Why do mothers in almost all games love to do yoga?

[anne O'nymous]

Honestly? Because of people who think I'm not allowed to share, or even have, a negative opinion. Every fucking time I ever say anything critical about any game ever, I always get the braindead response of 'Who are you to criticize them? What game did you make?'. Anyone who seriously floats an argument that dumb shouldn't be allowed to vote or have children.

Well, try to do it otherwise then, because I said tons of negative or controversial critics, and never got that kind of comments as answer ; like this one by example that, hmmm, probably crushed some dreams. And this even before I got my badges.
Criticize is always way easier than doing, so if you need to criticize, then at least demonstrate that you know what you talk about and, instead of saying that "this is bad", explain why it is, at least from your point of view. Something that you're clearly missing.

My dude. Plenty of games here are not properly listed as 'translated', [...] Those people don't deserve a free pass.

Good thing then that they don't have one.
You fucking tried their game for free, complaining because their game is shit make you looks like an idiot way more than they make them looks like an idiot. After all, they never pretended to be Shakespeare, while you decided to taste if what looks like shit is effectively shit.

I don't speak Spanish as a second language. So if I made a game, translated it into Spanish via MTL, and created a Patreon page in Spanish seeking money for my effort?

Except that Spanish isn't the international language, the one for which you can expect to reach the biggest audience. What, by extension, make it also the language for which you've the biggest chances to find someone who isn't you, someone that will notice the difficulties you have with English and who, seeing some interest in your creation, will help you to improve the translation.
What, here again, say way more regarding you, than regarding those creators. Talking shit about people is way easier than taking your fingers out of your fucking ass, and helping them improve what they are doing.

In summary: When the resulting final product is so poor, it should be pointed out for the benefit of others in the community, and those devs partaking in such low-effort practices deserve to be roasted for it.

Like your fucking lazy selfish elitist ass deserve to be roasted for what it is.
You're nothing more than a giant mouth full of craps, ready to shit on everything that don't please you, but that will never make an efforts to help who need help.

And it's the main difference between you and those creators you shit one. At least they are doing something, not keeping their ass on the couch. Of this they can be proud, whatever how much of a failure is the result, they tried. This while the only thing you can be proud of is to have shown the members of this forum what stupidity there's in your brain.

Sure, some devs have managed to bumble-fuck their way into that situation *cough* Milfy City *cough*, but it's like winning the lottery; it is largely luck and comes about organically, and is not the sort of success one can just plan to duplicate.

Yeah, ICSTOR is just a lucky guy... It's not like he have made seven finished games since he started in 2015, and will apparently finally finish (rush) his eight one.
Not that there isn't lucky guys but, well, it's like the rest, your mouth size is inversely proportional the one of your brain. You talk a lot, but don't really know what you're talking about. Whatever one can think about him, ICSTOR have way more merit, and put way more efforts in his games, than Braindrop by example.
But you'll not name the second, because it's the first that everyone like to shit on, and here again you're not ready to take some risk, you shit where others shit, whatever if it's the place it should be done or not.

 

[OsamiWorks]

yoga has so many health benefits like relaxing and stretching their vag to accommodate the MC's giant cock

 

[EvolutionKills]

And it's the main difference between you and those creators you shit one. At least they are doing something, not keeping their ass on the couch. Of this they can be proud, whatever how much of a failure is the result, they tried. This while the only thing you can be proud of is to have shown the members of this forum what stupidity there's in your brain.

Thank you for proving you are the very poster child of stupid argumentation.

Since only creators are allowed to have opinions, why are you sharing yours?

If people ever wonder why I no longer wear kids gloves, this is why. Being personally attacked for having the wherewithal to share my opinion, and that opinion being anything but rimming the asshole and giving a reach around to a developer.

 

[EvolutionKills]

It doesn't have to disprove it because your "assertion" is your opinion NOT a fact. Your opinion is also VERY bias and apparently drowning in anger for some reason.

No one said ANYTHING about you not being allowed to share or have an opinion but there is having and sharing an opinion " I don't really like chicken" AND.... then there is "fuck chicken, chicken fucking sux ass, anyone who likes chicken like shit!!!!"
There is a very big difference and the second one will be received with alot of hostility because it was shared with hostility.

I'll also point out that you are bringing your baggage from other places / threads into this one and it doesn't belong here.
on a side note it is really hard to take someone seriously when the crux of their points relies so heavily on insults.

You also didn't answer my question at all, you mentioned people BUT I asked about dev's and their games NOT the community.

Exaggerations aside I see you make no exception for new / beginner dev or Old dev's trying new things.

Firstly my dude, you need to cut back on the exaggerations, secondly, you can say for 100% fact that you know each and everyone of those dev's you "think" are "dropping it into Google Translate" are actually doing it? Or are you just painting plenty of dev's with the same brush as the ones you hate?

Neither did I but according to you it's ok to insult and belittle them AND you will notice I only pointed out others had a different opinion to yours I never implied or straight out said either side wasn't allowed opinions so I have NO idea where you pulled that from....

Don't hold your breathe, I never agreed to let you pick which copy-cats would be used as an example.

You see you keep phrasing it by saying "some aren't but most are hacks" so far you have fixated on one game, thrown in a couple of others later and still expect people to take you seriously when you try make out that the problem is really big.

The fact that you are dismissive and belittling towards others opinions while trying to "assert" your own, that is, that if a game isn't made to your exacting standards it's garbage, made by a hack shows that the only one not willing to engage here is you.

Not sure what ^ that has to do with you statement (quoted below)....but ok.....

That seems like a contradiction though.... dev's should listen "Ideally, themselves." but if they do and make a game "entirely on their specific kink with little effort put into anything else." then they are a hack...

Also when you say dev's should listen "Ideally, themselves." that means NOT listening to your...."criticisms" does not make them a hack and by "polls and public opinion" that includes you right?

There you go again, stating it as if it were a fact. It's not a fact, it's your opinion and your opinion does NOT trump others opinions. You jump very quickly on your supposed high horse when you think (wrongly so) that other don't want you to have an opinion but are just as quick to berate and belittle others opinions and try your utmost to make the environment hostile for them to share theirs.

You never claimed they were ONLY used by hack, what you DID claim is that the hacks are the majority and I am saying there are far less BAD uses of it than you claim. Not meeting your narrow, ridged view does not mean a scene was bad, a game is garbage or that the dev is a hack. It just means you don't like it and should go look for another game to play.

Yoga among others is used because some people enjoy it and want it.

TL;DR - I pissed off the Tone Police. This is all because you didn't like HOW I expressed my opinion.

 

[EvolutionKills]

You are the one making false claims all around.

What you are doing is just looking for an excuse to justify something you dislike into being "objectively worse" when in fact there is no objectivity in any of your points in the first place, remember that we are talking about kinks and spicy scenes in porn games.

You are just a bad critic that fails to realize the flaws in your own logic, nothing more. That's what many bad critics do, they come up with dumb and completely out of place excuses to justify their hate for something not being what they wanted instead of just saying it isn't their cup of tea.

Sure thing. Morphnet might be the Tone Police, but at least they're sharing an honest difference of opinion. They're being genuine. You? You got caught blatantly lying and misrepresenting me, and instead of apologizing or taking the L and backing down, you're just redirecting and spewing more invective. Classic smooth brain move.

 

[Loro]

It is just an assumption, but Yoga feels like one of these sports with high sexual potential in adult games, based on emphasizing positions, the tight clothes and especially the possibility, that you can actually help out with certain harder positions, which can lead to lewd accidents or touchings. So, Yoga seems to be a good excuse to light the first spark.

 

[Akeymu]

Yoga has sexy poses, and ones that for the most part are static.

dancing and other sports need animation, and some aren't sexy at all. For example I've never seen a female sumo wrestling game.

NSFW, not sumo but basic WWE wrestling and lots of fucking
https://f95zone.to/threads/nsfw-natural-selection-female-wrestling-final-nsfw-gamer.88342/

 

[morphnet]

TL;DR - I pissed off the Tone Police. This is all because you didn't like HOW I expressed my opinion.

So you've gone from I don't want you to / you're not allowed to have an opinion...

Sorry, I didn't know 'opinions' weren't allowed here on F95Zone.

to I don't like how you express it.... well I guess that's progress...of a sorts....

As for not liking HOW you express your opinion, you very clearly have a chip on your shoulder that you seem very attached to and take it into threads where it doesn't belong. I'm sure most people love how you express that, what they like is slop and that peoples work is garbage.

You've also referred a couple of times to "taking off the kids gloves" that makes no sense, you "take off the kid gloves" WHEN someone else does something the requires it, who goes around "taking off the kids gloves" to strangers who have never done anything to you????

What you are actually doing is being rude to everyone because a few people upset you. You can't then be surprised when people who had NOTHING to do with you being upset are rude to you. You set the tone.

Sure the language isn't neutral, but "garbage" is pretty mild and colourful language doesn't mean a "biased" opinion whatever that's supposed to mean.

It might "seem" pretty mild to an outside observer but when it's directed at someone and their work it's not mild at all.
Put yourself in a dev's shoes, they work on their game for years, learning coding and posing and the rest and trying to wok on their writing, they try and listen to fans and working on their off days and in some of the little free time they have and then they have this guy come along and call their hard work garbage and slop.

As for biased, he has clearly described what HE expects the scenes to be, what they should offer and what the player should get out of them and any that don't meet this are hacks.

bias

bī′əs
noun

1. A line going diagonally across the grain of fabric.
2. A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.
3. An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice.
4. A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.
5. A weight or irregularity in a ball that causes it to swerve, as in lawn bowling.
6. The tendency of such a ball to swerve.
7. The fixed voltage applied to an electrode.

Is he prejudice against games that use the trope but not inline with his expectation? Yes
Is it fair to called those garbage? No
Hence bias.

If it was his policy to not play the game that is fair. Not support the dev, that is fair. Not recommend them to others, that is fair.
Go into threads and called them garbage and slop, is not fair and even more so when his justification for it is...
"I insult dev's and games I don't like because some fans was rude to me!"

I'm pretty sure he knows it's NOT ok to be rude to his co-workers because a telemarketer pissed him off the day before and if he know that acting like that is wrong why does he think it's ok to act like that here?

 

[morphnet]

Thank you for proving you are the very poster child of stupid argumentation.

Since only creators are allowed to have opinions, why are you sharing yours?

If people ever wonder why I no longer wear kids gloves, this is why. Being personally attacked for having the wherewithal to share my opinion, and that opinion being anything but rimming the asshole and giving a reach around to a developer.

Please quote even one reply in this entire thread where someone has said to you any of the following...
Evolutionkills only creators are allowed opinions
Evolutionkills you are not allowed an opinion
only creators are allowed opinions
you are not allowed an opinion.

and the quote can't be you saying it....

No one in this thread has said anything like that, so why you keep bringing it up and using it to answer people is a mystery.

You also need to drop the exaggerations, no one in this thread expects you to be nice to devs let alone rimming them but you can't even be civil.

rimming a dev <-------- love a dev<-----like a dev<------meh ok---->unkind to dev------>you!

 

[anne O'nymous]

Thank you for proving you are the very poster child of stupid argumentation.

No need to thanks me, all the pleasure was for me.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[Sorry for the double post]

Dunno what the drama's about, I understood what EK meant just fine: The tropes are low-effort but they can be used by better writers if they put in the effort.

Something that was already said 2 500 years ago by Greeks about those fake tragedy authors who just pills up cliché over cliché and pretend to be the next Sophocle.

What I mean is that this is something well know, including by most creators. There's really no need to starts yet another discussion about tropes and their bad use. At least no reason if it's not to explain why their use is bad and how to use them right ; something that he didn't cared to do, just trashing games with generic comments that will change nothing, because not effectively addressing the issues.
And it's precisely the problem with him. Whatever the intent, the only possible result is one person shitting on others work for the sole purpose to shit on it. At no time it will stop the trope, nor will it have a chance to help creators to do it right.

 

[Jaike]

It might "seem" pretty mild to an outside observer but when it's directed at someone and their work it's not mild at all.
Put yourself in a dev's shoes, they work on their game for years, learning coding and posing and the rest and trying to wok on their writing, they try and listen to fans and working on their off days and in some of the little free time they have and then they have this guy come along and call their hard work garbage and slop.

Easy peasy, that describes the art class I had to take for 3 years in school pretty well. I came out fine. And if you put stuff out anywhere there's always a risk of harsh criticism. That's life.

And those harsh reviews are often the most memorable:

Spoiler: Review of My New Family

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Here's RogerEbert.com for

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and

You must be registered to see the links

btw. They're accepted words in criticism.

As for biased, he has clearly described what HE expects the scenes to be, what they should offer and what the player should get out of them and any that don't meet this are hacks.

bias

bī′əs
noun

1. A line going diagonally across the grain of fabric.
2. A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.
3. An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice.
4. A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.
5. A weight or irregularity in a ball that causes it to swerve, as in lawn bowling.
6. The tendency of such a ball to swerve.
7. The fixed voltage applied to an electrode.

Is he prejudice against games that use the trope but not inline with his expectation? Yes
Is it fair to called those garbage? No
Hence bias.

I don't think meaning 3 is what people usually mean with bias in this context, that's more like meaning 2. But okay, you've found a valid definition for bias and biased that supports your point. Too bad I don't care if people's opinion are biased in the way you describe, that's what strong opinions are all about, baby.

And let's be reasonable, EK's expectations aren't impossibly high from what I can tell. They doesn't think devs should exclusively cater to their whims, the stuff written here was more about pushing higher for the quality of writing. And to put it in content they didn't call any specific game here garbage: "People here love to defend their favorite garbage." "Games where every sentence has a grammatical error, because they couldn't even be bothered to dump their MTL garbage into a word processor before putting it into their game." Those are all general statements, not judgments for any single game. And the criticisms were reasoned.

If it was his policy to not play the game that is fair. Not support the dev, that is fair. Not recommend them to others, that is fair.
Go into threads and called them garbage and slop, is not fair and even more so when his justification for it is...
"I insult dev's and games I don't like because some fans was rude to me!"

I'm pretty sure he knows it's NOT ok to be rude to his co-workers because a telemarketer pissed him off the day before and if he know that acting like that is wrong why does he think it's ok to act like that here?

That wasn't their justification though. I don't think going into game threads just calling games garbage and slop is a good use of time, but was they even doing that? Don't get me wrong, I don't value harshness for the sake of harshness and there are reasons why you'd not allow some criticisms in game threads or anywhere, Light of My Life is a good example here, but that doesn't really apply here imo.

I don't think co-workers are a good comparison here, but the point in your example is that the rudeness is directed at the wrong person. While it's our doggiven right to insult every damn telemarketeer that's foolish enough to call us, within reason.

Well, try to do it otherwise then, because I said tons of negative or controversial critics, and never got that kind of comments as answer ; like this one by example that, hmmm, probably crushed some dreams. And this even before I got my badges.
Criticize is always way easier than doing, so if you need to criticize, then at least demonstrate that you know what you talk about and, instead of saying that "this is bad", explain why it is, at least from your point of view. Something that you're clearly missing.




Good thing then that they don't have one.
You fucking tried their game for free, complaining because their game is shit make you looks like an idiot way more than they make them looks like an idiot. After all, they never pretended to be Shakespeare, while you decided to taste if what looks like shit is effectively shit.




Except that Spanish isn't the international language, the one for which you can expect to reach the biggest audience. What, by extension, make it also the language for which you've the biggest chances to find someone who isn't you, someone that will notice the difficulties you have with English and who, seeing some interest in your creation, will help you to improve the translation.
What, here again, say way more regarding you, than regarding those creators. Talking shit about people is way easier than taking your fingers out of your fucking ass, and helping them improve what they are doing.




Like your fucking lazy selfish elitist ass deserve to be roasted for what it is.
You're nothing more than a giant mouth full of craps, ready to shit on everything that don't please you, but that will never make an efforts to help who need help.

And it's the main difference between you and those creators you shit one. At least they are doing something, not keeping their ass on the couch. Of this they can be proud, whatever how much of a failure is the result, they tried. This while the only thing you can be proud of is to have shown the members of this forum what stupidity there's in your brain.




Yeah, ICSTOR is just a lucky guy... It's not like he have made seven finished games since he started in 2015, and will apparently finally finish (rush) his eight one.
Not that there isn't lucky guys but, well, it's like the rest, your mouth size is inversely proportional the one of your brain. You talk a lot, but don't really know what you're talking about. Whatever one can think about him, ICSTOR have way more merit, and put way more efforts in his games, than Braindrop by example.
But you'll not name the second, because it's the first that everyone like to shit on, and here again you're not ready to take some risk, you shit where others shit, whatever if it's the place it should be done or not.

[Sorry for the double post]



Something that was already said 2 500 years ago by Greeks about those fake tragedy authors who just pills up cliché over cliché and pretend to be the next Sophocle.

What I mean is that this is something well know, including by most creators. There's really no need to starts yet another discussion about tropes and their bad use. At least no reason if it's not to explain why their use is bad and how to use them right ; something that he didn't cared to do, just trashing games with generic comments that will change nothing, because not effectively addressing the issues.
And it's precisely the problem with him. Whatever the intent, the only possible result is one person shitting on others work for the sole purpose to shit on it. At no time it will stop the trope, nor will it have a chance to help creators to do it right.

Did you read their posts? Here's a specific criticism of ShyGirlArt and here are criticisms of Jobeo, Blondie Bear and Sinncubus. Now they're not like super detailed, but that's more than just generic comments. And I've seen similar comments about Jobeo and Blondie Bear being edgy from fans of the genre. I only found out about Sinncubus weeks ago a recent quick look at their works but gave me a similar impression.

It's not high-end art criticism, but these are reasoned comments about quality. It's not just shitting.

You are the one making false claims all around.

What you are doing is just looking for an excuse to justify something you dislike into being "objectively worse" when in fact there is no objectivity in any of your points in the first place, remember that we are talking about kinks and spicy scenes in porn games.

You are just a bad critic that fails to realize the flaws in your own logic, nothing more. That's what many bad critics do, they come up with dumb and completely out of place excuses to justify their hate for something not being what they wanted instead of just saying it isn't their cup of tea.

This looks like bluff to me. Can you point out the "false claims" they made "all around", with quotes? And detail "the flaws in" their "own logic" while you're at it?

 

[anne O'nymous]

Did you read their posts?

Some of them yes.

[...] and here are criticisms of Jobeo, Blondie Bear and Sinncubus.

Look back the first on my two posts that you quoted. It's a direct answer to this one... So I was well aware about what he can say about games and how he say it.

Now they're not like super detailed, but that's more than just generic comments.

They aren't detailed at all, at least not in a way that can help the dev to improve.

"A one-trick-pony would be someone like Sinncubus, where they make the same short game over and over again, just with a different coat of paint. Every game is BBC and turbosluts, where the female lead is gargling cock and getting railed within the first minutes of the game. There is the barest pretense of a setting with poorly written dialogue, lots of boring sex built around a singular kink, churned out with the efficiency of a meat packing plant. Sure, there might be an audience they're catering too, but that doesn't make it less hacky."

How this can not qualify as generic comments ? Where are the details ?

So, I'll return you your question, in my answer to this post of him, I put a link to one of my own critic, have you read it ?
I'm sure that you'll have no difficulties to see the difference between his "barest pretense of a setting with poorly written dialogue" and my three paragraphs explaining why the setting is wrong and how it could have been done in order to be more appealing for the players.
He's using a bit more words than the usual "it's shit", but still limits to giving his opinion, without anything to back it up, and even less to help the dev improve his weak point(s). It's bad, and you've to believe him on this, period.

Of course, I'm also saying that it's bad, but I'm explaining why I think so. This let the reader decide by himself if I'm right or not. And it also offer some perspective to the dev, pointing her thoughts to the points I see as weakness.

 

[morphnet]

Easy peasy, that describes the art class I had to take for 3 years in school pretty well. I came out fine.

So your point here is "lots of people act like complete asses to lots of other people AND you came out fine" so that makes it right...o...k...

And if you put stuff out anywhere there's always a risk of harsh criticism. That's life.

"That's life" is a cop-out! defending lack of manners and bad behavior with that is lazy and only adds to the problem.

Here's RogerEbert.com for

You must be registered to see the links

and

You must be registered to see the links

btw. They're accepted words in criticism.

You must be registered to see the links

One lacking the skill of a professional, as in an art.

You must be registered to see the links

one lacking in experience and competence in an art or science

I don't think meaning 3 is what people usually mean with bias in this context, that's more like meaning 2. But okay, you've found a valid definition for bias and biased that supports your point. Too bad I don't care if people's opinion are biased in the way you describe, that's what strong opinions are all about, baby.

Except in this context 2 does not involve an ACT, as in posting.
It doesn't matter if you "care" or not, that was not part of the discussion. You phrased part of your reply in a questioning manner,

Sure the language isn't neutral, but "garbage" is pretty mild and colourful language doesn't mean a "biased" opinion whatever that's supposed to mean.

So I answered you. The discussion also was NOT about strong opinions so not really sure what that has to do with anything baby!

And let's be reasonable, EK's expectations aren't impossibly high from what I can tell. They doesn't think devs should exclusively cater to their whims, the stuff written here was more about pushing higher for the quality of writing.

First, "hey hack your work is garbage and slop! Do this instead..." Is definitely going to make a person more open to mutual discussion and open to accepting new / different ideas..... A person would have to be a complete moron to think that would make others receptive to their views in the hopes of "pushing higher for the quality" anything.
If the goal really was "pushing higher for the quality" anything, then they would use the correct tools and approach....

The truth is EK was pissed and wanted everyone to know it, there was no noble goal of helping to improve anything there.

Second, He wasn't advocating a higher quality of writing, he wanted certain scene setups, game mechanics and writing. If you read what he actually wrote, he wanted player progression, new / different ways of implementing those tropes AND for them to be written in a certain way. In other words, change everything i.e. cater to his whims and tastes.

And to put it in content they didn't call any specific game here garbage: "People here love to defend their favorite garbage."

That is what makes it worse.... If it had been a specific game, he might have had a leg to stand on BUT he was including games he had never played in the generalization and that it just ignorant. How can anyone place judgement on something they know nothing about???

"Games where every sentence has a grammatical error, because they couldn't even be bothered to dump their MTL garbage into a word processor before putting it into their game." Those are all general statements, not judgments for any single game. And the criticisms were reasoned.

Those kinds of replies always make me chuckle, people complaining about grammatical errors when they refuse to use proper grammar in their replies....
Also you are incorrect, those ARE judgments of multiple games as he is comparing them to other games and judging them to be worse.
On a side note for this example, it also shows how narrow the view is, with little to no thought put in. If the person took their MTL garbage and put it in a "word processor" how would they know if what came out was correct?
If they knew it was correct they wouldn't need machine translation to begin with...It is completely over looking the fact that some phrases, terms etc. do not make sense or retain their meaning after translation.

That wasn't their justification though.

I do enjoy discussing things with you but in this case you are dropping the ball...
Please read his replies before defending him.....

"Honestly? Because of people who think I'm not allowed to share, or even have, a negative opinion." <- The part you conveniently cut out.

I'll admit that I don't tend to mince words, and I'm not afraid to be critical. I took it to mean they were curious as to why I'm a bit hard-edged and may come off as hostile at times. It is because of a history across this entire forum of being told my opinion is invalid because of nonsensical bullshit. Asked and answered.

After the umpteenth time someone dismisses your opinion explicitly because you're a non-creator, you kinda stop wearing the kid gloves and worrying about hurting other people's fee-fees. Sorry, not sorry.

I don't think going into game threads just calling games garbage and slop is a good use of time, but was they even doing that? Don't get me wrong, I don't value harshness for the sake of harshness and there are reasons why you'd not allow some criticisms in game threads or anywhere, Light of My Life is a good example here, but that doesn't really apply here imo.

By his own admission he has gone into threads and in his own words "stop wearing kids gloves" and received flak. We have seen in this thread what "stop wearing kid gloves" looks like, do you honestly think he went into threads with an amicable or civil tone? So my point remains valid, you don't go into a thread and be rude to strangers because "someone" was rude to you 2 days ago in a completely different thread.

I don't think co-workers are a good comparison here, but the point in your example is that the rudeness is directed at the wrong person.

A work place seemed the best mirror example for the forums. It has people you see every day but don't know all personally, it has a reason to interact with people you know and don't know and fits when describing how interactions would generally go as well as the consequences of those actions in a somewhat controlled environment.

While it's our doggiven right to insult every damn telemarketeer that's foolish enough to call us, within reason.

I agree and support this 100%

 

[Jaike]

Look back the first on my two posts that you quoted. It's a direct answer to this one... So I was well aware about what he can say about games and how he say it.




They aren't detailed at all, at least not in a way that can help the dev to improve.

"A one-trick-pony would be someone like Sinncubus, where they make the same short game over and over again, just with a different coat of paint. Every game is BBC and turbosluts, where the female lead is gargling cock and getting railed within the first minutes of the game. There is the barest pretense of a setting with poorly written dialogue, lots of boring sex built around a singular kink, churned out with the efficiency of a meat packing plant. Sure, there might be an audience they're catering too, but that doesn't make it less hacky."

How this can not qualify as generic comments ? Where are the details ?

So, I'll return you your question, in my answer to this post of him, I put a link to one of my own critic, have you read it ?
I'm sure that you'll have no difficulties to see the difference between his "barest pretense of a setting with poorly written dialogue" and my three paragraphs explaining why the setting is wrong and how it could have been done in order to be more appealing for the players.
He's using a bit more words than the usual "it's shit", but still limits to giving his opinion, without anything to back it up, and even less to help the dev improve his weak point(s). It's bad, and you've to believe him on this, period.

Of course, I'm also saying that it's bad, but I'm explaining why I think so. This let the reader decide by himself if I'm right or not. And it also offer some perspective to the dev, pointing her thoughts to the points I see as weakness.

I think that's kinda like a category error. Yeah it's not very detailed for feedback, and your post is a lot better in giving suggestions how to improve and has more detail. But giving feedback wasn't the purpose of their post. It was to make clear that Sinncubus meets their standards for being a hack with some arguments. For that it has enough detail to decide that, if the points are true, Sinncubus is a "one-trick-pony". It's in a sense more a rating than constructive feedback. I wouldn't call Sinncubus a hack, that's not really a word I use, but I think they's correct this dev usually does the same thing with kink-driven stories. I didn't know about Sinncubus for long when I read EK's post, but when I looked up Sinncubus' work a while ago I saw the same, very stereotypical blacked raceplay stuff.

Their "rating", let's go with that name, has its own advantages over your constructive feedback. It has clarity and directness, it reads very well in one go. That they doesn't give "anything to back it up" just isn't true as you can read in the quote in your post.

So your point here is "lots of people act like complete asses to lots of other people AND you came out fine" so that makes it right...o...k...

No, it's that you can't assume that harsh or even autistic criticism is going to affect devs very emotionally. And it's usually good to have a thick skin, see if the rude criticism has anything of value, and ignore it or give as you got if it hasn't.

But anyway I don't expect everybody to be kind, or that it's good to be kind. That's religionist nonsense from Abrahamitic superstitions posing as ethics.

"That's life" is a cop-out! defending lack of manners and bad behavior with that is lazy and only adds to the problem.

No, it's realism about how jerks are going to behave online and not "defending" anything except appropriate harsh criticism. I don't believe in being rude against devs for no reason, but those words "hack", "slop" and "garbage" should be fine to use in a review if a reviewer can back that up. Unlike "milker", to give another example, because that violates review rule 3.

Except in this context 2 does not involve an ACT, as in posting.
It doesn't matter if you "care" or not, that was not part of the discussion. You phrased part of your reply in a questioning manner,

So I answered you. The discussion also was NOT about strong opinions so not really sure what that has to do with anything baby!

I mean, if you call someone out on bias, and on supposed anger, the implication is that it's bad and people should care about that. If it's then a meaning of "bias" not many would care about, that kinda weakens the call out.

First, "hey hack your work is garbage and slop! Do this instead..." Is definitely going to make a person more open to mutual discussion and open to accepting new / different ideas..... A person would have to be a complete moron to think that would make others receptive to their views in the hopes of "pushing higher for the quality" anything.
If the goal really was "pushing higher for the quality" anything, then they would use the correct tools and approach....

The truth is EK was pissed and wanted everyone to know it, there was no noble goal of helping to improve anything there.

Second, He wasn't advocating a higher quality of writing, he wanted certain scene setups, game mechanics and writing. If you read what he actually wrote, he wanted player progression, new / different ways of implementing those tropes AND for them to be written in a certain way. In other words, change everything i.e. cater to his whims and tastes.

True on the first part, but you haven't shown EK writing this to devs. It'd be retarded to directly criticise a dev like that. But if the points that are communicated in a really poor way are still valid, it's the dev's fault or problem to ignore it. If someone messages a dev "hey loser, look at all these typos in your game, YOU SUCK", the dev's more than right to be rude back, but checking if those typos are real and using that feedback is just smart.

You're making my point with the second part. Wanting character progression, more creative ways of implementing repetitive tropes and changes to writing is "advocating a higher quality of writing". Flattening that to "catering to his whims and tastes" is a biased way of framing.

Do you have mind reading powers? You've assumed EK's angry before, but there's been no proof of that anywhere. Strongly worded opinions aren't the same as anger.

That is what makes it worse.... If it had been a specific game, he might have had a leg to stand on BUT he was including games he had never played in the generalization and that it just ignorant. How can anyone place judgement on something they know nothing about???

Those kinds of replies always make me chuckle, people complaining about grammatical errors when they refuse to use proper grammar in their replies....
Also you are incorrect, those ARE judgments of multiple games as he is comparing them to other games and judging them to be worse.
On a side note for this example, it also shows how narrow the view is, with little to no thought put in. If the person took their MTL garbage and put it in a "word processor" how would they know if what came out was correct?
If they knew it was correct they wouldn't need machine translation to begin with...It is completely over looking the fact that some phrases, terms etc. do not make sense or retain their meaning after translation.

For context, this is the paragraph you dissected:

And let's be reasonable, EK's expectations aren't impossibly high from what I can tell. They doesn't think devs should exclusively cater to their whims, the stuff written here was more about pushing higher for the quality of writing. And to put it in content they didn't call any specific game here garbage: "People here love to defend their favorite garbage." "Games where every sentence has a grammatical error, because they couldn't even be bothered to dump their MTL garbage into a word processor before putting it into their game." Those are all general statements, not judgments for any single game. And the criticisms were reasoned.

Anyone can see these quotes don't call a specific game garbage.

And those responses are just weird, of course you don't need to play every game in a category to have an opinion about it. "Retard-in-Lechertown games are corruption games with female protagonists with poor characterisation, repetitive plots and lot of use of clichés" is a true statement that describes literally hundreds of Japanese games. That doesn't make it ignorant if you don't play them all...

That they may be judgments of multiple games they's played can be true, but that wasn't the point there. It was that they didn't name any specific games when they talked about garbage.

I do enjoy discussing things with you but in this case you are dropping the ball...
Please read his replies before defending him.....


By his own admission he has gone into threads and in his own words "stop wearing kids gloves" and received flak. We have seen in this thread what "stop wearing kid gloves" looks like, do you honestly think he went into threads with an amicable or civil tone?

I had read them. Your use of

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confused me, because they didn't use them to justify or vindicate their behaviour.

It describes what caused their change in behaviour. It's not a defence why it's right, what an actual justification is.

I think their posts here have been acceptable. I don't find them too angry or whatever. If they were in the same tone, they were fine. Not everybody has to be super nice, that's religionist superstition.

So my point remains valid, you don't go into a thread and be rude to strangers because "someone" was rude to you 2 days ago in a completely different thread.

Sure, that's true.

 

[morphnet]

You're making my point with the second part. Wanting character progression, more creative ways of implementing repetitive tropes and changes to writing is "advocating a higher quality of writing". Flattening that to "catering to his whims and tastes" is a biased way of framing.

"Wanting character progression" is a game mechanic NOT writing. Story progression is writing, character progression i.e. your character has leveled up or your character has received +1 to lewd is game mechanics.....

"more creative ways of implementing repetitive tropes" using his own example of using a different kind of game.....

Spoiler: his example

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Game assets, game mechanics NOT writing.. see how he adds "Plus, because that game has some of the best dialogue" because the mechanic and writing are separate.

"and changes to writing" is writing....

"is "advocating a higher quality of writing" no it's not, it's changing the game AND some writing but mostly the game. Plus adding player progression mechanic or swapping out one game for another doesn't mean the writing will improve.

Do you have mind reading powers? You've assumed EK's angry before, but there's been no proof of that anywhere. Strongly worded opinions aren't the same as anger.

I don't need to have mind reading powers, because everybody already knows you need explain your calm, well thought out, civil replies / comments using the phrase "taking off the kids gloves"....

And those responses are just weird, of course you don't need to play every game in a category to have an opinion about it.

I had read them. Your use of

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confused me, because they didn't use them to justify or vindicate their behaviour.

It describes what caused their change in behaviour. It's not a defence why it's right, what an actual justification is.

I'll admit that I don't tend to mince words, and I'm not afraid to be critical. I took it to mean they were curious as to why I'm a bit hard-edged and may come off as hostile at times. It is because of a history across this entire forum of being told my opinion is invalid because of nonsensical bullshit. Asked and answered.

After the umpteenth time someone dismisses your opinion explicitly because you're a non-creator, you kinda stop wearing the kid gloves and worrying about hurting other people's fee-fees. Sorry, not sorry.

...and from your link....https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/justification ...

b
: an acceptable reason for doing something : something that justifies an act or way of behaving

He used "a history across the entire forums...." to justify (in his own words) ---> may come off as hostile....

I think their posts here have been acceptable. I don't find them too angry or whatever. If they were in the same tone, they were fine. Not everybody has to be super nice, that's religionist superstition.

No one is asking for super nice, how about just civil but even he admits he can see that his replies may be taken as hostile sometimes.

 

[GNVE]

In addition to the reasons stated earlier in this thread, there are yoga pose packs available for Daz that are easy to turn sexual with small changes, since the poses are already quite sensual.

Not just that but Yoga can be done alone and at home. For football (both kinds) hockey (both kinds), basketball, handball, rugby, korfball and most other sports you need a team. Possibly a sports field set (they are few and far between) or at least an outdoor set of some kind.
So it is a lot harder to make a character do different sports.
So it is a combination of lack of poses, sets, outfits and props in combination with the need to make a team of people and posing them for other sports that it is a no-brainer to go for Yoga.

Because tropes are the Easy Button for lazy hacks.

See Also: The ubiquity of Truth or Dare and Spin the Bottle.

Why bother working to make actual characters when you can just have them play a game to get naked? Not to say that everyone who tosses in a yoga scene is a hack, but few rise above the trope to do anything interesting with it. Few use such an encounter creatively or as a chance to character build. Most just use it as an excuse to ogle and nothing else.

I think truth or dare, spin the bottle and never have I ever are generally important character building moments. IRL they offer ways for teens to explore there sexuality and compare themselves to their peers under the guise of a game. It is also a safe way to explore certain things "Oh no... I have to kiss hot girl/guy... I am powerless those are the rules of the game... Oh shucks..."
Though I agree with you that a lot of devs jump the shark a little bit and go too fast in the build up.

As for tropes there are reasons things are tropes. Sometimes they are relatively easy to implement sexily sometimes there is an expectation from the audience and sometimes it can be a shorthand to establish certain characteristics for a character.

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.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I think that's kinda like a category error. Yeah it's not very detailed for feedback, and your post is a lot better in giving suggestions how to improve and has more detail. But giving feedback wasn't the purpose of their post. It was to make clear that Sinncubus meets their standards for being a hack with some arguments. For that it has enough detail to decide that, if the points are true, Sinncubus is a "one-trick-pony".

But in the end what is the gain for the community ? Because I'm old, and perhaps naive, but starting the moment when it's not a professional who write the critic, I do believe that it should lead to a benefit for the community, whatever which one.

Perhaps that what I wrote will be heard but the team behind the game, and we will have an improved game. Or perhaps that it will not be heard by them, but it have been be read by others, some who are making, or want to make, a game.
Strictly speaking I don't care to be heard and to be believed. I presented a point of view, explain why I have it, and gave one, among others, way to solve what I see as an issue. This start a thinking process, and it's the goal I tried to reach. I show the project under another point of view, and the convergence between this point of view, and the creator point of view, will lead to something.

But, yeah, what is the gain in saying that a creator is a hack ?
People who will agree already thought it, and those who didn't agreed with this before will not suddenly change their mind because someone said it.
People don't change their mind because they read a statement, they change their mind because they were offered something to think about. And it happen that, once they thought about it, they see the whole situation under a different light.
So, like I probably said, the only interest is for the ego of the writer. Not really different from all the "this guy is milking, stop giving it your money" threads and posts. Except that here it's more on the side of "this guy don't deserve your money".

It's in a sense more a rating than constructive feedback.

But rules say that you must not rate according of the creator.
So, is it really important that this guy is a hack if, in the end, his games have their public ? It don't impact the pleasure one can have to play the game, and saying it will not lead to changes in his future games.
Anyway, he isn't the first one (*cough*Slonique*cough*) and neither will he be the last one.

[...] but when I looked up Sinncubus' work a while ago I saw the same, very stereotypical blacked raceplay stuff.

So the average BBC story. Something that exist in porn, movies, photo series, and comics since decades. And that now also exist in games.
But can't the same be said for some creators who specialized in incest or futa ? Or that one who make always the same never finished incest futa game, with always the same game mechanism and interface, that always lead to the same inconsistent story where event happen in a chaotic order that make no sense, with always the same models, really few changes in the story, and always the same obscure progression map ? He did this so often that now that his current game have a male MC, it feel odd and players are probably waiting for boobs to grow one day.

Can't we also say the same for all those creators who tried to make a Dating my Daughter or big brother 2.0 ? Aren't they hack, them who took a succeeding idea and tried to do the same with nearly no change ?
Talking about those two games, what about the many unofficial wanabe sequels ? Big sister, Big brother in space, Little sister... There were an attempt for a Dating my Daughter sequel where the daughter became a slut-like an was trying to collect sugar daddies. Aren't all those guys hack who try to benefit from the fame that someone else had with his game ?
And Hope Gaming, isn't he a hack, he who write a story that clearly used Saint Rows series as inspiration for the craziness of the DeLuca Family ? God, he even put the heraldic Lily as background for many screens.

There isn't many creators for who no one would be able to explain why, from his point of view, this person is a hack. Therefore, in the end, once again, what is the interest to say it for this one, or in fact for anyone of them ?

 

[Fate stay]

This is the reason why.