RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.5.9.7 Test] [Chyos]

[Evangelion-01]

I am sorry, but you expect me to believe the tribe living in the woods does not know how to gather clay and use it? I think that just by looking at their village you can see that that is just plain wrong.

...uhm yes I do believe so... there is no stone building and they don't use plastering on their building... it's just wood, ropes and hay

And again, you can do it with pretty much every resource in the game, clay being the difference for no reason.

...yeah except with the resources you can't... which is unsurprisngly among ther rarer ones.
Stone, Clay and Iron are the only farmable resources you can't just buy.
Fog fineds entrails and brains are the hardest as they are ONLY random drops from monster encounters

I have had similar conversation with diehard fans with multiple games. You go to such ridiculous lengths to justify design oversights... from a certain point it becomes just funny. Recently I had a dude tell me that the bad responsiveness of units in new total war warhammer 3 was definitely a design choice, because commanding troups should be not so easy.... lol.

Yeah I had several such discussions with people who find themself stumped because they have to put an effort in collecting materials in order to craft something significant, calling it an oversight or bad gameplay, when in reality it was just not THEIR gameplay.
You don't enjoy resource gathering I have understood that much, me on the other side I like it.
The game is encouraging resource gathering by offering frequent Quests that require large numbers of them and each time someone complains cause they didn't have the required resources on hand and had no intention to spend time on aquiring them.

 

[Kulman]

...uhm yes I do believe so... there is no stone building and they don't use plastering on their building... it's just wood, ropes and hay

...yeah except with the resources you can't... which is unsurprisngly among ther rarer ones.
Stone, Clay and Iron are the only farmable resources you can't just buy.
Fog fineds entrails and brains are the hardest as they are ONLY random drops from monster encounters

Yeah I had several such discussions with people who find themself stumped because they have to put an effort in collecting materials in order to craft something significant, calling it an oversight or bad gameplay, when in reality it was just not THEIR gameplay.
You don't enjoy resource gathering I have understood that much, me on the other side I like it.
The game is encouraging resource gathering by offering frequent Quests that require large numbers of them and each time someone complains cause they didn't have the required resources on hand and had no intention to spend time on aquiring them.

I am done with you dude. Sure if you needed 30 fiend entrails, it would be an issue. The natives are utilising copper, but clay is just too hard I guess? You also "gathered" squat, I like resource gathering. I dont like gathering resource that spawns randomly with very small increments.

Lets for a second say that they do not know how to gather clay. I am their chieftain, what I say goes, there is no reasonable explanation other than: dev just did not implement it. Yet you are here trying to justify it with twisted logic.

I have farmed my whole game, why do you think I have issue now? Clay just plain sucks.

Fanboys will be fanboys.

 

[Evangelion-01]

I am done with you dude. Sure if you needed 30 fiend entrails, it would be an issue. The natives are utilising copper, but clay is just too hard I guess? You also "gathered" squat, I like resource gathering. I dont like gathering resource that spawns randomly with very small increments.

Lets for a second say that they do not know how to gather clay. I am their chieftain, what I say goes, there is no reasonable explanation other than: dev just did not implement it. Yet you are here trying to justify it with twisted logic.

I have farmed my whole game, why do you think I have issue now? Clay just plain sucks.

Fanboys will be fanboys.

...you DO realise that everything you say is a personal opinion (same as me btw)...right?
You say the Dev should just do this or that to reduce your grind.
The Dev didn't include these mechanics though.. why is that? Maybe because he WANTS the Players to grind abit to achieve things?
The game keeps sending you all over the places to do stuff, it's extremly easy to just pick up stuff on the way and hoard them until you need them.
In games with extensive crafting systems it is guaranteed that you'll need them sooner or later.
If you think it's easy to implement there is always the Option to create a mod for yourself that includes such an Option.

 

[Nellyg]

Did I miss something or is clay such a bother to collect? You have to search for days and find 1-3 from time to time. I need 60 to renovate the house.
Is there some faster way? The cheatbook does not offer clay to get and my rpgmaker saveeditor does not work on the game.

This is just needlessly tedious.

Every time I went near water the game was giving me clay...that I didn't need so I ignored it. Then suddenly I needed it and would the damn stuff spawn.. rarely.
Saveeditonline works, that's how I got it

 

[Kulman]

...you DO realise that everything you say is a personal opinion (same as me btw)...right?
You say the Dev should just do this or that to reduce your grind.
The Dev didn't include these mechanics though.. why is that? Maybe because he WANTS the Players to grind abit to achieve things?
The game keeps sending you all over the places to do stuff, it's extremly easy to just pick up stuff on the way and hoard them until you need them.
In games with extensive crafting systems it is guaranteed that you'll need them sooner or later.
If you think it's easy to implement there is always the Option to create a mod for yourself that includes such an Option.

The fact that villagers are able to gather clay if you told them to is not personal opinion. Its a fact based on simple logic. You arguing otherwise does not make any sense.

And yeah, it is not in the game, maybe the dev wants it that way, who knows? Or maybe dev knows that this is a hassle, so he implemented more and more ways to get stuff, which makes sense. Like villagers gathering, miners mercenaries etc. Overall the trend of the game is for you to be above your henchmen that do the menial tasks you did at the beginning for you.

As you can see from the comments, I am not the only one. Yet I still have to see someone jumping out to say how much they love their clay gathering. I would not be surprised if dev adds more ways to procure it in the following patches, as it stands it just sucks.

And as for personal opinions... I hate it, other people hate it. Sometimes personal opinion is all you need to know a feature is bad. You are supposed to enjoy games. If you have a feature people are grinding their teeth over, maybe that feature sucks.

 

[Kulman]

Every time I went near water the game was giving me clay...that I didn't need so I ignored it. Then suddenly I needed it and would the damn stuff spawn.. rarely.
Saveeditonline works, that's how I got it

Thanks for the tip. Yeah I think it has a respawn timer. That is why if you look for it, the spots get cleaned out very swiftly.

 

[Evangelion-01]

And as for personal opinions... I hate it, other people hate it. Sometimes personal opinion is all you need to know a feature is bad. You are supposed to enjoy games. If you have a feature people are grinding their teeth over, maybe that feature sucks.

I must have missed any of those comments than, because so far you are the only one I see complaining.
On the other hand I have seen many people enjoying the game the way it is, including the sometimes tedious tasks of gathering a large ammount of resources for a certain Quest or crafting.

Thanks for the tip. Yeah I think it has a respawn timer. That is why if you look for it, the spots get cleaned out very swiftly.

Same as any resource spot you can find new ones every 5 ingame days

 

[Kulman]

I must have missed any of those comments than, because so far you are the only one I see complaining.
On the other hand I have seen many people enjoying the game the way it is, including the sometimes tedious tasks of gathering a large ammount of resources for a certain Quest or crafting.

Same as any resource spot you can find new ones every 5 ingame days

2 people mentioned it is a hassle just during our conversation, it may not be many but... also found some old comments saying the drop rate is too low. And that was when you needed it only for emily.

I guess most people are more successful with cheating their way out of this.

Also considering you need clay for the new quests, not many people may have hit the wall yet, or they are just veterans who already collected enough by playing the game over and over.

 

[Evangelion-01]

2 people mentioned it is a hassle just during our conversation, it may not be many but... also found some old comments saying the drop rate is too low. And that was when you needed it only for emily.

I guess most people are more successful with cheating their way out of this.

Also considering you need clay for the new quests, not many people may have hit the wall yet, or they are just veterans who already collected enough by playing the game over and over.

I'd rather assume that the majority of people playing the game are fine with the way things are... those that can't stand the grind Cheat to advance, for some that ammounts to any grind while others have a higher tollerance.

Most active members on the Thread and Players have proven to be Uptodate with releases so it safe to assume that they also concluded the stuff introduced by this Update at this point.

So far the only REAL complaint I have seen is about Johns Quest for forging iron swords and the low drop rate of iron ore in the mine.
You can only smelt enough ore for one sword every second day based on the free iron John receives and you can at best retrieve 12-18 iron ore every 5 days yourself... given the high number or iron ore required to craft a complete set of Iron Weapons and Armors you are forced to keep going back for several month mining iron.

 

[Clown.34]

rpgmaker saveeditor does not work on the game.

saveeditor works on the gmae

 

[Kulman]

saveeditor works on the gmae

It keeps giving me errors when I try to access the items tab. No idea why, maybe my version is too old.

 

[Adoringfan]

Did I miss something or is clay such a bother to collect? You have to search for days and find 1-3 from time to time. I need 60 to renovate the house.
Is there some faster way? The cheatbook does not offer clay to get and my rpgmaker saveeditor does not work on the game.

This is just needlessly tedious.

My only advice on clay is pick it up every single time you see it. I was low on energy running around the swamp and ignored like 6-7 deposits that showed up and now I am stuck waiting for whatever internal cooldown clay spawns have to show up again to upgrade the mc's house.

 

[Clown.34]

It keeps giving me errors when I try to access the items tab. No idea why, maybe my version is too old.

If u want i can take a look at ur save

 

[Kulman]

If u want i can take a look at ur save

Thanks! But I already used the saveeditonline and it worked.

 

[mrttao]

Ah right, mine and at least 3 others complaints are not real because... you said so?

You are beyond saving.

Make it 4 others. I also agree with Kulman on that one.
No reason you couldn't just buy it or order your minions to collect it. It is a design oversight rather than a "feature"

 

[Kunju]

In Tia mission i couldn't find this option : On „how she gets by“ Disagree with her

 

[mercytea]

Wow... There must be some soul in these words and scenes! I'm touched!

 

[Evangelion-01]

Make it 4 others. I also agree with Kulman on that one.
No reason you couldn't just buy it or order your minions to collect it. It is a design oversight rather than a "feature"

...let's be diplomatic on this once more... let's call it a missing feature instead.
I don't see a real gain for the Player aside of a way to reduce the world exploration with resource gathering with such a feature, but fair enough if its an optional choice
How would you implement a resource trader in Arenfield at this point though?
there isn't a large clay excavationsite or mason and the iron mine is hardly produceing anything (remember John gets 50% of it's yield and that's 4 iron ore a day if I remember correctly).
Maybe there would be a chance for that in Kirlic as an actual city made of stone there is bound to be someone selling construction materials

 

[mrttao]

...let's be diplomatic on this once more... let's call it a missing feature instead.
I don't see a real gain for the Player aside of a way to reduce the world exploration with resource gathering with such a feature, but fair enough if its an optional choice
How would you implement a resource trader in Arenfield at this point though?
there isn't a large clay excavationsite or mason and the iron mine is hardly produceing anything (remember John gets 50% of it's yield and that's 4 iron ore a day if I remember correctly).
Maybe there would be a chance for that in Kirlic as an actual city made of stone there is bound to be someone selling construction materials

I am fine with calling it missing feature.
As for a lore friendly ideas on how to implement it:
1. task villagers to harvest some
2. traveling merchant that visits occasionally.
3. the general store could stock things. after all he does import stuff from out of town (via the weekly deliveries he gets)
4. an army logistics officer which can help ensure you get the goods necessary for the war effort (you are both a merc captain, responsible for the iron mine, and have a thing with the smithy producing weapons and armor)
5. your suggestion of Kirlic works too.

 

[Nellyg]

...let's be diplomatic on this once more... let's call it a missing feature instead.
I don't see a real gain for the Player aside of a way to reduce the world exploration with resource gathering with such a feature, but fair enough if its an optional choice
How would you implement a resource trader in Arenfield at this point though?
there isn't a large clay excavationsite or mason and the iron mine is hardly produceing anything (remember John gets 50% of it's yield and that's 4 iron ore a day if I remember correctly).
Maybe there would be a chance for that in Kirlic as an actual city made of stone there is bound to be someone selling construction materials

I may be wrong but the clay seems to spawn the way herbs and the star pickups do. When I needed it, after a week playtime and trying all the riverbanks (I didn't think of the swamp) I only had 22 clay and I had waited to see if it would respawn. After the discussion started this morning I decided to pick up clay as I was checking the traps and in 3 days playtime I now have 57.
Maybe I was just unlucky or the game is picking on me. Either way I'm not really complaining, yes it's a pain but it's also RPG and I'm a hardened RPG player