3D Software Help and Assistance. Ask Away.

[ouch2020]

The problem with trying to answer something like this is there's so many different things that can cause that kind of overlap, and it's real difficult to predict without loading the scene myself. When you turn off all geoshells, did you verify the shader on the gens object is identical to the shader on the torso region?

also in extremely RARE cases I've seen gen grafts not be able to copy over certain torso shader properties, usually stuff like dual lobe settings and you gotta set them by hand.

If you can just remove the parts of the figure you dont want shared like specific morphs, then you could upload the scene subset and we could easily take a look at it and figure what's wrong.

Thank you for your attempt at helping, and especially for keeping a good tone and not trying to insist that I must be using stuff that I am not using.

After exchanging with Dumitas (who was kind/correct enough to reply), by providing me some instructions, he confirmed my suspect from my tests that it had something to do with the surface characteristics and with the fact Iray tries to be as realistic as possible (though this is my comment, not his), and that is why the other renders where not showing the problem.

I put below his instructions and a picture that shows the before and after, because I remember I had already a similar problem in the past with another character, so it can be useful for others as well.

'the problem is because SSS Reflectance Tint.

1: Select all the character skin textures: Arms, Ears, Face, Legs, Lips, and Torso
2: Search "SSS Reflectance Tint" and set it to white. - This will make the Skin darker than it is.
3: With all those surfaces selected reduce "Translucency Weight" value until you get a result that match the product by default or one that you like.
4: Apply the genitalia and it should be working.'

My extra two cents: "SubSurface (Scatter)" is the Iray equivalent of when you look at flashlight intense enough through the tip of your finger - the fact of considering that goes to the credit of the realism of Iray.

 

[n00bi]

My extra two cents: "SubSurface (Scatter)" is the Iray equivalent of when you look at flashlight intense enough through the tip of your finger - the fact of considering that goes to the credit of the realism of Iray.

I dont like this explanation.
Its basically how light penetrates the surface of a translucent object and how it scatters inside the object.

A better explanation would be.. put a flashlight behind your ear and see how the light scatters and passes though it..
I have big clumpy fingers you you would need a damn bright flashlight to get the effect on the fingers.
I think the ears is a better example to show the effect of it.
As can be seen here on Henry.

 

[ouch2020]

[Q

I dont like this explanation.
Its basically how light penetrates the surface of a translucent object and how it scatters inside the object.

A better explanation would be.. put a flashlight behind your ear and see how the light scatters and passes though it..
I have big clumpy fingers you you would need a damn bright flashlight to get the effect on the fingers.
I think the ears is a better example to show the effect of it.
As can be seen here on Henry.

View attachment 4878757

Well, I tried to be politically correct and avoid the temptation of using anything that could seem a negative comment on people's weight, by avoid making any reference like "unless your fingers are too thick for it" :-D.

The explanation is actually perfectly correct, it just has the same potential problem as yours.

The moment it has to go through too much fat or muscle, the visible light is completely absorbed and does not go through - I agree that "thicker matter" is in general most visible on other parts and much less on places like ears, but it can happen even on hears, actually, Henry is rather skinny :-D, so he would not have problems in seeing it even with the fingers.

 

[ouch2020]

BTW just for reference on collision and such:

https://f95zone.to/threads/morph-master-matew.251532/

Anyone using this?

Yes. I think I actually bought in a sale, but is anyway the same.

Used only two or three functions, but for those it worked very well and according to the instructions - though before using it, I suggest you really read the instructions manaul, it is not very long, and gives you a good idea of what each script can do and how to use them.

Though unfortunately it is one of the n+1 utilities that I am afraid with Daz 2025 will require to buy a new product/license, if not completely disappear without replacement.

 

[n00bi]

....

Fair enough.
Yes Henry is skinny and a horny bastard

 

[ouch2020]

Yes Henry is skinny and a horny bastard

Did you open him already an account on F95 ? :-D

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Thank you for your attempt at helping, and especially for keeping a good tone and not trying to insist that I must be using stuff that I am not using.

After exchanging with Dumitas (who was kind/correct enough to reply), by providing me some instructions, he confirmed my suspect from my tests that it had something to do with the surface characteristics and with the fact Iray tries to be as realistic as possible (though this is my comment, not his), and that is why the other renders where not showing the problem.

I put below his instructions and a picture that shows the before and after, because I remember I had already a similar problem in the past with another character, so it can be useful for others as well.

'the problem is because SSS Reflectance Tint.

1: Select all the character skin textures: Arms, Ears, Face, Legs, Lips, and Torso
2: Search "SSS Reflectance Tint" and set it to white. - This will make the Skin darker than it is.
3: With all those surfaces selected reduce "Translucency Weight" value until you get a result that match the product by default or one that you like.
4: Apply the genitalia and it should be working.'

My extra two cents: "SubSurface (Scatter)" is the Iray equivalent of when you look at flashlight intense enough through the tip of your finger - the fact of considering that goes to the credit of the realism of Iray.

View attachment 4878701 View attachment 4878702

wait while im glad you got it resolved, the way he had you do it is the reverse of what id do, you dont change the rest of body to match the gen geograft, you change the gen skin to match the body.

SSS reflectance tint only shows up as a property when the translucency mode is set to "scatter-transmit" or "scatter-transmit intensity". Skins will use different combinations of translucency hues and modes to get to their end result - so the most surefire way to make sure gens match is to change gen shader to same as torso shader.

I BELIEVE but could be wrong - those modes like scatter-transmit are some of those which erroneously dont get copied over by default, at least with NGV8, I'm not familiar with stock gens.

 

[Ir0n Ma1den]

Question about SSD, I have a 500 gb ssd where I put my daz into and space is running out. I have another SSD with 1tb, how can I transfer my daz or open there a new library for my works and model?? (Same question for blender)

 

[TheDevian]

Question about SSD, I have a 500 gb ssd where I put my daz into and space is running out. I have another SSD with 1tb, how can I transfer my daz or open there a new library for my works and model?? (Same question for blender)

Right click on the Daz Studio Formats and hit Add a Base Directory.


Blender will put things wherever you tell it when you save/create them.

 

[ouch2020]

wait while im glad you got it resolved, the way he had you do it is the reverse of what id do, you dont change the rest of body to match the gen geograft, you change the gen skin to match the body.
[...]
I BELIEVE but could be wrong - those modes like scatter-transmit are some of those which erroneously dont get copied over by default, at least with NGV8, I'm not familiar with stock gens.

Actually, despite his instructions, I firs tried to do the change on the gen skin, as you are saying, because I also thought it seemed more logical and faster to change one surface to adapt to the rest, than viceversa, but it turns out his suggestion is the best, the fastest and most efficient.
Trying to do the change on the gens, I used the use the slider and then had to go value by value - I got close, but finding a value giving an exact match was a third decimal digit mess.
After ten attempts, I tried his way - it worked perfectly fine the first time, first I got the look I wanted on the rest of the skin just moving the slider on the main character with Iray preview on, kind of analog way, then just copied over.
I am pretty sure he must have more than once tried to optimise the look of some character, it is visible he has the repeated practical experience.

Though you got it wrong. I did not change the rest to look like the gens, and his instructions were not to do that, I first decided how I wanted the character to look, and then applied it to the gens - he just pointed out to me what was the parameter that was creating the problem.

Unless one wants to get some special effects, like "alien looking", "ghost", "semitransparency" or the "black characters" used by Combine (but that, I am pretty sure it was because Combine being Japanese, in Japan once the genitals are somehow masked, almost anything goes in computer games and comics), I am against playing with shaders on characters.
Objects or clothes, no problems, e.g. sometime I converted V4 stuff by also applying shaders to give the correct look under Iray, characters no - exception, the converters to convert V4 (and eventually, Genesis and Genesis 2) characters to Iray, some refer to changing materials, but I would not be surprised if in some cases is only a shader, and those I used together with some other tool, also to move some character to newer generation.

 

[ouch2020]

Question about SSD, I have a 500 gb ssd where I put my daz into and space is running out. I have another SSD with 1tb, how can I transfer my daz or open there a new library for my works and model?? (Same question for blender)

TheDevian gave you already an indication.
A more brutal way, which I used in the past, if the disk with the Daz library is not a system disk (I am against that, but if one does not have a second disk...), if you want to release the first disk for other use.
You copy all the daz stuff (starting with the root of the daz structure) to the second disk, then change the name (drive letter assignation) of the disk in Windows (control panel) - in that way, for Daz and DIM, the disk will still be the same, though in reality, it will be a different physical one.

If you only want to add up stuff in the new disk, the suggestion from TheDevian may work fine, though there are other ways, but be aware that while DAZ Studio itself uses relative paths when loading stuff (so, for it d:\daz_library\runtime is the same as e:\daz_library\runtime when loading stuff, you only need to tell it you have a library in d:\daz_library and another in e:\daz_library), DIM stores the absolute path where the asset is installed.

So, if you ever want to migrate the library, you could even just brutally copy the stuff from one disk to the other with the structure without changing drive letter, and once you tell DAZ Studio you have a new library on that disk, it will use it without problems.
You could even copy part of a directory from one disk to another, and it would still work.
But then DIM would have a problem in managing the content, it would see files as missing because it would search for them in the original absolute path.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Actually, despite his instructions, I firs tried to do the change on the gen skin, as you are saying, because I also thought it seemed more logical and faster to change one surface to adapt to the rest, than viceversa, but it turns out his suggestion is the best, the fastest and most efficient.
Trying to do the change on the gens, I used the use the slider and then had to go value by value - I got close, but finding a value giving an exact match was a third decimal digit mess.
After ten attempts, I tried his way - it worked perfectly fine the first time, first I got the look I wanted on the rest of the skin just moving the slider on the main character with Iray preview on, kind of analog way, then just copied over.
I am pretty sure he must have more than once tried to optimise the look of some character, it is visible he has the repeated practical experience.

Though you got it wrong. I did not change the rest to look like the gens, and his instructions were not to do that, I first decided how I wanted the character to look, and then applied it to the gens - he just pointed out to me what was the parameter that was creating the problem.

Unless one wants to get some special effects, like "alien looking", "ghost", "semitransparency" or the "black characters" used by Combine (but that, I am pretty sure it was because Combine being Japanese, in Japan once the genitals are somehow masked, almost anything goes in computer games and comics), I am against playing with shaders on characters.
Objects or clothes, no problems, e.g. sometime I converted V4 stuff by also applying shaders to give the correct look under Iray, characters no - exception, the converters to convert V4 (and eventually, Genesis and Genesis 2) characters to Iray, some refer to changing materials, but I would not be surprised if in some cases is only a shader, and those I used together with some other tool, also to move some character to newer generation.

use the slider? bro just type in the numbers with copy paste! I'd never try and move the sliders by hand- you just wanna copy the same values. I'm thoroughly confused by what i thought you were saying.

 

[ouch2020]

use the slider? bro just type in the numbers with copy paste! I'd never try and move the sliders by hand- you just wanna copy the same values. I'm thoroughly confused by what i thought you were saying.

Nope. The effect of the number was not the same, for whatever reason, with the original settings of that skin copied, the visible result was not the same on the gens, as visible in the previous images I put.

Yes, I can see you got confused, but anyway, go back to the words from Dumitas I put in my post.

Those instructions do not make the character become like the gens, they just basically say "change the character SSS translucency so it looks the way you like it, and then redo the whole gens thing" - for whatever reason, the original setting copied did not work well, but after I customised it, it went well, even if I copied the texture.

About numbers and sliders...
I would like if mesh grabber allowed also to input a precise numerical value and not only move around, a bit like for positioning one can both use the slider (good to see in which direction) and input the value (to have precise positioning), and I use both slider and precise number all the time for positioning, and something for some morphs I put numbers because I have an idea in mind.
But for something like the look of the skin on the whole character, I prefer the slider coupled with the Iray preview - it is not about precise value, is about liking the visual or not.
If I am copying the colour from one surface to the other, there I want the exact colour, which means the exact same values, because I expect they will look the same.

 

[n00bi]

@TheDevian gave you already an indication.
A more brutal way, which I used in the past, if the disk with the Daz library is not a system disk (I am against that, but if one does not have a second disk...), if you want to release the first disk for other use.
You copy all the daz stuff (starting with the root of the daz structure) to the second disk, then change the name (drive letter assignation) of the disk in Windows (control panel) - in that way, for Daz and DIM, the disk will still be the same, though in reality, it will be a different physical one.

If you only want to add up stuff in the new disk, the suggestion from TheDevian may work fine, though there are other ways, but be aware that while DAZ Studio itself uses relative paths when loading stuff (so, for it d:\daz_library\runtime is the same as e:\daz_library\runtime when loading stuff, you only need to tell it you have a library in d:\daz_library and another in e:\daz_library), DIM stores the absolute path where the asset is installed.

So, if you ever want to migrate the library, you could even just brutally copy the stuff from one disk to the other with the structure without changing drive letter, and once you tell DAZ Studio you have a new library on that disk, it will use it without problems.
You could even copy part of a directory from one disk to another, and it would still work.
But then DIM would have a problem in managing the content, it would see files as missing because it would search for them in the original absolute path.

You guys also forgot to add junction linking as an option.
If you have another storage/disk you only want to use for daz.
You can just copy the content from the default location.
C:\Users\%USERNAME%\Documents\DAZ 3D To your new location. example: E:\Daz3D
Then delete the directory in the default location.
After that you open cmd just run the command:
mklink /J C:\Users\%USERNAME%\Documents\DAZ 3D E:\Daz3D
Daz will now think its using the default location even tho your content is in E:\Daz3D
And you don't need to mess about adding new directory spreading out your library
It may or may not be an option for you.

 

[ouch2020]

You guys also forgot to add junction linking as an option.
If you have another storage/disk you only want to use for daz.
You can just copy the content from the default location.
C:\Users\%USERNAME%\Documents\DAZ 3D To your new location. example: E:\Daz3D
Then delete the directory in the default location.
After that you open cmd just run the command:
mklink /J C:\Users\%USERNAME%\Documents\DAZ 3D E:\Daz3D
Daz will now think its using the default location even tho your content is in E:\Daz3D
And you don't need to mess about adding new directory spreading out your library
It may or may not be an option for you.

The effect is similar to the one of moving over and then changing the letter, "junction linking" is actually the "symbolic linking" of unix and linux brought to Windows.
I prefer to avoid that kind of operation because I am used that under windows is less well implemented and changing the assigned letter is at a lower level, so works even if using anything that may bypass the link, but it's true I have not tried in Windows 10 or Windows 11, it the kind of stuff I used in the past on specific occasions under Windows server OS.

But be careful in trying to give detailed instructions, your instructions assume that the daz library path is the default one, our instructions do not, that is why do not go in that level of detail and keep at a more high level approach.

If you want to give step by step and exact command line, you should generalise your instructions writing something like "mklink /j absolute_path_to_your_actual_daz_library new_library_path_on_another_disk".

 

[n00bi]

The effect is similar to the one of moving over and then changing the letter, "junction linking" is actually the "symbolic linking" of unix and linux brought to Windows.

I dont know unix/linux well enough to talk about its linking.
but on windows there is a technical difference between a junction link ( mklink /J) and a symbolic link ( mklink /D)

A junction works as long as the target folder itself "(new_parth)" is not moved.
A symbolic link (/D) breaks if the full path (including parent folders) changes. basically if something changes it breaks.

And junction links have better compatibility with Windows and applications.
Some software and tools (especially older ones) treat symbolic links as shortcuts but treat junctions as real folders.
Junctions should not require special permissions (Admin mode is often needed for symbolic links).
There is actually 3 main types of linking on windows. /D symbolic link, /J junction link, /H Hard link
All have their own pros and cons.

Yes my example i do assume you're using the default location.
therefor it may or may not be an option for you.

 

[ouch2020]

I dont know unix/linux well enough to talk about its linking.
but on windows there is a technical difference between a junction link ( mklink /J) and a symbolic link ( mklink /D)

A junction works as long as the target folder itself "(new_parth)" is not moved.
A symbolic link (/D) breaks if the full path (including parent folders) changes. basically if something changes it breaks.

And junction links have better compatibility with Windows and applications.
Some software and tools (especially older ones) treat symbolic links as shortcuts but treat junctions as real folders.
Junctions should not require special permissions (Admin mode is often needed for symbolic links).
There is actually 3 main types of linking on windows. /D symbolic link, /J junction link, /H Hard link
All have their own pros and cons.

Actually, that creates a potential terminology confusion.

I have been both a Windows admin and a Unix and Linux admin, that is why I know that those things, as well as the way Powershell does some stuff, come from *nix (well, also because it was admitted by the Microsoft people themselves , including the lead of the team that created powershell).

But you reply also tells you why I personally don't like to use that kind of stuff - the "breaking with moving the paths" part - at that point, I prefer using folders as "mouting points" (which in reality are possible even in Windows server since some versions ago, honestly I am not sure anymore about the client OS, I remember vaguely Windows 10, thus I would expect 11, also would do it, but I am not sure I ever used it) .
In that, linking on *nix seems more resistant (hence my reference to potential terminology confusion).

Yes my example i do assume you're using the default location.
therefor it may or may not be an option for you.

D
Well, any additional and updated bit of information can be useful, but actually, it was not at all for me, I don't need it for DAZ - but I am not the only person in this forum or the World, maybe our exchange can be useful for others as well.

I was suggesting it, because I have already seen in the past the problem when people give instructions without thinking about the situation of the one that has to run them, and/or without abstracing from their own situation.
My job in the past, even recent, has been also both giving instructions, and (try to) recover the mess when someone followed instructions without having the elements to adapt them.

"My way" works perfectly fine for me, I have two NVME disks, each with more than one library path, so I can separate stuff installed using DIM, stuff installed manually, and stuff installed or created with other utilities or e.g. when converting items between generations.
By using the hard drive letter mapping and just telling Daz the various directories, means I can even have more than one computer with Daz installed at different locations, without need to get extra disks and duplicate the library.
I just make sure the Daz files and database are updated on both side (well, may need also to copy the user config directories if I changed something), move the disks between the machines making sure the drive letters are the same on both, then both DIM and Daz works fine.
Till when Daz does continue to work the way it works and the postgresql versions are the same, once it is installed, brutally copying over (or better, deleting and copying over) works fine.
Actually, even if the postgresql versions were different, it could still be possible to do a backup of the database, at "worst" in sql format, and restore it in the other machine, it even comes directly with pgadmin included.
Or since already from some versions DAZ comes as setup and not a DIM package, the "update over previous installation" is also a possibility.
What is the exact best scenario depends also on the plugins installed, I have done more than one variant.

The only time I got screwed up was once at the start that I did an upgrade without doing the backup first, naively thinking one could do a rollback - learnt by my own mistake not to trust Daz (and their support, after some interactions) on certain aspects ;-)

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Why is any of that neccesary since the whole daz library uses relative filepaths??!?!

I have a new 4TB in mail, and ive every intention of just reinstall daz on that drive, after dropping the entire props/people/data/runtime etc folders in a new location.

 

[n00bi]

t, linking on *nix seems more resistant (hence my reference to potential terminology confusion).

That might have been true in the past. like win3.11 and propaganda spread by nix folks when using fat.
Both Os'es and and their filesystems (ext & ntfs) supports a wide variety of linking methods.
As they are different systems, cant do a direct apples to apples comparison.
Win/Ntfs has features nix/ext fs doesn't support. like Reprase points.
And nix/ext fs has features win/ntfs doesn't support like true mount points. can be mimicked tho.

lets not talk about powershell. its an abomination ;D

Why is any of that neccesary since the whole daz library uses relative filepaths??!?!

You may come over a situation where you installed daz on C:\
And now your C:\ is getting full.
So you can simply move the content over to new disk and let daz still think its using the default location.
And you free up space for other stuff.

OR use one of the other methods described by the others.
Its just an alternative method that works fine (If you know what you are doing). i am doing it myself with daz.
and for all my AI models for ollama among other stuff with no problems.

Lets say in the future if you plan on doing a reinstall to get a fresh OS install.
Having daz previously installed on a another disk will still require you to reinstall it.
Cos you will be missing registry entry's etc etc.
I bet my ass you need to reinstall it, cos i doubt its made as a portable distribution.
And if you now reinstall it at the same location you had before. god knows what crap daz will do to your existing content

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

That might have been true in the past. like win3.11 and propaganda spread by nix folks when using fat.
Both Os'es and and their filesystems (ext & ntfs) supports a wide variety of linking methods.
As they are different systems, cant do a direct apples to apples comparison.
Win/Ntfs has features nix/ext fs doesn't support. like Reprase points.
And nix/ext fs has features win/ntfs doesn't support like true mount points. can be mimicked tho.

lets not talk about powershell. its an abomination ;D



You may come over a situation where you installed daz on C:\
And now your C:\ is getting full.
So you can simply move the content over to new disk and let daz still think its using the default location.
And you free up space for other stuff.

no i mean this is my exact situation, right now its installed on system drive, and its full.

but im just gonna reinstall daz on D:\ and prior to deleting old one move all the asset folders to a neutral location then copy them to new place. The installation has registry entries, but the actual asset library are all relative paths like /data/daz3d etc