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Another one is the harem games where MC is screwing anything with 2 holes and a heartbeat. The MC and some of the women profess their undying love for each other. And suddenly that woman is perfectly happy to share you with 2 or 3 other girls without any story or background or prior notification. Just makes the woman seem weak and needy. A harem route needs to have interaction early in a relationship to establish the fact that if the girl is going to be with the MC, she's going to share and she goes in understanding that. Give our woman some flaws (in personality, not in their bodies - I love the animations in sisterly lust!). When the personalities are just too perfect it comes across almost as if its some programmed robot we built instead of a woman for the MC to interact with.

lol, force the creator to watch all episodes of that series, hmm, whats it name.. Sister Wives or something like that.

In regard of give them flaws in personality and not in bodies. Tbh, I wouldn't mind more "real life" looking models. Kinda break immersion when they look like plastic barbie dolls.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Because guys want to be the alpha which means being the most attractive, well-endowed guy that every girl wants. They want all the girls for themselves and don't want to share or have another guy who the women want more than them. That's what these games give them and NTR ruins that feeling; they don't want to be cucked.

Uh, I doubt most girl's want a giant schlong that tear them apart. The "because the MC got a giant dong, the girls swoon" for him make terrible story writing. If you look at like porn from Japan, the dudes is more than often just average joe's. Because that is what the consumer more identify themselves at. The whole immersion thing I guess.

I guess most doesn't like NTR, anymore than they like the idea of someone sleeping with their gf, wife, partner, whatever (if they not into that sort of thing to start with). If you as the player have a love interest in a game or target of pursuit, where you have competition, but you have means or abilities to deal with that competition before they can act out. I wouldn't mind that so much.

 

[Perverteer]

I guess most doesn't like NTR, anymore than they like the idea of someone sleeping with their gf, wife, partner, whatever (if they not into that sort of thing to start with). If you as the player have a love interest in a game or target of pursuit, where you have competition, but you have means or abilities to deal with that competition before they can act out. I wouldn't mind that so much.

I really like the

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tension in a lot of (modern) stories. Of course you can only accomplish this by having rounded characters. Introducing a potential love rival is a great way of having some narrative tension. But outright stealing girlfriends and showing the messy results (which NTR entails, if I understand it correctly) doesn't work for me.

I really don't like rape as a narrative device, as it's often misused as a way for other characters than the victim to emote about the event or to make them 'grow' as a character. I guess it ties into the loss of agency that most people in this thread highlight as something that turns them off. A traumatic event then becomes nothing more than a plot device.

Also, to be clear, there won't be any tentacles in Sisterly Lust. I'm fleshing out my next project, which is going to be a space opera and will include the more outlandish fetishes and a little more drama. Somtimes outlandish also means more extreme consequences for characters, hence my original question in the OP.

 

[Akamari]

But the consequences can be avoided or we will have to sit and watch the "punishment"?

Right, consequences implies choices. As long as there are choices, I'd be fine with all kinds of shit. What eyes don't see, the heart doesn't grieve over. When something bad happens as a result of player's choice it's his fault.

 

[Joshua Tree]

But the consequences can be avoided or we will have to sit and watch the "punishment"?

I don't mind as long as consequences can be avoided as long as sensible. One wrong choice in prologue and then 5 chapters later, sorry your love interest now in a 100 monster tentacle gangbang... One bad scene or story arch in a game can ruin the entire experience and just lead to the player delete it all. I'm not against (reasonable) hardship where you as a player need to work for it

 

[mattslime]

I absolutely hate NTR, i play mostly games with some form of supernatural powers (Mind control/possession). So if the MC has these powers, i also expect him to be in control, and not get cucked without any way of avoiding it. Like many people said, those are MY girls, and you bet your ass i will be looking for revenge arcs, if those are not in the game, i quit.

That and the 'the MC is the most OP in the universe, SIKE; here is mr/mrs self-insert, who makes all your decisions void because he/she is more OP than you and you cannot do anything about it." (even if it is one of the girls in the MC's harem, this makes me stop playing immediatly)

I also hate when a character gets raped without any way of avoiding that.

That said, rape can be an extremely good story element, but it is seldomly used as such. It's mostly used for people who like to be cucked, or as the MC's way of asserting dominance over a girl (in most corruption games), or as a 'bad end'. You never see it used to actually progress the story.

"But Matt, how do you use rape as a story element if it is literally only used for the things you said above?"

Have it be part of a characters life. For example, MC is an average Joe, looking to romance girl X. He's making progress, getting her to smile, giggle, even go out on a date; At some point in the date he makes a move and touches her (let's say the classic cinema-yawn), but girl X rejects him without the MC knowing why and leaves. She avoid the MC's questions the following days, but still hangs around. After some time, you find out (by example, by building trust with girl X and having her open up more) that she was raped when she was younger. (The MC can now have a flashback as she recalls the event, but keep it vague, for the people less interested.) (perhaps have the rapist arrested, so there is no need for extra characters, or not, of the MC is the vengeful type). This opens up the MC to try and help her 'heal' from the trauma. Slowly getting her comfortable with being around men again, and learning to deal with the feelings the MC is trying to build.

In the end you can have her react in 3 ways,

1. have her enjoy sex with the MC and she is 'healed' (DON'T MAKE HER A SLUT, THAT WOULD RUIN THE ENTIRE SETUP)
2. she still feels fear, and you can continue to help her, (but make the sex option available, having her react more positive the more she opens up)
3. have the MC respect her decision and make her a friend instead of her having sex. (this would problaby require there to be more than 1 girl in a game, but it would work for a VN with only girl X too)
   
   
4. (For 'evil' playthroughs: rape her [I would personally hate this option if it came after all the work the MC did, and if it didn't fit with his personality]

This approach will invest players with the girl, gives a decent story, and includes rape without it being shoved in your face. And for players who don't like this, they can just avoid the girl, or take option 3.


Man, if only i could code... I've been itching to make a story/game for so long, but can't code for shit.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Man, if only i could code... I've been itching to make a story/game for so long, but can't code for shit.

So seek out someone you can collaborate with? Some people can be good at code or do graphics but can't piece two sentences together even their life depends on it.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I really like the

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tension in a lot of (modern) stories. Of course you can only accomplish this by having rounded characters. Introducing a potential love rival is a great way of having some narrative tension. But outright stealing girlfriends and showing the messy results (which NTR entails, if I understand it correctly) doesn't work for me.

Which is why a lot of people don't like NTR. If you lose the girl to another to another guy because you dumped her or didn't treat her right, fine, but most guys don't then want to see the girl they lost getting it on with the other guy, especially in the scenario where they're being forced to which by one or both of them and they're getting some kind of twisted pleasure from doing it in front of the MC.

I really don't like rape as a narrative device, as it's often misused as a way for other characters than the victim to emote about the event or to make them 'grow' as a character. I guess it ties into the loss of agency that most people in this thread highlight as something that turns them off. A traumatic event then becomes nothing more than a plot device.

I too feel that rape as a narrative device is wrong in any scenario, but the worst offender in this case as far as I'm concerned is when a male character rapes a female character because of this overwhelming, uncontrollable lust he has for her and even though she is rightfully objectionable to it at the start, she becomes more receptive to it as it goes on and even starts to enjoy the sex. It's basically the plot of a lot of hentais but it perpetuates this rape culture idea that a woman will eventually enjoy having sex with you if you just force it on her and that is never the case.

 

[Perverteer]

But the consequences can be avoided or we will have to sit and watch the "punishment"?

With Sisterly Lust I've had the approach of making any fetish optional. So if you don't want watersports or pregnancy, you can opt out.

Same thing could be done narratively in my tentacle scenario. Say it's part of a mission, you could telegraph early that it's going to be very dangerous, allowing you to decline the mission. Maybe even have a second escape hatch at the beginning of the mission, allowing you to pull out early.

Have it be part of a characters life. For example, MC is an average Joe, looking to romance girl X. He's making progress, getting her to smile, giggle, even go out on a date; At some point in the date he makes a move and touches her (let's say the classic cinema-yawn), but girl X rejects him without the MC knowing why and leaves. She avoid the MC's questions the following days, but still hangs around. After some time, you find out (by example, by building trust with girl X and having her open up more) that she was raped when she was younger. (The MC can now have a flashback as she recalls the event, but keep it vague, for the people less interested.) (perhaps have the rapist arrested, so there is no need for extra characters, or not, of the MC is the vengeful type). This opens up the MC to try and help her 'heal' from the trauma. Slowly getting her comfortable with being around men again, and learning to deal with the feelings the MC is trying to build.

In the end you can have her react in 3 ways,

1. have her enjoy sex with the MC and she is 'healed' (DON'T MAKE HER A SLUT, THAT WOULD RUIN THE ENTIRE SETUP)
2. she still feels fear, and you can continue to help her, (but make the sex option available, having her react more positive the more she opens up)
3. have the MC respect her decision and make her a friend instead of her having sex. (this would problaby require there to be more than 1 girl in a game, but it would work for a VN with only girl X too)
   
   
4. (For 'evil' playthroughs: rape her [I would personally hate this option if it came after all the work the MC did, and if it didn't fit with his personality]

This approach will invest players with the girl, gives a decent story, and includes rape without it being shoved in your face. And for players who don't like this, they can just avoid the girl, or take option 3.


Man, if only i could code... I've been itching to make a story/game for so long, but can't code for shit.

Such a story about helping her overcome trauma should be handled very delicately, I think. But it's a better scenario than the "This rape has made me stronger!" trope, commonly found in gritty fantasy nowadays (thank you George R. Martin).

I too feel that rape as a narrative device is wrong in any scenario, but the worst offender in this case as far as I'm concerned is when a male character rapes a female character because of this overwhelming, uncontrollable lust he has for her and even though she is rightfully objectionable to it at the start, she becomes more receptive to it as it goes on and even starts to enjoy the sex. It's basically the plot of a lot of hentais but it perpetuates this rape culture idea that a woman will eventually enjoy having sex with you if you just force it on her and that is never the case.

Yes, it's that weird notion that if the girl appears to like everything that's done to her halfway, the idea of forced sex is somehow less bad. I mean, it's a justification, but not a very strong one.

 

[Avaron1974]

Some men have unrealistic expectations.

Some would say penetration loses their sex appeal meanwhile they are masturbating over porn stars that have had more prick than a second hand dartboard. Some men have the delusion that the woman they meet will never have been with another man.

I played a game not long ago called Shining Song Starnova. 1 of the women is an ex idol working as a bar hostess and is 26 years old. Later on you find out she's a virgin because Japan but realistically she wouldn't be. One of the other women, Julie, is working as a one of those date girls guys take out but don't get to fuck, it's a money fleece at it's core. However she's the only one that isn't a virgin and by fuck do they lay it on thick that she's a bit of a shallow tart.

For me, personally, I don't care who or what a woman's fucked they are still sexually appealing. What kills it for me is when they open their mouths and dumb shit flies out. Stupidity is my biggest turn off.

My girlfriend is quite a bit older than me and she's bisexual. I know she's far more experienced with men and women than i'll ever be while i'm just lesbian and only been with a few women. Does that make her any less sexy to me?

Hell no, woman's hot as hell.

It's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Silver]

just release whatever you want, I am sure you can always find an audience for it. I have seen worst games in my life time with a lot of fans around them.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Some men have unrealistic expectations.

Some would say penetration loses their sex appeal meanwhile they are masturbating over porn stars that have had more prick than a second hand dartboard. Some men have the delusion that the woman they meet will never have been with another man.

I played a game not long ago called Shining Song Starnova. 1 of the women is an ex idol working as a bar hostess and is 26 years old. Later on you find out she's a virgin because Japan but realistically she wouldn't be. One of the other women, Julie, is working as a one of those date girls guys take out but don't get to fuck, it's a money fleece at it's core. However she's the only one that isn't a virgin and by fuck do they lay it on thick that she's a bit of a shallow tart.

For me, personally, I don't care who or what a woman's fucked they are still sexually appealing. What kills it for me is when they open their mouths and dumb shit flies out. Stupidity is my biggest turn off.

My girlfriend is quite a bit older than me and she's bisexual. I know she's far more experienced with men and women than i'll ever be while i'm just lesbian and only been with a few women. Does that make her any less sexy to me?

Hell no, woman's hot as hell.

It's all a matter of perspective.

That come from age and experience as well though in regard of unrealistic expectations. Also if you fall for someone, you have really no idea what their past experience and life been. Everyone have a history and baggage to go with it. As my uncle used to say, looks isn't everything but it helps. No matter how cute etc someone is, unless their personality fit your preference it means nothing. And yeah, stupid is a big turn off.

 

[Idkanythingsmarter]

@Perverteer First of all, there are already stated some reasons what causing big turn offs in a game.
For me it would be NTR (I hate it), and generally everything about that genre, cheating, cuckolding, raping,...
Next is discovering or talking how girl was a cumdump, city bycicle, etc. No matter a way, how you got to these informations.
Then, praising BBC. (Sinful delicacies-that Aunt scene was utter garbage).
Sudden turnovers like what happened in last update in Freeloading family - Alice for no reason after all that build up, start to drift away from MC.
And at end, that bestiality genre, sci-fi genre with tentacles. Sorry, that's not my cup of tee, nor will ever be.
I rly like SL and will play it till the end, that next project I won't, but, nevertheless I wish you good luck with that.
Call it vanila or whatever you want, but that's what I like (harem, incest games). I like my girls and don't want to see them with anyone else except me.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Some men have unrealistic expectations.

Some would say penetration loses their sex appeal meanwhile they are masturbating over porn stars that have had more prick than a second hand dartboard. Some men have the delusion that the woman they meet will never have been with another man.

I played a game not long ago called Shining Song Starnova. 1 of the women is an ex idol working as a bar hostess and is 26 years old. Later on you find out she's a virgin because Japan but realistically she wouldn't be. One of the other women, Julie, is working as a one of those date girls guys take out but don't get to fuck, it's a money fleece at it's core. However she's the only one that isn't a virgin and by fuck do they lay it on thick that she's a bit of a shallow tart.

For me, personally, I don't care who or what a woman's fucked they are still sexually appealing. What kills it for me is when they open their mouths and dumb shit flies out. Stupidity is my biggest turn off.

My girlfriend is quite a bit older than me and she's bisexual. I know she's far more experienced with men and women than i'll ever be while i'm just lesbian and only been with a few women. Does that make her any less sexy to me?

Hell no, woman's hot as hell.

It's all a matter of perspective.

I don't think anyone's making the argument that a woman who has been with other men (or women) makes them sexually unappealing. There are some porn stars I would gladly fuck even though I know the amount of the dick they've probably had is about 5 times their age, at least. What I think people are saying puts them off is seeing women get fucked by weird alien creatures, tentacles, animals, or just regular guys and enjoy it, as well as getting some kind of perverse pleasure from doing it front of the MC who is, ostensibly, the player themselves.

Again, I think it goes back to the notion that most guys want to be the one giving the pleasure to the woman and not physically see them getting it from someone or something else as it makes them feel inadequate and maybe even a little threatened. It happened to me once with a girlfriend who was bisexual. We had a threesome with this random girl we met and although it was hot to watch the 2 of them, it often looked like my gf was enjoying herself more with this girl than she ever did with me and that didn't feel good.

Also, in cases where the woman enjoys torturing the guy by making him watch, this makes the woman out to be rather cruel and this is a very unappealing trait in both men and women.