Agree. Both stories were always Ocean's but overt connection between SG and WIAB only came with the SG reworks after Chapter 2.Chronology versus narrative. You know that difference, don't you?
I think both stories are Ocean's from the beginning, they are his stories, but not because in a post he wrote long after things happened he says they were always his, no, but because throughout his history as a developer he has done the same thing many times: explain what he did wrong long after it happens, never before, never during but after.
Examples, chapter 6 of WIAB, the trip to the field, blender, chapter 1 of rework.... All of those had huge problems that we only found out about after the release of the up date, and in the case of blender and chapter one it took a year before telling what happened. Luckily today that's changed quite a bit, now it tries to tell what happens when it happens.
That gives me a pattern of behavior that gives support to the story. If not, I have to believe the guy who wanted to sell AOA on Steam, he wrote that it was his, didn't he?
But I also believe that there was no connection between the two, that once Ocean took control the connection was the shared universe, but that the deep connection came with the re works.
On happier things to talk about:
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Even, chapter two of SG was redone once Ocean came on board, if we were to stick strictly to the writing, at that time both said that Ocean was only helping with renderings. Later we found out that most of what was done by Regium was discarded. Another sign that the story makes sense, because if we only take into account the isolated fact of the posts, then we should believe that he only made some images. Another fact that I forgot to mention, the first time that Ocean talks in a WIAB log about the existence of SG (which is when he starts to "help" with chapter 2) among the things he says is how they divided the patreon income 75% him and 25% Regium.... Strange, isn't it?
She is really hot! Just another 10 years....
- Sep 21, 2016
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Oh man, let me help and counter that right there, but no worries ill edit this page for you after I done getting the rest for you. Also keep in mind to double check your screenshots dates. See the lovely thing is, There are quite a few of his messages missing here in WiAB as there was a purge before, but thankfully we still have this lovely gem right here !!
So I in fact owe NO ONE an apology. but hey thanks for bringing things out, Can you also grab the actual first iteration of the game ??
Matter of fact I stick to my point as I was there from the get go for the both of them, however when he took over, I refused to go anywhere near SG's forum, so whatever is or was said over there, don't know or care about it. But hey, there you got my version of receipts, unfortunately I am having a hard time finding the part where the discussion was happening about the situation with SG when the ORIGINAL DEV and WRITER decided to quit.
Edit #2 : And after the whole debacle at some point, dont remember if it i was in SG part or here or both but when there was a whole conversation about REGIUM the original SG creator and Ocean taking over the whole thing, and that purge happening. This is then what ended up happening after he took it over.
They originally ONLY shared a universe and that was it, NOTHING else. Only after Regium gave up on it and Ocean took it over and did the rework is when the "Deeply Connection" was made.
So it does NOT come to a surprise to me that a bunch of yall want to come tell me " I am wrong " given that most of you probably come from the SG side or was not even here from the start to begin with. So in fact. if there is any apology to be given.... well it ain't it seems that it is not to be coming from my side.
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Yeah, the SG Ch 2 Beta release dev log (from Dec 2019) states that Ch 2 was completely reworked prior to its eventual release, with 1,200 renders (out of circa 1,410) reworked. That log (written by Ocean) also mentioned 100 renders in Ch 2 were by Regium and 1,300 by Ocean.
...and it is interesting to go back to the original Ch 2 script - there's no connection to WIAB at all (for example, Ayua's Chinese, not Japanese, and she has no given surname).
OK, why would Ocean be taking 75% of the revenue from Regium's game? Why would Regium set his game in the same universe as Ocean's WIAB?
"I was there when he wrote the story for Summer's Gone and I influenced it too."
That statement is not incompatible with what Ocean has stated publicly (and what I and other's have pointed out already). Ocean gave the story/script idea to Regium, who molded it into Ch 1.
I await to see what else you dig up to add to your post because I'm trusting you're not hoisting your petard on that one sentence by Ocean.
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Absolutely, See remember just the dates of the screenshot the other person posted. Now as I said the original was Regium. So allow me to add another few things to the mix, As it does say and show in the screenshot I made which shows Ocean taking part in it around Nov 23 2019.
Yet here we have dear old Regium talking about routes and multiple endings and such, pretty much you can sum it up as working on his own thing from this post made on May 10 2019. It sounds more like SG was going to be a game loaded with a lot of sex amongst other things, then it changed to be more of a slow burn romantic type of thing. The original script for chapter 2 was scrapped. So given what we know. it was around the time Ocean was announced as helping out is when changes were made and WHEN it was made that the 2 games would share a universe. nothing else.
Now you may say, yeah you can sort of make something out like that but not enough to indicate Ocean had no say to it.
Well with that allow me to add another screenshot, from sept 29 2019. This is pretty much when Ocean was for the first time mentioned and not only that the reason for it was because our dear old original creator was having PC issues and as such.
well... the screen shot speaks for itself. Also this might explain the " OK, why would Ocean be taking 75% of the revenue from Regium's game? " question you are asking.. Well it seems Regiums PC was fucked which in turn made most of the rendering work fall on Ocean at this point.
And if THAT wasnt enough, here is another one where you can see that they officially announced their partnership on this screenshot which is made on Nov 14. Oh and this is not the reworked version this is the original SG chapter 2 that is being talked about, not the rework or update or whatever. This is basically where the changes were made to have the universes be the same. And where Ocean probably helped with some of the story, but he never was the official or main writer, as per my first screenshot where I highlighted my part.
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- Oct 15, 2016
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Good post!
The one you replied to is like all the others, essentially people bitching and complaining that their free shit isn't coming fast enough for their expectations... The entitlement sure is strong with some people who post onthe forum, thats foir sure.
Thanks for the screenshots. Again, none of this contradicts Ocean's assertion that he was the one "who originally wrote Summer's Gone but gave it to a friend so he could start his "own" game."
Thus, at the very least, Ocean developed the SG premise and story outline, which Regium then molded and fleshed out into his "own" story in Chapter 1.
Unless, you are publicly accusing a game developer of being a fraud and a liar.
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Let me put it differently. When Ice Cube was part of NWA and heard the stories and was hanging out with the rest of the crew. He came up with lyrics and songs based on the lifestyle, Or so it was told or something along those lines ( don't know much about that but am using it as a mere example, He was accused of stealing their lifestyle or something and being fake again no idea what is or is not true, merely example here ).
Based on that assumption, did they write his songs or his lines ? or did they ghost write for him ?
My point is, that even if at the start he may have pitched him a summery, at the end of the day Regium his first chapter, his chapter 1 had nothing to do with Summers Gone, not even set in the same universe ( I have played the first release )
On chapter 2 it's release chapter 1 was reworked, you had to start over. Only way we can go about this, is if we can find that actual initial release and chapter 2 release and compare to the release 2.5Beta.
The only time there was a universal connection was when it was brought up by the both of them eventually after it was mentioned that he was brought in to help ( which was initially just for the rendering, as he himself said, nothing changes story wise, which did end up happening later )
So if you are asking me if I am saying that Ocean lied about being there from day 1 and being the writer of it, then yes I am saying that is a lie on the writing part.
There are only a few things I can take out of this in terms of scenario's
1. Regium had his own story and the story was changed when Ocean got on board hence yes he had a hand in its writing but that came later and not from day 1. Which means yes he did have a hand in its writing but only later on around Ch2. Which means it is a half truth.
2. Regium never existed in the first place, Which in that case he is fully correct and he did have a hand in writing since before SG's conception.
Which would be crazy, because guess who also had many computer issues after WiAB Ch4 release.
( not gonna do some conspiracy theory and such, just being a smart ass here but yeah Ocean also was having issues )
However crazy enough, him going so hard on that was only after Regium decided to completely stop and wanting nothing to do with the game. Which makes it very easy to be able to make claims left and right without of course anyone being able to ask or question anything. Now to be clear I got no hate for Ocean, He makes a good game has amazing renders and etc. But that does not change the fact that he made so many contradictions in terms of speeds of release and what not. Which is the only issues I got. But I have supported him for quite a bit on and off during his whole WiAB all the way to Ch6 until his full rework was announced. ( I rotated support for dev's every few months or so, for Ocean I stayed the longest )
But let me say it differently, based on everything I brought forward and stuff I did find, there is nothing showing that Ocean was part of it or there from the beginning either. So I could say that at the very least Ocean decided to make it his own completely after it was abandoned by Regium.
EDIT: Also from the again from my first screenshot, Ocean's own words were " I was there when He ( Regium ) wrote the story for Summer's Gone and I influenced it too " Mean's Writer Regium. And later contradicts himself. Kind of weird isn't it ? Influence does not mean write, you give someone a direction or advice, but at the end of the day, the actions and the work are of the person putting in the work or creating it.
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In your options, you didn't add:
3. Ocean gave Regium a story outline or a script, which Regium fleshed out into Chapter 1 of a game he developed and released (and this is what Ocean says he did). Regium would have no need to acknowledge this.
In this scenario, the basic story premise and characters belong to Ocean, regardless of Regium developing chapter 1 to suit his own tastes.
"I was there when He (Regium) wrote the story for Summer's Gone and I influenced it too." If that exact sentence was in Ocean's native German and if Ocean didn't state he was doing a favor for a mate to help him develop his own game, I would take it more literally. Again, the sentence doesn't preclude Ocean giving Regium the story outline/script, which Regium then molded into Chapter 1.
At least you are on record calling Ocean a liar.
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Just so you can make your comparisons:
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Now can we talk about this after you've make an excel spreadsheet of the differences? I honestly can't be bothered downloading them all to check myself, it was boring enough finding them.
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While I love the scandalous reports and shocking investigations of the Saturday Night Live at WiAB thread show, one thought lingers in my mind.
Someone under the nickname Ocean (or former Oceanlab on zone) has been publishing development reports for at least four years, releasing updates for both games, communicating with players on Discord, and, until recently, communicated on this forum.
During this time, he showed that he could easily continue both stories, modify the plot of both games, change old characters, add new ones, change the appearance of the characters, rework graphics completely. In general, do whatever he wants with both games.
I'm not saying now whether these changes were for good or bad, that's a matter of taste, anyway, in both games there is little left from what was there four years ago. Besides the basic plot. Yes, it was changed, modified and fixed throughout development, but overall both games remained what they were originally. Yes, most of the hardcore dark stuff was removed from the SG, but the key plot points remained there. Yes, you can spam the entire forum with complaints what a shitty MC the W.Z. has become now, but this is still the same game about a dude and his nympho ninja girlfriend who returns home to his fucked-upfamily unit and immediately finds himself drawn into a whirlpool of crazy events.
And so I thought, whoever is hiding under the nickname Ocean, over the years he has clearly demonstrated what he can do, including the role of a scriptwriter. But I haven’t heard anything since then about the supposedly real author of the genuine Summer's Gone story and haven’t seen the results of their work. This, of course, does not prove anything and in reality anything could happen, a group of people could be hiding behind Ocean’s accounts, or Regium might have been an Ocean's alternative account, created for marketing or fuck knows what else purposes. And at some point he got tired of maintaining both identities and decided to simplify his life by allowing Regium to disappear. In short, the devil knows. This is the Internet, here anyone can be anyone.
There is one thing I am sure of. Whoever runs official Ocean accounts makes two of my favorite games over the years. Therefore, in any controversial issues, I will trust his words, and everything that contradicts his statements will be classified as funny theories to me until there is one hundred percent evidence of their correctness.
Someone under the nickname Ocean (or former Oceanlab on zone) has been publishing development reports for at least four years, releasing updates for both games, communicating with players on Discord, and, until recently, communicated on this forum.
During this time, he showed that he could easily continue both stories, modify the plot of both games, change old characters, add new ones, change the appearance of the characters, rework graphics completely. In general, do whatever he wants with both games.
I'm not saying now whether these changes were for good or bad, that's a matter of taste, anyway, in both games there is little left from what was there four years ago. Besides the basic plot. Yes, it was changed, modified and fixed throughout development, but overall both games remained what they were originally. Yes, most of the hardcore dark stuff was removed from the SG, but the key plot points remained there. Yes, you can spam the entire forum with complaints what a shitty MC the W.Z. has become now, but this is still the same game about a dude and his nympho ninja girlfriend who returns home to his fucked-up
And so I thought, whoever is hiding under the nickname Ocean, over the years he has clearly demonstrated what he can do, including the role of a scriptwriter. But I haven’t heard anything since then about the supposedly real author of the genuine Summer's Gone story and haven’t seen the results of their work. This, of course, does not prove anything and in reality anything could happen, a group of people could be hiding behind Ocean’s accounts, or Regium might have been an Ocean's alternative account, created for marketing or fuck knows what else purposes. And at some point he got tired of maintaining both identities and decided to simplify his life by allowing Regium to disappear. In short, the devil knows. This is the Internet, here anyone can be anyone.
There is one thing I am sure of. Whoever runs official Ocean accounts makes two of my favorite games over the years. Therefore, in any controversial issues, I will trust his words, and everything that contradicts his statements will be classified as funny theories to me until there is one hundred percent evidence of their correctness.
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While I am always open for an option 3 or even 4 or more. I believe this is contradicting when you "I was there when He (Regium) wrote the story for Summer's Gone and I influenced it too." If that exact sentence was in Ocean's native German and if Ocean didn't state he was doing a favor for a mate to help him develop his own game, I would take it more literally.
but say " Ocean gave Regium a story outline or a script, which Regium fleshed out into Chapter 1 of a game he developed and released (and this is what Ocean says he did). Regium would have no need to acknowledge this. "
Because if we can use the German as an excuse for one you can also use it for the other.
So if we were to give me a more in my opinion 3rd option that would be. If Ocean may have provided him with the basics of story writing as in formatting, content length, bullet points to keep with consistency.
Sure, he had as much influence as the guy asking Elon Musk about the gas and the booster situation. At that point in time.
And to be clear on a few thing, English is also not my primary language.
Doubt ill be doing excel sheets, but I do appreciate you finding them and given that I am currently sick with admittingly fuck all to do anyways. ill get to the playing, would have been great if 2.5 was also in there. but this will do for now.
EDIT: Not sure I can do much with 3 as at this point obviously Ocean already fully took over which I just realized . but ill take it anyways
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That is completely fine with me. I am pretty sure I have not said anything about his games being crap or what not, I have however merely pointed out what was there in the beginning vs what is being said. And still is a he said they said she said whatever said. Never said anything about the games. I did however say something about him and promises he made before but that is beside the point. So yeah I believe we agree on everything else. and I think I said it before, if I see a release great and if not great. However one thing I will always disagree on is the part of how SG and WiAB always had been connected.While I love the scandalous reports and shocking investigations of the Saturday Night Live at WiAB thread show, one thought lingers in my mind.
Someone under the nickname Ocean (or former Oceanlab on zone) has been publishing development reports for at least four years, releasing updates for both games, communicating with players on Discord, and, until recently, communicated on this forum.
During this time, he showed that he could easily continue both stories, modify the plot of both games, change old characters, add new ones, change the appearance of the characters, rework graphics completely. In general, do whatever he wants with both games.
I'm not saying now whether these changes were for good or bad, that's a matter of taste, anyway, in both games there is little left from what was there four years ago. Besides the basic plot. Yes, it was changed, modified and fixed throughout development, but overall both games remained what they were originally. Yes, most of the hardcore dark stuff was removed from the SG, but the key plot points remained there. Yes, you can spam the entire forum with complaints what a shitty MC the W.Z. has become now, but this is still the same game about a dude and his nympho ninja girlfriend who returns home to his fucked-upfamilyunit and immediately finds himself drawn into a whirlpool of crazy events.
And so I thought, whoever is hiding under the nickname Ocean, over the years he has clearly demonstrated what he can do, including the role of a scriptwriter. But I haven’t heard anything since then about the supposedly real author of the genuine Summer's Gone story and haven’t seen the results of their work. This, of course, does not prove anything and in reality anything could happen, a group of people could be hiding behind Ocean’s accounts, or Regium might have been an Ocean's alternative account, created for marketing or fuck knows what else purposes. And at some point he got tired of maintaining both identities and decided to simplify his life by allowing Regium to disappear. In short, the devil knows. This is the Internet, here anyone can be anyone.
There is one thing I am sure of. Whoever runs official Ocean accounts makes two of my favorite games over the years. Therefore, in any controversial issues, I will trust his words, and everything that contradicts his statements will be classified as funny theories to me until there is one hundred percent evidence of their correctness.
I have replied here:
https://f95zone.to/threads/summers-gone-ch-5-beta-oceanlab.29981/post-12751186
While I don't agree with Gold613 about the origins of the SG story, he is correct that Ch 1 and 2 had no overt connection to WIAB (I say "overt" because none of us are privy to what was was originally planned for the future when the story was first conceived).
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If everyone, including me, you and Ocean, is lucky enough to live a very long life until he finishes WiAB and SG, we will be able to resolve this dispute. Ocean once said that he had the plot of 5 games in his head (including WiAB and SG), and even named some abbreviations for the names of future games. So, if such a miracle happens and he starts the third game on the list, I will write to you with a light heart from the nursing home, "Haha man, who was right?"
- Sep 21, 2016
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If everyone, including me, you and Ocean, is lucky enough to live a very long life until he finishes WiAB and SG, we will be able to resolve this dispute. Ocean once said that he had the plot of 5 games in his head (including WiAB and SG), and even named some abbreviations for the names of future games. So, if such a miracle happens and he starts the third game on the list, I will write to you with a light heart from the nursing home, "Haha man, who was right?"
If we are lucky enough to get that many games and all finished I would actually care less about being right honestly.
I would be happy if 2 of those gets done in our lifetime. I remember him mentioning he wanted WiAB to have 39 ish chapters and something similar for SG ( when he fully took over ) and after that wanting to expand in to 3D gaming.
Also screw sending me a message asking about who's right, send some pictures of your nurses so I can compare them to mine.