VN Ren'Py Zero End [v0.2.4d] [StolenRose]

[EndlessNights]

The setting in Zero End(secluded place of learning with weird shit going on) is inspired by

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. I played it a long time ago and always felt like the game nailed the atmosphere, but didn't really do the setting justice.

Spoiler: Divi-Dead screenshot

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I'm also really into mythology and mystical/magical practices, so there's some inspiration drawn from that too.

I did play Divi-Dead back in the day and can totally see the connection with Zero End, especially the way both games explore the idea of having a "monster inside." Caleb, Rayne, and Marie/Victoria all seem to have dual natures though they do not all seem equally sinister. And both games (as well as VTMB) do a great job of establishing a creepy atmosphere with the music choices, dark scenes, weirdness, and general sense of impending doom or danger.

I think I've said this before, but I absolutely love the sequence of events that starts with Caleb leaving the party early and going for a smoke. The campus at night, the creepy meditation session, and that enigmatic conversation with Selena (no idea why I keep wanting to call her Serena) are all scenes with fantastic atmosphere.

I also found Divi-Dead lacking except in atmosphere. The story felt like a fever dream and I remember feeling thoroughly confused when the protagonist ends up at that house with the dark-haired woman. There was definitely some missed potential there. Maybe the lesson is that a dev should never let atmosphere and mystery completely overwhelm the storytelling. Also, even as a horror veteran who has seen it all and can tolerate gore, I still tend to dislike seeing animals or kids get hurt or killed...that veers the story more towards tragedy to me. I like that Zero End is full of characters who seem fully capable of facing the supernatural -- no one seems particularly vulnerable other than Brianna, and I have a feeling she's tougher than she might seem at first glance.

Soon after I asked you the question about influences I stumbled back onto the front page and noticed one of the first things mentioned in the FP is about influences. Oops! I also remembered your interesting exchange with Bonnie75 about arcane inspirations. I could totally see myself checking out some grimoires, but now after playing the game I'm a bit worried about what I might accidentally summon from the depths...

Spoiler

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[ostrogotihichun]

Spoiler: Meadow Herb

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Whenever I try to pick up the herb from the meadow, Drake just goes to the other end of the meadow and stands there. Anyone else got this problem?

wrong game lol

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

wrong game lol

yes but

don't worry about it

it happens to all of us

especially with my reading disability, I post things in the wrong forum

by accident all the time

 

[Alleycat_2017]

wrong game lol

Yeah, I was looking around the other thread wondering where the heck the post had gone!

Deleted it.

 

[bacienvu88]

I finally got around to playing this. Excellent game. I especially like the atmosphere and mystery of the game. Although sometimes it comes close to being too much mystery so that it is hard to follow what happens. And I also like that all characters have their own motivations, secrets and goals. And neither the Lunatics nor the Cultists are that homogeneous. Great character design overall so far.

I am a bit split on the stats and chosen deity though. On one hand it gives a lot of variation and interesting branching. On the other it often feels like I need to have already played the game to make relevant choices. In particular this applies to selecting the chosen deity. While the stat increase is straight forward, when, where and how the deity will help out is very hard to predict in that choice.

Will follow with interest.

 

[EndlessNights]

I finally got around to playing this. Excellent game. I especially like the atmosphere and mystery of the game. Although sometimes it comes close to being too much mystery so that it is hard to follow what happens. And I also like that all characters have their own motivations, secrets and goals. And neither the Lunatics nor the Cultists are that homogeneous. Great character design overall so far.

I am a bit split on the stats and chosen deity though. On one hand it gives a lot of variation and interesting branching. On the other it often feels like I need to have already played the game to make relevant choices. In particular this applies to selecting the chosen deity. While the stat increase is straight forward, when, where and how the deity will help out is very hard to predict in that choice.

Will follow with interest.

It's great to have you here!

I don't think of Zero End as being a game where you make "bad" choices that cause you to miss content...at least not so far. Instead, I'd say it lets you make different but equal choices and see different content as a result of them. Every deity will give you different scenes and dialogue over time, but most likely none of them will be vital to understanding the story. I'd say you shouldn't think of some deities as being better than others. They'll just give your particular playthrough a slightly different feel and flavor as well as enhance your roleplaying experience. That initial stat bonus from the deity choice still feels important, but that's mostly because it's still early on. Eventually, I'm sure even Aphrodite worshippers will be able to become great fighters.

I do find it very fun to go back and explore what if scenarios based on what we've learned in our earlier playthroughs. For instance, I loved being be able to start a new playthrough and beat Keira in the fight after losing to her previously and give a good speech after first giving a lousy one. However, if I hadn't gone back and explored these alternative scenarios I still would have loved the game and not much would really have changed in the story. You can enjoy the game perfectly well with a single playthrough. Don't sweat the choices -- enjoy them!

 

[bacienvu88]

It's great to have you here!

Thanks!

I don't think of Zero End as being a game where you make "bad" choices that cause you to miss content...at least not so far. Instead, I'd say it lets you make different but equal choices and see different content as a result of them. Every deity will give you different scenes and dialogue over time, but most likely none of them will be vital to understanding the story. I'd say you shouldn't think of some deities as being better than others. They'll just give your particular playthrough a slightly different feel and flavor as well as enhance your roleplaying experience. That initial stat bonus from the deity choice still feels important, but that's mostly because it's still early on.

I don't mean it as choices being "bad" in the sense of missing content, but more of what fits together. Which deity, stats fits best with which LI? Is it better to be more of jack-of-all-trades or min/max-ing? I guess I have too much of a gamer habit to try to optimize my builds.

As for roleplaying. I felt it was hard to do roleplaying at least for the first episode when playing blind since I didn't have a good feel for the characters which feeds into my understanding of the story.

And one of the reasons I think for my feeling of needing to have played the game to make good choices is that some of the options is a bit random when they take effect. Especially when pertaining to deities. For example, when you are put on the spot in class by Professor Very Strict you can answer through 4 different methods, but I find it a bit random that the intellect deity is helping on the intellect option but the respective deities for persuasion and intuition are not helping for their options.

And regards to "bad" options I find that there are two options that only bring negatives except for short sex scenes.

Eventually, I'm sure even Aphrodite worshippers will be able to become great fighters.

My main Keira run has Aphrodite as deity for now because of Keira's masturbation scene.

In general I find it unnecessary to choose a deity for a stat that you will get lots of anyway in your run.

I do find it very fun to go back and explore what if scenarios based on what we've learned in our earlier playthroughs. For instance, I loved being be able to start a new playthrough and beat Keira in the fight after losing to her previously and give a good speech after first giving a lousy one. However, if I hadn't gone back and explored these alternative scenarios I still would have loved the game and not much would really have changed in the story. You can enjoy the game perfectly well with a single playthrough. Don't sweat the choices -- enjoy them!

Yeah, exploring the different options is fun. For example I appreciate the extra dialog with Landon if you don't intervene in his fight with Brandon.

But I also use the source to enlighten me on interesting routes.

 

[EndlessNights]

I don't mean it as choices being "bad" in the sense of missing content, but more of what fits together. Which deity, stats fits best with which LI? Is it better to be more of jack-of-all-trades or min/max-ing? I guess I have too much of a gamer habit to try to optimize my builds.

Well, that's certainly a valid way to play if you're having fun building the ultimate Caleb. Personally, though, I tend to choose a deity and focus on particular stats based on the type of character I'm trying to play in that run. I put more emphasis on the roleplaying with the assumption Caleb won't be completely locked out of a relationship path just because a stat is too low or their deities are incompatible. Although you can miss scenes with LIs based on stats, that doesn't necessarily mean you're off their paths since the dating/relationship part of the game hasn't really started in earnest yet.

And one of the reasons I think for my feeling of needing to have played the game to make good choices is that some of the options is a bit random when they take effect. Especially when pertaining to deities. For example, when you are put on the spot in class by Professor Very Strict you can answer through 4 different methods, but I find it a bit random that the intellect deity is helping on the intellect option but the respective deities for persuasion and intuition are not helping for their options.

I kind of like that the deities are, if not crazy, at least arbitrary and independent actors. Sometimes they'll help you out, sometimes they won't. That's divine prerogative! They're not skills or powers we can use whenever we want or something we can necessarily count on to bail us out of trouble. If you've done a Luna run, you've seen how the Dean doesn't really seem to fear Luna despite worshipping her...I'm not sure whether that tells us more about the deities and their tendency not to interfere too heavily in human affairs or the Dean's relentless pursuit of her own interests.

And regards to "bad" options I find that there are two options that only bring negatives except for short sex scenes.

Are you talking about deity choices here or later game choices?

My main Keira run has Aphrodite as deity for now because of Keira's masturbation scene.

I like Astarte better for a Keira romance path because it seems less likely to lead to an abusive relationship. Actually, all the possible outcomes of the Keira fight are interesting. Refusing to fight makes a lot of sense and would definitely be the right play in real life. If you call on Brandon, he proves himself to be a fantastic champion to have on your side. Keira winning shows us just how tough she is and reveals that our boy probably needs to start doing some more training pronto. Caleb winning, especially after losing at least once, is quite satisfying particularly since Keira is in the wrong by being so aggressive for such a silly reason and the fight also reveals the true might of Astarte.

 

[bacienvu88]

Well, that's certainly a valid way to play if you're having fun building the ultimate Caleb. Personally, though, I tend to choose a deity and focus on particular stats based on the type of character I'm trying to play in that run. I put more emphasis on the roleplaying with the assumption Caleb won't be completely locked out of a relationship path just because a stat is too low or their deities are incompatible. Although you can miss scenes with LIs based on stats, that doesn't necessarily mean you're off their paths since the dating/relationship part of the game hasn't really started in earnest yet.

You could see min/max-ing as roleplaying since Caleb is a pretty calculating in his actions (at least mostly). More seriously, the what Caleb would do (according to how you play him) when you encounter choices that causes a conflict between preferred stats, preferred LI and morality.

Another point is that the way I played Caleb in my first playtrough was to talk to as many different people as possible to make him get a feel for everyone. But that way makes you miss most relationship content.

I kind of like that the deities are, if not crazy, at least arbitrary and independent actors. Sometimes they'll help you out, sometimes they won't. That's divine prerogative! They're not skills or powers we can use whenever we want or something we can necessarily count on to bail us out of trouble.

Ok, that is a pretty good way to look at it.

If you've done a Luna run, you've seen how the Dean doesn't really seem to fear Luna despite worshipping her...I'm not sure whether that tells us more about the deities and their tendency not to interfere too heavily in human affairs or the Dean's relentless pursuit of her own interests.

Well, there is a reason why I prefer to call them The Lunatic Order rather than The Lunar Order. And the Dean seem to be the biggest lunatic of them all.

Are you talking about deity choices here or later game choices?

I am talking about the choices to have sex with Odette and/or Swansong (and you can only have sex with Swansong if you have Morrigan or Aphrodite as deity). But I was wrong. They both give a fair amount of Seduction XP. The reason I think they are bad choices though is that you gain points with Marie if you refrain. Although she is mean about it either way ...

 

[bacienvu88]

Stolen_rose
I was looking around in the source code and I discovered that the stat for the selected deity will grow more slowly than the other stats. E.g. for a non-deity stat going from level 13 -> 14 requires 172 XP. The same step for a deity-stat requires 207 XP. This means that total XP required to reach level 20 and above is lower for a normal stat compared to a deity stat.

Is this intentional? It does make a bit of sense; at least for when you choose no deity and all stats become deity stats so that not just becomes a cheat mode.

Spoiler: Arguments and XP table

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[Stolen_rose]

I kind of like that the deities are, if not crazy, at least arbitrary and independent actors. Sometimes they'll help you out, sometimes they won't. That's divine prerogative! They're not skills or powers we can use whenever we want or something we can necessarily count on to bail us out of trouble.

That is correct. While they don't make an appearance, they are characters, in a sense. Not all interventions are to offer aid, also. In the Thoth example, the MC acts in service to correct something Thoth considers unbecoming of a teacher.

Stolen_rose
I was looking around in the source code and I discovered that the stat for the selected deity will grow more slowly than the other stats. E.g. for a non-deity stat going from level 13 -> 14 requires 172 XP. The same step for a deity-stat requires 207 XP. This means that total XP required to reach level 20 and above is lower for a normal stat compared to a deity stat.

Is this intentional? It does make a bit of sense; at least for when you choose no deity and all stats become deity stats so that not just becomes a cheat mode.

Spoiler: Arguments and XP table

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Let's call that a happy accident. When I designed the progression system, all stats started at 1, but a friend (rightfully) pointed out that getting into college with an intelligence of 1 would be strange, so I moved all to start at 10. That made me confuse myself because it didn't actually shift +10, but rather +9. Now, that could be fixed, but it actually works in line with my design as I wanted some, but not a lot, of variation between stats on any given playthrough(I don't want people to make choices based on stat XP, but rather the choices they want to make).

 

[_FY_]

I am talking about the choices to have sex with Odette and/or Swansong (and you can only have sex with Swansong if you have Morrigan or Aphrodite as deity). But I was wrong. They both give a fair amount of Seduction XP. The reason I think they are bad choices though is that you gain points with Marie if you refrain. Although she is mean about it either way ...

The trade-off is quite fair in my eyes. How can anyone say no to this sweet face?

Spoiler: Aphrodite spoiler

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Although it is clear by the end of this particular lewd scene Swansong has the advantage, this was one of my favorite moments in the game so far - Caleb temporarily having the upper hand and her vulnerability being on display, that is if I've interpreted this correctly. Swansong is easily one of my favorite characters. I hope for more character growth and scenes with her in the future even if she is more of an antagonist so far.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

The trade-off is quite fair in my eyes. How can anyone say no to this sweet face?

Spoiler: Scene spoiler

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Although it is clear by the end of this particular lewd scene Swansong has the advantage, this was one of my favorite moments in the game so far - Caleb temporarily having the upper hand and her vulnerability being on display, that is if I've interpreted this correctly. Swansong is easily one of my favorite characters. I hope for more character growth and scenes with her in the future.

Swansong is mine
View attachment final_6313b5db622f5400802b7703_177817.mp4

 

[EdselPresley]

New to the game, but I feel like I missed the first 5 minutes of the movie. I have no idea what's going on in this "World".

 

[_FY_]

New to the game, but I feel like I missed the first 5 minutes of the movie. I have no idea what's going on in this "World".

This is intentional. Zero End isn't a typical AVN where you're given a rundown of everything that has happened to the main character and who they are as a person, or even the world itself. All of this is slowly revealed over time. You should be fairly up to speed by the end of the current update if you continue, but there are still numerous mysteries that remain. Think of it like peeling an onion, gradually uncovering new things over time. The story is excellent so far, but I can understand how it might be a little disorienting at first if you're expecting something else. Stick with it though; you won't be disappointed.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I didn't mean to imply you 'should' feel lost. You start off with a few basics. Caleb is the main character. He gets mysteriously accepted into college. Caleb senses things are a bit off, etc. From there, read attentively and enjoy the story.

 

[bacienvu88]

Hello! I have made a walkthrough of Zero End. The walkthrough is currently for version 0.1.3c.

Please comment if something is in error in the walkthrough or if you have any other feedback.

Walkthrough Zero End.pdf

 

[_FY_]

This game is horrible solely because of the pigpen cypher part, any VN that requires you to use google is objectively bad.

Game is bad because of a google search? This is one of the worst takes I've come across on F95 so far. It literally takes less than a minute to figure out. It's okay if you don't like puzzles and problem solving, but to discredit a VN for one small part seems petty and unreasonable.

 

[Alleycat_2017]

I searched the cypher because I wasn't aware of it. I am now. It was fun finding out something new. It was refreshing to find a puzzle that took some real world research to solve. For me it made the puzzle solving more interesting. It's not for everyone, but it doesn't make a game objectively bad. It's subjective, because it only affects those who don't like to do that .

 

[Stolen_rose]

This game is horrible solely because of the pigpen cypher part

So what you're saying is that everything else is good. Thanks, glad you liked it.

 

[Crimsonfiend76]

Game looks very interesting, but what I gather is that the puzzles are unavoidable? Also, I'm ok with no harem or wincest, but are we punished for being a manwhore? Can we date multiple LIs before committing to one and will there be a possible throuple path?