Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.9] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Skandranon]

Community submissions are kinda the basis of the whole game, tbh. To avoid the problem you're talking about, you'd not only have to eliminate commissions, youd have to kill ALL content submissions, even the free ones - for instance, the whole corrupt Lupine plotline, and the upcoming Drifa character was a community submission, no commission involved, written by a non staff author.

If you wanted tonal consistency, you'd probably have to eliminate all community submitted content in general, and keep the writing to a small pool of authors.

At that point you're talking about a completely different model and a completely different game, and probably a much smaller, much less successful one.
Which would also translate to less staff, less writing, etc.

The issues you're talking about are the reasons they've made it to a third game at all, imo. Without community stuff, this game basically just doesn't exist.

 

[muschi26]

Community submissions are kinda the basis of the whole game, tbh. To avoid the problem you're talking about, you'd not only have to eliminate ALL content submissions - for instance, the whole corrupt Lupine plotline, and the upcoming Drifa character was a community submission, no commission involved, written by a non staff author.

If you wanted tonal consistency, you'd probably have to eliminate all community submitted content in general, and keep the writing to a small pool of authors.

At that point you're talking about a completely different model and a completely different game, and probably a much smaller, much less successful one.
Which would also translate to less staff, less writing, etc.

The issues you're talking about are the reasons they've made it to a third game at all, imo. Without community stuff, this game basically just doesn't exist.

You could keep community submissions, but at least focus on giving the core of the game, which is handled by the same mostly consistent team of writers, a clearer artistic direction and tone.

Or community submissions could be reworked by the core team (in collaboration with the submitter) to better fit with the cohesive whole the game should be trying to achieve.

That might be what's missing here, some sort of art director role.

 

[Ssato243]

has we said before savin is a shit manger

 

[Skandranon]

You could keep community submissions, but at least focus on giving the core of the game, which is handled by the same mostly consistent team of writers, a clearer artistic direction and tone.

Or community submissions could be reworked by the core team (in collaboration with the submitter) to better fit with the cohesive whole the game should be trying to achieve.

That might be what's missing here, some sort of art director role.

They already have that. That's Savins (and a few others I think) job.

Whether a good job is being done or not is eh. Too much of what you're talking about slows the content pipeline of a game that's already planned to be in dev for 6 years (and to hear some people tell it will be milked forever).

I think there's kind of a point you have to pick between speed, tonal consistency and quality (and probably a few other factors too) and the specific point they picked isn't going to work for everyone.

 

[Caedd]

So, with this latest version, 'tease' does health damage now?

 

[muschi26]

They already have that. That's Savins (and a few others I think) job.

Well, already if you have multiple people in the role, that's literally defeating the purpose. The point is to have one person in charge who has one vision, so that everyone else has a common thread and is always working in the same direction as the others. If you have multiple people in that role, that's when you get delays and stuff. In that case, you'd need a chief art director to direct those directors, but I don't think this production team is large enough to justify that.

 

[Skandranon]

Well, already if you have multiple people in the role, that's literally defeating the purpose. The point is to have one person in charge who has one vision, so that everyone else has a common thread and is always working in the same direction as the others. If you have multiple people in that role, that's when you get delays and stuff. In that case, you'd need a chief art director to direct those directors, but I don't think this production team is large enough to justify that.

Again, I'm guessing. I have no inner knowledge of what the review queue actually looks like.

But while I am guessing, I'm pretty sure this game is waaaaay bigger than you could conceivably have a single person be the editor for. The review queue, from what I understand is already a huge drag on progression as is - having a single person reviewing and rewriting what's probably upwards of a novels worth of words monthly seems untenable without a massive slowdown.

 

[muschi26]

Again, I'm guessing. I have no inner knowledge of what the review queue actually looks like.

But while I am guessing, I'm pretty sure this game is waaaaay bigger than you could conceivably have a single person be the editor for. The review queue, from what I understand is already a huge drag on progression as is - having a single person reviewing and rewriting what's probably upwards of a novels worth of words monthly seems untenable without a massive slowdown.

A director isn't rewriting anything. They would read the content submitted to them, annotate it with changes they'd like to see, and send it back to the author for modification. They wouldn't rework everything themselves.

 

[Wrynn13]

has we said before savin is a shit manger

I think it goes beyond that sadly. We know Savin is a cucklord, and this game is his baby. Odds are he gets off on the others (mainly Tobs) railing his baby, covering it in their flavor, bloating it with wordspew, as he impotently says "No, don't, Stop." He probably secretly wants modders to do the same thing while he feebly protests. Maintaining a coherent tone/vision would mean standing up for his baby's integrity, and he can't have that. Ugh this rant is starting to sound like kinkshaming and I don't want that, do what you will just stop ruining others fun for it I guess.

 

[Skandranon]

A director isn't rewriting anything. They would read the content submitted to them, annotate it with changes they'd like to see, and send it back to the author for modification. They wouldn't rework everything themselves.

An editor.

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For copy-editing (which, I think is actually a step down from what you're talking about) 4 to 7 weeks seems to be the norm for 95,000 words.

Last month there were single characters put out that released almost that much. There were definitely individual patches released with at least that many words, and there were 4 patches.

I just don't see it being possible and not halving (or worse) the speed of the game.

 

[MoneyMan181]

They already have that. That's Savins (and a few others I think) job.

Whether a good job is being done or not is eh. Too much of what you're talking about slows the content pipeline of a game that's already planned to be in dev for 6 years (and to hear some people tell it will be milked forever).

I think there's kind of a point you have to pick between speed, tonal consistency and quality (and probably a few other factors too) and the specific point they picked isn't going to work for everyone.

Well then, I don't think Savin or anybody else in that role is doing a great job because those Lusamine scenes are a little lacking to say the least. Like fucking Arona doesn't even do anything to Lusamine when she insults orcs(which is worse because it's basically racism). Yet Cait, the "lovable and friendly catgirl" freaks the fuck out for being called what she is. If that gets in, their standards aren't really high enough imo.

Well if the predicted dev time is 6 years, they just need to tone back on shit that isn't necessary. We don't need 50 quadrillion named NPCs, focus on the stuff that matters. For example: Why is there a second futa marefolk with an elf harem? It's unnecessary and doesn't add anything particularly new to the game. It's just an existing NPC with a different coat of paint, yet dev time went into it. We don't need multiple dommy futa centaurs that hit the exact same notes. We don't need the entirety of the kitsune den. We don't need that random spider lady in the foothills. We didn't have to build an entire fucking temple for Cait. Things don't seem like they're prioritized well at all, and I'd take a guess that's part of the reason the projected dev time is so long.

Even disregarding that, I wouldn't care if dev time was longer because of it. This isn't a game I'm super invested in(despite what my numerous rants might otherwise indicate) so I can wait if it means a better and more cohesive product.

Maybe I'm wrong and they're genuinely doing the best possible job they can with what they have. I heavily doubt it, but I hope they are. Only reason I'm writing all this shit is because I think the game has a lot of potential that's being squandered. I don't hate the devs. Hell, I practically know nothing about them. I just wish they could buckle down and seriously work on shit that matters instead of some stupid nonsense like Mayternity.

 

[Skandranon]

Like fucking Arona doesn't even do anything to Lusamine when she insults orcs(which is worse because it's basically racism).

Well...she slams and pins her against a wall and cockslaps her repeatedly iirc.

Not gonna disagree with you about the quality of the scene though but...Bubbles wrote them. Bubbles...kinda...sucks. I think there's like one thing he's ever written I've liked.

For example: Why is there a second futa marefolk with an elf harem? It's unnecessary and doesn't add anything particularly new to the game. It's just an existing NPC with a different coat of paint, yet dev time went into it. We don't need multiple dommy futa centaurs that hit the exact same notes. We don't need the entirety of the kitsune den. We don't need that random spider lady in the foothills. We didn't have to build an entire fucking temple for Cait.

Eh, idk. I like some of those things, and I'd hate not to have them. I think the large amount of variety is a significant part of what makes the wheels on this bus go. What you see as unnecessary probably isn't what I'd see as unnecessary, and vice versa.

Maybe I'm wrong and they're genuinely doing the best possible job they can with what they have. I heavily doubt it, but I hope they are. Only reason I'm writing all this shit is because I think the game has a lot of potential that's being squandered. I don't hate the devs. Hell, I practically know nothing about them. I just wish they could buckle down and seriously work on shit that matters instead of some stupid nonsense like Mayternity.

See, that's just it, people love Mayternity. Hell, Savin hates preg stuff, so Mayternity is something that happens specifically for the players. People in this very thread are always asking for pregshit for whoever their favorite characters are. And Mayternity was actually fairly well received here too, from what I noticed.



Idk, heres the way I think of it: what's your point of comparison?

This game puts out a good amount of content fairly regularly that doesn't read like it was written by someone who either speaks English as a 3rd language OR hasn't picked up a pencil since English 101.

Those qualities in and of themselves put it above like 99.9% of the games on this site. Games that stall for months at a time, announce a big rewrite and spend a year reducing the content of their game, pulling a Summertime Saga and putting out a patch every 4-5 months while promising some "big update" that slides ever further away, games that have a single dev who writes, codes and draws and is only good at one of those things...

Or even comparing it to the previous games.

CoC? With all of its dropped characters and ideas, little to no story and slapped together ending?

TiTs, in development for 8 years, took an entire year off and is getting most of its planned content cut, and also has a bevy of abandoned characters and areas?

FoE, which just died, full stop?

Idk, in the category of porn games, I can't offhand think of almost any projects near this scale that have gone anywhere near as well.

So I think they're doing a pretty decent job, all things considered.

 

[Kroenen12]

Like fucking Arona doesn't even do anything to Lusamine when she insults orcs(which is worse because it's basically racism).

poor arona, first brienne and now lusamine...

Spoiler: Racist cow

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[MoneyMan181]

See, that's just it, people love Mayternity. Hell, Savin hates preg stuff, so Mayternity is something that happens specifically for the players. People in this very thread are always asking for pregshit for whoever their favorite characters are. And Mayternity was actually fairly well received here too, from what I noticed.

If people clamor for pregshit that badly, yeah sure go ahead I guess. It was just an example of things that don't really contribute at all to forwarding the game or introduce anything special.

Idk, heres the way I think of it: what's your point of comparison?

This game puts out a good amount of content fairly regularly that doesn't read like it was written by someone who either speaks English as a 3rd language OR hasn't picked up a pencil since English 101.

Those qualities in and of themselves put it above like 99.9% of the games on this site. Games that stall for months at a time, announce a big rewrite and spend a year reducing the content of their game, pulling a Summertime Saga and putting out a patch every 4-5 months while promising some "big update" that slides ever further away, games that have a single dev who writes, codes and draws and is only good at one of those things...

Or even comparing it to the previous games.

CoC? With all of its dropped characters and ideas, little to no story and slapped together ending?

TiTs, in development for 8 years, took an entire year off and is getting most of its planned content cut, and also has a bevy of abandoned characters and areas?

FoE, which just died, full stop?

Idk, in the category of porn games, I can't offhand think of almost any projects near this scale that have gone anywhere near as well.

So I think they're doing a pretty decent job, all things considered.

I'm not really comparing it to anything, just making observations based on what I see. I'm not saying they're doing a horrible job, just not the best they could be doing. I also don't think we should commend them just for not being fucking horrible like 90% of western porn games. Putting out consistent and decent content when you make almost 25k a month for the project shouldn't be lauded, even if shit like summertime saga can't manage to do that.

 

[mrttao]

Why is there a second futa marefolk with an elf harem?

Because one of two things:
1. someone paid money to have their SI in the game
2. it is one of the dev's SI.

The game become a lot more understandable when you realize that almost all NPC are someone's self insert

 

[Skandranon]

If people clamor for pregshit that badly, yeah sure go ahead I guess. It was just an example of things that don't really contribute at all to forwarding the game or introduce anything special.

Everyone wants different stuff, as I mentioned in another post. Just taking this thread as an example, several people have mentioned they don't give a crap about the story. Heck, the most clamored for content in here is Brints mom and sister, two completely unimportant side NPCs that aren't particularly unique or special, just hit the right notes for a bunch of folks.

I'm not really comparing it to anything, just making observations based on what I see. I'm not saying they're doing a horrible job, just not the best they could be doing. I also don't think we should commend them just for not being fucking horrible like 90% of western porn games. Putting out consistent and decent content when you make almost 25k a month for the project shouldn't be lauded, even if shit like summertime saga can't manage to do that.

Eh, that's where we're going to have a irreconcilable difference in opinion I guess. I think it's hard to say if someone is doing well without comparisons; otherwise, we're just setting an arbitrary mark and saying they should be hitting it without any context.

Money doesn't really enter into it for me; the only thing that I think money is good for in judging things like this is quantity, not quality. And I don't think it's a controversial thing to say that quantity isn't something this game is lacking.

 

[Boardguy]

poor arona, first brienne and now lusamine...

Spoiler: Racist cow

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Fucking hell Arona. you can't bitch about Lusamine being racist when the first thing you try to do is have your way with the PC and party, having attempted raids and now you talk this shit about me cow wife? Arona would be considered a racist caricature if a good chunk of Orcs weren't like her. Plus Lusamine may not have the best opinions on orcs considering they raid her home country too.

 

[Kroenen12]

Fucking hell Arona. you can't bitch about Lusamine being racist when the first thing you try to do is have your way with the PC and party, having attempted raids and now you talk this shit about me cow wife? Arona would be considered a racist caricature if a good chunk of Orcs weren't like her. Plus Lusamine may not have the best opinions on orcs considering they raid her home country too.

Arona:"Dunno why she fuckin' hates me"
also arona:

Spoiler

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[Boardguy]

dealt with the problem folk.

Arona:"Dunno why she fuckin' hates me"
also arona:

Spoiler

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Reminder, Her camp has a slave pen when you first enter it and a lot of unnamed slaves. Slaver races talking shit to each other about slavery and walking free is weird.

 

[Daken9]

Arona:"Dunno why she fuckin' hates me"
also arona:

Spoiler

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With better direction and a bit of vision Arona could have had quite a good character arc, though. I don't know how her dom self reacts, but by the scene in the baths it's pretty clear Sub Arona is bothered by how people view her and does kind of understand where the problem lies, so in my opinion it would have been a great spot to put a variable in place and then have it trigger during the cow teacher quest.

If Arona_Talk_Bath=False (or whatever) then she gets halted, the Champion and Brienne look down on her as they do, and she stomps away like she does.

If Arona_Talk_Bath=True then maybe she plays it a bit more sympathetic, perhaps the Champion and Brienne help her out 'cause y'know the Champion did just confess their love for her and Brienne did just have a front row seat for that whole heart-to-heart, and thus she ends up being allowed into the classroom and is actually given the chance to improve relations between orcs and minos/showcase that she's not just some raping orc.

Like, i don't know, those scenes fit after eachother so well yet nothing is made to actually make them work together. And hell, maybe you could even restrict this whole thing to Sub Arona, although i don't really think Dom Arona or even her just-met self are that bad by CoC standards considering how the foxes and marefolk behave (both keeping to the pillage and rape even after their issues are solved, and both having bad endings to their name if you lose to them as opposed to Arona), but either way i think it would've been nice, pretty cool 'cause reactionary, and would have served better thematically to boot (union > division, which is really what the effort to fight Kaz is all about).