RPGM Wicked Rouge Refine [v0.15.0] [FIROKETA Games]

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

There can never be too much punishment!
I hope that the game keeps up the difficulty, maybe include an option to select F95 difficulty for those who think that 2 Oirans is not enough, or those who struggle at the beginning.

You can still abuse load/save functions, if you think the game is unfairly balanced.

Love that it actually challenges a bit, i actually wish for more punishing events, or buying medicine and stuff to prevent it.
Any step back from difficulty or removal of mechanics would make this game tend more towards a VN.
Yes, i know that this game is supposed to have more of a VN elements. (whatever that means)
But for me the "management" tag made me actually try this game in first line, followed by prostitution.
VN and Harem, i know tons of these.

I do end up save-scumming those encounters a bunch. But to me, save scumming isnt an indication of a game being too hard, it's an indication of bad mechanics somewhere.

I'm all about tough management, I loved playing "brothel megacorp" which is half the porn game of this and twice the management, rather my frustrations are at the randomness paired with big impact making a bad player experience.

For those of you who've also played the short brothel management "Club 53" - the parallel is the card game skulls. Yes, they make things hard, but they don't make them good or interesting. It's just a ~30-50% chance to straight up lose any encounter. Difficult things that incentivize scummy play to overcome instead of innovation or creativity aren't good IMO.

 

[D Dave]

I agree that save/load is not a fun mechanism, if you are forced to do it.

But where i disagree is that you need it in the current state.
And it is not too hard to manage to survive with only 1-2 Oirans active.
I might start from scratch, to test it one more time, but i do believe that even without all the upgrades you can survive.

I understand that it is boring, when you are forced to save every 3 mins in a real time strategy game.
But for me it looks like you are save/loading every time a single unit dies. And that is not how a RTS is supposed to be played.

My hope is, that in the worst case, the dev implements an easy mode, with stronger or cheaper upgrades, e.g. Establishment not degrading over time.
Or giving more customization options, e.g. chances of becoming sick (low, normal, high), chances of sick customer visiting, etc.
This way more people could enjoy the game, the way they want.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I agree that save/load is not a fun mechanism, if you are forced to do it.

But where i disagree is that you need it in the current state.
And it is not too hard to manage to survive with only 1-2 Oirans active.
I might start from scratch, to test it one more time, but i do believe that even without all the upgrades you can survive.

I understand that it is boring, when you are forced to save every 3 mins in a real time strategy game.
But for me it looks like you are save/loading every time a single unit dies. And that is not how a RTS is supposed to be played.

My hope is, that in the worst case, the dev implements an easy mode, with stronger or cheaper upgrades, e.g. Establishment not degrading over time.
Or giving more customization options, e.g. chances of becoming sick (low, normal, high), chances of sick customer visiting, etc.
This way more people could enjoy the game, the way they want.

Oh its definitely doable and not beyond completion. And im not saving for every little min/max, its simply the orians getting sick/exhausted which hits them with like 2 weeks of inactivity yet burning money.

IMHO the economics of the original WR were just about perfect. It was painful enough at the start to be a challenge, but you had enough tools to overcome it.

Note compared to the original, all the upgrade costs in refine are inexplicably inflated; buildings, improvements, slower general skills exp, etcetc. The only change to compensate is the reduction in sex training master ap, but this was never really a limiting factor anyway, it was the courtesans mood/energy, not yours.

 

[fidless]

Oh its definitely doable and not beyond completion. And im not saving for every little min/max, its simply the orians getting sick/exhausted which hits them with like 2 weeks of inactivity yet burning money.

IMHO the economics of the original WR were just about perfect. It was painful enough at the start to be a challenge, but you had enough tools to overcome it.

Note compared to the original, all the upgrade costs in refine are inexplicably inflated; buildings, improvements, slower general skills exp, etcetc. The only change to compensate is the reduction in sex training master ap, but this was never really a limiting factor anyway, it was the courtesans mood/energy, not yours.

Unlock talent to serve rough customers and avoid penalty.
Upgrade hot spring to serve sick customers and avoid penalty.

Avoid rough/sick customers until your oirans are ready.

I'm not sure what's the problem when there's already mechanics to counter getting sick.

Fudeyo starts with higher skill, train her and use her exclusively for rough customers until other oirans catch up.

It doesn't take much to open talent tree and press to learn talent.

And oirans are just half the income. You can get 3-4k daily just from the establishment itself.

 

[Perniciousducks]

Oh its definitely doable and not beyond completion. And im not saving for every little min/max, its simply the orians getting sick/exhausted which hits them with like 2 weeks of inactivity yet burning money.

IMHO the economics of the original WR were just about perfect. It was painful enough at the start to be a challenge, but you had enough tools to overcome it.

Note compared to the original, all the upgrade costs in refine are inexplicably inflated; buildings, improvements, slower general skills exp, etcetc. The only change to compensate is the reduction in sex training master ap, but this was never really a limiting factor anyway, it was the courtesans mood/energy, not yours.

I’ve never once had a girl get sick/exhausted. They work every night when they’re not training to be better oirans. I don’t use cheats. It’s very simple if I pay even the slightest bit of attention to what the customers are.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I’ve never once had a girl get sick/exhausted. They work every night when they’re not training to be better oirans. I don’t use cheats. It’s very simple if I pay even the slightest bit of attention to what the customers are.

If you're implying I don't check the customer's stats, that's not true. Early game, careful attention or not, you'll often get sprees of 75% rough sex lovers; so you either gamble or go back empty handed and eat the daily losses.

Unlock talent to serve rough customers and avoid penalty.
Upgrade hot spring to serve sick customers and avoid penalty.

Avoid rough/sick customers until your oirans are ready.

I'm not sure what's the problem when there's already mechanics to counter getting sick.

Fudeyo starts with higher skill, train her and use her exclusively for rough customers until other oirans catch up.

It doesn't take much to open talent tree and press to learn talent.

And oirans are just half the income. You can get 3-4k daily just from the establishment itself.

This is all true for the late game, but not at all for the early-mid. Have you played your game fresh from the start recently? I'm asking genuinely, not trying to be confrontational. You certainly don't get 3-4k daily passive income until you've gone through numerous 8K+ building upgrades.

The save I'm looking at in front of me is mid game, most orians are B or A general skills, buildings are a mix of low levels, and passive income fluctuates between 400-1.5k.

You say it doesnt take much to open talent tree, but that really isn't a fair characterization when it's ~45-50 points deep, depending on character.

Look if you're fine with the current economics, and I'm the only one who thinks it could be improved, I'll shutup and go my way. I just thought other players might be experiencing some of the same frustrations and the game could be improved with tweaking some of these numbers.

 

[RazielaMonarch]

If you're implying I don't check the customer's stats, that's not true. Early game, careful attention or not, you'll often get sprees of 75% rough sex lovers; so you either gamble or go back empty handed and eat the daily losses.



This is all true for the late game, but not at all for the early-mid. Have you played your game fresh from the start recently? I'm asking genuinely, not trying to be confrontational. You certainly don't get 3-4k daily passive income until you've gone through numerous 8K+ building upgrades.

The save I'm looking at in front of me is mid game, most orians are B or A general skills, buildings are a mix of low levels, and passive income fluctuates between 400-1.5k.

You say it doesnt take much to open talent tree, but that really isn't a fair characterization when it's ~45-50 points deep, depending on character.

Look if you're fine with the current economics, and I'm the only one who thinks it could be improved, I'll shutup and go my way. I just thought other players might be experiencing some of the same frustrations and the game could be improved with tweaking some of these numbers.

I think this comes really from experience playing games. I understand the frustrations of wanting to make game easier, BUT usually 'management' type of game tends to get so easy when u know how to be efficient since early game. I dont want to spoil how (easily with the use 'search').

Very early game give player 25k, then buying building & upgrade items efficiently, u can passively gain 500-1k daily while keeping cost low, just sleep few days, upgrade(means more passive income up to 4k daily).

Well to be fair, I kinda know this by finishing 2-3 times and read some comments to know the most efficient.

 

[fidless]

If you're implying I don't check the customer's stats, that's not true. Early game, careful attention or not, you'll often get sprees of 75% rough sex lovers; so you either gamble or go back empty handed and eat the daily losses.



This is all true for the late game, but not at all for the early-mid. Have you played your game fresh from the start recently? I'm asking genuinely, not trying to be confrontational. You certainly don't get 3-4k daily passive income until you've gone through numerous 8K+ building upgrades.

The save I'm looking at in front of me is mid game, most orians are B or A general skills, buildings are a mix of low levels, and passive income fluctuates between 400-1.5k.

You say it doesnt take much to open talent tree, but that really isn't a fair characterization when it's ~45-50 points deep, depending on character.

Look if you're fine with the current economics, and I'm the only one who thinks it could be improved, I'll shutup and go my way. I just thought other players might be experiencing some of the same frustrations and the game could be improved with tweaking some of these numbers.

Yes. I did. By day 30 you're making 2-3k just from stage, entertainment rooms and guests rooms.

It is just a matter of buying improvements and increasing your reputation to mid.

Game has already been dumbed down several times.

If it is still too hard, I may as well just put button to spawn unlimited coins.

I'm adding extra difficulty mode in the future because how easy WR has become.

 

[Bomarzo_]

Do we have cheat codes?

 

[betaalpha12]

Any intention to add group sex to the night services? like multiple male clients being serviced at once or even putting multiple girls on one guy?

 

[Paitryn]

I agree that save/load is not a fun mechanism, if you are forced to do it.

But where i disagree is that you need it in the current state.
And it is not too hard to manage to survive with only 1-2 Oirans active.
I might start from scratch, to test it one more time, but i do believe that even without all the upgrades you can survive.

I understand that it is boring, when you are forced to save every 3 mins in a real time strategy game.
But for me it looks like you are save/loading every time a single unit dies. And that is not how a RTS is supposed to be played.

My hope is, that in the worst case, the dev implements an easy mode, with stronger or cheaper upgrades, e.g. Establishment not degrading over time.
Or giving more customization options, e.g. chances of becoming sick (low, normal, high), chances of sick customer visiting, etc.
This way more people could enjoy the game, the way they want.

I restarted completely from scratch. you can survive with zero active Oirans. The key is to upgrade rooms that pay out like entertainment and the performance stage. I never went past level one for the stage and level 3 in the entertainment rooms before the end of the story currently. Increasing your office increases income. also maids and repairs matter a lot. You want to keep a high effeciency rating.

My question for the dev is: why aren't we playing with the new Oirans? Would have been a great reward when we finished Actions and Consequences since Kaede decided to become one
We have a reserve section, but are we really going to get any more girls to the point it would be an active choice? I stopped at the end of the story but still have more than enough space for new Oirans.

I love the storyline and the combat gameplay (it's not too hard, just always choose the most fights out of every path and upgrade as you can, and make sure you use consmables.) I just feel we are missing the real reason the game is here and thats the women department.

 

[Perniciousducks]

I don't want to speak for Fidless, but my understanding as to why we don't have Kaede and Mei as Oirans yet is just time management. He decided to focus on progressing the story more over setting up either of them yet, but we'll get another one available in the next or following update.

 

[GamerForFun]

Do we have cheat codes?

Look at #1120

 

[SilentRunning]

My hope is, that in the worst case, the dev implements an easy mode, with stronger or cheaper upgrades, e.g. Establishment not degrading over time.
Or giving more customization options, e.g. chances of becoming sick (low, normal, high), chances of sick customer visiting, etc.
This way more people could enjoy the game, the way they want.

I agree.

In all honesty, I wish the game was harder. There were a few more game mechanics in the first version.

I enjoy the management part of this game, and right now I think the game is a bit too easy. There is no reason to really worry about money. If you don't like your Oirans getting sick then you simply don't service any sick customers. Money is not tight at all, and you get way too much of it way too quickly. Getting 30,000 for nothing was way too much (I would like to see that radically reduced). And not having to make payments on a regular basis means you can literally just skip the night service and you will be fine.

In the older versions thread I once suggested a difficulty mode setting... easy/hard/difficult etc.

The game is currently way too easy, and even so right now you have people asking for cheat codes. I would like to see the opposite... codes to make the game harder.

Without some sort of mode selection there is simply no way to please everyone. I think Fidless is good at making an interesting game, but his vision will always be limited as many players don't like games and will always dislike those elements no matter how easy they are.

The simple solution is to add difficulty settings and then Fidless can add any sort of game mechanic without offending the player base that really only wants a VN.

Some of us would like to see more management elements that are a bit more challenging, but I doubt that is going to happen without some sort of mode settings.

In the older version I would always play from scratch every time a new version came out, but with Refine I am not sure I would do that as the management portion of the game is a bit too easy in my opinion.

 

[HunterSeeker]

Oh its definitely doable and not beyond completion. And im not saving for every little min/max, its simply the orians getting sick/exhausted which hits them with like 2 weeks of inactivity yet burning money.

IMHO the economics of the original WR were just about perfect. It was painful enough at the start to be a challenge, but you had enough tools to overcome it.

Note compared to the original, all the upgrade costs in refine are inexplicably inflated; buildings, improvements, slower general skills exp, etcetc. The only change to compensate is the reduction in sex training master ap, but this was never really a limiting factor anyway, it was the courtesans mood/energy, not yours.

Hard agree with you. The RNG of oirans getting sick and losing them for many days is a frustrating mechanic. The old game didn't have this and it made it more fun. The way you prevent them from getting sick involves a crap ton of grind too (for whatever reason, they decided to make the talent for this all the way at the bottom or you have to grind for the upgraded bath).

 

[Perniciousducks]

I agree.

In all honesty, I wish the game was harder. There were a few more game mechanics in the first version.

I enjoy the management part of this game, and right now I think the game is a bit too easy. There is no reason to really worry about money. If you don't like your Oirans getting sick then you simply don't service any sick customers. Money is not tight at all, and you get way too much of it way too quickly. Getting 30,000 for nothing was way too much (I would like to see that radically reduced). And not having to make payments on a regular basis means you can literally just skip the night service and you will be fine.

In the older versions thread I once suggested a difficulty mode setting... easy/hard/difficult etc.

The game is currently way too easy, and even so right now you have people asking for cheat codes. I would like to see the opposite... codes to make the game harder.

Without some sort of mode selection there is simply no way to please everyone. I think Fidless is good at making an interesting game, but his vision will always be limited as many players don't like games and will always dislike those elements no matter how easy they are.

The simple solution is to add difficulty settings and then Fidless can add any sort of game mechanic without offending the player base that really only wants a VN.

Some of us would like to see more management elements that are a bit more challenging, but I doubt that is going to happen without some sort of mode settings.

In the older version I would always play from scratch every time a new version came out, but with Refine I am not sure I would do that as the management portion of the game is a bit too easy in my opinion.

Yeah, I find the game hilariously easy. I never once had a girl get sick or hurt, I never went negative in money. I just payed a half bit of attention to who they were serving and upgraded things. I leveled all the girls to s tier, so they’ve had hundreds of partners each with no issues. Now I have millions in cash.

I’m just baffled that people have trouble with this.

 

[SilentRunning]

Hard agree with you. The RNG of oirans getting sick and losing them for many days is a frustrating mechanic. The old game didn't have this and it made it more fun. The way you prevent them from getting sick involves a crap ton of grind too (for whatever reason, they decided to make the talent for this all the way at the bottom or you have to grind for the upgraded bath).

Just don't service sick clients, or rough sex clients. Problem solved. They will probably never get sick.

Train your Oirans in rough sex and then you can service those rough sex clients.

There is a small chance they will get sick with a rough client even if well trained in rough sex, but very rare.

I don't see how not servicing clients that will make your girls sick is "a crap ton of grind."

In the old version women never got sick unless you worked them to the bone. It was a pointless mechanic. You had to literally want them to get sick. It isn't quite that pointless here, but even now your girls will only get sick if you decide to roll the dice on sick clients or rough sex clients. Pretty easy to avoid.

 

[linus.quotes]

Do we have cheat codes?

Look at #1120

#1120

 

[sageproduct]

You sick fucks deserve being penalized for letting perverted unhygienic men defile your women

 

[Toknight]

How to defeat the boss when kidnapping the lady. The boss can call assassin, then I will lose. Try like an hour, completely waste of time.