Why the hate against certain game engines? (especially Unity or Unreal)

[Nuverotic]

Unity and Unreal are both proprietary software, and when better options like Godot exist, then using any of those is kind of dumb. In addition, both require a lot of optimization to not run like bad, because both engines uses resources most dev don't even need.

Dude just said, "Engines like Unreal and Unity when 'better' options like GODOT exist"... lol. I can't tell if this guys trolling or he's just got a hard on for open source so he feels the need to shit on anything that isn't.

Purists like these are what cause stale oversaturation of games, movies, comics, whatever. As a developer, the more you branch out into other game engines and maker better games, the better it is for everyone. Gatekeepers and Purists have no place in townhall discussions.

 

[That other person]

Anyways, in my opinion, people "hate" on Unity and Unreal because of game performance.
In Unity there is quite a lot you have to do yourself, and if you have just started, there is a lot you could do wrong by simply keeping the default options, which impacts both performance and memory usage.

This. Performance usually sucks in these games. They often have a lot of issues and crash and take your cpu like crazy for no reason to the point in which you wonder if you just got a virus, but no, the engines are just shitting themselves due to who knows what.

If someone made a good experience with these engines I'm sure they would receive attention. I think there are some games that managed to be decent, but are incomplete. This one, Sin Spire, is good, it works fine, but at the start it lags hard due to the fog. The rest of the game works fine (so far) so it's not a problem, but yeah. Somehow I can run RE2 Remake well, but this one lags because of some fog...

That's the problem, performance, usually.

 

[Nuverotic]

This. Performance usually sucks in these games. They often have a lot of issues and crash and take your cpu like crazy for no reason to the point in which you wonder if you just got a virus, but no, the engines are just shitting themselves due to who knows what.

If someone made a good experience with these engines I'm sure they would receive attention. I think there are some games that managed to be decent, but are incomplete. This one, Sin Spire, is good, it works fine, but at the start it lags hard due to the fog. The rest of the game works fine (so far) so it's not a problem, but yeah. Somehow I can run RE2 Remake well, but this one lags because of some fog...

That's the problem, performance, usually.

The problem isn't performance... It's developers not optimizing their games. Unreal has a lot of features, and a lot of things you have to be aware of and optimize. Most developers are too lazy to go around optimizing every texture, material, light, landscape, tree, mesh, etc etc...

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

The problem isn't performance... It's developers not optimizing their games. Unreal has a lot of features, and a lot of things you have to be aware of and optimize. Most developers are too lazy to go around optimizing every texture, material, light, landscape, tree, mesh, etc etc...

Goes for most AAA devs too, sadly.

 

[dooka58]

That's the problem, performance, usually.

I understand why performance can be an issue when using certain engines. But again, we already talked about how that's only because we run into amateur developers, and it not really the fault of a specific engine. I get that it's more prone to happen, but the choice of game engine doesn't actually indicate performance, only in a very general sense (e.g. text vs. 3d graphics).

I didn't expect this thread to last this long. 5 years ago, I was just annoyed because I kept running into posts where people said they'd refuse to play due to the game's engine. It seems like most devs were already using Ren'Py and RPGMaker, so there's no reason to leave negative posts in the few games that try to incorporate other genres and playstyles without even trying them. VNs are all right, but they're not my first preference for gameplay, and the lack of variety is already prevalent without more piling on.

This issue has only marginally gotten better in the intervening years, and personally, I think that's uninteresting and led me to visit this site less. I mean, I prefer actual novels and audiobooks if I just want a story without gameplay, and I could also just watch porn/hentai if the visuals are important. IMO, there's tons of potential that's only being funneled into very narrow formats. I'm not sure if it's because most devs are noobs or if they think the audience only wants like 2 things, probably both.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

I'm not sure if it's because most devs are noobs or if they think the audience only wants like 2 things, probably both.

While not untrue, there's an additional metric. Time. 99% of us don't make enough to justify anything beyond making these games in our free time. The ROI just isn't there for most of us to be using more complex engines to make more complex games. If you don't already have the skills, it's hard to justify learning them for less than 100$ a month.

 

[dooka58]

While not untrue, there's an additional metric. Time...

Yeah, I totally get that some devs are basically hobbyists doing stuff for practically free. I don't really blame anyone for sticking to the known formats or even screwing up the performance. I just don't want people to discourage devs from using different engines, and it doesn't have to be very complex, but to simply incorporate other basic gameplay elements from various genres. I think part of the problem were posts like I described, where the person who hasn't played yet is trashing the engine, but I haven't seen this type of attitude recently, although I haven't been reading many threads.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

Yeah, I totally get that some devs are basically hobbyists doing stuff for practically free. I don't really blame anyone for sticking to the known formats or even screwing up the performance. I just don't want people to discourage devs from using different engines, and it doesn't have to be very complex, but to simply incorporate other basic gameplay elements from various genres. I think part of the problem were posts like I described, where the person who hasn't played yet is trashing the engine, but I haven't seen this type of attitude recently, although I haven't been reading many threads.

Agreed, and will say

but to simply incorporate other basic gameplay elements from various genres.

that anyone reading this, thinking of making a game, this can be done even in Renpy and RPGMaker, if you find Unity or Unreal too daunting or time-consuming. With some creative thinking, you can do a lot more than the standard "click choice" of Renpy or "walking simulator" of RPGM.

 

[Count Morado]

I've seen many threads raised from the dead once...
But it's rarer to see one raised from the undead!

Congratulations, Mr. Necromancer Farmer
The dead horse is ready for beating...

 

[Nuverotic]

Sorry my fault. I was looking for other Unreal Engine game devs and ran across this thread. Saw the guy shitting on Unreal and Unity because he prefers GODOT and thinks it's better and I had to say something...

1. Make a game, however you can, on whatever engine you can... Just make your game.
2. I'm making an Unreal game and my patreon brings in less than $200 a month. And considering I work on it 15-18 hours a day 7 days a week, the money doesn't justify making the game. So I can understand why some people would want to make a game in Ren'Py. It's easy. You can do it in your free time and make a little money. But if you're going to make a game in Unity or Unreal, have some experience, or have a game you just HAVE to make because no one else has, learn the programs you'll need to, "Photoshop, Blender, Audition, Unreal, etc etc", and make your game. But if you're making an Unreal game... You're going to lose money. So you better have a LOT of free time.
3. I'm not saying you can't make money... But for a while, it's going to be coming out of your pocket. So be ready for that.

 

[Count Morado]

Sorry my fault. I was looking for other Unreal Engine game devs and ran across this thread. Saw the guy shitting on Unreal and Unity because he prefers GODOT and thinks it's better and I had to say something...

1. Make a game, however you can, on whatever engine you can... Just make your game.
2. I'm making an Unreal game and my patreon brings in less than $200 a month. And considering I work on it 15-18 hours a day 7 days a week, the money doesn't justify making the game. So I can understand why some people would want to make a game in Ren'Py. It's easy. You can do it in your free time and make a little money. But if you're going to make a game in Unity or Unreal, have some experience, or have a game you just HAVE to make because no one else has, learn the programs you'll need to, "Photoshop, Blender, Audition, Unreal, etc etc", and make your game. But if you're making an Unreal game... You're going to lose money. So you better have a LOT of free time.
3. I'm not saying you can't make money... But for a while, it's going to be coming out of your pocket. So be ready for that.

No worries. I was just givin' you a poke.

Also, congrats on getting over $100 USD per month. You made it into the top half of all Patreon creators AND in such a short time (<4 months?). I notice your higher end subscription tiers in comparison to the average tiers for developers. I hope you continue to do well. It's going to continue to be an uphill battle - with more going out of your pocking than coming in for quite a while longer. Unless luck strikes.

But you should also know that there are many creators who do put in full time hours on Ren'Py for years and never make what you are already making. And there are a good number who lay out money on artists or 3D model assets, etc. Those that do have artistic ability also use Photoshop, Audition, etc, etc... for graphic and sound design. But yes, Ren'Py does have a lower point of entry for more possible people to start developing adult games.

One of my favorite games is done by a guy who logs over 2500 hours per year creating his game, while working a separate full-time job and taking care of family, etc. And he uses Ren'Py. And he's spent good money on his equipment and tools and the like.

So no matter which engine a developer chooses - if they are committing themselves to their project, no matter how much time they have available - ya'all need to stand together rather than pit each other against one another because of which engine. There are too many entitled children who play games from sites like F95 who will try to tear you each a part because "you're a milker" "you're a scammer" "you take too much time" "you focus on the wrong content" etc etc.

Best of luck

Yeah, I totally get that some devs are basically hobbyists doing stuff

Some is diminutive. Many of the devs whose games you find on this site are hobbyists/part-timers.

 

[orellion]

One of my favorite games is done by a guy who logs over 2500 hours per year creating his game, while working a separate full-time job and taking care of family, etc. And he uses Ren'Py. And he's spent good money on his equipment and tools and the like.

Alright I'm curious, what game?

 

[peterppp]

Sorry my fault. I was looking for other Unreal Engine game devs and ran across this thread. Saw the guy shitting on Unreal and Unity because he prefers GODOT and thinks it's better and I had to say something...

he was good at that (shitting), the guy you replied to, amazonessking. he is banned since almost 2 years because he was an ass and couldn't behave. not everyone can be as loved and well-behaved as me.

 

[_user]

The problem isn't performance... It's developers not optimizing their games. Unreal has a lot of features, and a lot of things you have to be aware of and optimize. Most developers are too lazy to go around optimizing every texture, material, light, landscape, tree, mesh, etc etc...

Bottom line is your typical Renpy VN can run on a toaster, and your cell phone obviously. If your game can only run on a gaming pc, you are ruling out from the get-go a huge portion of potential players.

 

[Winterfire]

Bottom line is your typical Renpy VN can run on a toaster, and your cell phone obviously. If your game can only run on a gaming pc, you are ruling out from the get-go a huge portion of potential players.

So can Unity games though

 

[_user]

So can Unity games though

True, I was mostly addressing UE which Nuverotic seems to be developing on.

Unity can be decent for gameplay, but the problem here is the moment you start doing gameplay you're competing against teams with dozens of developers. Why should I play your game for its shoddy gameplay when I can simply boot any AA+ game?

 

[Winterfire]

True, I was mostly addressing UE which Nuverotic seems to be developing on.

Unity can be decent for gameplay, but the problem here is the moment you start doing gameplay you're competing against teams with dozens of developers. Why should I play your game for its shoddy gameplay when I can simply boot any AA+ game?

Considering how bad the market is, it wouldn't be that impossible of a task.

Either way, Unity isn't an indie game engine, it's used by big companies as well (Bethesda, Nintendo, ...) and it doesn't require gameplay. You can make a pure visual novel in there, with the same features you'd find in a ren'py game (and more), while having an easier time as a dev and more platform support. That's at the cost of learning Unity, which is much harder to master than Ren'Py.

 

[_user]

You can make a pure visual novel in there, with the same features you'd find in a ren'py game (and more), while having an easier time as a dev and more platform support. That's at the cost of learning Unity, which is much harder to master than Ren'Py.

But then you're just reimplementing features that already exist in Renpy, and in all likelihood doing a worse job at it. You're also breaking any familiarity players have with Renpy where they don't need to learn the hotkeys, the UI... and of course breaking any mod support (seriously I can't get by without my custom textbox and shortcuts).

 

[Winterfire]

But then you're just reimplementing features that already exist in Renpy, and in all likelihood doing a worse job at it. You're also breaking any familiarity players have with Renpy where they don't need to learn the hotkeys, the UI... and of course breaking any mod support (seriously I can't get by without my custom textbox and shortcuts).

No, that's completely wrong. Naninovel fully replicates Ren'Py functionalities, and adds more. Same hotkeys (Which the user can reprogram), and of course you can replicate the UI (Default Ren'Py is quite simple, and default Naninovel is kind of similar).
That's with the added advantage of a WYSIWYG editor (Making UI in Ren'Py is hell), more platform support, and of course less chances for people to compress destroy your build and then report false crashes.

Naninovel is really a game changer for most devs as long as they also know Unity.

 

[_user]

Naninovel is really a game changer for most devs as long as they also know Unity.

I'm sure it is. But it's still not Renpy. I vaguely skimmed the documentation and it's already implementing it's own UI.

The point of Renpy is that you don't need more. Everything you'd want is already in there, you're talking about creating UI, but these are VNs, players don't give a fuck about your intricately designed UI. You talk about more features, but more features are never free, they add loading time, they add a maintenance cost, and they add complexity.