VN Ren'Py WVM [S2 Ch. 1 Ep. 13 B5] [Braindrop]

[Uncle Loco]

Nice to see some newer people showing up here. I like the idea behind the basketball stuff. I am interested in how BD will handle actual games, and then how far he will take the game. Will he take it to going pro and stop or keep going with a new setting after signing with a team? Not the main focus for me, but something that is interesting for sure.

 

[✝Fenrir✝]

I maybe a minority but I don't necessarily play for the realism of college basketball...

I'm with you... I don't even like basketball, I'm just curious to know what the games will be like, nothing more

 

[Spfjolietjake]

Nice to see some newer people showing up here. I like the idea behind the basketball stuff. I am interested in how BD will handle actual games, and then how far he will take the game. Will he take it to going pro and stop or keep going with a new setting after signing with a team? Not the main focus for me, but something that is interesting for sure.

I couldn't help being a smart ass, but i meant it playfully. That said i avoided this VN for a bit like I stated it earlier cause I thought it would be sports heavy but I must admit that I love the balance and it turns out to be a engaging backdrop

 

[zoyle]

I said this a while back when this same discussion came up but i'll reiterate for the sake of saying my piece. For me the whole Daddy thing is less of a "kinks than it is is purely rooted in my experience in the Dom/Sub world. When I first began exploring the lifestyle 20 years ago and my girlfriend at the time agreed to become my sub we sort of struggled with she should call me during play time. "Master" didn't sit right with her and "Sir" didn't really do it for me either so we approached a friend who was also into the scene and they suggested trying Daddy and it just clicked. We were together for a little over 5 years and as a result the Daddy aspect just became permanently ingrained in my methods as a Dom and as such the few Sub's I've taken since the first have all called me that (including the ones in my head )

I can totally understand how it might creep out someone who is already a Dad tho. The incest fetish might tickle my pickle but I use the myriad of options available here on The Zone to scratch that itch when i need to and it never enters into my real life. Not that it would ever be a problem anyway since the odds of me ever having kids is close to zero.

Lastly while I can't deny some women do go for the Daddy thing due to some level of mental immaturity or just having a screw loose in my experience with a rare exception or 2 that's never been the case. Ash the first girl to start the Daddy thing with me was one of the smartest most mature and level headed girls I've ever known especially considering she was only in her early 20's at the time.

Admittedly I am still guilty of playing up both stereotypes when I role play the twins in my posts but they have reasons for being the way they are in my Cult canon and more importantly it's fiction.

Anyway this turned out to be way longer than I intended it to be it's just that as someone who wears the Daddy thing on his sleeve as I tend to do on the thread i felt I should chime in

It is always interesting on this forum to see the differences in perspective between folks who have RL experience with stuff vs those who are just reacting to what they see in a game. I think about this a lot when I see posts in the Being a DIK thread and never post there, because I have been in a poly 3 person relationship that started in college for almost 15 years now, but then I never want to post and explain to people how they have misconceptions because my situation's unique enough I could rapidly dox myself by doing it, so instead I just lurk and never, ever, ever post.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

It is always interesting on this forum to see the differences in perspective between folks who have RL experience with stuff vs those who are just reacting to what they see in a game. I think about this a lot when I see posts in the Being a DIK thread and never post there, because I have been in a poly 3 person relationship that started in college for almost 15 years now, but then I never want to post and explain to people how they have misconceptions because my situation's unique enough I could rapidly dox myself by doing it, so instead I just lurk and never, ever, ever post.

Very few experiences are the same for anybody. Even in a "traditional" (i.e. two people) the differences just on a block full of people would be staggering.

Somethings seem universally true but when it comes to love, lust and relationships all bets are off. Us humans are fucking strange and complex creatures or so dumb and terribly simple.

But this VN has enough that people can see them selves in to be this popular imo

 

[zoyle]

Very few experiences are the same for anybody. Even in a "traditional" (i.e. two people) the differences just on a block full of people would be staggering.

Somethings seem universally true but when it comes to love, lust and relationships all bets are off. Us humans are fucking strange and complex creatures or so dumb and terribly simple.

But this VN has enough that people can see them selves in to be this popular imo

IMO where a lot of VNs go wrong is just time scale. Even character behavior that seems a little too convenient, like, say, Jamie in this VN proactively getting into you fucking as many other women as possible, are things that are quite plausible. However, events and character relationships always advance at rates that are incredibly, unrealistically fast and too many events are jammed into the same days or the same events. Jamie going from sexually innocent to very high libido to getting off on you fucking other women is realistic - one of the girls in my relationship did almost exactly that - but it took almost a year to get from point A to point C (and we never 'did anything' with it because the other girl was much more possessive and preferred to keep things inside our trio), not like, a week and a half or whatever it takes for it to happen in WVM. Just breaking up the events with little go home and sleep with the girls interstitials instead of having the MC fuck like 5 women a day would make the whole story a lot more plausible in a lot of cases. I get that people are trying to consolidate programming time and renders by creating a single event, like a party, and then letting the MC have scenes with whichever girl(s) they're involved with at those events, but they could probably create 2-3 brief 'end of day' sequences and re-use them to create a more plausible passage of time.

BaDIK Chapter 5 is a good example of this scenario, where a character can pretty easily have 6? encounters in one night, and while some of them would be quite fast and are fine (like lily), you can quite easily have the scene with Josy or Maya, then Sage, then Jill all in that same night, and there's literally no way a real person wouldn't stink of sex by the 2nd of those scenes, much less the 3rd.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

IMO where a lot of VNs go wrong is just time scale. Even character behavior that seems a little too convenient, like, say, Jamie in this VN proactively getting into you fucking as many other women as possible, are things that are quite plausible. However, events and character relationships always advance at rates that are incredibly, unrealistically fast and too many events are jammed into the same days or the same events. Jamie going from sexually innocent to very high libido to getting off on you fucking other women is realistic - one of the girls in my relationship did almost exactly that - but it took almost a year to get from point A to point C (and we never 'did anything' with it because the other girl was much more possessive and preferred to keep things inside our trio), not like, a week and a half or whatever it takes for it to happen in WVM. Just breaking up the events with little go home and sleep with the girls interstitials instead of having the MC fuck like 5 women a day would make the whole story a lot more plausible in a lot of cases. I get that people are trying to consolidate programming time and renders by creating a single event, like a party, and then letting the MC have scenes with whichever girl(s) they're involved with at those events, but they could probably create 2-3 brief 'end of day' sequences and re-use them to create a more plausible passage of time.

BaDIK Chapter 5 is a good example of this scenario, where a character can pretty easily have 6? encounters in one night, and while some of them would be quite fast and are fine (like lily), you can quite easily have the scene with Josy or Maya, then Sage, then Jill all in that same night, and there's literally no way a real person wouldn't stink of sex by the 2nd of those scenes, much less the 3rd.

I see where you are coming from and if this was a Stephen King length hard back I would be disappointed in the speed, but this is like the TV mini series King that is condensed. I'm here for escape and fantasy but mainly since My New Family and This VN im also here for "feels".

Realism doesn't matter to me much except for character and emotion. I swear I'd still enjoy this VN if an alien landed right on campus and hit on our mc, but thats me. I respect that others hunger for more believable escapes.

This Vn seriously does something right for me as is.

 

[zoyle]

I see where you are coming from and if this was a Stephen King length hard back I would be disappointed in the speed, but this is like the TV mini series King that is condensed. I'm here for escape and fantasy but mainly since My New Family and This VN im also here for "feels".

Realism doesn't matter to me much except for character and emotion. I swear I'd still enjoy this VN if an alien landed right on campus and hit on our mc, but thats me. I respect that others hunger for more believable escapes.

This Vn seriously does something right for me as is.

Yeah i was pleasantly surprised by this one myself. I think most of the girls are well characterized and have mostly fairly realistic behaviors, which really helps.

It does do a bit of something which I think I see a bit too frequently in these kinds of things, which is to give you a smorgasbord of options that aren't that well developed instead of focusing on a few better developed characters. That is something that the best VNs - like DrPinkCake and EvaKiss's works - do really well. I think this is in an intention of appealing to a wide range of fetishes and types of interactions, but often that means that there's not enough differentiation between potential interactions beyond really broad strokes of looks and body types.

I think creators are overly sensitive to being criticized for making a character who isn't a LI option and having people post things like 'man why isnt (charname) an option?!? I wanted an asian girl'

Consolidating characters and giving the player more control over the relationships with them (both in terms of things like fetish content or even looks) generally makes for better games, because you're more likely to get invested in a character who is better developed. Most people, especially younger ones like are almost universally the LIs in VN-type games, are rarely hard locked into certain sexual behaviors or fetishes. Instead of making 'submissive girl' and 'femdom girl' as separate characters, a lot of the time creators would be better off creating one better-developed girl and letting the sexual content of the relationship change based on character interaction and preferences. You see this a lot with content people are afraid will offend people or turn them off (like making trans or NTR content optional). For example, Jamie here is fundamentally pretty submissive in her facilitation of the MC's sex life, but it wouldn't be that hard to create a path of the same relationship where the MC is less assertive sexually and she takes more control of making similar things happening, for similar reasons, but instead with a flavor of her being in control, instead of having to have a different female character to create the 'contest of wills' dynamic).

The reality of sex is that people, especially younger people who aren't that experienced, will try things and do things for their partner because they are really into them. Characters don't have to be locked into a sexual role in most cases. An environment where an equally-devoted, loving Jamie realizes that the protagonist prefers to let their partner have control during sex could quite easily give rise to femdom type content - and it would be a in a lot of ways better than introducing a new, femdom character to provide that option, because you're already invested in the characters.

 

[Ghostface Reborn]

i'm more eager for shauna, willow and vanessa

 

[Ghostface Reborn]

I work from home myself even before shit hit the fan with the pandemic. I always have the site open in the background waiting for any notifications to pop up that's why I always seem to be here

this pandemic has ruined things for a mod i'm working on.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

Yeah i was pleasantly surprised by this one myself. I think most of the girls are well characterized and have mostly fairly realistic behaviors, which really helps.

It does do a bit of something which I think I see a bit too frequently in these kinds of things, which is to give you a smorgasbord of options that aren't that well developed instead of focusing on a few better developed characters. That is something that the best VNs - like DrPinkCake and EvaKiss's works - do really well. I think this is in an intention of appealing to a wide range of fetishes and types of interactions, but often that means that there's not enough differentiation between potential interactions beyond really broad strokes of looks and body types.

I think creators are overly sensitive to being criticized for making a character who isn't a LI option and having people post things like 'man why isnt (charname) an option?!? I wanted an asian girl'

Consolidating characters and giving the player more control over the relationships with them (both in terms of things like fetish content or even looks) generally makes for better games, because you're more likely to get invested in a character who is better developed. Most people, especially younger ones like are almost universally the LIs in VN-type games, are rarely hard locked into certain sexual behaviors or fetishes. Instead of making 'submissive girl' and 'femdom girl' as separate characters, a lot of the time creators would be better off creating one better-developed girl and letting the sexual content of the relationship change based on character interaction and preferences. You see this a lot with content people are afraid will offend people or turn them off (like making trans or NTR content optional). For example, Jamie here is fundamentally pretty submissive in her facilitation of the MC's sex life, but it wouldn't be that hard to create a path of the same relationship where the MC is less assertive sexually and she takes more control of making similar things happening, for similar reasons, but instead with a flavor of her being in control, instead of having to have a different female character to create the 'contest of wills' dynamic).

The reality of sex is that people, especially younger people who aren't that experienced, will try things and do things for their partner because they are really into them. Characters don't have to be locked into a sexual role in most cases. An environment where an equally-devoted, loving Jamie realizes that the protagonist prefers to let their partner have control during sex could quite easily give rise to femdom type content - and it would be a in a lot of ways better than introducing a new, femdom character to provide that option, because you're already invested in the characters.

Its such a delicate balance when trying to please and entertain a group of people. People in mass seem to hate change. The backlash of having a character like Jamie "change" or explore her other sides while being very humanistic and set in realism would alienate a huge slice of the followers of the VN. A dev can only hope to create what they love and hope others enjoy it.
I would love to see a VN as complex as you're suggesting but same time it would seem like it would be a nightmare to make.
That said this is still a new world to me and I'm soooo still learning about it

 

[thorin0815]

I maybe a minority but I don't necessarily play for the realism of college basketball...

No? Blasphemy!

 

[thorin0815]

A dev can only hope to create what they love and hope others enjoy it.

There is probably no better way to express it. In my opinion, a developer/writer should be his own biggest fan first. If he doesn't enjoy his own story, how should others do?

 

[Heavy Sleeper]

Yeah i was pleasantly surprised by this one myself. I think most of the girls are well characterized and have mostly fairly realistic behaviors, which really helps.

It does do a bit of something which I think I see a bit too frequently in these kinds of things, which is to give you a smorgasbord of options that aren't that well developed instead of focusing on a few better developed characters. That is something that the best VNs - like DrPinkCake and EvaKiss's works - do really well. I think this is in an intention of appealing to a wide range of fetishes and types of interactions, but often that means that there's not enough differentiation between potential interactions beyond really broad strokes of looks and body types.

I think creators are overly sensitive to being criticized for making a character who isn't a LI option and having people post things like 'man why isnt (charname) an option?!? I wanted an asian girl'

Consolidating characters and giving the player more control over the relationships with them (both in terms of things like fetish content or even looks) generally makes for better games, because you're more likely to get invested in a character who is better developed. Most people, especially younger ones like are almost universally the LIs in VN-type games, are rarely hard locked into certain sexual behaviors or fetishes. Instead of making 'submissive girl' and 'femdom girl' as separate characters, a lot of the time creators would be better off creating one better-developed girl and letting the sexual content of the relationship change based on character interaction and preferences. You see this a lot with content people are afraid will offend people or turn them off (like making trans or NTR content optional). For example, Jamie here is fundamentally pretty submissive in her facilitation of the MC's sex life, but it wouldn't be that hard to create a path of the same relationship where the MC is less assertive sexually and she takes more control of making similar things happening, for similar reasons, but instead with a flavor of her being in control, instead of having to have a different female character to create the 'contest of wills' dynamic).

The reality of sex is that people, especially younger people who aren't that experienced, will try things and do things for their partner because they are really into them. Characters don't have to be locked into a sexual role in most cases. An environment where an equally-devoted, loving Jamie realizes that the protagonist prefers to let their partner have control during sex could quite easily give rise to femdom type content - and it would be a in a lot of ways better than introducing a new, femdom character to provide that option, because you're already invested in the characters.

But you are comparing a harem, to a more heavy story games. Sure, you could let Jamie explore her sexual side more. But that's not really the point of a true harem, and for the most part unless you are willing to work for a really long time on all the routes and different dialog all of this will take(for 10+women). It will be a giant waste of time, and the code will break under it's own mess.

This is a story that meant to mainly make the reader feel good, and not worry too much about beyond that(barring any drama coming with Ryker). Trying to be too realistic in porn fantasy will cause you to lose the fantasy aspect of it.

The reason it works for the games you cited is because you supposed to end up with one of them, or maybe a threesome.

But that's the appeal of a harem, a group of women wanting one man. As long as the story doesn't suffer in it's core because of that, but that's hard and I think that's where BD succeed where other devs fail. He made a giant group of women, but all of them feel fun to be around even if you just want to be friends with them.

 

[zoyle]

Its such a delicate balance when trying to please and entertain a group of people. People in mass seem to hate change. The backlash of having a character like Jamie "change" or explore her other sides while being very humanistic and set in realism would alienate a huge slice of the followers of the VN. A dev can only hope to create what they love and hope others enjoy it.
I would love to see a VN as complex as you're suggesting but same time it would seem like it would be a nightmare to make.
That said this is still a new world to me and I'm soooo still learning about it

Well that's the thing, I don't think you present it as change, but as separate paths. Play an assertive character, get one result. Play a less assertive character, get a different result. I don't actually think it would be more complex or resource intensive - devs already have to do complex scene renders for all these different girls - instead, you're doing the same number of renders, just of the same girl.

It's really the same as how the games already play out - branching decision paths leading to different scenes and options - but instead of it being 'do you date girl X OR girl Y' it is 'does your sex with your girl look like X or Y?'

Instead of a buffet of 10-12 options, you have 2-4, and then you concentrate those resources in better developing those few characters.

It would cut down on 'choose all of the options' gameplay, but the reality is that most VNs only support that for a limited time.

An example of a game that works like this is Sisterly Lust - you have some side options, but really you have 4 primary sexual interests, and most of those relationships change substantially based on your choices (like Bella is the most extreme example in that one). And it does that despite SL being a harem game, where your choices often have a lot less of an impact because you don't really face very many consequences. I think SL is the best completed 'harem' style game I have played (this game not being completed, I am not comparing them) and a big part of that is how much more time you get to get invested in the 3 girls.

 

[Braindrop]

Haha render machine go brrr

 

[Spfjolietjake]

Well that's the thing, I don't think you present it as change, but as separate paths. Play an assertive character, get one result. Play a less assertive character, get a different result. I don't actually think it would be more complex or resource intensive - devs already have to do complex scene renders for all these different girls - instead, you're doing the same number of renders, just of the same girl.

It's really the same as how the games already play out - branching decision paths leading to different scenes and options - but instead of it being 'do you date girl X OR girl Y' it is 'does your sex with your girl look like X or Y?'

Instead of a buffet of 10-12 options, you have 2-4, and then you concentrate those resources in better developing those few characters.

It would cut down on 'choose all of the options' gameplay, but the reality is that most VNs only support that for a limited time.

An example of a game that works like this is Sisterly Lust - you have some side options, but really you have 4 primary sexual interests, and most of those relationships change substantially based on your choices (like Bella is the most extreme example in that one). And it does that despite SL being a harem game, where your choices often have a lot less of an impact because you don't really face very many consequences.

Interesting. I love SL. I must admit I personally would want to try a game like you suggest honestly. The only catch I see is even on this site it seems every poster wants a different type of woman both looks and personality. Thank you for giving me food for thought

 

[$JACKIE1492]

She took my breath away cheers

 

[zoyle]

Interesting. I love SL. I must admit I personally would want to try a game like you suggest honestly. The only catch I see is even on this site it seems every poster wants a different type of woman both looks and personality. Thank you for giving me food for thought

I guess what I would point out is that developers can give you the same number of choices by having branching paths with less girls. As far as looks, that doesn't work so well with body types/ethnicities but you can certainly do it with sexual roles, personalities, and even physical details like hair color.

Its kind of the opposite because she is the protagonist but think about how many options you have to affect the looks of Ashley in Good Girl Gone Bad (which is probably the best completed/finished VN on the site, right?). Boyfriends get asked a lot about clothing choices and 'hum i was thinking about going blonde' type stuff, especially once people are actually living together - 'which of these should I wear today', etc.

Also, if you make your characters well they're hot even if they don't hit exactly on what people are into. I prefer blondes, but generally don't like the 'shaved/buzzed side of the head' look and am a boobs guy - but Bailey is still hot as shit because she's got a well-developed personality and her submissive sexual behavior goes really well with her physically petite look. It doesn't matter if she includes elements I usually dislike - the whole package is a likable, attractive character.

 

[Heavy Sleeper]

Well that's the thing, I don't think you present it as change, but as separate paths. Play an assertive character, get one result. Play a less assertive character, get a different result. I don't actually think it would be more complex or resource intensive - devs already have to do complex scene renders for all these different girls - instead, you're doing the same number of renders, just of the same girl.

It's really the same as how the games already play out - branching decision paths leading to different scenes and options - but instead of it being 'do you date girl X OR girl Y' it is 'does your sex with your girl look like X or Y?'

Instead of a buffet of 10-12 options, you have 2-4, and then you concentrate those resources in better developing those few characters.

It would cut down on 'choose all of the options' gameplay, but the reality is that most VNs only support that for a limited time.

An example of a game that works like this is Sisterly Lust - you have some side options, but really you have 4 primary sexual interests, and most of those relationships change substantially based on your choices (like Bella is the most extreme example in that one). And it does that despite SL being a harem game, where your choices often have a lot less of an impact because you don't really face very many consequences. I think SL is the best completed 'harem' style game I have played (this game not being completed, I am not comparing them) and a big part of that is how much more time you get to get invested in the 3 girls.

Honestly I played SL, and I didn't care too much about that. As I felt like the game ending up forcing a lot it's renders on some routes while leaving the other really bare. If you don't go with the femdom path, you basically lose more then half of the character + a chance with another girl. I much prefer a harem that doesn't lock you out of a full harem just because you don't enjoy a certain fetish.