ZombiesRetreat2Gridlocked-0.22Beta
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I can't understand why the game is being developed so slowly. It's just a game on RPG Maker, built on ready-made assets. If you really want to, everything here can be put together in a week, especially when there are so many technologies that simplify the work of both artists and developers. It's not 1995 anymore. How long has the second part been in development, 4 years? How much content is already ready? At the same time, the author is developing, what, 3 more games in parallel with a teaspoon of content per month? The sex scenes consist of one pose until the first orgasm, which is not even animated (hello black screen, shame). It all seems like a joke. It feels like ScarlettAnn and Siren do their work 30 minutes a week, in between their other things, but they get disproportionately more money. It's surprising that they don't have competitors who are more diligent in their work.
I haven't played part 2 yet, I was waiting it to be completed... Tell me does it have more content than part 1?
This is such a weak mentality that pretty much says "please developers keep abusing me!".
People are allowed to criticise stuff they don't approve of, and they do not need to be experts at the criticised topic. Fans dont need to be professional players to criticise football players. Customers don't need to be michelin chefs to criticise the food they eat at a restaurant. Citizens don't have to be economists to complain about failing economies, nor do they need to be master administrators to criticise their governments.
If you honestly think the money Siren makes justifies the bare minimum effort they put towards their games, you can voice that without making a statement that reeks of appealing to authority.
5k gross a month is an amount of money only a few indie developers can even dream of.
Not a bad outfit for Meredith, this update didn't do much to tide me over for the next real update though.
About equal
No, it's a valid response when it concerns people talking about things that they demonstrate they know nothing about.
If their criticism of a particular and/or specialised field is not based on their own experience in that field but on how they think it should be, then any criticism of theirs can be completely disregarded and that person laughed at.
That's a horrendous example and is not comparable.
Another horribly exaggerated example.
These are the only examples you've given that actually hold up. The rest were all incredibly generalised and excessively hyperbolic, whilst those two were unusually specific by comparison.
What precisely constitutes the bare minimum of effort for an indie developer that works on multiple projects?
I ask, because you're speaking as though you're some sort of authority on the subject yet you give terrible examples of why anyone can criticise anything without having any actual knowledge or experience in what they're criticisng.
It depends on where he is and what his outgoings are... Taxes are a thing, after all.
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While I am tired of Siren's production cycle because he is all over the place with 3+ games.
I at least appreciate his clarity on his releases...
Now if you're a subscriber, feel free to take your complaints to the discord, vs ya know a pirate site...
Siren has some structure... Scarlet holds things up too... But in reality they are a smaller team than the folk over at Demon Deals. (whom IMO blow almost every dev out of the water here...) I believe Siren is solo with him outsourcing the art as well animation if I recall... ( I know Siren had an animator edit Scarlett's scenes in ZR1. So I'm lead to believe it's the same case here...)
Do I pay for Siren, No, I did and I was an active subscriber of ZR1, I've been underwhelmed with ZR2, so I haven't really reupped...
I've said it once and I'll say it again, I feel siren is spread too thin... or his deadlines are too loose with his artist... but delays happen...
But whining on a pirate site is a moot point, Siren and Scarlett make good content although it takes a while to release... BUT SIREN ALSO RELEASES 3 OTHER GAMES at one time...
Jesus lay off "production cycles" and let them make their work...
Yeah yeah, "pirate site you have no say in this". No I don't, and honestly Siren stringing along his patrons is nothing new, and Siren certainly isn't the first to do it. In the end it doesnt hurt me one bit. You guys defending him or not really doesn't change anything as well, it's none of us getting swindled as long as you are not subscribed.
I dont really know how to seperate quotes so bear with me as I just go through everything.
No one asked him to work on 3 projects at the same time? Should I feel some sort of understanding because he himself created extra workload on himself? I am not being cruel here, of course I understand the heavier workload of having multiple projects to work on at the same time but I am not the one that imposed such a schedule on him.
None of my examples are exaggarated, the person that was being called out does not have to be able to output a basic RPGM game in a week to be able to point out Siren's development cycle is all over the place. I never said 0 knowledge on the topic whatsoever, you just dont need to be an actual developer to understand what a healthy development cycle of an indie game looks like. Many examples of it on this site, on steam, on wherever. I think it is pretty weird that you feel the the need to ridicule and laugh at such comments.
If you have any amazing and appropriate examples for me, please do elaborate.
Would it be fine if I said "Customers don't need to be able to cook to tell whether a food provided by a restaurant tastes bad"? Or If I said "I don't need to have a training in football to be able to say messi/ronaldo are among the best players." At that point, my point is still the same and you are using the fact that I used hyperbole to dispute my argument which makes no sense since the hyperboles used does not alter the point I am making. You don't need to be a developer to say a game is taking way too long to develop considering its scope.
I am not an authority, I do not need to be an authority. I am making comparisons, this thread is 4+ years old at this point. The first zombie's retreat was a complete story in 1-2 years. The update is a bust, a single scene and a fluff outfit. At this rate its going to take years and all it's going to do is hurt its own popularity. Even games like hollow knight were released in like 2-3 years, with a complete score, artwork, code, through kickstarter( around 36k raised in total, which is probably less than Siren's patreon income throughout the development of Zombie's Retreat 2. ) and by 3 people, I think it is pretty applicable.
Finally, I tried to say "before expenses" but my use of "gross" was wrong.
In the end, not my game, not my job, not even a patron so its not me that has to consider my investment, people are free to throw money at whatever they want. Cheers.
Not sure how other people do it, but I manually put the start and end quote sections in manually for each section.
Don't be absurd.
Simply remember and take that fact into account.
You're not being fair either.
Yes, they are.
The ones that are, as explained, lack the same context as that which you were worked up about.
In this case, he really does...
Go back and read what he wrote. Actually read it...
You can't possibly be so naive...
No.
I'm not here to teach you how to use contextually and comparitively appropriate examples.
That's better in general, but still not applicable in context because it's likely to be purely subjective.
Seriously?
That's not even criticism.
Your use of hyperbole was ridiculous, and absolutely deserved to be pointed out. Furthermore, it damages any possible credibility your argument could have had.
Except that's not what was said... Again, go back and read.
Mostly terrible comparisons.
So what?
It was also a smaller and less complex game to make.
That's a completely different criticism, and while subjective is still a valid criticism to make.
So?
That comparison is applicable... Shame that neither you or Ruvu actually made that kind of comparison.
So net instead of gross... Which we don't know what that is, so making claims based on how much money Siren actually gets after all deductions is stupid.
If only more people remeberd that.
I've made that kind of comparison right now, bad of me to assume other people also could do so in their head through some other games they've followed/played.
Eh, whatever you say, I got to leave for my night shift, I'll probably forget to reply when I come back so;
This is going to go nowhere. I am going to say A you will say B. Let's just let it go, I'm sure Siren is doing whatever he needs to do to keep his patrons happy, which at that point I have nothing else to add.
I was waiting for this comment. I tried to develop games on RPG Maker and make animations myself. If you try it yourself, you will be surprised how easy and fast it is. Making animation for a scene is about 3 hours of work (for a beginner). The same amount of time will be spent on preparing art if you use modern tools. Siren has not been developing for over 5 years, he makes the same thing using the same template. His games on RPG Maker look absolutely the same as they did 5 years ago. The content is the same, everything is technically the same. Hell, Zombie Life looked more technologically advanced in some aspects. The development speed has decreased significantly during this time. If you remember, there was a time when updates were released every 2 weeks. I have only one assumption - he and other team members have been working on these games for a long time in their free time from their main job and family matters, but they continue to release a teaspoon of content per month, because it brings in a stable additional income. As long as people pay like they do now, there is no incentive to do better and develop the project technologically. History repeats itself over and over again, Siren, Jackerman, DarkCookie, etc. It will only get worse, they are becoming lazier and less interested. If you ask me about good examples, then you should look at, for example, Breadman, aPieceOfTissue or Poolside Games or Japanese developers like DojinOtome, who are developing much harder and filling their games with more content.
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