VN Ren'Py WVM [S2 Ch. 1 Ep. 13 B5] [Braindrop]

[Spfjolietjake]

That was a quick three pages of a lively & civilized debate. Fairly hopeful quite a lot of those questions will be addressed in the upcoming update. Most likely followed by more questions related to some of those answers.

Amen. Wish more threads had intelligent thought provoking posters as this and mnf. But I'm content with them. good vn's always feel like great books to me, I always want to discuss them

 

[WheresLucifer]

Again there is so much we don't know, and the things we think we know might not be as good as they seem. There could have been a phone call made it may just have not been to the MC. Also how do we know that Belle is not the mastermind behind the whole thing? How do we know that Damien was not working undercover for the unknown detective working the case against Charles. The problem is we just don't know the facts but we are all so quick to judge. I see a redemption path, but I also see ways that there is no path to redemption. We need more facts we have what people saw just not what motivations are behind those actions.

You have a good point that possible Damien may be working undercover.

Have a great day and be safe...

 

[Badjourasmix]

Yeah, to me there’s a point where the MC needs to be able to walk away from some relationships. But I also realize that the MC’s superpower is his niceness. I really don’t think that it makes sense to trust someone for a third time no matter how much “he’s doing it for his family” justification there is to D’s behavior.

I don't know maybe I'm too forgiving, but if the story about the mother is true, I would like to at least have the option to forgive him. But I get why people wouldn't want to forgive him, even if he was doing things to protect his family he ended up helping Ryker put the MC's family and friends in danger.

 

[cakeny]

I get that but again who's life is more important your own family or someone you have know for a week?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[MrFriendly]

A male version of Mother Teresa as MC doesn't really have to be, otherwise I'll start throwing up rainbows at some point.

Eh, Mother Teresa has a lot to answer for but that's neither here nor there...

I hope that the MC doesn't continue to be the sweetest, nicest, most "awesomest" person ever... I like that he is good to the women in his life, I like that he tries to be a good guy but I want more personality. I hope that BD gives the player a choice when it comes to Damien. I don't want to see the raging debate that will happen when or if the MC is "all good" with Damien.

 

[WheresLucifer]

View attachment 877000

I love Top Gears show. Now they are on the Amazon's Grand Tour.

Have a great day and be safe...

 

[thorin0815]

Again there is so much we don't know, and the things we think we know might not be as good as they seem. There could have been a phone call made it may just have not been to the MC. Also how do we know that Belle is not the mastermind behind the whole thing? How do we know that Damien was not working undercover for the unknown detective working the case against Charles. The problem is we just don't know the facts but we are all so quick to judge. I see a redemption path, but I also see ways that there is no path to redemption. We need more facts we have what people saw just not what motivations are behind those actions.

In the end it doesn't matter why he did it, what matters is what he did.

 

[cakeny]

I think that at least we can all agree that Ryker needs to die soon. He tried to hit harper with a bat and he punched wendy.

Death is too good for Ryker.

 

[thorin0815]

I hope that the MC doesn't continue to be the sweetest, nicest, most "awesomest" person ever... I like that he is good to the women in his life, I like that he tries to be a good guy but I want more personality. I hope that BD gives the player a choice when it comes to Damien. I don't want to see the raging debate that will happen when or if the MC is "all good" with Damien.

That's exactly how I see it, a person without any rough edges/flaws is simply boring in the long run. Of course, he should never change his behavior towards the ladies.

 

[Badjourasmix]

When I talk about forgiving Damien, I'm not saying that the mc should just brush off all the things Damien did and be friendly with him. He obviously has to work for that. I think he should at least have the chance to prove to the mc that he is worthy of his forgiveness. I don't think that is too unreasonable.

 

[The Krypt Angel]

I get that but again who's life is more important your own family or someone you have know for a week?

My perception on this are colored by my own personal views. You know enough about me to know I can relate to damien's situation on some level. I just can't condone it because I myself would not have made the choice he did. My mother would rather I let her go than indebt myself to a shitstain like Ryker even if doing so would prolong or even save her life

 

[ZTex]

When I talk about forgiving Damien, I'm not saying that the mc should just brush off all the things Damien did and be friendly with him. He obviously has to work for that. I think he should at least have the chance to prove to the mc that he is worthy of his forgiveness. I don't think that is too unreasonable.

I don't think anyone rational is saying that they become buddy buddy again overnight when we say he can be redeemed.
I think it would take a year or more of "University" for them to be on even helping with studies again but that's still a years worth of interaction and growth that can happen. I'm using this timeline if only because BD has said originally he had plans for the game to run for some really long period of time so the end goal can be redemption but the journey is something the players should have the ability to opt into or out of.

 

[KinkierThanThou]

I am a bit in the middle about Damien. Right now with the information we have been given so far, I'm leaning towards "Three strikes, you are out". But I also have to take into account that BD likes to tease us by only giving us tidbits of information at a time. He obviously has more planned for Damien, but it's still up in the air if it's going to be a redeption arc (hopefully optional) or a further descent into outright villainy.

In my opinion, Damien's character arc is more complex and thus more interesting than that of the rather one dimensional Ryker. To use an MCU analogy: Ryker does things strictly for self-gain, for profit and out of a near pathological dislike for the MC, so he's kinda like Yellow Jacket.

Damien does bad things but seemingly with more altruistic motivations: to protect his family. In that way, he is more similar to MC than to Ryker. MC would also do anything to protect his family (and not all of them are nice, as Ryker can attest to). Similar motivations, different methods to achieve their goals. Kinda makes Damien the Killmonger to MC's Black Panther.

In short, while he is in the danger zone, he hasn't crossed the Moral Event Horizon just yet IMO, and I'm interested to see where it all leads.

 

[Master of Puppets]

I maybe alone but since she vouched for her even when they wasn't getting along at all speaks alot to character of both in my special mind.

Definitely not alone, it's a lot easier to overlook issues with friends than with people you don't get along with, 'I don't like them but they're a good person' is much higher praise than 'Oh yeah, they're a good friend, you can trust them'.

 

[Skode]

I don't think anyone rational is saying that they become buddy buddy again overnight when we say he can be redeemed.
I think it would take a year or more of "University" for them to be on even helping with studies again but that's still a years worth of interaction and growth that can happen. I'm using this timeline if only because BD has said originally he had plans for the game to run for some really long period of time so the end goal can be redemption but the journey is something the players should have the ability to opt into or out of.

Yeah, people balk when i mention a redemption arc for him but it doesnt have to mean hes straight back in the clique ever he even ever gets in there at all... merely he turns on the shit heads hes hanging with rather unenthusiastically and becomes his own man again as you cant really have him around all the time with the MC again regardless if the plan is you get to fuck Jasmine, she cares too much about him for it to not be complicated is she joins harem but her on/off bf is hanging around all the time (its also needless as hes already got an ensemble of basketball playing buddies to call on so the role is well covered by others and better ones at that).

 

[thorin0815]

In short, while he is in the danger zone, he hasn't crossed the Moral Event Horizon just yet IMO, and I'm interested to see where it all leads.

If you mean Damien, he already left the "Moral Event Horizon" after spying on the MC.

Damien willingly accepts that others may be injured, kidnapped, or even killed for the sake of his mother (if Harper had been hit by the baseball bat, this could have happened). That makes him a good son (as long as the mother does not learn about the circumstances of her rescue), but undoubtedly an immoral person with whom I personally would no longer want to have anything to do with. With such a breach of trust I act like a binary being and no time in the world and future actions can change this attitude.

 

[KinkierThanThou]

If you mean Damien, he already left the "Moral Event Horizon" after spying on the MC.

Damien willingly accepts that others may be injured, kidnapped, or even killed for the sake of his mother (if Harper had been hit by the baseball bat, this could have happened). That makes him a good son (as long as the mother does not learn about the circumstances of her rescue), but undoubtedly an immoral person with whom I personally would no longer want to have anything to do with. With such a breach of trust I act like a binary being and no time in the world and future actions can change this attitude.

Like I said, it's strictly my opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours. This thread has proven to be big enough for both sides of the discussion.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

I am a bit in the middle about Damien. Right now with the information we have been given so far, I'm leaning towards "Three strikes, you are out". But I also have to take into account that BD likes to tease us by only giving us tidbits of information at a time. He obviously has more planned for Damien, but it's still up in the air if it's going to be a redeption arc (hopefully optional) or a further descent into outright villainy.

In my opinion, Damien's character arc is more complex and thus more interesting than that of the rather one dimensional Ryker. To use an MCU analogy: Ryker does things strictly for self-gain, for profit and out of a near pathological dislike for the MC, so he's kinda like Yellow Jacket.

Damien does bad things but seemingly with more altruistic motivations: to protect his family. In that way, he is more similar to MC than to Ryker. MC would also do anything to protect his family (and not all of them are nice, as Ryker can attest to). Similar motivations, different methods to achieve their goals. Kinda makes Damien the Killmonger to MC's Black Panther.

In short, while he is in the danger zone, he hasn't crossed the Moral Event Horizon just yet IMO, and I'm interested to see where it all leads.

Damnit now I'm sitting here with this stuck in my head.

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Not too shabby a concert, not my usual fair but still don't want it to be in my head all day

 

[KinkierThanThou]

Damnit now I'm sitting here with this stuck in my head.

You must be registered to see the links

Not too shabby a concert, not my usual fair but still don't want it to be in my head all day

You're welcome.

 

[armion82]

I think I am the only one here willing to give him a second chance. I wrote a bunch of posts about it over the past few weeks. It did not go over well with everyone else.

You are not the only one.