Why is Patreon still more popular than Subscribestar?

[jamdan]

You can be successful on SStar, but if Patreon is an option for fans it seems to get significantly more donations.

Personally, I think the best route is to have both. It isn't difficult to get around Patreon's guidelines, they don't check anything on their own. If Patreon do end up doing anything because someone reported you, just move over to your already established SStar.

As far as crypto gos, that stuff is just...I don't really have a good description for it. But it isn't good. Those big crypto plantations are one of, if not the main, reasons GPU's cost an arm and a leg these days. The average Crypto Joe can't hold a candle to those things.

 

[aura-dev]

Biggest issue for me as a developer with subscribestar is the lack of integrations. Itch has a patreon integration, so when my automatically triggered daily / weekly builds get uploaded by my build pipeline, patrons get automated, immediate access. To my knowledge, subscribestar doesn't have anything like that.

 

[Luderos]

Part of patreon's problem with accepting and auto converting crypto into fiat is that they become a defacto exchange, or at least crypto exit point, and as such liable for all the various and ever changing kyc rules across the world that exchanges have to deal with.

Is crypto kyc more onerous than normal banking kyc, because they're already having to deal with that, right?

 

[Droid Productions]

Is crypto kyc more onerous than normal banking kyc, because they're already having to deal with that, right?

Since they pay out through PayPal and payoneer, that becomes someone else's problem. And yeah, crypto payouts have become really painful, at least where I am.

 

[Doorknob22]

And there's also SubscribeStar's "you can't get your money before you've US$ XXX", who isn't really engaging for the creators. The minimal amount seem to now depend of your country, but for most creators it still mean that they can only get your money at most every two months.


Plus there's the lack of transparency regarding what SubscribeStar is. They expect us to let them deal with our money, the least they can do is to be fully transparent, in order to gain our trust.

Patreon is doing it, we know exactly "who they are". It's a company registered in the USA, created by Jack Conte and Sam Yam, and located in San Francisco, 600 townsend Street. Go there, and you'll see the company office, you'll be able to enter it, talk with the people working here and the owner ; well, all this being relative, they'll probably not let a random guy enter this easily.

But for SubscribeStar, it's a radically different story. To know anything about them, you need to dig through the archives of different US institutions. You'll then learn that the company is registered in the USA, but actually registered under the name of some guy living in Russia. I say "actually", because if you dig deep enough, you'll see that it's not the same person who created the company.
The fact that the owner live in Russia isn't really important. What matter is that the company is registered in one country, while the owner live in another one. Worse, he live in a country that, without a single doubt, have no intent to one day follow any decision made by the US justice.
As for the location of the company, last time I took a look, it was just a mailbox managed by a company that manage a lot of mailboxes, for a lot of very strange web sites. Web sites that, for most, have a really short live span ; who would have believed that selling rocks supposed to protect you from all deceases isn't a really successful activity ?
It doesn't mean that SubscribeStar is suspicious, but it's enough to say that it's shady. Too shady for a company that expect to win our trust because they'll have to deal with our money. Imagine that PayPal was as obfuscated than this, would you really trust them ?

As a developer, I've been using SubStar since the launch of my game in February 2021. I knew Patreon would give me trouble for all the fetishes in my game and I didn't want to walk on eggshells around them, I wanted to develop my game my way.

SubStar has been awesome for me since day one.

"you can't get your money before you've US$ XXX" never bothered me and the rest just... works. When I contacted their support they replied with a good answer, the money arrives when I initiate a transfer I see no missing funds or anything shady. For what's it's worth, SubStar is great for this creator.

 

[Luderos]

Well, using crypto as a store of value is a bit different than just using it transactionally. If you can buy some crypto and make your transaction using it a few minutes later, it doesn't really matter what the current exchange rate on it is. (Maybe it's not currently that simple, but it should be.) And it seems like adult, digital products would be the perfect example of a thing people would want to use crypto to buy.

 

[ZephyrCloack]

Recently all I have heard about NSFW game devs and Patreon is complaints about Patreon's strict guidelines and shitty management. I'm just wondering why any dev even bothers with it at this point? If your game is not 100% vanilla then you can just get nuked with no warning. Why is Subscribestar not the go to for this type of content? I can think of a few possible reasons myself, but I'm just curious whether there's a deeper explanation to why people still roll the dice with Patreon.

Well simply because it's an unavoidable argument for any content creator (even SFW content has to face ToS) and controversial content comes along with policing, since there are laws to be followed and (ToS) ends up pretty much protecting both the Service as well as the Developer from infractions.
On a different note some lines in Patreon (ToS) can be miss-interpreted and some restrictions to broadly defined, creating room for miss-interpretation, which generates discussion until found common ground (if ever).

Avoiding Patreon and going to any other service does not prevent them from finding these altercations since they originate from law enforment;
While if a service is found to constantly ignore the laws of the country or market it's subjected to, there are consequences to that as well.

The Biggest pool of customers aren't exactly found in illegal/unlawful markets.

In the end it will revolve on what's easier for the majority of supporters (paying customers) to use and how trustworthy the medium is.

Not sure why you have a problem with crypto. It will change the world for the better and remove the power from corporations like patreon to control developers with their terms of service.

Crypto has issues that have yet to be resolved before it can be sang as the perfect modern world currency, i won't develop on that i'll just suggest before doing such statements to share your findings on that topic, since i like to better educate myself;

"It will change the world for the better..." Mark Zuckerberg hoped his vision of facebook would do that,
today facebook inspires articles like

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;

Cellphones the tool that changed the world, now today society can witness the problems it introduced extending from addiction to heaven knows where, while giving other companies power on things they were never meant to actually have access to.

In terms of ToS, crypto won't do shit, ultimately those developers are still subjected to the laws of their countries and they have to answer to that, if anything the more money following a certain way will just invite attention from authorities, Patreon in that regard serves as a legality firewall and an alarm for most devs when they step on the line or a leash to those that constantly walk on the dark side.

Though don't be unaware of the fact with Patreon without Patreon it's just the same, though the punishments can be worse and certain countries aren't as understanding or forgiving.

 

[Crestrial]

Paypal protects my credit card information. SubscribeStar doesn't do Paypal. Simple as.

 

[Wolf Larsen]

Paypal protects my credit card information. SubscribeStar doesn't do Paypal. Simple as.

Paypal is a huge advantage for Patreon, although people here hate it because some adult content started getting purged after the addition of Paypal.

 

[Asia Argento]

I think it simply boils down to how well-known Patreon is. Practically everyone knows and trusts them with their credit card info without a second thought. Subscibestar is too niche and people are wary of it.

This. Plus, Patreon can be for ANYTHING. SS is obviously purely ADULT content. People are wary of porn appearing on their card AND SS doesnt work with Paypal. You have to use an alternate card somehow. It's moderately inconvenient.

 

[morphnet]

Well, using crypto as a store of value is a bit different than just using it transactionally. If you can buy some crypto and make your transaction using it a few minutes later, it doesn't really matter what the current exchange rate on it is. (Maybe it's not currently that simple, but it should be.) And it seems like adult, digital products would be the perfect example of a thing people would want to use crypto to buy.

Except the threads title is "Why is Patreon still more popular than Subscribestar?" and not "how to make patreon better?" so crypto really has nothing to do with the topic at hand.....

 

[Carpe Stultus]

Patreon has a bigger community and has more payment methods. Thats all there is.

 

[Thin Bastard]

Ultimately it comes down to generic vs proprietary. Subscribestar is the generic option while Patreon is the proprietary option.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

The main problem is alot of people don't think about or see the big picture, if you are a christian creating religious art or a programmer trying to make software for schools, would you want people to see in their search results that the place you are asking people to give money to also has people making games where young boys drug their mom and sister so they can have sex with them? Not only is there a chance that creators would stop using patreon but their is a chance other companies would stop working with them and that is REALLY bad for business.

If porn is so bad for their business, then they could just ban all porn on their platform no?
But they do not do that. How interesting don't you think?

The way i see it, Patreon is a typical hypocrite.
They want money porn brings but at the same time they want to make themselves look "holier than thou."
Even Valve understood how much money there is waiting for them in the rising porn market and allowed it on steam, there is no way Shitreon doesn't understand.

 

[moskyx]

If porn is so bad for their business, then they could just ban all porn on their platform no?
But they do not do that. How interesting don't you think?

The way i see it, Patreon is a typical hypocrite.
They want money porn brings but at the same time they want to make themselves look "holier than thou."
Even Valve understood how much money there is waiting for them in the rising porn market and allowed it on steam, there is no way Shitreon doesn't understand.

Both Patreon and Steam allows adult games on their platform. Which, to me, means they are ok with that content both morally (looking at you, Apple) and of course financially (even if it's just a fraction of their business, it's still business). They just set different rules about allowed content (Steam won't allow an adult game with an underage character on it, even though said character is not involved in any lewd) and enforces them differently too: Patreon usually asks devs for changes before deleting the account (and that's only when they find about it), while Steam just nukes all the game's uploaded by the same curator (no matter if there's only 1 game from 1 particular dev breaking the rules, all games from all devs published by the same curator will be nuked with no possible appeal).

Basically, they are just two different companies with different leverage when it comes to negotiate their commercial agreements with payment processors, but I don't think one is 'holier' or 'more hypocrite' than the other. And, in the end, even the big fishes who impose those content limitations on them are also forced to do so to comply with some idiotic US law regarding digital creations, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread.

 

[anne O'nymous]

The way i see it, Patreon is a typical hypocrite.
They want money porn brings but at the same time they want to make themselves look "holier than thou."

With US$ 220.xxx/month, the creator who earn

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, generate just a bit less than the

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(US$ 248.xxx/month).
Put together, the 6 non adult creators who earn more than US$ 100.xxx/month, earn just 3.xxx less than the top 50 adult games creators put together (US$ 848.xxx/month Vs US$ 851.xxx/month). As for the top 50 creators, once the adult game creators removed, they more than surely earn more than all the adult games creators put together.
So, no, Patreon don't want the money that porn brings. In fact Patreon don't care about the money porn brings, because porn brings more trouble with their partners than it brings money.

If Patreon still host adult content, it's because, as Paul Conte (Patreon CEO and co-founder) often say, Patreon's goal is to offer a platform for the greatest number of creators.
This imply that a part of them will not be promoted, in order to not risk to offense the others. And this also imply that Patreon had to make some compromise ; the magic four ban. This way, a small part of adult content creators are banned, while the biggest part of them still can use Patreon.

But as I said, this generate more problems than money. Patreon had to reinforce its security/moderation team, had to make an US$ 70 millions deposit as security fund, and had to pass through rough negotiation with their partners. And obviously, this content take some place on their servers and bandwidth.
Of course, it worth the pain, since adult content generate around 10% of Patreon benefits. But Patreon could perfectly live without those 10% and, due to the implied lower costs, they would in fact loose less than 10% of their benefits.

You must be registered to see the links

, post: 8358972, member: 3590149"]
Even Valve understood how much money there is waiting for them in the rising porn market and allowed it on steam, there is no way Shitreon doesn't understand.

Ah, Steam... The marvelous platform that allow adult and porn content, but still refuse to give the rules that have to be followed for this content to be accepted.
You should ask Google, there's some really amazing mail exchanges between adult creators and Steam. Globally, Steam expect creators to make game that are acceptable accordingly to their conditions, but refuse to tell them what are those conditions.


Edit: Oh, The forum is broken

 

[Impious Monk]

As a developer, I've been using SubStar since the launch of my game in February 2021. I knew Patreon would give me trouble for all the fetishes in my game and I didn't want to walk on eggshells around them, I wanted to develop my game my way.

SubStar has been awesome for me since day one.

"you can't get your money before you've US$ XXX" never bothered me and the rest just... works. When I contacted their support they replied with a good answer, the money arrives when I initiate a transfer I see no missing funds or anything shady. For what's it's worth, SubStar is great for this creator.

Have you heard from anyone who said they don't subscribe to your SubcribeStar but would subscribe if you had a Patreon?

 

[Doorknob22]

Have you heard from anyone who said they don't subscribe to your SubcribeStar but would subscribe if you had a Patreon?

Very rarely but yes. I do assume I’m losing some subscribers because of that but I consider it “the cost of doing business my way”… I don’t have time or patience to play cat-and-mouse with Patreon admins. I want to focus on creating, even at the cost of losing potential subscribers.

 

[morphnet]

If porn is so bad for their business, then they could just ban all porn on their platform no?
But they do not do that. How interesting don't you think?

The way i see it, Patreon is a typical hypocrite.
They want money porn brings but at the same time they want to make themselves look "holier than thou."
Even Valve understood how much money there is waiting for them in the rising porn market and allowed it on steam, there is no way Shitreon doesn't understand.

No one said porn was bad for business not sure where you got that from? Taboo's and extreme taboo's are bad for business which is why patreon still allow porn games on their platform and steam does now too. FYI they also allow real nude photo's and erotic clips on their site so I'm not sure where you get the "they want to make themselves look "holier than thou." statement from?????

Even steam doesn't allow people to sell "real life" nudes and erotic clips.... why? because they are a gaming / software / hardware platform. Patreon allows porn games, nudies, erotic clips...but NOT incest and extreme taboo's not sure how that make them a "hypocrite"

If you actually read my reply I used "games where young boys drug their mom and sister so they can have sex with them?" which is incest and shota, which is what they are banning.... I never said anything about normal porn

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

No one said porn was bad for business not sure where you got that from?

So you say, and then go and say:

Taboo's and extreme taboo's are bad for business

Which is basically saying porn is bad for business, because all of this is porn as well.

so I'm not sure where you get the "they want to make themselves look "holier than thou." statement from?????

From the fact that they want to look good to all those banks and payment systems they deal with, prudish banks and payment systems that hate porn that is. Yet, at the same time, they want money porn brings as well.
So they deliberately invent vague rules that allow them to basically do whatever the fuck they want.
This makes both steam and patreon unreliable because you never know when they will simply ban you without any explanation.
I imagine few porn game creators have time for this shit, so i think eventually everyone will move to sub star and similar, porn-focused platforms.