Assuming you like a game very much and are willing to back it up. Will the fact that it is Subscribestar only affect your decision to back it?
Will you back Subscribestar only titles?
- Thread starter Doorknob22
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- Aug 25, 2017
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- Jun 10, 2017
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Totally.
SubscribeStar still have too many points left in the shadow ; why an US based company owned by a Russia located person, who don't even seem to effectively be the owner, by example. They are a place that will deal with our money, and is supposed to transfer it to a person we want to give it. The least they can do is being fully transparent, not two third shady.
Add to this their withdraw conditions that aren't at all favorable to the author, and there's no real question here ; they are far to be trustworthy enough.
This being said, your poll is biased. You present it as a SubscribeStar Vs Patreon situation, while it's more a SubscribeStar Vs all other form of payment. They aren't the sole options available. You can have a tip jar, on your own or by using one of the many services for that, or your game can be on itch.io, among other solutions.
I didn't conduct a thorough research, I admit. It's just that when I look at the first post of game threads in f95zone, the two most common "patron platforms" I see are Patreon and Subscribestar with the rest seen very rarely. Additionally, Subscribestar seems to have a very lenient policy towards the content I include in my game and I intend to include somewhat extreme content so in that regard it is a great solution for me.
- Aug 22, 2018
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Nope.
I only use Paypal online and won't be changing that to use any other payment methods. Before I used them we had an issue with one of our credit cards and spent 6 months being dicked around by the fraud department before we finally got our money back.
Since using Paypal, any issues have been solved within 7 days at the most extreme, 24 hours at the lesser.
Subscribestar can't use Paypal so i'll never back anyone on Subscribestar.
I only use Paypal online and won't be changing that to use any other payment methods. Before I used them we had an issue with one of our credit cards and spent 6 months being dicked around by the fraud department before we finally got our money back.
Since using Paypal, any issues have been solved within 7 days at the most extreme, 24 hours at the lesser.
Subscribestar can't use Paypal so i'll never back anyone on Subscribestar.
- Aug 22, 2018
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It was Paypal that forced Patreon to ban incest etc... Patreon had nothing to do with most of the restrictions they now have. Between Paypal and Mastercard they have pushed Patreon into a corner and got them to ban pretty much everything they didn't like.
People blame Patreon for Paypals restrictions. Without Paypal and the major credit cards, Patreon would lose a lot of money it's also why Subscribestar won't ever make as much.
Subscribestar refused Paypals restrictions and Paypal blacklisted them.
If I like the game enough, I'll support it on SubscribeStar. I won't support any Patreon because I hate Patreon's Orwellian policies.
- Jun 28, 2017
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US has the best freedom of speech laws in the western world so any "fuck internet censorship" entrepreneur will have the company be based there regardless of their home country.
People who still use paypal in 2021 obviously don't care about subscribestar or related services.
- Jun 10, 2017
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- Aug 25, 2017
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I seriously doubt that, at least when it comes to sexual content.
Might depend on your definition of "the western world" though.
If it means I have to pass around my credit card information on the internet then no, I don't care for whatever service it is.
- Jun 28, 2017
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US has constitution preventing lawmakers passing arbitrary thats gross/nazi/offends muslims so its not allowed laws unlike in EU which enables companies to operate there fully without courts ever being able to tell them to shut down. Porn is pretty much illegal in communist countries.
Most companies avoid storing your cc info because of how harsh laws are about leaking that stuff, so ss also uses 3rd party services that specialize for that.
- Aug 25, 2017
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I honestly can't tell if you're serious or hardcore memeing...
I don't have disposable income that I can put towards a recurring subscription, but if you make something I like and you've got a SubscribeStar account I might give you a $5 donation or something. Part of what I personally like about SubscribeStar is that it gives you the option to donate if you can't afford to subscribe.
- Jun 10, 2017
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And in the same time, because they aren't political speeches, and so
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, books like Lolita where firstly published in Europe, while being banned in the USA. Europe where you can show a full frontal naked body on movies, or on TV, without restriction. Europe where you can freely say, or write, "I'll fuck your ass, bitch", as many time as you want, in any creation you want.In term of censorship, US Laws are by far way more restrictive than European ones. Especially when it come to adult content. But seeing how you misunderstand what "freedom of speech" mean, both in regard of the US constitution and in regard of US Laws, it's not surprising to see that you also totally ignore what Laws are in Europe.
Few European countries have effective censorship laws, except when it come to hate speeches. Yet most of them aren't effective censorship laws, just the extend of law regarding this or that ; like, by example, Spanish law regarding bestiality, or more globally laws against p*d*shit. What imply that they are the exact opposite of the USA, who protect hate speeches, but define and forbid obscenities.
As for Internet, globally the only law that effectively regulate it in European countries, is the obligation, for a site owner, to prevent access to pornography to minors. This while the USA past the last 20 years adding laws on top of laws, many being judged unconstitutional, like the Child Online Protection Act by example. This make them the Western country with the most regulation rules over Internet ; rules that, in the US, can be enforced by Internet provider companies, while the few that exist in Europe can only be enforced by Justice.
If one want to host content that can be seen as illegal, like what SubscribeStar expect to host, it's either in Iceland or Estonia (and so in Europe) that he should go. They are, by far, the more permissive countries regarding Internet.
But the most interesting thing here is that, obviously, having your company based in your country, and your site hosted in your country, mean that you lost the impunity effect that can offer Internet ; if they decide to go against your site, they'll be able to also go against you. What can't happen if you live in another country, especially when it's a country where Justice will not really try to comply to an external jurisdiction.
It happen that it's Russia Vs USA, but it could be another couple ; what matter isn't where the supposed owner live, but the fact that he live in a country where he's safe from any decision that Justice can take regarding his company and/or site. This way, he can do whatever he want, both regarding the content he decide to host, but also the way he decide to treat your money.
And how many "communist countries" do you think there is in the western world exactly ? Anyway, none of the
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that still exist are located in Europe. Apparently, your understanding regarding communism isn't better than your understanding regarding freedom of speech.Yeah, it's a real pity. All those laws forcing poor companies to protect the data that aren't theirs and that they shouldn't store at all.
- Jun 28, 2017
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I was mostly thinking of
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. You want to host a website that allows people post things on it? Do it in usa according to Voat ceo. Protonmail might be located in swiss land but they're also a honeypot so.Estonia doesn't allow distribution of loli porn so who'd host anything there. I'm not sure about Spain but maybe other factors play a role in whether you want to setup a website there. And as you said most nations in EU if people are allowed to write their alt right political opinions the site would get taken down.
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doesn't say lolita was ever banned in usa?Distributing porn isn't allowed in russia so you prob dont want to setup a company there.
It's indeed good that websites generally don't store or leak ones cc info.
- Jun 10, 2017
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[Forewords regarding censoring in my post (and the previous one): It's not a question of morality, but a question of respect for the forum and its members. No need to raise too much the attention of the sick bastards searching for the censored words.]
Plus, but I can be wrong, I feel sarcasm in this article, especially in its conclusion sentence.
I'm asking, because Estonia is, in Europe, one, if not the, country with the most problems of ch*ld pornoshit and ch*ld sexual abuse. And since I failed to effectively find in their laws something regarding pornography in fiction (therefore loli porn that wouldn't be made with real persons), perhaps that you'd the chance to found it ; in which case I'm interested in the link.
According to their "
And while their "
"1) inducement of a child to engage in sexual activity;
2) exploitative use of children in prostitution;
3) exploitative use of children for pornographic purposes."
What seem to imply that erotic display of children is legal, whatever how far it goes on the erotic side. And that, legally speaking (according to my limited knowledge and understanding of Estonian Law), you can make a movie where you'll have sex with a child, as long as it's few minutes in an 1 hour long documentary regarding your lovely relation with children.
Human relation being the foreground, and the sexual abuse just a small part of the background, according to the only definition of pornography I found in their laws, it's not pornography. It's not prostitution either and therefore, as long as the child wasn't explicitly induced, it's not prohibited ; at least in the terms of their "Child Protection Act" but, as I said, I can have missed a law that could state the opposite.
Plus, note that it's "exploitative use" that is prohibited. What seem to imply that a child can perfectly prostitute himself, as long as he wasn't induced to it and is the one who benefit from it. Implication that correspond to the
So, yeah, really, if you've a link saying that distribution of loli porn is illegal in Estonia, I'm interested by it.
Firstly, I never talked about "alt right political opinions", but about effective hate speech. Take a closer look at alt right political parties in Europe. Trump was an altar boy compared to some of them, and they can speak without problem, saying what they want either on Internet or any media that accept to receive them. They can even be elected, and they are.
Secondly, I never said that a site where such speeches would be put would be taken down. It's justice that decide, and generally the decision is to remove the content, not close the site.
This being the reason why I explicitly said that it's not really effective censorship, but more an extension of existing laws. You've the right to say whatever you want, and if someone decide to sue you for this, well, just face the consequences. But it's rarely the government, or Justice itself, that will sue you.
It's what make the difference between censorship (that is a state decision) and simple "illegality". And it also imply that there's more censorship in the USA that in Europe, since in USA it's the authorities that will sue you if you fall under the laws on obscenity, while in Europe it's (almost always) and individual, or an association/organization, that will start the procedure.
Europe don't care this much about obscenities, as long as it don't reach children and, obviously, don't implicate them. There's laws against indecent exposure, but almost no laws that address obscenity.
Edit: Fixed the messed quotations.
A five years old article that, once again, focus solely on political speech, and not once address the problem caused by US laws on obscenity. So, you're still totally out of subject here.
Plus, but I can be wrong, I feel sarcasm in this article, especially in its conclusion sentence.
Voat, that closed a little more than one month ago. Don't you have a better authority argument to use, than someone who owned a website that, during the last three years, was seriously lacking of fund ?
Are you really sure about that ?
I'm asking, because Estonia is, in Europe, one, if not the, country with the most problems of ch*ld pornoshit and ch*ld sexual abuse. And since I failed to effectively find in their laws something regarding pornography in fiction (therefore loli porn that wouldn't be made with real persons), perhaps that you'd the chance to found it ; in which case I'm interested in the link.
According to their "
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", they define pornography as "a manner of representation in which sexual acts are brought to the foreground in a vulgar and intrusive manner and other human relations are disregarded or relegated to the background" ; what is one of the most explicit legal definition I ever seen. What also imply that, lets say a game like Dating My Daughter, that clearly put human relations at foreground, isn't pornographic. It's possible that I have missed it, but I found no mention of p*d*shit or anything related, in this law.And while their "
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" clearly state that "a child is a human being below the age of eighteen years", and "shall be protected from all forms of sexual exploitation", are only prohibited :"1) inducement of a child to engage in sexual activity;
2) exploitative use of children in prostitution;
3) exploitative use of children for pornographic purposes."
What seem to imply that erotic display of children is legal, whatever how far it goes on the erotic side. And that, legally speaking (according to my limited knowledge and understanding of Estonian Law), you can make a movie where you'll have sex with a child, as long as it's few minutes in an 1 hour long documentary regarding your lovely relation with children.
Human relation being the foreground, and the sexual abuse just a small part of the background, according to the only definition of pornography I found in their laws, it's not pornography. It's not prostitution either and therefore, as long as the child wasn't explicitly induced, it's not prohibited ; at least in the terms of their "Child Protection Act" but, as I said, I can have missed a law that could state the opposite.
Plus, note that it's "exploitative use" that is prohibited. What seem to imply that a child can perfectly prostitute himself, as long as he wasn't induced to it and is the one who benefit from it. Implication that correspond to the
You must be registered to see the links
(PDF) from ECPAT ("End ch*ld prostitution, ch*ld pornography and trafficking of children for sexual purposes" organization) deploring that child prostitution is legal in Estonia for anyone above 14 yo, as well as manufacturing and providing of ch*ld pornoshit.So, yeah, really, if you've a link saying that distribution of loli porn is illegal in Estonia, I'm interested by it.
Please, do not distort my words like you apparently distort everything else.
Firstly, I never talked about "alt right political opinions", but about effective hate speech. Take a closer look at alt right political parties in Europe. Trump was an altar boy compared to some of them, and they can speak without problem, saying what they want either on Internet or any media that accept to receive them. They can even be elected, and they are.
Secondly, I never said that a site where such speeches would be put would be taken down. It's justice that decide, and generally the decision is to remove the content, not close the site.
This being the reason why I explicitly said that it's not really effective censorship, but more an extension of existing laws. You've the right to say whatever you want, and if someone decide to sue you for this, well, just face the consequences. But it's rarely the government, or Justice itself, that will sue you.
It's what make the difference between censorship (that is a state decision) and simple "illegality". And it also imply that there's more censorship in the USA that in Europe, since in USA it's the authorities that will sue you if you fall under the laws on obscenity, while in Europe it's (almost always) and individual, or an association/organization, that will start the procedure.
Europe don't care this much about obscenities, as long as it don't reach children and, obviously, don't implicate them. There's laws against indecent exposure, but almost no laws that address obscenity.
Ah, the USA and their marvels. Federal government make laws, State governments make laws, even city councils make laws... Search deeper, it wasn't a federal ban.[/QUOTE]
Edit: Fixed the messed quotations.
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- Jun 28, 2017
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Like voat all these platforms still operate in USA instead of EU, some states has laws that make internet business problematic but most seem to prefer California. Estonia thing is just wikipedia referencing some estonian article about guy being sued over cartoons, which implies of the impossibility of running a business there. Theres constant stream of news of someone being reprimanded for speech in EU countries, maybe the same laws enabling that make CAL a good option for business.
In USA you can reliably set up a business and predict a future of it operating indefinitely with outside investments, in EU you can predict issues.
Trump seems like altar boy because of Americas tick tock binary political system where most people have zero representation. Theres no party to represent the working class, in EU the most extreme parties are obviously different from mainstream american politics.
- Jun 10, 2017
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And there's (way more) constant stream of news of someone being shoot to death in USA. What don't prevent tourists to visit the country, right ?
But, more important, you're once again talking about political speech, while the subject is pornographic content. You're trying to defend your position while talking about something totally different, using as argument laws and situations that don't apply to the subject.
It's like saying that there's no speed limit on road, because planes can go as fast as they want. And the worse is that you clearly seem to not understand why it's a problem.
- Jun 28, 2017
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Its both.
You cant make business about irl bestiality, cp in cali but you can setup a site with drawings. The issue then what companies work with you. Like how do you monetize a site like 4chan with its obscene content that advertisers dont like.
Patreon after all doesn't ban lolis because of the US/cali law, they do it because of paypal/cc companies who censor for their own reasons and dont answer to anyone.