Why does it seem like so many devs are averse to impregnation? (Thread is NOT about implementing pregnancy in games)

[harem.king]

For one, it's just not everyone's kink

it is the kink of more than 70% of people. that is a supermajority.

 

[defnotalt]

it is the kink of more than 70% of people. that is a supermajority.

Not saying it's not, but I'd like solid proof for such confidence.

 

[harem.king]

Not saying it's not, but I'd like solid proof for such confidence.

... there is a poll in this thread.
11.8% of people actively dislike impregnation
72.1% actively like impregnation
the rest abstain.

 

[c3p0]

... there is a poll in this thread.
11.8% of people actively dislike impregnation
72.1% actively like impregnation
the rest abstain.
View attachment 4669545

And 136 vote. So yes, for the 136 of the votes, the 98 is a majority that likes impregnation. For the 8.5 million of users here the 136 votes or even the around 4k visit are nothing at all.

 

[Count Morado]

... there is a poll in this thread.
11.8% of people actively dislike impregnation
72.1% actively like impregnation
the rest abstain.
View attachment 4669545

This is an invalid survey. You know this. By citing the survey, itself, you are being disingenous.

I can pick at least 4 bias issues with the survey - from a short list of the 6 most common survey bias issues with nullify the results:

 

[harem.king]

And 136 vote. So yes, for the 136 of the votes, the 98 is a majority that likes impregnation. For the 8.5 million of users here the 136 votes or even the around 4k visit are nothing at all.

136 is a decent enough sample size.

This is an invalid survey. You know this. By citing the survey, itself, you are being disingenous.

I can pick at least 4 bias issues with the survey - from a short list of the 6 most common survey bias issues with nullify the results:
View attachment 4669577

No, YOU are the one who is disingenuous.

1. biases skew a survery rather than making it invalid. That means it might be off by a certain number of points.

2. Literally any survey about this fetish will have the exact same biases or worse as this thread.

3. you are reaching very very hard with those biases.

a. wording bias: the word on this survery is fantastically neutral. With MANY options to let people cover all their options. In fact, you can actually SEE it in the difference between "pregnancy sex" and "impregnation". A wording bias would be to have only one of those and claim it applies to both. Or to have misleading wording

b. non-response bias is for chosen sample. Nobody was given orders to vote and said they refuse. This is not this kind of survey.

c. Voluntary response bias: this is something that exists in all surveys on all subjects. But is only actually a problem if it actually causes a bias. That is, there needs to be a disproportionate number of people from one side of the argument who refuse to answer the survey. If you have a blatantly political organization asking people a survey, then people from the other side are less likely to answer it.
this isn't applicable here.

d. selection bias: this is the only one that MIGHT actually be an issue in this case. There are two layers to this
d1. people not in F95: this is disingenuous because it was obviously talking about the F95 population rather than worldwide population.
d2. people on side of this issue might be less like to enter this thread: possible. but we have no evidence that this is the case. just your assertion.

At the end of the day we have a fantastically well made survey with very clear results. which you just don't like so you are misrepresenting the issues of surveys as a gotcha attempt

 

[c3p0]

136 is a decent enough sample size.

For what? And based on what? Eg.

You must be registered to see the links

would still give me 164 people for confident level of 80% that this sampe would represent the 8.5 million users here (so one poll of out of 5 polls wouldn't represent them at all) with an error margin of 5%.

 

[defnotalt]

... there is a poll in this thread.
11.8% of people actively dislike impregnation
72.1% actively like impregnation
the rest abstain.
View attachment 4669545

The people more likely to enter this thread are people willing to have a conversation about it. I'm afraid that already discards over 90% of F95's userbase in a non-random(skewed) manner.

The vast majority of F95 users barely ever comment, just lurk the games subforum/latest updates and never touch other subforums, let alone discuss things about porn. And if it isn't obvious, the type of people who engage in the F95 community and the type of people who just lurk are very different, or at the very least, you cannot prove they are similar. So no, this thread is not a good sample for the entirety of F95.

 

[tanstaafl]

136 is a decent enough sample size.

lol, it proves that 70% of 136 people that visit the f95 general forum and click on a thread with "impregnation" in the title like impregnation games.

What does this mean? It means NOTHING because the sample is shit, lol. And you know it. Actually, I hope you know it, because if you don't know it then I weep for...well, your whole life.

 

[harem.king]

The people more likely to enter this thread are people willing to have a conversation about it. I'm afraid that already discards over 90% of F95's userbase in a non-random(skewed) manner.

Yes, BUT, does this actually introduce a bias.

Is there a connection between people willing to discuss or vote on the issue, and either of the 2 sides of this debate?
are pro preg more willing to discuss the issue?
are anti preg more willing to discuss the issue?

every survey ever has this possibility of bias. But that does not mean that surveys are useless. Just that you need to take steps to minimize the biases and their effect.

 

[user115637]

People discussing statistics and debating about research methodology on a fictional porn pirate forum. The most peculiar.

 

[defnotalt]

Yes, BUT, does this actually introduce a bias.

Is there a connection between people willing to discuss or vote on the issue, and either of the 2 sides of this debate?
are pro preg more willing to discuss the issue?
are anti preg more willing to discuss the issue?

every survey ever has this possibility of bias. But that does not mean that surveys are useless. Just that you need to take steps to minimize the biases and their effect.

I could write multiple paragraphs on educated guesses, but it would be a waste of effort. The main issue is that for this poll to be a good enough sample, at least two non-trivial conditions would need to be proven true:

1. People interested in F95 discussions on average are equivalent in preferences than people just lurking in the site.
2. People willing to enter this thread on average are equivalent in preferences than people who ignore it.

I don't think these conditions can be assumed to be true, so I personally don't trust the poll results to be extrapolated to F95 as a whole. That's the gist of it.

People discussing statistics and debating about research methodology on a fictional porn pirate forum. The most peculiar.

Wait until you realize 3/4 of the IT infrastructure in the US is managed and maintained by furries

 

[Death Panda]

People discussing statistics and debating about research methodology on a fictional porn pirate forum. The most peculiar.

If it were just that would be fine. But asking for proof, receiving the proof, and then proceeding to just jerk each other off while nitpicking said proof, yeah this entire site is a cesspit.

 

[Stalker Seducer]

PLEASE READ FIRST: THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHY THERE ISN'T PREGNANCY IN MORE GAMES, NOR IS IT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT DEVS OUGTH TO HAVE THAT CONTENT OR NOT.

First off, I get why some devs don't want full pregnancy in a game. Finding and/or creating pregnant models isn't easy, if it's optional then it doubles the workload, and if it isn't then it might put off some players, and I know some folks just don't like sex scenes with pregnant chicks or even seeing pregnant girls at all. It puts off some folks as much as seeing a fat girl forced into a game might. Personally sex with a pregnant chick (as in with the full belly) is kind of whatever for me, I don't mind it but it doesn't often add enough to the scene to be a big deal. So, all that is good, I get it, no problem there. I’m not really talking about pregnancy sex or even necessarily something like an epilogue image of girls being pregnant though that I don’t think should cause as much of an issue. So, I'm setting all that aside for now.

With that being said, why is there seemingly such an aversion to impregnation in general or even letting players keep the illusion of it for even just the sex scene? Even in games with pregnancy for some girls, there seems to be a need from devs to uncut the possibility of impregnation with girls all the time. Where devs have decided that because it isn't time for it yet, they need to explain away the moment instead of just leaving it for the player to fill in the blanks.

This can range in extremes. Some devs, for example, force condoms on the Mc when he bangs girls. Other games might force the Mc to pull out. Which just FYI to all the devs out there, is NOT an effective form of birth control, even precum can have jizz in it and from the moment you feel your release coming on you are already leaking the baby batter, basic biology. Other devs allow the option to creampie, but then have the girl (or worse the Mc) talk about being on the pill or getting a pill to undercut the moment.

I mean, we’re all adults here, we all know that if you nut in a chick she could get knocked up, but we all also know that even having unprotected sex and nutting in her, even when she’s ovulating, isn’t guaranteed to lead to pregnancy even IRL. So why the seemingly pathological need to uncut the player’s choice to roll the dice? Especially when the chick in the game asks the Mc to nut in her when you pick that choice but then she immediately says right after that, “I’m on the pill,” or something similar. And worst is when the Mc after that type of scene says something like, “You’re on the pill right?” Or similar. And again, I’ve even seen these types of dialogues pop up in games with confirmed pregnancy in the future. I’ve even seen it happen in games that are literally built around the breeding fetish.

And all of this leaves aside the fact that these are fiction stories, often in fantastical worlds or settings, so if the dev doesn’t want to have pregnancy or impregnation, then it just won’t happen. Now, you might say, “But if the Mc can nut in a girl then people will expect that to mean that impregnation is possible unless the dev explains that it isn’t.” To that I have a few responses: one is that the dev can just make this clear in the game's overview. Just say, “There are no plans for impregnation or pregnancy in the game.” Two is that you can also have the Mc and a girl have this conversation outside of the actual sex scene. Either the next day or even before the sex, if you really feel the need to have it explicitly stated. And the dev can do this without undercutting the player’s agency or illusion of choice. And that is one of the reasons it bothers me. The way many devs choose to address not having impregnation (again, not even avoiding pregnancy but just the illusion of allowing impregnation) undercuts both player agency and even the illusion of choices mattering and it usually does it right at the moment of making the choice.

Another thing to keep in mind is that dialogue is the easiest thing to do in Ren’Py and impregnation can be done with one variable and an extra line of dialogue or two once or twice in the whole game, even using the same renders as if it wasn’t in the game.

Anyway, I could go on, but I think most people will get the point of this post. Basically I’m wondering why it seems like so many devs have a pathological aversion to impregnation and feel like they have to undercut so many sex scenes with forced condoms, pullout, or contraceptive talks. And If I’m the only one who has noticed this and finds it not just odd, but off putting and like it ruins a lot of what would otherwise be romantic or emotional poignant moments in games.

Pregnancy is cringe.

 

[DoodlesTheBob]

Same goes for koikatsu, and I would guess HS as well. It's real easy.

As for why devs avoid it? I would say it's just because they want to. I don't think there's any deep reason for it.

Actually it has to do with the hysteria and pearl clutching around the rapelay time period. Essentially, they were saying that it is sick that men have a desire to impregnate women as a fetish in porn games because it reduces women to baby machines. Some governments (Uk) even ban any porn featuring various fetishes or acts despite the fact the acts are legal in the comfort of your own home such as watersports or fisting.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

Actually it has to do with the hysteria and pearl clutching around the rapelay time period. Essentially, they were saying that it is sick that men have a desire to impregnate women as a fetish in porn games because it reduces women to baby machines. Some governments (Uk) even ban any porn featuring various fetishes or acts despite the fact the acts are legal in the comfort of your own home such as watersports or fisting.

Yeah... that has absolutely nothing to do with why devs avoid putting it in games nowadays. Like, at all.

 

[DoodlesTheBob]

Yeah... that has absolutely nothing to do with why devs avoid putting it in games nowadays. Like, at all.

I think you don't understand. A lot of the themes in rapelay are implicitly illegal or just not done because of social peer pressure. The united nations is sticking it's nose in, and western gender ideology has an ever increasing presence there. The developers are people who live in their society. It's like you couldn't have Rumble Roses and BMX XXX made in 2018ish if you wanted to keep working in gamedev, should your current company ever let you go. You'd be canceled. Or like remasters of Bully and Grand theft auto got content removed.

Sure, it might not be explicitly illegal to fetishize pregnant characters and giving them a broodmare treatment, but you have to be brazenly "fuck society" to go about doing that under your real name. This is a culture where getting so much as probation is enough where you lose contracts and work. ( See Mamare Touno, and how long Log Horizen went on hiatus for simple probation. )

TLR = People's motivations and fears are complex. Social pressure and chilling effects.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

I think you don't understand.

I understand perfectly well what you mean. But that's really not why game devs aren't adding pregnancy. They really just don't want to because of all the extra work. It's that simple, there's no conspiracy here. As for why they have lines like "Good thing I'm on the pill", they think it'll stop people from asking for it. It's really not complicated.

 

[DoodlesTheBob]

I understand perfectly well what you mean. But that's really not why game devs aren't adding pregnancy. They really just don't want to because of all the extra work. It's that simple, there's no conspiracy here. As for why they have lines like "Good thing I'm on the pill", they think it'll stop people from asking for it. It's really not complicated.

It's really that much extra work compared to any other systems, animations or outfits. It just takes preplanning so you're not having to retrofit and add extra bones or morph targets after the fact.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

It just takes preplanning

If there's one thing I've learned in my time on the dev forums, preplanning is not a very common thing. We've even got a thread talking about how much we're all winging it and learning as we go.